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Later army detection / equipment caps

Other98OfEmpire (INT4)Other98OfEmpire (INT4) INT4 Posts: 222
edited 23.04.2019 in General Discussions

I did a test and found out for sure that it doesn't go above 90% with hero bonus, so it's capped at 90%.

What I mean exactly is.. Having a commander which has 90% later army detection without a hero and then adding a hero which has 15% later army detection won't make it 105%, it stays at 90%.

I didn't test if same applies for gems but 99% that it does.

It would be nice from GGs to tell us what's capped and what's not, so we don't waste time and resources finding it out ourselves.

Post edited by Other98OfEmpire (INT4) on
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Comments

  • WillyWiz (NL1)WillyWiz (NL1) NL1 Posts: 1,139
    edited 20.04.2019

    They do not know it anymore themselves as well. There were several requests for clarification about all these confusing stats and we never received a complete and correct answer. It is a complete mess. It is also about looting bonuses, travel speed and cost bonuses, etc.

  • Well, we will be persistent :)

  • Other98OfEmpire (INT4)Other98OfEmpire (INT4) INT4 Posts: 222
    edited 22.04.2019

    Another thing is the master summoner which has 20% extra melee and range so it goes above 90% and it works but we can't find and read that anywhere??

    When I do the same with the foreign set and get bonus of 60% speed it's capped at 80% but for Master summoner the melee and range bonuses go above, same for the ss castellan and winged / eagle.

    Give us a list where we can read what's not capped and what is...

    For the first example which I wrote when the hero adds 15% more later army detection I can't read anywhere that it's capped. So give us a list so we can play with some equipment combos...

    In short I can say that your current commander / castellan overview stats are broken and not accurate, you are confusing many, especially low level players!

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345

    Another thing is the master summoner which has 20% extra melee and range so it goes above 90% and it works but we can't find and read that anywhere??

    When I do the same with the foreign set and get bonus of 60% speed it's capped at 80% but for Master summoner the melee and range bonuses go above, same for the ss castellan and winged / eagle.

    Give us a list where we can read what's not capped and what is...

    For the first example which I wrote when the hero adds 15% more later army detection I can't read anywhere that it's capped. So give us a list so we can play with some equipment combos...

    In short I can say that your current commander / castellan overview stats are broken and not accurate, you are confusing many, especially low level players!

    There was a list of stats posted in another discussion on the same topic not too long ago. A hero will not exceed the cap UNLESS the wording of a particular stat is different than the original wording. 

    I will use an example of my own castellan. I have a winged knight with 2 kala tongue, a fly eye, and an eagle eye. That gem combo gives me +55% troops on the wall. If I use the woodland nymph, the stats meets the +60% cap on troops on the wall because the wording of the hero is exactly as the gems. If I use the Winged Knight hero, even though I use all 6 pieces of the set (giving me +55% from gems & +10% from the set & +6% from the hero) only the +6% from the hero itself exceeds the cap because it states "when defending against enemy castle lords". If I use a double stat wall hero with +22% troops on wall of the main castle, it exceeds the cap (+55% from gems & +22% from hero with different wording).

    Does that help? I can break it down mathematically if you'd like too. But the same rules apply to other stats of either castellan or commander. 
  • Thanks.

    However, what about the eagles eye then, it gives 17% melee same wording as usual 90% melee stats on castellan but it does exceed the cap? I know that it does because I tested it.

  • HadrianHadrian Posts: 445

    It's always been capped as stated in the past in announcements and in discussions. Please feel free to type those words to find past discussions on it and it will explain it.

  • Other98OfEmpire (INT4)Other98OfEmpire (INT4) INT4 Posts: 222
    edited 23.04.2019

    Same for wall protection, 120% +40% same wording but not capped.

  • Alright, I found this and now know why the later army detection bonus from hero is capped. I lost much time, shouldn't this be available to everyone without doing a 2 hours search??

    Besides that I have read that equipment together with gems are capped but the eagles eye gem does not seem to be capped, it gives extra 17% melee and it works besides the 90% melee, I know it because I tested it.

    I want to know why does it work, it's not a hero bonus and it has same wording as the equipment bonus? What else is there we don't know?

