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Has GGE given up on Multis ?

Philt123 (GB1)Philt123 (GB1) Posts: 1,672
Some time ago there was in depth discussions about the sheer number of multis in the game, GGE admitted it was very hard to ban these accounts as it was very hard to prove misuse.  However they promised they would look at the game look at the mechanics of the game look at how offers were given and ensure that future revisions to the game would ensure multis would not benefit from them.  GGE recognised that Multis, would rotate accounts, to minimise their spend on the game, waiting until they recieved the cheaper ruby offers (at that time 200%) when they recieved these offers they would jump into that account spending on that account thus being able to play the game significantly cheaper than those that played by the rules.

GGE agreed that this was in fact happening and as a result decided to make changes to the game, as it promised removed the largest offers for non spending or not logging in, it removed the huge come back offers, realising that far from bringing back players that have actually quit the game, all it was really doing was allowing those who break the rules to profit.

Now fast forward in time, and GGE have done a U Turn, now 300% offers are available for those accounts that dont play for a few weeks, and 500% offers are available for those accounts that have been parked for quite some time.

So if any of you wondered why when looking at the playing style of certain players, ie they play very hard for a week or so using their cheap rubies / troops from GGE's lets support multiple account offers.  then go dormant for a few weeks, prob in pro.   Then a month later they are right back at it again.  And they park that account up and jump right into another account that has the benefit of these cheap offers.

Have you also wondered why so many dead accounts are coming back to life, accounts where you personally knew the owner of that account and you know full well they are not playing the game any more.  Yes more muti accounting bonus's from GGE, this time 500%.

What about GGE's rule that it was very very difficult to change an account name?  thus ensuring that accounts couldnt "erase" their history, now it seems that its very easy to change account name, thus making it easy for those players to hide their accounts dodgy past, and make it easier for the multis/

How about the proliferation of accounts using proxies and VPN's to access cheaper rubies?  Has GGE stamped this out?  When you contact them about it they call it fraudulent, and have a team dedicated to dealing with it.  But the chances are that when competing in your kingdom league group, or competing for event rewards, you are doing it against players that have access to rubies significantly cheaper than you.  Even though they could be your next door neighbour.  GGE claim to be on top of this, but the sheer number of accounts in the game like this suggest that far from being on top of it, they are losing this battle just like they have done with the multis.  When challenged they say of report them and we will investigate it.  But the reality is its not players responsibility, GGE should have the resources and the ability to automatically stamp this from the game.  If it cant then it shoudl bite the bullet and make rubies the same price per server.

So the question is Have GGE given up?  Why when a company recognises that the way its structuring the game means its benefiting those that break the rules the most, and is detremental to those players that play the game legitimatly.  And it makes changes accordingly.  Why then does it undo all its hard work and go right back to square 1 again?

Of course we know the answer, its because GGE are hemorrhaging  Players, they are bailing out from the game and in large numbers.  So instead of actually addressing the inequalities in the game, addressing the issues that causing people to leave in the first place.  GGE thinks short term and panics and says lets try to "buy" those players back lets give them an offer they cant refuse.  And the cycle start all over again, and instead of improving the situation,  its actually making the reasons why players are leaving the game worse.

So the question stand to the community managers, Have GGE now legitimised Proxy / VPN Use, has it legitimised Multiple accounts?

Becasue honestly Actions speak louder than words, and although the corporate line is one thing the company's actions (or inaction) say something very different.


Philt123 @ en 1

Comments

  • PJH_ (GB1)PJH_ (GB1) Posts: 314GB1
    As said elsewhere, "given up" implies some sort of activity in the first place and, unfortunately, any activity isn't reported on by GGE for reasons they probably best understood themselves....

    It really does seem to imply tacit acceptance that T&C's can be broken when it suits one party...... which i'd think is a European law violation of that a corporation would want to be seen not to be doing for all sorts of good legal and profit protection reasons......

    [you'd think in can't be GDPR, naming account names and cheating alliances certainly isn't personally identifiable data....]

    Anyhow : thanks for trying to keep the forums active... hopefully a moderator can merge these two valuable threeads and feed back the unhappiness of users with the current situation...

    yours, Don Quixote
  • As said elsewhere, "given up" implies some sort of activity in the first place and, unfortunately, any activity isn't reported on by GGE for reasons they probably best understood themselves....

    It really does seem to imply tacit acceptance that T&C's can be broken when it suits one party...... which i'd think is a European law violation of that a corporation would want to be seen not to be doing for all sorts of good legal and profit protection reasons......

    [you'd think in can't be GDPR, naming account names and cheating alliances certainly isn't personally identifiable data....]

    Anyhow : thanks for trying to keep the forums active... hopefully a moderator can merge these two valuable threeads and feed back the unhappiness of users with the current situation...

    yours, Don Quixote
    while I'm certainly no law expert, I assume its written somewhere in the T&Cs that they will be enforced at GGS discretion. seems to me like a simple line to cover their butts, legally speaking.

    don't know what you mean by GDPR and all that, but the reason naming and shaming is against the forum rules is because there are tons of unsubstantiated claims out there made by players that are just mad and want to get someone in trouble. I dont know how it is on GB1, but on US1 people are constantly threatening bigger players with "I'm gonna report you for attacking me and you'll get banned! You're obviously a cheater to have defeated me!" and crap like that. same thing happens when crappy level 70s get hit by a level 30, "you're obviously an alt of a top player! I reported you and you're going to get banned!" if they allowed that kind of stuff to be posted publicly, the forums would be nothing but a public shit-slinging contest of claims with no evidence to back them up. there's also the fact that it's not productive to post here, the support people at GGS dont look at these forums to find players to investigate, its done purely out of spite and to draw negative attention to certain players.

