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SHOULD GGS RESPECT THEIR OWN RULES?

2

Comments

  • BIGTtheMULLER (INT1)BIGTtheMULLER (INT1) INT1 Posts: 2,141
    Not gonna be a judge here , but what i like to know if you were caught once for what ever reasons , why would you take the chance again and again, seem like playing russian roulette. Just speechless. But i honestly believe GGE are far from being perfect. and they hold all the aces , and if you do not like it beat it, in the 21st century be the first to be fair and honest to all that play this game.
    BIGTtheMULLER @ WWW 1
  • PJH_ (GB1)PJH_ (GB1) GB1 Posts: 352
    We've got 4k active on GB1?... that's only the second less believable statement on this thread.....
    based on looting from last month ! used to be well over 20k when i started nearly 6 years ago !
    really..... well mid week and only 3k so far which is more what I thought we were down to.....

    I'll admit that there's probably a life cycle and as the number of people try it and reject it, the pool of possibles goes down.... but seems pretty dire.

    Also I'd suspect it is more than 0.1% that aren't complying with ToS :)
  • Rules tend to "morph" depending on spending of player...
    Quit cheating and good luck building a new account from scratch lol. Maybe this time you have learned your lesson.

    Also thanks for all the rv's for our sub alliance  :)

    You welcome. Most of them were already taken by my alliance anyways. I did learn a lesson. Not gonna build account from scratch lol
  • Lady Nym (US1)Lady Nym (US1) US1 Posts: 398
    Rules tend to "morph" depending on spending of player...
    Quit cheating and good luck building a new account from scratch lol. Maybe this time you have learned your lesson.

    Also thanks for all the rv's for our sub alliance  :)

    You welcome. Most of them were already taken by my alliance anyways. I did learn a lesson. Not gonna build account from scratch lol
    Does it sound like what i think it sounds like?
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,032
    Rules tend to "morph" depending on spending of player...
    Quit cheating and good luck building a new account from scratch lol. Maybe this time you have learned your lesson.

    Also thanks for all the rv's for our sub alliance  :)

    You welcome. Most of them were already taken by my alliance anyways. I did learn a lesson. Not gonna build account from scratch lol
    Does it sound like what i think it sounds like?
    it sure does

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
  • A.J.S (INT3)A.J.S (INT3) INT3 Posts: 180
    edited 13.12.2018
    Are you telling me that rules stated here:

    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/331016/customer-service-info-about-ban-times/p1

    are not valid anymore?

    Where can I read statement confirming that?
    not valid anymore email was sent out about their new ToS in May and those applied to the ones before may 
    tho the ones there are what is mostly still used

    here is the servers I checked and I found 23 of the 24 permabans
    de1 = germany1 / deutschland1 
    uk1= united kingom1 / vereinigtes königreich1
    int1 = international 1
    int2 = international 2
    br1 = brasil1 / brazilien1
    es1&2 = spain1&2 / spanien1&2
    pl1 = poland1 / polen1
    in1 = inda1 / indien1 (keine permabans)
    aus1 = australia1 / australien 1 (keine permabans, gut 2 dutzend temp bans anhand mp gesehen)
    cn1 = china1 (keine permabans)
    asia1 = asia1 / asien1 (keine permabans)

    1.Schneeleopard (de1)
    2. Der rote Baron (de1)
    3. leonmoeller (de1)
    4, Inmi (de1)
    5. Clumsycookie (de1)
    6, Braunau (de1)
    7. cetin-pasa (de1)
    8. Hertzilein (de1)
    9. Ankylors (de1)
    10. biggestlooser (de1)
    11. hellas888 (de1)
    12. thaw00 (uk1)
    13. ITAY10 (int1)
    14. esa2 (uk1)
    15. King Vlad (uk1)
    16. Stonedigger (uk1)
    17. Yoglesby (us1)
    18. NoPainNoGainFTW (us1)
    19. silbrman (us1)
    20. Event (int2)
    21. Dalto III (br1)
    22. ManuGamer (es1)
    23. kiletor (pl1)

    of the de1 playeers all are known whales int1 as well uk1 2 of them br1 and es1 as well
    so whales were not left out
    of those 23 I know about 13 of them acctualy using bots and having admittd it
    do not know the 9 others
    so you being the one of the 14 I know that got permabanned that did not admitt it hmm suspiscous
    at least the ones from de1 admitted it 
    Not related to this thread but i dont beleive for one second gge bans whales and i have proof too.
    Post edited by BM Neroxnex on
    Just playing for the fun of burning others  :p
  • edited 13.12.2018
    Are you telling me that rules stated here:

    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/331016/customer-service-info-about-ban-times/p1

    are not valid anymore?

