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Subjective & Mathematical Feedback towards multiple problematics around the thematic : Food

Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) Posts: 10,654AU1
So I will split this into a few points : 
  • Food Production
  • Food Storage
  • Implactions of them both when combined

1. Food Production

 Food production has been on the rise ever since the introduction of the deco forge allowing players to get public order numbers higher than ever before and it was not long before a lot had over 40k/h and now with the newest addition of the relic greenhouse many have gotten their food production in outposts over 50k /h outers over 40k /h especially in outers in combination with the private ressource villages being better than normal resource villages it has become incredibly easy to even get the weak kingdom, everwinter glacier, over 40 k /h, in additon to the deco forge many aslo have gotten the nature goddes decoration from the khan medal shop multiple times and filled entire castles with it, as have I , which makes being in a good alliance no longer nessecary, as with 30€ and a week of prepation it is possible to get an enite castle worth of them without any support with relative ease, when compared to the amount of effort needed to get a castle filled with decos of 325+ base public order beforehand, and with a higher base public order obviously less usages of the decoration forge are required, for example to get all decos in all castles upgraded once [assuming they are all 330 public order nature godesses], so 3200 Fusion Enegry is needed, a forge level 10 as minimum, and 4 Fusion Coins. Then assuming all base food production build items are level 9 at minimum, events are played somewhat activly, one will have based on optimized setups for that [assuming all other food bonuses like overseer etc are at max as most players have that] and 2 relic greenhouses everywhere, as the top players have that already and most will in a few months
there will be a total of 
Main 36 decorations
Outposts 42 decorations
Outers 43 decoations
so 36 + (43 + 42) x 3 = 291 decos to be upgraded
that means 931200 Fusion Energy needed to upgrade them all, with a deco forge at level 40 [what someone will have by now with decently active eventing] it means we start with 6200 Fusion Enegry and recharge 1550 every 6 hours automatically, we also need 1164 Fusion Coins, but seeing as even I have over 2000 and am not that active of an event player that is not a problem and I also have more than enough catalysts so that factor can also be ignored, so that means
(931200-6200)/1550=~597 recharges
so 597/4=~149 days to upgrade all decos which is not long on a Empire scale and can alternativly be skipped complelty with the usage of rubies for a regular spender.
Now the relic greenhouses are maxed and each have a level 14 base food production build item on them and then a 3rd one is also in every castle on a granary, the rest are level 9 all granaries with base food production build items are at level 30 and the rest are at level 20 and private ressource villages are maxed out everywhere we get the following food productions ( no + 20 public order build items everywhere assumed as well, no subcription nr1 tho) hospital level 6 [40 PO], Construction yard 110 PO, forge & university 205 po each , fire sation level 4 100 po, drill ground level 5 200 po are also factored in for each corresponding castle!

Main Castle : 24420.1
check here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16WgOgBcacmsShMiMpRYqKe9NfmLpfszjtYj6JDW_mUA/edit?usp=sharing
Outpost :  40416.2
check here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bYdNnCJwleUXwYH0o_OmtnG2sitb77IPKg5w4ZHpwD0/edit?usp=sharing
Ice : 38122.4
check here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16PcX4Frl6Jb8c_uoj_XQ3t4gqLZC8KN2EfWDz7Kr-2w/edit?usp=sharing
Sands & Fire : 43761.9
check here : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_77YEpL-gWKGf3DXB2P6WqS8GFiqagUUAih8poqajOA/edit?usp=sharing

Note : This is for relativly new high level accounts meaning 2 - 3 years, older top level accounts would for example in fire peaks be more around 47-50k/h

These Numbers will be used later again.