    as for the OP, I agree, these are issues, but GGS has to be careful with how they approach them. lets say tomorrow they banned everyone who utilizes a VPN for any reason, that's assuming that they have the ability to do this, both legally and actually speaking. we don't know how many players that is. we don't know how many major spenders that is. would these people come back and play and spend if their accounts were banned? how many of them are actually abusing the currency system, vs people just wanting to protect their privacy? while I dont use a VPN on this game, there are some that I do, even going so far as to play them in a VM to protect my PC. the problem has been around for so long, and become so widely known, that for all we know many of the top players would get banned by something like this. GGS would be shooting themselves in the foot by banning half their top players. these issues wouldn't be here if GGS enforced them from the beginning, but here we are, with rampant problems and no true 'easy' solutions that work for both players and the company.
    Friedrich IV US1
    The Prodigal Scrub Returns
  • PJH_ (GB1)PJH_ (GB1) Posts: 314GB1
    edited 06.10.2019
    For non Europeans GDPR is the "General Data Protection Regulations" which  came into law in Europe in 2018 and is all about what you can and can't do with personally identifiable information - it was a general tightening up of privacy/data holding laws and, as you can imagine for a European wide law, its designed by committee and implemented in fairly uneven ways...

    So the legal question being: is your user name "personally identifiable" which would result in breaking T&C's 5.3.g regarding the forum use?

    GGE has used reference to this and similar localised laws (and changed their T&C a year back...) as to why justice cannot be seen to be done by saying it can't tell us WHO has been banned for what.... so yeah, I was thinking it more that GGE names and shames players that it does ban (after all, we do know that players occasionally do get banned.... though suspect its more for financial irregularities than any other breach of T&C's.....) rather than any change to forum rules for general posts (5.3.d would cover....).....  after all, complaining in forums achieves little (despite, i'm sure, mods best efforts) ...advising support with "evidence" is a mostly unknown quantity :)

    I'm no lawyer either, but the T&C are part of the contract that is basically saying..."you break this, we could take away your account no matter how much cash you've sunk into this" and for their protection they probably wouldn't have what would be an "unfair term" that only one party to the contract could vary it at will at any time without written notification. I may be wrong but the way Altigi GmbH T&C's are written is very clear and, as it should be, be well written given that it seems to have a poker gaming arm as well as the strategy game mmo's


    *****
    Interestingly, having perused the May 2018 T&C online.....The explicit VPN ban is still there....
    3.3.6Goodgame Studios' websites may not be used via an anonymization service that hides the user's true IP address.

    (I'd have thought highly unenforceable for a number of technical and ,as mentioned, but hopefully corporately irrelevant, financial reasons!)
    Post edited by PJH_ (GB1) on
  • For non Europeans GDPR is the "General Data Protection Regulations" which  came into law in Europe in 2018 and is all about what you can and can't do with personally identifiable information - it was a general tightening up of privacy/data holding laws and, as you can imagine for a European wide law, its designed by committee and implemented in fairly uneven ways...

    So the legal question being: is your user name "personally identifiable" which would result in breaking T&C's 5.3.g regarding the forum use?

    GGE has used reference to this and similar localised laws (and changed their T&C a year back...) as to why justice cannot be seen to be done by saying it can't tell us WHO has been banned for what.... so yeah, I was thinking it more that GGE names and shames players that it does ban (after all, we do know that players occasionally do get banned.... though suspect its more for financial irregularities than any other breach of T&C's.....) rather than any change to forum rules for general posts (5.3.d would cover....).....  after all, complaining in forums achieves little (despite, i'm sure, mods best efforts) ...advising support with "evidence" is a mostly unknown quantity :)

    I'm no lawyer either, but the T&C are part of the contract that is basically saying..."you break this, we could take away your account no matter how much cash you've sunk into this" and for their protection they probably wouldn't have what would be an "unfair term" that only one party to the contract could vary it at will at any time without written notification. I may be wrong but the way Altigi GmbH T&C's are written is very clear and, as it should be, be well written given that it seems to have a poker gaming arm as well as the strategy game mmo's


    *****
    Interestingly, having perused the May 2018 T&C online.....The explicit VPN ban is still there....
    3.3.6Goodgame Studios' websites may not be used via an anonymization service that hides the user's true IP address.

    (I'd have thought highly unenforceable for a number of technical and ,as mentioned, but hopefully corporately irrelevant, financial reasons!)
    Not sure how it plays into personally identifiable and such, but people do get forum-banned and that's apparent to the community because once banned it changes a player's profile picture. Similar with ingame, financial-related bans seem to always accompany an impossibly long bird. So in these two cases, you can tell when someone's been banned.

    The explicit VPN ban may be still there, but that doesn't mean it's realistic to enforce, yeah. There's lots of different kinds of bans used across all kinds of platforms, from account bans to IP bans to MAC address bans.. and all except account bans can typically be bypassed. Regarding VPN ban specifically, I assume the legal argument could be made that one has a legal right to online privacy that supersedes the T&Cs, but again I'm no expert.

    Speaking as a former-mod, they have nothing to do with support. Complaining about people on here, no matter how much evidence you do or don't have, is not only against forum rules but a waste of time because no one who can do anything about it can see it. We can complain about the general state of things, but anything more specific is just a waste of everyone's time.
    Friedrich IV US1
    The Prodigal Scrub Returns
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