    Where can I read statement confirming that?
    not valid anymore email was sent out about their new ToS in May and those applied to the ones before may 
    tho the ones there are what is mostly still used

    here is the servers I checked and I found 23 of the 24 permabans
    de1 = germany1 / deutschland1 
    uk1= united kingom1 / vereinigtes königreich1
    int1 = international 1
    int2 = international 2
    br1 = brasil1 / brazilien1
    es1&2 = spain1&2 / spanien1&2
    pl1 = poland1 / polen1
    in1 = inda1 / indien1 (keine permabans)
    aus1 = australia1 / australien 1 (keine permabans, gut 2 dutzend temp bans anhand mp gesehen)
    cn1 = china1 (keine permabans)
    asia1 = asia1 / asien1 (keine permabans)

    1.Schneeleopard (de1)
    2. Der rote Baron (de1)
    3. leonmoeller (de1)
    4, Inmi (de1)
    5. Clumsycookie (de1)
    6, Braunau (de1)
    7. cetin-pasa (de1)
    8. Hertzilein (de1)
    9. Ankylors (de1)
    10. biggestlooser (de1)
    11. hellas888 (de1)
    12. thaw00 (uk1)
    13. ITAY10 (int1)
    14. esa2 (uk1)
    15. King Vlad (uk1)
    16. Stonedigger (uk1)
    17. Yoglesby (us1)
    18. NoPainNoGainFTW (us1)
    19. silbrman (us1)
    20. Event (int2)
    21. Dalto III (br1)
    22. ManuGamer (es1)
    23. kiletor (pl1)

    of the de1 playeers all are known whales int1 as well uk1 2 of them br1 and es1 as well
    so whales were not left out
    of those 23 I know about 13 of them acctualy using bots and having admittd it
    do not know the 9 others
    so you being the one of the 14 I know that got permabanned that did not admitt it hmm suspiscous
    at least the ones from de1 admitted it 
    Not related to this thread but i dont beleive for one fucking second gge bans whales and i have proof too.
    Check this thread title again. I believe it is related.
    They suspended 24 players from how many servers? How many active accounts?
    As I stated already if you are big whale, rules don't apply to you.
  • BIGTtheMULLER (INT1)BIGTtheMULLER (INT1) INT1 Posts: 2,141
    I can veryfy that ITAY10 on my server is was a ruby whale
    BIGTtheMULLER @ WWW 1
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,032
    Are you telling me that rules stated here:

    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/331016/customer-service-info-about-ban-times/p1

    are not valid anymore?

    Where can I read statement confirming that?
    not valid anymore email was sent out about their new ToS in May and those applied to the ones before may 
    tho the ones there are what is mostly still used

    here is the servers I checked and I found 23 of the 24 permabans
    de1 = germany1 / deutschland1 
    uk1= united kingom1 / vereinigtes königreich1
    int1 = international 1
    int2 = international 2
    br1 = brasil1 / brazilien1
    es1&2 = spain1&2 / spanien1&2
    pl1 = poland1 / polen1
    in1 = inda1 / indien1 (keine permabans)
    aus1 = australia1 / australien 1 (keine permabans, gut 2 dutzend temp bans anhand mp gesehen)
    cn1 = china1 (keine permabans)
    asia1 = asia1 / asien1 (keine permabans)

    1.Schneeleopard (de1)
    2. Der rote Baron (de1)
    3. leonmoeller (de1)
    4, Inmi75 (de1)
    5. Clumsycookie (de1)
    6, Braunau (de1)
    7. cetin-pasa (de1)
    8. Hertzilein (de1)
    9. Ankylos (de1)
    10. biggestlooser (de1)
    11. hellas888 (de1)
    12. thaw00 (uk1)
    13. ITAY10 (int1)
    14. esa2 (uk1)
    15. King Vlad (uk1)
    16. Stonedigger (uk1)
    17. Yoglesby (us1)
    18. NoPainNoGainFTW (us1)
    19. silbrman (us1)
    20. Event (int2)
    21. Dalto III (br1)
    22. ManuGamer (es1)
    23. kiletor (pl1)

    of the de1 playeers all are known whales int1 as well uk1 2 of them br1 and es1 as well
    so whales were not left out
    of those 23 I know about 13 of them acctualy using bots and having admittd it
    do not know the 9 others
    so you being the one of the 14 I know that got permabanned that did not admitt it hmm suspiscous
    at least the ones from de1 admitted it 
    Not related to this thread but i dont beleive for one fucking second gge bans whales and i have proof too.