2.Food Storage

Before build items everyone had the same food storage 81k then when they came around most had  93k and some had 101k, that was not yet too big of a difference, then recently came the subcripton nr2 giving players another 50k storage at their main, not too big of a deal but noticable, then relic greenhouses, another 30k for all castles, and then on top of that the new build items which will be for rubys only and give another 100k, so that means 130k for all castles extra at minimum and another 50k for the main castle so we have

Main : 81k --> 261k
Rest : 81k --> 211k

that is an average increase of ~269%, which is A LOT , to be more reasonable though I will assume subcription nr2 has not been purchased and only level 12 food storage build items [+60k] are in all castles meaning
Everywhere : 81k-->171k

Now what I did not mention yet but is usual for active players, running negatives, meaning having a negative food consumption per hour, I will assume that the player sleeps 8hrs but does not want to instantly wake up and play gge, has market barrow capacity maxed out, no subcription Nr1 (as said earlier in 1.) 15 max towers in every kingdom, no top 100 beri title, no usage of loot commanders, just normal npc commanders like the fortunes of the desert sands.
So the approximated food looted per hit is :
Green 45k
Ice 14k
Sands 20k
Fire 30k

So now I will assume 1 bounce cart per castle, meaning another 39.4k storage, 3 hits with ballast stones per caslte in green, so we have, assuming encampment is maxed [even more now due to last update], 23 commanders left, so I will assign 8 to ice 8 to sands 7 to fire peaks, assuming towers are at distances that allow 1 hit per hour, if not the 200 ruby a hit slowdown cost can be covered by most for that.


So our new storages are
Green : 171k + 3 x 45k + 39.4k = 345.4k
Ice : 171k + 8 x 14k + 39.4k = 322.4k
Sands : 171k + 8 x 20k + 39.4k = 370.4k
Fire : 171k + 7 x 30k + 39.4k= 420.4k

So if we devide each by 9 hours we will have the following negative per castle :

Green : 38.7k 
Ice : 35.8k 
Sands : 41.1k 
Fire : 46.7k

Note : negatives can be higher with higher food storage build items, sending food between outers, using vip comms for more hits over night, loot commanders to loot more per hit on average, berimond loot title, having dead accounts to also hit over night/while at work, that one fills up during the day [all this without even accounting for botting which is against ToS but still done by many]

3. Implecations of both implemented


So if we add that to our Food productions it means a food consumption per castle of :

Main : 63120.1
Outpost : 79116.2
Ice : 73922.4
Sands : 84861.9
Fire : 90461.9

Now I assume that the player has a samurai castellan equipped everywhere and veteran defenders on the wall , which means 375 veteran defenders, and that he uses 50% of his food consumption for defenders and the rest for attackers, which means these are the numbers for each castle [bakery level 8 is assumed, and kingsguards for nomal defenders and rest of attackers coin attackers]

Main : ((63120.1 / 2) - (375 x 4 x 0.6)) / (3 x 0.6) + 375 = ~ 17408 defenders of which 375 are veteran defenders
(63120.1 / 2) / (4 x 0.6) =~ 13150 attackers
Outpost : ((79116.2 / 2) - (375 x 4 x 0.6)) / (3 x 0.6) + 375 =~ 21851 defenders of which 375 are veteran defenders
(79116.2 / 2) / (4 x 0.6) =~ 16482 attackers
Ice : ((73922.4 / 2) - (375 x 4 x 0.6)) / (3 x 0.6) + 375 =~ 20409 defenders of which 375 are veteran defenders
(73922.4 / 2) / (4 x 0.6) =~ 15400 attackers
Sands : ((84861.9 / 2) - (375 x 4 x 0.6)) / (3 x 0.6) + 375 =~ 23447 defenders of which 375 are veteran defenders
(84861.9 / 2) / (4 x 0.6) =~ 17679 attackers
Fire : ((90461.9/ 2) - (375 x 4 x 0.6)) / (3 x 0.6) + 375 =~ 25003 defenders of which 375 are veteran defenders
(90461.9 / 2) / (4 x 0.6) =~ 18846 attackers

So in Total : 
17408 + 21851 x 3 + 20409 + 23447 + 25003 = 151820 defenders of which 2625 are veteran defenders 
13150 + 16482 x 3 + 15400 + 17679 + 18846 = 114521 attackers