  • jagerboom (US2)jagerboom (US2) US2 Posts: 213

    How can u test 17% mellee strength on a cast? The caps were put in place because of the elemental gems. They didn't want anyone building a high melee or high ranged cast. The shapeshifter equipment goes over the 90/90 cap because it is troop strength.

  • Other98OfEmpire (INT4)Other98OfEmpire (INT4) INT4 Posts: 222
    edited 23.04.2019

    Well we used a castellan with extra 17% melee and one without. From the attackers side zeroed the moat and wall of the defender used same commander in both scenarios and same army and number of army. Posting results down...

    Results WITHOUT extra 17% melee


    Results WITH extra 17% melee

    As you can see losses are smaller on the castellan with 17% extra melee power even though there were less soldiers on wall...

    Edit: just to mention the battle took place on the wall, not in courtyard. If it isn't obvious.

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345

    Well we used a castellan with extra 17% melee and one without. From the attackers side zeroed the moat and wall of the defender used same commander in both scenarios and same army and number of army. Posting results down... 

    As you can see losses are smaller on the castellan with 17% extra melee power even though there were less soldiers on wall...

    Edit: just to mention the battle took place on the wall, not in courtyard. If it isn't obvious.

    Based on your screenshots, the castellan with more troops on the wall was the one with the +17%, not the other way around. So using your battle reports, the +17% on melee didn't exceed the cap, as it's not intended too.
  • Other98OfEmpire (INT4)Other98OfEmpire (INT4) INT4 Posts: 222
    edited 23.04.2019

    Sorry? @Black Rose

    Please check the post again. If the castellan with more troops on wall was the 17% extra melee how do you explain the higher losses?

    What i mean is, if the power doesn't apply how comes more troops on wall have higher losses?

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345

    Sorry? @Black Rose

    Please check the post again. If the castellan with more troops on wall was the 17% extra melee how do you explain the higher losses?

    What i mean is, if the power doesn't apply how comes more troops on wall have higher losses?

    If the +17% stacked, you would have less losses, not more as you cannot negate melee troops. The losses on both battle reports have close to the same percent in losses though. Both reports show roughly ~20-22% losses. The number will not be the exact same as the attack waves kill a different amount of defenders because the number of defenders on the wall are different. 
  • You are wrong.

    Let's get the 17% melee out of the way for now. Considering both castellans are now 90%/90% melee range with no wall and moat bonus because they were zeroed. Theere is no way that more soldiers on wall can have more losses, because both attacks are exactly the same!

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345

    You are wrong.

    Let's get the 17% melee out of the way for now. Considering both castellans are now 90%/90% melee range with no wall and moat bonus because they were zeroed. Theere is no way that more soldiers on wall can have more losses, because both attacks are exactly the same!

    I said the percent of losses are roughly the same, meaning that the +17% melee does not stack. If the +17% played a role in the battle, the losses would have been less, or a smaller percentage. 


  • Seems like I will have to do another test with exactly the same troops on wall to convince you 😬

    The test above was 5 months ago, hope nothing changed meanwhile.

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345

    Seems like I will have to do another test with exactly the same troops on wall to convince you 😬

    The test above was 5 months ago, hope nothing changed meanwhile.

    I understand what point you're trying to make, how can more troops mean more losses if the battle is the same? I do not have access to how GG calculates the exact battle, but if you'll look at PvP battle reports, and look at the defenders lost, it'll be roughly the same percent through all troop type. 
    And while I can't give you an exact answer of how battles are calculated, you did provide proof of the melee stats not stacking. 
  • jagerboom (US2)jagerboom (US2) US2 Posts: 213

    More troops u should have less losses as the total troop strength per wave would be higher. That is interesting to see 2 identical reports to prove this is another false stat cap. Should just eliminate caps and let us build what we can put together. Anything that is over powering would be weak in another area.

  • WillardvB (NL1)WillardvB (NL1) NL1 Posts: 141
    image     
    Where can I find this on the forum?
  • Ivan Again (INT4)Ivan Again (INT4) INT4 Posts: 1,379
    Hadrian said:

    It's always been capped as stated in the past in announcements and in discussions. Please feel free to type those words to find past discussions on it and it will explain it.

