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Food and wall items

I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

So the question is where are you going with this?  

Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














Philt123 @ en 1

Comments

  • Kage (ASIA1)Kage (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,943
    At this point in the game, you' d need to equalize the number of attack troops with defense troops to burn a outpost.
    That's just from what i've seen on Katamaran's video a long time ago.
    50k attack troops for 50k defenders.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBrd_BJiTOs
    Those are just horrors and ruby troops.
    So the balance on this game went ... too far from normal.
    ] - asia 1 / Second player on power -   - 2.8m power - Oct. 04. 2019 

     I'm a ghost, but i'm still here.
     To be continued....

  • cheza2000 (GB1)cheza2000 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 270
    It's an incredibly good post philt, just a shame the GGS will not read it.  If they cared then perhaps some of those developers would interact with their player base on here instead of leaving the CM's to face all the questions and criticisms. 

    Ruby or non ruby, every  player has a value. And there is no way to know what that is in monetary terms.  What draws most of us online is the friends we make.  When you make them nothing says it's on the basis of  ruby spend. If the game drives away non ruby friends then ruby players may go too. So keeping your non ruby players happy should be just as important as keeping the ruby ones happy. 
    cheza2000 @ en 1
    Praetorians
  • Philt123 (GB1)Philt123 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,839
    Interesting video thanks for posting.

    So basically you have a top end player with feared title needing 84k Golden horrors to clear out 1 op from 1 click.

    It would have taken a  good few k more than that but at start he was defendign with no tools as soon as he started defending with tools he started holding the wall and then losses were approx 3250 golden horrors to 2000 coin troops.   

    thats from 1 click!!!  imagine when the million def troops land in a normal attack situation! you gonna deed 3 times the troops.

    So if a top end player cant defeat the wall now with the best ruby troops in the game vs coin troops its going to be even sillier with level 20 wall items.

    85k golden horrors, it obviously depends massivly on the offer you get but on average I am guessing that would cost £250-£300 for me 

    So all of a sudden we can see why PVP is dead, when you gotta spend £300 to beat one op, and thats from 1 click.  from 100 clicks you would probably need £5000 and then probably not get close if it was supported.

    If he has used coin troops he would have been destroyed.  

    Kind of makes the point where are GGE heading with this as it seems to be runnign towards a brick wall, screaming faster faster seemingly oblivious to the impending car crash just around the corner.


    Philt123 @ en 1
  • Kage (ASIA1)Kage (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,943

    And here comes the question for many alliances from various servers.

    Is it worth to defend at his point a capital or metro?

    No.... At least from my point of view, I own a capital and I'll tell you what. Marking the palace is a mistake , just don't build it. Cuz it takes lots of space where you could put a few more decoratives.

    So yeah again is it worth defending a worthless capital which gives 9k food (maximum 10 to 11k)and some crappy troops to recruit?

    ] - asia 1 / Second player on power -   - 2.8m power - Oct. 04. 2019 

     I'm a ghost, but i'm still here.
     To be continued....

  • benjames (AU1)benjames (AU1) AU1 Posts: 223
    edited 11.07.2019
    The problem is you can't send 50k attackers and hope to kill 50k defenders. The reality is now...you send 50k attackers, you will kill 20k def if not less.

    GGS struggle to find the middle point...its always to the extreme at either end of the scale.
    Benjames--><--Semajneb


    Great Success!



  • Yeah Benjames is right

  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,051
    You mut have done some recruitment calculation wrong since I don't think our accounts are that different, cause I make 5 (then with alliance help 6) imperial marksmen with feast at an average of 5 minuites and 10 seconds ao around 11.7k a day so I can do about 11 hit each day so I can get it twice as fast, still overall way too long and by the time you have like 10 of them they'll be avaible for rubys anyways so why bother, totally agree with you overall.

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
  • Venom (ASIA1)Venom (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,232
    2 largest issues I see are: 

    You need a full attack of vets to break wall. However you only need 700-800 vet defenders to hold the wall. 

    Stacking in the courtyard, With commanders now having similar CY strength as castellan's. It's becoming a lot more harder to match. I'd say just cap it at a certain amount (tested and tried with professional players on a closed server).


    Venom @ Asia - Member for Drunken Fist
    Venom @ Australia - War Marshal for Shadow Lords!!

    Best player on the test server B)

  • I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

    When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

    The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

    Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

    To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

    So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

    To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

    So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

    So the question is where are you going with this?  

    Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

    When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

    As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

    In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

    Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

    If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

    The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

    Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

    Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

    I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

    so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

    So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

    So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

    So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

    We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

    Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

    Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

    Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

    This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

    I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

    from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

    Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

    You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

    I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














    Spoken like a real ruby whale.
  • Kyriakos (GB1)Kyriakos (GB1) GB1 Posts: 142
    edited 25.11.2019
    I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

    When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

    The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

    Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

    To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

    So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

    To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

    So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

    So the question is where are you going with this?  

    Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

    When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

    As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

    In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

    Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

    If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

    The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

    Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

    Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

    I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

    so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

    So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

    So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

    So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

    We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

    Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

    Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

    Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

    This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

    I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

    from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

    Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

    You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

    I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














    Spoken like a real ruby whale.
    Who else knows the issues surrounding the ability to buy invincibility, than a person who buys invincibility?
    ~~ Kyriakos

    War Marshall at Odin's Fury


  • I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

    When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

    The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

    Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

    To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

    So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

    To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

    So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

    So the question is where are you going with this?  

    Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

    When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

    As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

    In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

    Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

    If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

    The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

    Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

    Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

    I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

    so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

    So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

    So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

    So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

    We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

    Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

    Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

    Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

    This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

    I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

    from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

    Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

    You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

    I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














    Spoken like a real ruby whale.
    Who else knows the issues surrounding the ability to buy invincibility, than a person who buys invincibility?
    Who has bought invincibility....? The maths that were used in the post were pretty good and accurate but there is a variable missing; sleep. Surely players need to sleep, unless they are using bots to mass recruit. That is the only thing that strikes me, botting is unfortunately alive and kicking. :-(
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

    When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

    The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

    Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

    To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

    So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

    To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

    So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

    So the question is where are you going with this?  

    Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

    When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

    As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

    In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

    Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

    If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

    The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

    Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

    Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

    I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

    so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

    So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

    So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

    So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

    We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

    Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

    Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

    Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

    This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

    I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

    from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

    Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

    You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

    I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














    Spoken like a real ruby whale.
    Who else knows the issues surrounding the ability to buy invincibility, than a person who buys invincibility?
    Who has bought invincibility....? The maths that were used in the post were pretty good and accurate but there is a variable missing; sleep. Surely players need to sleep, unless they are using bots to mass recruit. That is the only thing that strikes me, botting is unfortunately alive and kicking. :-(
    Botting and account sharing...…...
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • Kyriakos (GB1)Kyriakos (GB1) GB1 Posts: 142
    I am a little bit puzzled by the direction being taken in the evoloution of the game.

    When have you ever heard someone in this game in the last few years say......   Oh the walls in this game are way too easy to break, I can send any old attack out and its going to destroy the wall!!!  when hitting a ruby player we are already facing walls of 600-900 regularly, and thats before we even factor in defensive HOL which has always made breaking the wall totally and utterly impossible.

    The wall has been all but impossible to take for a while now against a ruby player with a good cast and half decent skill.  So what do you do?  bring out a level 20 wall item, this I have no doubt will bring the 1200 troop wall into reality!!!!!!  Good luck making a dint in that!

    Factor in you have combined this with a level 20 food item!!!!   so all of a sudden 60,000 food production per op / outer castle is going to be very much a possibility.  Meaning ruby players will be able to hold 33,000 defensive troops PER CASTLE with zero food burns, and also combined with 7-800 wall size and 100% CY strength and +30 troop strength.  You are basically making these castles impossible to attack.

    To make matters worse, the reality is these advances are really only available for Ruby players.  so you have a non ruby player that is limited to a level 10 wall item, +55 troops and now we have Ruby players being able to access +185 wall size Which believe me is a HUGE disparity especially when multiplied up by whatever cast / hol bonus you add.

    So now you have given many players the ability to hold 20-30,000+ defenders per castle as a normal standing defense.  you have given ruby players the ability to put 750+ defenders on the wall with a +30% troop strength cast with 100% CY Bonus.  And thats before we consider the implications of relic casts.

    To make matters worse you have Increased bonus's for support speed with 100% now available for alliances with 30 people subscribing, add to this the fact that +300% support speed is available for pretty much all alliances now.

    So you are now in a position where the bigger alliance have a pool of  literally millions of defenders (in green) and many hundreds of thousands if not millions in outers.  And those figures will only increase from here on in as players improve their castles.  And these alliances have every fast support speed.  So if you are hitting with more notice than say 7 mins you are going to run into a brick wall, hit with more than 10 mins and a brick wall is guaranteed, hit a big alliance with 20 mins notice in green and its simply a matter of how many they actually want to send in support, but could be many hundreds of thousands!

    So the question is where are you going with this?  

    Firstly let me say I am 100% on board with the continual evoloution of players / castles, equipment etc etc.  It really is the only real way you will keep existing players interested, and lets be honest here the number of new players joining the game are pretty much zero at this point, and old players starting new cheap ruby proxies or new shell accounts doesnt count LOL.

    When you introduce a new item to the game do you have a team of people that will sit down and discuss balance?  for example the new wall items ? the impact on PVP, the ability of the attacker to breech the walls, the impact on the differential between ruby and non ruby players?  Or do you just say well if we bring it out people will buy it and that will increase revenue, sod the balance?

    As I have to say from the outside looking in it looks like the latter!!!