    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
  • edited 13.12.2018
    That's two of how many?
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,032
    edited 13.12.2018
    That's two of how many?
    look at the top for the castle names that is 9 of the 11 I checked for that

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
  • When have GGS ever cared really about their users.
    They haven't , this is one of numerous deterrents they do need. 
    If you use the general play unfair get punished rule - Then this is unfair and punishment is the result.
    Also 'trying to even the playing field' just doesn't work , been there done that got the e-mail to prove it (Framed on my wall).

    I WILL SAY THIS THOUGH.
    Please count me in for the next ban wave!

    The Mrs will appreciate it.

    Thanks

    ~Ultra
    Disclaimer:
    Everything I say is strictly personal opinion and not in relation to my alliance or affiliates.

    Ultra - First and Last.
    Back to Break Some Balls - You Miss Me ?
    Poking the bear since 2013.
  • Are you telling me that rules stated here:

    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/331016/customer-service-info-about-ban-times/p1

    are not valid anymore?

    Where can I read statement confirming that?
    not valid anymore email was sent out about their new ToS in May and those applied to the ones before may 
    tho the ones there are what is mostly still used

    here is the servers I checked and I found 23 of the 24 permabans
    de1 = germany1 / deutschland1 
    uk1= united kingom1 / vereinigtes königreich1
    int1 = international 1
    int2 = international 2
    br1 = brasil1 / brazilien1
    es1&2 = spain1&2 / spanien1&2
    pl1 = poland1 / polen1
    in1 = inda1 / indien1 (keine permabans)
    aus1 = australia1 / australien 1 (keine permabans, gut 2 dutzend temp bans anhand mp gesehen)
    cn1 = china1 (keine permabans)
    asia1 = asia1 / asien1 (keine permabans)

    1.Schneeleopard (de1)
    2. Der rote Baron (de1)
    3. leonmoeller (de1)
    4, Inmi (de1)
    5. Clumsycookie (de1)
    6, Braunau (de1)
    7. cetin-pasa (de1)
    8. Hertzilein (de1)
    9. Ankylors (de1)
    10. biggestlooser (de1)
    11. hellas888 (de1)
    12. thaw00 (uk1)
    13. ITAY10 (int1)
    14. esa2 (uk1)
    15. King Vlad (uk1)
    16. Stonedigger (uk1)
    17. Yoglesby (us1)
    18. NoPainNoGainFTW (us1)
    19. silbrman (us1)
    20. Event (int2)
    21. Dalto III (br1)
    22. ManuGamer (es1)
    23. kiletor (pl1)

    of the de1 playeers all are known whales int1 as well uk1 2 of them br1 and es1 as well
    so whales were not left out
    of those 23 I know about 13 of them acctualy using bots and having admittd it
    do not know the 9 others
    so you being the one of the 14 I know that got permabanned that did not admitt it hmm suspiscous
    at least the ones from de1 admitted it 
    Not related to this thread but i dont beleive for one fucking second gge bans whales and i have proof too.
    esa2 (UK1) is a ruby whale and also a metro holder

    The Devil
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,032
    Are you telling me that rules stated here:

    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/en/discussion/331016/customer-service-info-about-ban-times/p1

    are not valid anymore?

    Where can I read statement confirming that?
    not valid anymore email was sent out about their new ToS in May and those applied to the ones before may 
    tho the ones there are what is mostly still used

    here is the servers I checked and I found 23 of the 24 permabans
    de1 = germany1 / deutschland1 
    uk1= united kingom1 / vereinigtes königreich1
    int1 = international 1
    int2 = international 2
    br1 = brasil1 / brazilien1
    es1&2 = spain1&2 / spanien1&2
    pl1 = poland1 / polen1
    in1 = inda1 / indien1 (keine permabans)
    aus1 = australia1 / australien 1 (keine permabans, gut 2 dutzend temp bans anhand mp gesehen)
    cn1 = china1 (keine permabans)
    asia1 = asia1 / asien1 (keine permabans)

    1.Schneeleopard (de1)
    2. Der rote Baron (de1)
    3. leonmoeller (de1)
    4, Inmi (de1)
    5. Clumsycookie (de1)
    6, Braunau (de1)
    7. cetin-pasa (de1)
    8. Hertzilein (de1)
    9. Ankylors (de1)
    10. biggestlooser (de1)
    11. hellas888 (de1)
    12. thaw00 (uk1)
    13. ITAY10 (int1)
    14. esa2 (uk1)
    15. King Vlad (uk1)
    16. Stonedigger (uk1)
    17. Yoglesby (us1)
    18. NoPainNoGainFTW (us1)
    19. silbrman (us1)
    20. Event (int2)
    21. Dalto III (br1)
    22. ManuGamer (es1)
    23. kiletor (pl1)

    of the de1 playeers all are known whales int1 as well uk1 2 of them br1 and es1 as well
    so whales were not left out
    of those 23 I know about 13 of them acctualy using bots and having admittd it
    do not know the 9 others
    so you being the one of the 14 I know that got permabanned that did not admitt it hmm suspiscous
    at least the ones from de1 admitted it 
    Not related to this thread but i dont beleive for one fucking second gge bans whales and i have proof too.
    esa2 (UK1) is a ruby whale and also a metro holder
    biggestlooser and hella888 also HAD metros tho they are capped now

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
  • Rules tend to "morph" depending on spending of player...
    Quit cheating and good luck building a new account from scratch lol. Maybe this time you have learned your lesson.