Those attackers are enough for 38 full attacks of 3k each, enough to wipe 5 active but not as developed players complelty (meaning ~1m might points) or a whole semi active alliance (for example a 40 memeber 20m might points alliance)

In general these numbers can still be a lot higher for the top percentile of players and are enough to crush even new ll 800 players, and it makes people unbeatable pretty much (assuming most of the alliance is that good) at top level of play, and if someone takes it to the extremere they can keep a lot more defenders (with 101k food storage even I could already keep 20-25k defenders per castle, so now imagine that with higher food production and higher food storage!), even with buying 100k demons you'd not light a fire in a single caslte (assuming even distributions of attacks), and that is before shapeshifter castellans, other ruby castellans, level 15 wall space build items, quicklimes, hall of legends in full defence!

This clearly shows, especially when compared to numbers before those updates and recent top level numbers there is a steep increase [when compared to normal gradual increase of more players simply being more developed], the cliff between the top active players and not so developed players and the rest is getting bigger and bigger and the recent introductions of :

  1. Wall space build items up to level 15
  2. Quicklime bombs
  3. Food Storage Build items over level 7
  4. Encampment level 8 - 12 [tho in my opinion even 21 commanders for pvp is too much]
  5. Relic greenhouse
  6. Shapeshifter Castellan(s)

Things that I suggest :

  1. Intorduce limits for soldiers on the flanks & wall (as they already exist in E4K it should not be hard, never understood why GGE did not get them)
  2. Somehow lower food production for the top levels (meaning less growth starting a certain point, example public order %)
  3. Make a part of the commanders be not useable for pvp (Fl/BC etc. not included there)
  4. No more Quicklime bombs being avaible through any means (cannot leave existing ones due to the quantity in which they are in the game by now, gotta compensate somehow, or buff attack which again would create more problems though)
  5. No more food storage build items (refund everyone their rubies they used to get ones above level 7)
  6. Nerf the god damn Shapeshifter Castellan (this has been said ever sine the first release of it, backed by maths a few times, agreed on by almost everyone, would have been better to never bring it)
  7. Get better servers or optimize the game more (just a handfull of bored players can make a whole server like australia1 lag, or just a big alliance massing another on de1)
  8. Acctualy listen to feedback, revamp old events like thron king bring them, make them attractive, been saying that that is planned for almost a year now.
  9. Reintroduce the closed beta, that was the place where you could get direct feedback on new features before release from qualified players that know a lot about the game, as they were handpicked, and also listen to the players there, it was a great idea but players there (me included as I was one of the few) felt ignored, example private ressource villags we gave a lot of feedback and they came almost 1 to 1 as they were on the closed beta.
  10. Give PvP a reason, events give too much / pvp does not give any long term reward in 99% of all cases
  11. A dynamic PvP System, to adjust for power difference between players at level 70
  12. No Updates for a few months to rewrite the base code so it can be tackled again!
  13. ...
Those are the main points there is a lot more I could say but I will leave it at that for now, and I can write some as long for all of the 6 new introductions, and other problems, but this gotta do for now, now it's your move @Crom Cruach I want ggs says about these issues, if they acknoweldge their existence, what their plan is, I and others gotta know if it is worth to keep playing, as ggs has been unbalancing PvP for years now more and more.
Post edited by Herveus (AU1) on


700k mp level 69 vor dem ersten Rubinkauf!

You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

Comments

  • bernhardt (US1)bernhardt (US1) Posts: 400US1
    Yup, just too damn much food, and these days the food growth is concentrated at the top of the pile...
  • I wish i was as smart as Herv, 
    BIGTtheMULLER @ WWW 1
  • dliu3 (US1)dliu3 (US1) Posts: 158US1
    Wow Herveus, I'm impressed. That is a lot of effort probably you put in and it definitely shows how unbalanced the game is towards ruby players...
    Proud member of Heavens Army on US1!
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) Posts: 10,654AU1
    Wow Herveus, I'm impressed. That is a lot of effort probably you put in and it definitely shows how unbalanced the game is towards ruby players...
    not just the ruby players, the top %, tho that is mostly ruby players and barely any non-ruby players


    700k mp level 69 vor dem ersten Rubinkauf!

