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This game is on self destruct

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Comments

  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,442
    also no way i believe the 100 spend more than the 9k players unless there millonaires
    You don't have to believe it but it's the way it is, the same reason why so much wealth gets into so few hands, think of people like Bill Gates and Elon Musk.

    The Pareto principle says that the square root of .... makes up 50% of .... 
    This could be paying customers and how much money they spend combined, or music artists and how many streams they get. This principle holds in all of those cases.

    Let's say 10.000 people visit the library each year, 100 of them lend half of the books. I know it sounds crazy but it's just the way it is....
  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,442
    Do yourselves a favour, and don't be diverted with so called principle, and sayings, which mean squat in the real world and are just some people vague imaginings to explain away what is going on.
    Justs like a while ago when when anyone wrote to support about the algorithm GGE was using in evrything related to chances, what was the excuse ' learn about the gamblers falacy'. Poo Paad, as soon as they realised they had brought in permutations, and circumstances that would not be found using the gamblers falacy, which is mainly reserved for registered and regulated games of chance.
    Do yourself a favor and do some research first. The Pareto principle is a real thing and it applies to everything in the universe. Amount of stars and their mass, the square root of the number of stars in the universe make up for half the mass of all these stars combined.

    You just can't argue these facts.

    Now please keep in mind I am not defending any actions taken by the studio, but you can't just say principles like these mean squat in the real world... I too dislike a few of the recent changes, but that doesn't change the Pareto principle.
  • Sorry Poeseidon,   Perato theory only holds water if we are all using the same currency.  If the top "spenders"  are using cheap currencies,  then the real funds are coming from Joe Normal who pays with £sterling currency.  Make or allow Joe Normal's game to be wrecked with cheats and malicious play so that he no longer spends/plays,  and you have lost your player base.  Several of us know who these cheap currency players are  -  they have had previous accounts banned for chargebacks -  so gge makes very little from the at the end of the day.

    FabulousDulcie
    Proud leader of Phoenix Rises  (En 1)
  • BM_DaishoBM_Daisho Moderator Posts: 192
    edited 07.09.2021
    Sorry Poeseidon,   Perato theory only holds water if we are all using the same currency.  If the top "spenders"  are using cheap currencies,  then the real funds are coming from Joe Normal who pays with £sterling currency.  Make or allow Joe Normal's game to be wrecked with cheats and malicious play so that he no longer spends/plays,  and you have lost your player base.  Several of us know who these cheap currency players are  -  they have had previous accounts banned for chargebacks -  so gge makes very little from the at the end of the day.

    Proxy accounts are something I have tried to communicate across with GGS and I have had some success but overall it is hard to get these accounts punished due to the ways that these accounts operate. GGS know how they work and how to catch them but doing so is easier said than done due to the players on the accounts being very smart at hiding the true identity of the player on the account and sadly GGS cannot do anything without proof even though it can be quite blatant that they are cheating. 

    Another thing I would like to touch on is that just because they use a proxy account does not mean they spend less. Many proxy players fall into the trap of buying more when they have a cheap currency, which counteracts the "cheapness". They may (for example) buy in-game items for 1/3 of the price, but end up buying 3x (if not more) as much as they would normally ending up in usually them over-spending. This does however result in them getting 3x as much in-game items. 

    I haven't been directly effected by proxy accounts, but I know how they work and how much damage they can do, and from what I hear from GB1 it has pretty much decimated the server. I will try and bring it up again and see if any developments have come with dealing with such accounts.

  • Pisky (GB1)Pisky (GB1) GB1 Posts: 494
    But as I believe Poseidon said, its still commiting fraud, so is GGE for or against fraud, sounds like your trying to find a way to condone it.
    Other information is that because of the state of the GB server many of the culprits, have put GB accounts, and shells into hibernation, and they are now doing the same on some of the other servers. If GGE don't act then those servers will soon be the same as GB. Where do you think many CG players went on holiday!
  • skel (GB1)skel (GB1) GB1 Posts: 22
    I dont believe in this day and age it is that difficult to stop a proxy account, I do however believe there is a lack of want from GGS to even attempt to do anything about it. 