    In terms of ruby / non ruby balance why dont you consider every time there is a new upgrade to say wall items, you increase the level of item you can construct in the construction yard, for example why not make it possible to make a level 12 wall item in the construction yard now.  To try to ensure the differential is big enough to incentivise players to spend but not too big to mean non ruby players cant compete at all.

    Why not consider wall items for Attackers?  it makes sense that if you are increasing the amount of troops on the wall for defenders then why not do the same for attackers.  Why not increase the HOL levels and allow players to add more troops on the flank / centre ?  

    If we go back to a time where the game allowed 1250 troops in attack and a top end food production was 10,000 and you were only ever looking at 320 troops on the wall.  Defenders ate 4 food.  So since that time top end food production is over 50,000 defensive troops now eat 25% less food so during that time defensive troop storage has increased approx 700%  yet the attacking army size has only increased 240%.

    The game mechanics are a fine fine margin, 10% varience either way can mean the difference between getting crushed and having a chance.

    Yet you throw things in to the game with no regard for how it will effect the game mechanics.  The ability to produce and send all these extra troops killing many of them in the process means it takes an increasing about of time to replace these troops.  You brought out a new event the other day that basically involves losing 3-500 troops every hit if hitting a level 3 camp or 1000-1500 troops per hit if hitting a level 4 camp.  Meaning approx 500 troops die per 300 Medals gained.  

    Now I have pretty decent castles so have pretty high production speeds so I would guess this example will be even worse for the vast majority of players. but for me it takes approx 1:20 to produce an attacking troop, it varies of course between castle and troop type but lets use this an an average, this is on full 600% feast.

    I have 7 castles so can produce 7 troops every 1:20 or 45 per hour x 7  so 315 troops per hour.  flat out production.  in every castle.  

    so if i do 2 feasts a day produce troops 16 hrs a day which is not bad going,  that will give me 5000 troops per day produced, and lets say i do this every day for the 4 days of the event.  meaning i can produce 20,000 troops.  in 64 straight hours worth of production.  

    So this allows me to hit 13 level 4 camps or about 40 level 3 camps.  Lets assume that we can actally beat level 4 camps using coin troops for a min!!!!  which i know we cant at higher level camps!

    So thats what about an hours worth of game play for what 4 days worth of 16 hr a day production?

    So lets work out what that acutally means so we know that we can produce circa 20,000 troops during an event.  

    We know it takes 500 troops to get 300 medals   and it takes approx 30 troops to gain approx 75 Sam tokens.  so to get 300,000 sam tokens will take circa 120,000 troops, and to get 200,000 medals will take 330,000 troops.  So Approx 450,000 troops needed to gain 1 level 20 food item.

    Thats 81 million coins, or well over 500 million coin if you use relic troops!!!! I dont know how often GGE intend to run this event but if it runs once a month, it will take the non ruby player approx 2 years to get enough tokens to get 1 single level 20 food item and nothing else. if it runs twice a month then that obviously goes to 1 year.if we only take 100% productive food generators thats still 33 base food items needed.  thats  66 years to get a full set to cover your 100% items or 33 years if run twice a month.

    Thats a hell of a lot of time and effort for very very little actual gameplay, and very little reward.

    Worse than this you have made it so these level 4 camps are all but impossible to beat with coin troops.

    This is what i mean by balance, if you dont get it right you will not just lose your non ruby players, but you will also lose your ruby players too.  

    I am just interested on your strategy is?  Do you have one?  Do you look at these things?  As from what i can see the game is just becoming more and more imbalanced in both attacking / defending and also between ruby and non ruby players.  And as a result people are losing interest fast.

    from your own statistics, 39% decline in Monthly active player in last 12 months.  

    Employees reduced from over 1200 to what under 400 in the space of 4 years?

    You have done the lets ignore player stuff for the last 4 years be honest how is that working for you?  

    I am not pretending to have all the answers, but you have to start asking the right questions, and be prepared to hear some things you might not like.  Because, those figures are frightening, and unsustainable in any sort of longer term period.














    Spoken like a real ruby whale.
    Who else knows the issues surrounding the ability to buy invincibility, than a person who buys invincibility?
    Who has bought invincibility....? The maths that were used in the post were pretty good and accurate but there is a variable missing; sleep. Surely players need to sleep, unless they are using bots to mass recruit. That is the only thing that strikes me, botting is unfortunately alive and kicking. :-(

    Not necessarily. Have enough food in your castles and you can sleep soundly even with 20-30k troops.
    ~~ Kyriakos

    War Marshall at Odin's Fury


  • kookiekooks (US1)kookiekooks (US1) US1 Posts: 259
    edited 29.11.2019
    Just like politics which tend to swing from left to right and back again.  GGE has always swung from being offensive friendly to being defensive minded.  I appreciate that and as new "innovations" are introduced maintaining a balance become more difficult.  I would expect a swing towards attacking over the next year.
    kookiekooks @ usa 1

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