Availability of Construction & Upgrade tokens

Player X (GB1) · 18.06.2019

I'd first like to stress that I'm very pleased with GGE's recent updates concerning the relic tokens and relic buildings with the exception of the military academy and barracks. These 2 buildings and their upgrades are really quite ridiculous and very, very, very (very) expensive, especially when considering their considerably pathetic effects. Please change and improve their costs and effects.

Now, although the new relic buildings are on the whole excellent (e.g. relic greenhouse) the availability of relic materials is simply too low. Amassing the amounts needed to build a greenhouse and fully upgrade are astronomical when compared to the availability of these materials.

The only 2 places where significant numbers of these tokens can be won is in the Kingdom's League and The Outer Realms. In the case of the Outer Realms this amount is only significant when one participates in frankly what I believe is the most boring event Empire has exhibited yet. In the case of The Kingdom League, ability to win construction tokens is simply too limited.

Please ensure that the availability of these tokens is increased by implementing them as rewards in multiple other events.

~Player X~

Player X (GB1) · 18.06.2019

Anyone who feels similarly to me is encouraged to post their opinions here.

Cordial Warrior (US1) · 20.06.2019

I agree with you about the difficulty in gaining construction tokens.

Frankly, this is another back door method by GGE to pressure players to purchase rubies. If you want to excel in the Outer Realms or the Kingdom's League you must use ruby banners, or spend rubies to speed upgrades, etc.
It seems that virtually all major upgrades are fashioned such that players cannot keep up or advance without spending more on rubies.

It isn't an overt extortion. You can still play without increasing your ruby purchase amounts or frequency. But you fall more and more behind now. It is like a progressive tax increase, hidden from view.

But the effect turns out to be the same. As the taxes increase, there comes a point at which business owners decide that the benefit of doing business is erased by higher and higher taxes, even if disguised as hidden fees and so on. At some point the business owner decides not to expand his business, and then finally to stop working his butt just to make the government richer.

Players will sit back, look at themselves and ask what's wrong with this picture? The circumstances under which they originally decided that GGE was a good return for them, gave them enjoyment for a reasonable amount of money have continuously changed, the return on investment has steadily dropped.

What really irks me is that I know I cannot forecast plans to continue playing the game. The only constant is that GGE is progressively making it more expensive to play and enjoy the game.

So yes, I think they make it entirely too difficult to obtain construction tokens. The ruby players won't notice, as they are already spending a lot on rubies. Retired people who began playing the game must re-evaluate GGE as an accessible source of entertainment.

looroll12345 (GB1) · 21.06.2019

Completely agree, but also the amount gained from outers is far more than the kingdoms league.
The league almost isn't worth it for the amount, whereas outers almost forces you to buy the starter pack (which although inexpensive, is still unfair to those who want to play for free).
Other options of getting tokens would be appreciated.
Where skipping outers would not be a significant loss of opportunity for tokens.

ken.n (US1) · 22.06.2019

I disagree I think we are earning enough tokens to make progress at a fair rate and it can be done with a minimal ruby output. Those of us that built their castles before skips were introduced into the game remember what an achievement is was getting to level 70. It should take another 6 months to finish your builds just go slowly and enjoy.

The biggest issue I see is the cost of recruiting relic troops is so high that almost no one on the server is going to make them on a ongoing basis. Even the biggest looter does not want to spend in excess of ten million coins a day make the price reasonable or most will never use this feature. Considering that they are weaker than ruby troops they are not even a good option for ruby buyers.

Player X (GB1) · 24.06.2019

ken.n (US1) said:

I disagree I think we are earning enough tokens to make progress at a fair rate and it can be done with a minimal ruby output.

Hey ken. I respect your opinion, but please tell me, how many relic greenhouses level 20 have you got?

If you have more than 4 then you're obviously a heavy ruby buyer or you spend many, many hours on the game every day. I'm afraid for those of us who spend a couple of hours tops on the game per day and don't buy a storeroom full of rubies find the possibility of quickly receiving tokens and building greenhouses non-existent.

Herveus (AU1) · 24.06.2019

Player X (GB1) said:

ken.n (US1) said:

I disagree I think we are earning enough tokens to make progress at a fair rate and it can be done with a minimal ruby output.