    So until we see something other than complete silence from them on the matter, myself and many others will be voting with our feet (and our wallets).
    skel @ en 1
  • gge have had a lot of tickets with proof of multi-accounting.  GGE own the accounts -  they can ban one even if they only suspect it of being a multi  -  with the proof they have received over the last couple of years half these multies at least should have been banned.  Why should the multies get the "benefit of the doubt" when normal players are sometimes blocked from the game and have to produce passport id verification  ??   GGE need to have the balls they expect some their players to have,  and deal with a problem, specially on EN1  that is breaking the game and making it unplayable for normal players.  An empty server will earn them  nothing,  zero wonga,  nowt.

    or perhaps the proxies will play with the proxies and still spend as much   ??
    FabulousDulcie
    Proud leader of Phoenix Rises  (En 1)
  • BM_DaishoBM_Daisho Moderator Posts: 192
    But as I believe Poseidon said, its still commiting fraud, so is GGE for or against fraud, sounds like your trying to find a way to condone it.
    Other information is that because of the state of the GB server many of the culprits, have put GB accounts, and shells into hibernation, and they are now doing the same on some of the other servers. If GGE don't act then those servers will soon be the same as GB. Where do you think many CG players went on holiday!
    Annoyingly we live in a world where you're innocent until proven guilty so GGS cannot do anything unless they can get the required proof. So unless GGS find the needed evidence then unfortunately nothing can be done.
  • BM_DaishoBM_Daisho Moderator Posts: 192
    I dont believe in this day and age it is that difficult to stop a proxy account, I do however believe there is a lack of want from GGS to even attempt to do anything about it. 

    So until we see something other than complete silence from them on the matter, myself and many others will be voting with our feet (and our wallets).
    I have had specific accounts investigated (names of suspected cheaters handed to the payment team and customer support at GGS) and although I have re-iterated and emphasised this issue it is hard to influence directly the way they try and combat these accounts. They have been told how they work and that's as much as I can do unless something else arises that allows me and the other mods to assist in combating this issue.
  • BM_DaishoBM_Daisho Moderator Posts: 192
    gge have had a lot of tickets with proof of multi-accounting.  GGE own the accounts -  they can ban one even if they only suspect it of being a multi  -  with the proof they have received over the last couple of years half these multies at least should have been banned.  Why should the multies get the "benefit of the doubt" when normal players are sometimes blocked from the game and have to produce passport id verification  ??   GGE need to have the balls they expect some their players to have,  and deal with a problem, specially on EN1  that is breaking the game and making it unplayable for normal players.  An empty server will earn them  nothing,  zero wonga,  nowt.

    or perhaps the proxies will play with the proxies and still spend as much   ??
    I totally agree, they should do some tests on suspect accounts so they have to prove they are who they say they are. Sadly, something I think we both know is that GGS are reluctant to put the resources into combatting proxies frankly because they do bring in quite a lot of revenue even though they are paying on a cheaper currency so although from a player perspective the accounts are ruining the game, from a company perspective they are just another source of income. This might not be the case but it sure does look like it is that and its a shame since GGE was much better in prior years since they used to clamp down on cheating accounts and now it seems they do it less and less. 
  • Thank you for trying Daisho.  Sadly I feel it is a spiralling downwards problem that GGE are unwilling to take up when they know full well that they are not being even handed.  It will only lead one way.
    FabulousDulcie
    Proud leader of Phoenix Rises  (En 1)
  • bazzara (GB1)bazzara (GB1) GB1 Posts: 50
    hi daisho
    thanks for your input 
    but from our point of view we have given tickets in with 100% proof so we cant do anymore
    most players write in here as they still love this game and want to be playing it in 3 years time

    in someways the uk1 server sounds like its the one having more problem than the rest 
    but you can take it from me these players i guarantee your are already setting up other accounts on other servers too carry on its in there blood doing the same thing when this server collapses so real everybody should be watching what goes on here 