    No @Hadrian , that's not what we have been told previously. We were told heroes are not constrained by the cap. 
  • Ivan Again (INT4)Ivan Again (INT4) INT4 Posts: 1,379

    Another thing is the master summoner which has 20% extra melee and range so it goes above 90% and it works but we can't find and read that anywhere??

    When I do the same with the foreign set and get bonus of 60% speed it's capped at 80% but for Master summoner the melee and range bonuses go above, same for the ss castellan and winged / eagle.

    Give us a list where we can read what's not capped and what is...

    For the first example which I wrote when the hero adds 15% more later army detection I can't read anywhere that it's capped. So give us a list so we can play with some equipment combos...

    In short I can say that your current commander / castellan overview stats are broken and not accurate, you are confusing many, especially low level players!

    There is a post here on the Forum somewhere that explains that set effects (like the +20% malee/range for Master Summoner) are not constrained by the cap if they are worded differently. ie if it says "against castle lords" or "against NPC" etc.
  • Ivan Again (INT4)Ivan Again (INT4) INT4 Posts: 1,379
    We were told long ago that they were working on an improved way to show comm and cast stats. We're still waiting.
  • Yeah, I have read all that and i do understand now how it works. And yes more than a year ago they said they are working on it to improve the text. However, it is not that bad now once you understand how it works, and that's the problem it wasn't easy to find all that info but maybe it's good that way, only us who search for it should know 😁

    I'm still confused about the 17% melee. It seems to apply only if you have 17% melee, if you have 34% extra melee you have samw losses as with 17% melee, however without the 17% melee the losses are a bit higher.

  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345
    I have requested updated information regarding caps, and heroes, to help prevent anymore miscommunication on them. I will post it as soon as I get it. 
  • Ivan Again (INT4)Ivan Again (INT4) INT4 Posts: 1,379
    Perhaps they won't release new information on caps until after Relic equipment has been introduced to the game (announced in Q1 update). It seems Relic equipment will have new caps (eg +120% melee/ranged instead of the current +90%). At least that's what the Test Server of the PC version is currently showing. 



  • Black RoseBlack Rose Posts: 345
    Perhaps they won't release new information on caps until after Relic equipment has been introduced to the game (announced in Q1 update). It seems Relic equipment will have new caps (eg +120% melee/ranged instead of the current +90%). At least that's what the Test Server of the PC version is currently showing. 



    Relic equipment will work a little bit differently than the equipment that we have now. The caps on stats of regular equipment should not change because of them. I'm still waiting for that information, that I mentioned. Thank you for your patience. 
  • Rise Up (US2)Rise Up (US2) US2 Posts: 44
    Equipment attributes can be specific or general.  

    A specific attribute will say something like ‘against enemy lords’ or ‘at main castles’ in the description.  A specific attribute, including gems and hero value have no cap.

    General attributes will just say ‘wall protection or ‘unit limit on castle wall’   General attributes are subject to caps that are published.   General attributes on a hero go over cap. Gems do not.

    APART from unit limit on castle wall.  There is no way to get this over 60 without using specific unit limit pieces...

    per Ron. This is not from any moderator or good game post.  But nobody has yet been able to disprove this on my server.  And I totally agree the way equipment stats are displayed are terrible.  just look at the new shifter casts.
  • Ivan Again (INT4)Ivan Again (INT4) INT4 Posts: 1,379
    Equipment attributes can be specific or general.  

    A specific attribute will say something like ‘against enemy lords’ or ‘at main castles’ in the description.  A specific attribute, including gems and hero value have no cap.

    General attributes will just say ‘wall protection or ‘unit limit on castle wall’   General attributes are subject to caps that are published.   General attributes on a hero go over cap. Gems do not.

    APART from unit limit on castle wall.  There is no way to get this over 60 without using specific unit limit pieces...

    per Ron. This is not from any moderator or good game post.  But nobody has yet been able to disprove this on my server.  And I totally agree the way equipment stats are displayed are terrible.  just look at the new shifter casts.
    Thanks Ron. A clear explanation.

    But I've seen another general attribute on a hero constrained by the cap (honour points). And people on Forum have posted about some other hero attributes that are constrained by caps. 
  • I did a test with 90% later army detection commander + 30% from research against a castle with 10% early attack warning from watchtower no early attack warning on castellan and no research. The target just received the battle report, without horn 😁😂

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