Hey ken. I respect your opinion, but please tell me, how many relic greenhouses level 20 have you got?

If you have more than 4 then you're obviously a heavy ruby buyer or you spend many, many hours on the game every day. I'm afraid for those of us who spend a couple of hours tops on the game per day and don't buy a storeroom full of rubies find the possibility of quickly receiving tokens and building greenhouses non-existent.

I have 6 at level 20 and 6 in total and I've spent under 5 hours total on each outer realm so far and spend exactly 1.99€ there in total that looking back was not needed, the heavy ruby buyers got 10 or more level 20 greenhouses by now.

bernhardt (US1) · 24.06.2019

I got 12 of them, all of which are lvl 16 or higher. Only a couple at lvl 20. I don't buy rubies because I think GGE is too poorly run to deserve my money, and not buying makes it more challenging(as does the poorly run part).

Now here's a question: We know greenhouses go into storage if at an op and it's captured. Anybody know what happens if one builds one in storm? I'm guessing storage.

Wasso (INT3) · 25.06.2019

Player X (GB1) said:

ken.n (US1) said:

I disagree I think we are earning enough tokens to make progress at a fair rate and it can be done with a minimal ruby output.

Hey ken. I respect your opinion, but please tell me, how many relic greenhouses level 20 have you got?

If you have more than 4 then you're obviously a heavy ruby buyer or you spend many, many hours on the game every day. I'm afraid for those of us who spend a couple of hours tops on the game per day and don't buy a storeroom full of rubies find the possibility of quickly receiving tokens and building greenhouses non-existent.

With all due respect, why should someone who plays sparingly expect to advance at the same rate as someone who plays more often (than they should)?

As it sits, you can get enough Construction and Upgrade Tokens with doing ALMOST NOTHING after 2 rounds of the Outer Realms to build a Greenhouse and Upgrade it to 20.

See my other comment about this: https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/comment/5058836#Comment_5058836

That sounds MORE than fair to me...……..

ken.n (US1) · 25.06.2019

I have 5 at level 20 another two that will be maxed by the end of the current outer realms. I have spent $15 on rubies the entire year and spend less than 30 minutes a day in the outer realms. I will admit I spend much to much time in the main game.

UD1 (INT1) · 25.06.2019

I to have 9 level 20 with this O/R i will complete 12 , Leaving 2 more to complete , i go nuts in the first 2 day and then i do not go back, i have spent £25 each time to get the rewards , but i do not spend the rubies they come back to me , also it may cost me slightly more than most , but i am not that smart in game as most . but as long as i get what i want from the O/R

so unless they come up with something else for tokens , i only need to do 1 more O/R and the rest of the time i just enter and get something for nothing

Player X (GB1) · 26.06.2019

Hey everyone, I appreciate you all taking the time to state your opinions. My previous statement is apparently incorrect about the number of greenhouses and I apologise for that. All the same, you players are obviously very active and a higher level e.g. Herveus. For players like me who are a lower level find it very difficult to obtain sufficient tokens even with hard work.

Furthermore, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone actually enjoys playing Outer Realms. So many players have complained it's incredibly boring that I feel that GGE should acknowledge this fact and adjust the system-perhaps instituting new events to obtain the tokens that are actually enjoyable? I'd suggest implementing them into the reward systems of already made events that are a lot of fun such as nomads and samurais.

Concerning the following comment however:

Wasso (INT3) said:
With all due respect, why should someone who plays sparingly expect to advance at the same rate as someone who plays more often (than they should)?

As it sits, you can get enough Construction and Upgrade Tokens with doing ALMOST NOTHING after 2 rounds of the Outer Realms to build a Greenhouse and Upgrade it to 20.

Now, 2 rounds of Outers is approximately a month or more. So... at the rate of a single greenhouse fully upgraded a month that's about 12 per year. Not only is that hugely unimpressive but it's ridiculous- saving up an entire YEAR for a dozen buildings? That seems absolutely pathetic to me- after 365 days of playing you don't even have half an outpost full of them? I'm afraid this must be improved as this rate is simply too slow.