    just an example a dead account which has been dead for a long time owned by an english person rises from the dead run by somebody outside the uk and starts spending loads of money funny enought joinned  the same alliance full of shells
    another funny thing you send a message to one player and within 5 seconds he replys from another account  all small things but they add up 

    i think as our server is small compared to other so we do notice things and its so obvious to us whats going on 

    by the time they hit other servers we will all be gone  so you or somebody must remember this 
    your first duty is to make sure players have an enjoyable game to be honest most of us would give you 0/10 so far 
    its hard to imagine that even gge who know who cheat cant do anything but doing that must still see the amount of players leaving the game becouse its got so bad now
    even the cheats brag on game and in other rooms about what they do but gge does not take that as evidence

  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,442
    Sorry Poeseidon,   Perato theory only holds water if we are all using the same currency.  If the top "spenders"  are using cheap currencies,  then the real funds are coming from Joe Normal who pays with £sterling currency.  Make or allow Joe Normal's game to be wrecked with cheats and malicious play so that he no longer spends/plays,  and you have lost your player base.  Several of us know who these cheap currency players are  -  they have had previous accounts banned for chargebacks -  so gge makes very little from the at the end of the day.

    That's just wrong, it doesn't look at the currency at all, someone who buys 450 tickets for half the price would just rank differently on the scale of who spends the most amount of money. Most of the top spenders are using their server's general currency.


  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,442
    But as I believe Poseidon said, its still commiting fraud, so is GGE for or against fraud, sounds like your trying to find a way to condone it.
    Other information is that because of the state of the GB server many of the culprits, have put GB accounts, and shells into hibernation, and they are now doing the same on some of the other servers. If GGE don't act then those servers will soon be the same as GB. Where do you think many CG players went on holiday!
    It's indeed tax fraud, but that's the tax man's job to enforce.
  • BM_DaishoBM_Daisho Moderator Posts: 192
    edited 07.09.2021
    hi daisho
    thanks for your input 
    but from our point of view we have given tickets in with 100% proof so we cant do anymore
    most players write in here as they still love this game and want to be playing it in 3 years time

    in someways the uk1 server sounds like its the one having more problem than the rest 
    but you can take it from me these players i guarantee your are already setting up other accounts on other servers too carry on its in there blood doing the same thing when this server collapses so real everybody should be watching what goes on here 

    just an example a dead account which has been dead for a long time owned by an english person rises from the dead run by somebody outside the uk and starts spending loads of money funny enought joinned  the same alliance full of shells
    another funny thing you send a message to one player and within 5 seconds he replys from another account  all small things but they add up 

    i think as our server is small compared to other so we do notice things and its so obvious to us whats going on 

    by the time they hit other servers we will all be gone  so you or somebody must remember this 
    your first duty is to make sure players have an enjoyable game to be honest most of us would give you 0/10 so far 
    its hard to imagine that even gge who know who cheat cant do anything but doing that must still see the amount of players leaving the game becouse its got so bad now
    even the cheats brag on game and in other rooms about what they do but gge does not take that as evidence

    The proof that GGS is much more specific than just in-game stuff (for proxies at least), although flagging accounts using a standard report does mean they will get investigated. GB1 is probably having issues because it is a fairly small server so the server "infrastructure" is fragile and can be ruined by a few spenders who have a lot of money (in this case proxies however). In other servers there will be spenders on both sides and (most likely) proxies on both sides. I'm pretty certain that there are proxies on pretty much every server but depending on how "rich" the server is determines how well the server will react and combat the proxy accounts.

    To be frank, I don't think this issue will be fixed in the near future, or even the far future and this isn't the answer anyone wants to hear. GGE is in a post-peak era now, the game is coming to its end in the next 5 years or so (just a speculation).. it has been running successfully for 10 years and they want to keep the money coming in and with a reducing player-base then some issues within the game are sometimes overlooked and disregarded since income comes first. 
  • You are right BM Daisho and I think many know the game is coming to an end in the next few years.