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free
  • Honestly, I'm not really that heavy of a ruby buyer anymore (I'll buy an occasional boost), and I'll be around 50k food prod in sands/fire. I can only imagine what the heavy ruby whales can do.
  • Zenzer (GB1)Zenzer (GB1) Posts: 2,580GB1
    edited 20.04.2019
    Those are some crazy numbers.

    "More food storage is something that players like, let's throw in a few higher level build items!" this is pretty much their thought process, just fill the game with a bunch of extras without thinking of the consequences. 

    Although, the fact that the developers don't know what they're doing is nothing new, there is not much thought put into the changes they make. 

    I'd also like to add something more along with the things that was already suggested above, which is how the game is getting more and more sophisticated.

    Back in the older days the game was quite simple and straightforward. Now today we have tons of different currencies which all do separate things, a ton of different in-game items, a ton of different unique tools and troops, tons of new systems that a lot of people don't even understand how they work (decoration fusion forge) and they just keep adding more and more. Just recently they added a ton of new armorer tools that we don't need. 

    Keep the game simple and straightfoward as it once was, pumping the game with a bunch of new things and items doesn't necessarily make it a better game. Instead, work on and implement the things that actually matter. The fact that many players are even having problems understanding the game and all these things is bad enough. 

    Otherwise great thread, i agree with all the points brought up, it's really something that should be looked into.
    @Crom Cruach


    No, i don't play on GB1. 


  • Those are some crazy numbers.

    "More food storage is something that players like, let's throw in a few higher level build items!" this is pretty much their thought process, just fill the game with a bunch of extras without thinking of the consequences. 

    Although, the fact that the developers don't know what they're doing is nothing new, there is not much thought put into the changes they make. 

    I'd also like to add something more along with the things that was already suggested above, which is how the game is getting more and more sophisticated.

    Back in the older days the game was quite simple and straightforward. Now today we have tons of different currencies which all do separate things, a ton of different in-game items, a ton of different unique tools and troops, tons of new systems that a lot of people don't even understand how they work (decoration fusion forge) and they just keep adding more and more. Just recently they added a ton of new armorer tools that we don't need. 

    Keep the game simple and straightfoward as it once was, pumping the game with a bunch of new things and items doesn't necessarily make it a better game. Instead, work on and implement the things that actually matter. The fact that many players are even having problems understanding the game and all these things is bad enough. 

    Otherwise great thread, i agree with all the points brought up, it's really something that should be looked into.
    @Crom Cruach
    You mean things like:

    - Espy reports disappearing for no reason
    - Buildings temporarily disappearing when upgrading 
    - Horrible lag due to HTML 5
    - Rebalancing free comms/casts so free players have a reason to play
    - Fixing Outer Realms
    - Making beri possible to finish

  • - Making beri possible to finish
    The reason they don't do this is some servers *COUGH* DE1 *COUGH* finish beri like 2 days in consistently
    Friedrich IV US1
    The Prodigal Scrub Returns
  • Crom CruachCrom Cruach Posts: 185Community Manager
    edited 23.04.2019
    @Herveus (AU1) I needed a second coffee to get through that. What a post! If I'd a prize to give for that I would.

    Now there is little I can do to fix the perceived problems. I'm not a Game Designer nor a Game Developer. What I can do and what I will do is get the questions here to the Game Team. Feedback like this is great and they will take it on board at a minimum. 


  • bummer (NL1)bummer (NL1) Posts: 159NL1
    edited 12.05.2019
    @Herveus (AU1) I needed a second coffee to get through that. What a post! If I'd a prize to give for that I would.

    Now there is little I can do to fix the perceived problems. I'm not a Game Designer nor a Game Developer. What I can do and what I will do is get the questions here to the Game Team. Feedback like this is great and they will take it on board at a minimum. 