Herveus (AU1) · 26.06.2019

Player X (GB1) said:

Hey everyone, I appreciate you all taking the time to state your opinions. My previous statement is apparently incorrect about the number of greenhouses and I apologise for that. All the same, you players are obviously very active and a higher level e.g. Herveus. For players like me who are a lower level find it very difficult to obtain sufficient tokens even with hard work.

Furthermore, I find it very difficult to believe that anyone actually enjoys playing Outer Realms. So many players have complained it's incredibly boring that I feel that GGE should acknowledge this fact and adjust the system-perhaps instituting new events to obtain the tokens that are actually enjoyable? I'd suggest implementing them into the reward systems of already made events that are a lot of fun such as nomads and samurais.

Concerning the following comment however:

Wasso (INT3) said:
With all due respect, why should someone who plays sparingly expect to advance at the same rate as someone who plays more often (than they should)?

As it sits, you can get enough Construction and Upgrade Tokens with doing ALMOST NOTHING after 2 rounds of the Outer Realms to build a Greenhouse and Upgrade it to 20.

Now, 2 rounds of Outers is approximately a month or more. So... at the rate of a single greenhouse fully upgraded a month that's about 12 per year. Not only is that hugely unimpressive but it's ridiculous- saving up an entire YEAR for a dozen buildings? That seems absolutely pathetic to me- after 365 days of playing you don't even have half an outpost full of them? I'm afraid this must be improved as this rate is simply too slow.

You can only have 2 per castle so 14 is the max I can tell you I do not enjoy playing outer realms I spend less than 2 hours total there and no money and I go at a rate of 1 1/2 Greenhouses a month yeah it's slow but that's because I do barely anything for it, players that do play outer realms more activly will be done with them by the end of the year, and the people that are active and spend a bit (meaning under 100€ but still quite a bit) are done already

Venom (ASIA1) · 26.06.2019

My thoughts: needs to come in regular events, and in small doses, but still offering the same amount for hard working players.

As it currently stands at, if you get a level 1 relic greenhouse, you get a level 20 relic greenhouse 5 minutes later (for the majority).

And everyone gets the greenhouses at the same time period, while it should be at any random point for everyone.

Wasso (INT3) · 26.06.2019

Player X (GB1) said:

Concerning the following comment however:

Wasso (INT3) said:
With all due respect, why should someone who plays sparingly expect to advance at the same rate as someone who plays more often (than they should)?

As it sits, you can get enough Construction and Upgrade Tokens with doing ALMOST NOTHING after 2 rounds of the Outer Realms to build a Greenhouse and Upgrade it to 20.

Now, 2 rounds of Outers is approximately a month or more. So... at the rate of a single greenhouse fully upgraded a month that's about 12 per year. Not only is that hugely unimpressive but it's ridiculous- saving up an entire YEAR for a dozen buildings? That seems absolutely pathetic to me- after 365 days of playing you don't even have half an outpost full of them? I'm afraid this must be improved as this rate is simply too slow.

You gloss over the point that the effort put into it makes the difference. My Wasso account is on pace to get a 2500 - 5000 finish this round. My other server account is in that 10k - 25k range. How is that possible? I am the same person with presumably the same skills...….. It is because my other server is my Event server. I was focused on Nomads and am now focused on Beri. Some days I don't even log into the Outer Realm from that account. For Wasso, I spend a couple of hours each day before the timer counts down for the day's placement. I usually can get my daily placement back up to the 3500 - 4500 range. So, the difference is the EFFORT I put into it.

Yes, I am spoiled that I work from home and can have this side monitor going for the game. But, the end result is the same. More Effort = More Rewards. How is that wrong?

Let's hope my Boss isn't turning on that webcam without my knowledge...……….

Player X (GB1) · 26.06.2019

Wasso (INT3) said:
For Wasso, I spend a couple of hours each day before the timer counts down for the day's placement. I usually can get my daily placement back up to the 3500 - 4500 range.

I understand your point Wasso, I didn't mean to insult you. What I'm trying to stress though is that Outer Realms is very boring, as illustrated by the following comment:

Herveus (AU1) said:
I can tell you I do not enjoy playing outer realms I spend less than 2 hours total there and no money

I simply believe Goodgame Empire should liven up Outers so players like me who find it rather unenjoyable won't enter it simply out of necessity and it being the main way of building greenhouses. This brings me back to my initial point: either Outers should be improved so we don't have to bore ourselves to obtain tokens or the tokens should be implemented as rewards in other events etc.