    As for me once I complete level 6 HoL stuff I am done thinking about sceats.  I did the math a few months back and for me to do the 40K sceats for the lines would take about 5 years.  That is if GGE did not add something else to use them on that us non or low spenders need or desire.

    But the new stuff will be had by the Whales in a year or so at most so then GGE will add a line 8 at even higher sceats most likely I would think to try and keep them spending.

    Of course the big question is what is GGE going to do if 1/3 or 1/2 of the big spenders just say screw it and leave.   As per Poseidon X that 20% does 50% of the cash flow.   If you lose 1/3 to 1/2 of that it is a real hit.  Already GGE did a layoff like 2 or 3 years ago of alot of staff and it actually shows as no new real events have been added for a long long time.  

    I do not count just clones with slight changes to them a NEW EVENT.   


     
    Justinlegoboy @ usa 1
  • gazz65 (GB1)gazz65 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 710
    Does the Perato Principle account for the currencies these big spenders are using? I thought not. The biggest spenders on GB1 are most certainly not paying in pounds sterling.

    And there lies your problem, GGS not only failed to act on the currency manipulators they actually went and introduced new payment methods that made it easier for them in a sort of "grab what we can while we can" philosophy.

    The game is past being on its arse, it is dead. Just a few diehards left now that either think they are Billy Big Bollox because they use their cheap currency to load up on troops etc or like most of us they just log in for an hour or so to catch up with old mates. The latter have no interest in spending anymore to compete in events or fight wars, Why would we? We wouldnt be ripped of in real life so wont be letting it happen in a game.

    GGS have failed the customer, a cardinal sin of any business.
    It does, the square root of paying customers make up for half of the income. Unfortunately, that's just how the universe works. It's also why all the wealth gets into so few hands in the world, it is just how the world works... Anyways, I wasn't trying to defend the gap between spenders and none spenders, I think it could due with a bit of shrinking.
    I think skel is trying to point out the dodgy accounts which pay less for playing on uk
    server while rest of us pay higher amounts so the game is unfair.  if I  had a bank account in brazil 
    does that mean I can come to uk and use brazilian money to buy a pint at half the price as english 
    person would having english account. no it doesn't and that is why the game is dying a long drawn out death.

    apart from that roll on nomads again
  • just a thought for gge perhaps  -  when you run a business the person walking through the front door buying your goods/paying for your services,  pays towards your wages/income - every one of them,  not just the top minority%.  Upset them at your peril.

    several very big spenders have stopped spending because gge won't listen to them  -  we are left with the cheats and trolls paying to spoil what was a good game.
    FabulousDulcie
    Proud leader of Phoenix Rises  (En 1)
  • bazzara (GB1)bazzara (GB1) GB1 Posts: 50
    another point to mention looking at in on those figures again
    even if the ratio of 9900 brings in 50% of the income and 100 brings in 50% of the income

    you would still have to look at the ratio  where members are leaving 
    at the moment that would have to be 99 to 1  to keep the balance 
    and as a guess only  that would be more likely to be  300 to 1  on the uk1 server  

    so both sets of figures need to be looked after  or the rate of  % income from the 100 gets even higher but in fact they are not spending anymore money  just the 9900 are %  spending less everybody sees that as not a good thing 

    for a business  those % are totally out of balance 
    a business to survive i would say needs 
    9900 to bring in  80%  and 100 to bring in 20%

    hope you can understand that
      but the fact is for most of us the game is dead now  no candle in the tunnel either  the lucky ones are the ones that have already left we need  to come to terms with it as well
  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,442
    for a business  those % are totally out of balance 
    a business to survive i would say needs 
    9900 to bring in  80%  and 100 to bring in 20%
    I am sorry but that just doesn't happen. It sounds weird, but it's 100% true... And it's not just money, it's everything.
    The smaller you keep the numbers the easier it is to grasp, but it still holds true with massive numbers.

    In a company with 10 people it wouldn't be weird if about 3-4 people did half the work.
    But it does seem a bit weird if you say that 100 people do half the work in a company with 10.000

    But our feelings don't really matter when it comes to math ;-)

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