    I say nothing more then why have all food producing buildings in all castle a negative workload,
    This great calculations has no value at all as there is no certainty that the figures are right. It may be depending on how many rubies you spend, but this bug last for over a week now

  • Crom CruachCrom Cruach Posts: 185Community Manager
    Yes it has, its sadly not one that is easily fixed. We pushed out some fixes yesterday, the 14th, but the team weren't finished with the food issue and we didn't want to delay in getting the other issues dealt with.

  • bummer (NL1)bummer (NL1) Posts: 159NL1
    Is it not sad to see How  many bug fixes are pushed out on the 14th of march, I take even that to be a slip of the pen but forgiven, and maybe a few are fixed, but for sure not all "fixed" are fixed.
    My point here is how can a game have so many bugs that need to be fixed and those numbers are only increasing after every bug-fix or attempt to the implementation of a new feature that has not been asked for in the first place.
    In my opinion there is something structurally very wrong in the development department as they are unable to rewrite a much asked for, broken part of the game, but are obvious also having big problems in writing new unasked for items.
    I will repeat it again, these are the symptoms of dying games, implementation of many currency demanding features, working or not, as long as they bring income its ok. Absolutely no maintenance of the game, what gets broken stays broken, just bring more useless stuff,  new look items every month that are doing nothing that take a lot of money and are easy to "program" , every 6yo can do that, and try to hide the failing game with more useless features.
    @ Crom Cruach , pass my worries on to the develop-team and we will see if the are going to work more serious on our problem, there are already to many ruins on the map.

  • Yes it has, its sadly not one that is easily fixed. We pushed out some fixes yesterday, the 14th, but the team weren't finished with the food issue and we didn't want to delay in getting the other issues dealt with.

    give @Herveus (AU1) some free rubies or something! I know others who have had prises for helping debug gge nonsense.
    King The Torrent The Furious, 348k Might, level Legendary 49 (as of 10.4.18) 
    Like 600k might when fully active fearless and all the cherries now (4 November) but tbh not too active nowadays.
    GB1 Private Detective ;) - message me in game for your information needs.
    Discord - The Torrent#5588
    You spend money on this game. | You don't spend money on this game.
  • Thorten (US1)Thorten (US1) Posts: 73US1
    The most important .... and rarely spoken  of  ... issue with the game is this.   It has stopped being much fun. 

    It takes a lot of time to play this game and most people ( competitive or otherwise) play games like this to have fun. 

    But when you begin to believe you are fighting more against what the game is doing to you than advancing your progress....you begin to admit to yourself you are not having fun. You still enjoy the company of your alliance mates and others you have formed friendships with over the years. And that keeps you in the game for a while longer. But you are not having fun like you used to. 

    Playing a broken game, with little hope of permanent improvement on the horizon, is definitely taking it's toll.  It has gone on too long.  The map speaks for itself.  And from what I read here, it has nothing to do with what server you play on. 
    Thorten @ usa 1
  • bummer (NL1)bummer (NL1) Posts: 159NL1
    Its a war game, but the war has moved from the game to being on the game in the first place and the a war is now against the bugs and finding a way around the bugs.

    @ Crom Cruach
    Now with the food bug, In my debugging days you went back to what has changed before and after the bug occurred, then you dug through the changes to find a possible relation with the bug. It cannot be hard to find the cause of a bug, a solution may be a bit harder.
    For one thing we are sure its not food related as it affects all production, including wood and stone, I did not check foreign resources, it may or may not affect charcoal, oil glass and iron too.
    For some obscure reason the workload is set to -1% for all buildings, why does that happen?
    for the next obscure reason if you "tamper" build items of any production building in the castle it seems all to go back to normal, but only in that castle.
    But, and there must be the location of the bug, for some odd reason the -1% returns after some time, a scheduled recalculation of production routine?
    also odd and a possible trace to finding the problem is that the "tamper" only works in the castle where you change a build item.
    This analysis is free, hope the team can use it.
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