Please believe me when I say I fully respect and value similar points to those that Wasso has made but I believe nobody can deny that the highly preferable option would be the one I have suggested concerning Outers and the availabilty of tokens.

Wasso (INT3) · 26.06.2019

Player X (GB1) said:
Please believe me when I say I fully respect and value similar points to those that Wasso has made but I believe nobody can deny that the highly preferable option would be the one I have suggested concerning Outers and the availabilty of tokens.

Agreed as well @Player X (GB1) There is but ONE major fly in the ointment, as it were...…. the major Ruby Buyers are very active in the Outers. As long as they are dropping the cash, there will be no changes...…….

Player X (GB1) · 26.06.2019

Thanks Wasso

Please could everyone spread the word of this thread to their friends and acquaintances in GGE so more people can post their opinions? The more people on here will increase the chance of GGE actually heeding our request.

THE CRUNCHER (GB1) · 27.06.2019

Man, anyone who thinks the rate we're getting tokens is fair is deluded. No offence intended.

Wasso (INT3) said:
There is but ONE major fly in the ointment, as it were...….

ONE fly in the ointment??!! You mean apart from the countless other major ones? For starters, O/R is only entered for the rewards and is never enjoyed by any good player. Next, no events exist there, almost impossible to build up lots of men. The list goes on, but I'll try not to bore you.

The simple fact is, O/R is a failure and the only way to get relic tokens is to engage in the boredom of O/R. Here's hoping GGE improves it quickly.

Wasso (INT3) · 27.06.2019

THE CRUNCHER (GB1) said:

For starters, O/R is only entered for the rewards and is never enjoyed by any good player. Next, no events exist there, almost impossible to build up lots of men. The list goes on, but I'll try not to bore you.

The simple fact is, O/R is a failure and the only way to get relic tokens is to engage in the boredom of O/R. Here's hoping GGE improves it quickly.

Wait.....wait..... are you saying one of the problems with the Outer Realms EVENT, is that there are no EVENTs in there?

The Outer Realm IS the Event. Should we have a Nomads within Berimond? How about the Foreign Lords in Storm?

Build up lots of men? The Fast Recruitment is on all the time in there. Is a 2000% boost not enough? Right now the Master Attack Strength is also active. You don't think a 230 Melee and a 207 Ranged troop is worth 10 / 9 Rubies respectively? Just by doing the daily tasks you can get 5 of each. Those will rip through 90% of the castles in there. Only a very few put on any type of defense. (and those are the whales who are going to win regardless)

Never enjoyed by any good player...… that is 100% subjective. Some people find INT3 boring due to the lack of Events. Others love it. I only spend a limited amount of time in the Outer Realm. Less by far than I spend in Berimond. I spend just enough effort to get what I want out of it. (of course, I may not qualify as a "good player"...…)

As for it being a failure, again it depends on the definition. Ruby Sales? Likely not a failure. Participation %? Likely not a failure there either. There are over 56,000 people in there. MAYBE they only entered once. But they count.

I DO agree that it would be nice to get the Build/Construction tokens from other sources. But, this IS NOT a difficult way to get them.......

Player X (GB1) · 27.06.2019

Wasso (INT3) said:

Build up lots of men? The Fast Recruitment is on all the time in there. Is a 2000% boost not enough?

The thing is, how are we to get sufficient coins to get sufficient men? It's all very well getting a hundred the first day but they're quickly lost from attacks. 2000% is nice...but useless when all your coins are gone and wasted. That's probably why CRUNCHER suggested events in Outers, as there's no easy way of getting men.

Wasso (INT3) said:
Never enjoyed by any good player...… that is 100% subjective.

It may be subjective but the figures are close to that I'm afraid... I think everyone's entitled to a little exaggeration.

Wasso (INT3) said:
Likely not a failure. Participation %? Likely not a failure there either. There are over 56,000 people in there. MAYBE they only entered once.

56,000 people....and a very, very small percentage are actually active active. Maybe 30%? Unimpressive to say the least.

Availability of Construction & Upgrade tokens

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