    Also thanks for all the rv's for our sub alliance  :)

    You welcome. Most of them were already taken by my alliance anyways. I did learn a lesson. Not gonna build account from scratch lol
    Does it sound like what i think it sounds like?
    it sure does
    Well, I can't get second Ivory Pawn now, do I?
    The fact is that every serious player is sharing their password regardless of ToS. You need to sleep and if you don't share your password, you will burn.
    I decided long time ago to not share my pass (check my OP names) and burned multiple times because of that decision.
    Lot of strong players is abandoning this game realizing how flawed it is leaving their accs to allies. 
    I chose not to waste any more of my time on this castle clicker.

    Have a nice life everyone!
  • Rules tend to "morph" depending on spending of player...
    Quit cheating and good luck building a new account from scratch lol. Maybe this time you have learned your lesson.

    Also thanks for all the rv's for our sub alliance  :)

    You welcome. Most of them were already taken by my alliance anyways. I did learn a lesson. Not gonna build account from scratch lol
    Does it sound like what i think it sounds like?
    it sure does
    Well, I can't get second Ivory Pawn now, do I?
    The fact is that every serious player is sharing their password regardless of ToS. You need to sleep and if you don't share your password, you will burn.
    I decided long time ago to not share my pass (check my OP names) and burned multiple times because of that decision.
    Lot of strong players is abandoning this game realizing how flawed it is leaving their accs to allies. 
    I chose not to waste any more of my time on this castle clicker.

    Have a nice life everyone!
    You do have a point there. It clearly still happens 
    Its a lot easier to spot 'botting' how ever there are still suspect accounts on servers not banned.

    I have never shared my password with anyone. Just my Phone number ( Which the Mrs did not appreciate). A lot harder to track with all the current means of accessing the game. ie Phone/Laptop/work/friends.

    Would not surprise me if a mistake has been made though. Its GoodGame Studios after all.
    100% Fail since 2013.

    ~Ultra
    Disclaimer:
    Everything I say is strictly personal opinion and not in relation to my alliance or affiliates.

    Ultra - First and Last.
    Back to Break Some Balls - You Miss Me ?
    Poking the bear since 2013.
  • Hey guys, I'm keeping this thread open because I believe it is important to discuss things of this nature and all of you are doing a good job (so far) at keeping the thread on topic. However, I do kindly ask we refrain from naming and shaming players that we're "assuming" were banned. See the guidelines related to that linked above if you're unsure what that means. Otherwise, that's all from me for now.
  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,104
    This whole area essential remains a real mess.  My understanding is GGE had specific software in place to track Bot use.  Yet reading what No Pain No Gain wrote the implication is he or she was banned because of a report from another player in which case the bot tracking software clearly didn't work.  So it would help to know whether GGE just gathered up player reports over time and attacked on them or did the system pick them up.  Last time this happened there were some pretty scary statistics about the level of bot use so some context would help players to better understand what is going on. 

    No Pain No Gain does appear to me to have a point from a process perspective GGE set out clear rules in terms of first offence, second offence, third offence etc and in the case of the player starting the thread appears not to have followed their own rules.  If GGE didn't follow the rules they set out then personally I'd expect to see that players account reinstated.  The whole point of enforcing rules is that you are consistent and apply them equally, based on the information we have that clearly didn't happen so GGE either need to rebutt or reinstate otherwise we can have no faith that when they occasionally decide to enforce their own rules that they won't just make them up as they are going along.  This type of inconsistency or simple ineptitude undermines further the little remaining faith there is in the integrity of GGE and their system.  

    I would never condone cheating but selectively applying rules at convenient points works for no-one there shouldn't be sudden clumps of bans the bans should be happening on a rolling basis.  To use sport as an analogy you don't have no red cards between August and September and then fifty red cards in the first set of matches in December.  To be blunt the process is badly flawed and without GGE being transparent and open to external scrutiny then there is no guarantee that any process was followed or that it was applied consistently.  We are asked to take on faith what we are told with no supporting evidence or fact.  The evidence I have seen in my time in the game is that for all of the time I've played GGE sets out terms and conditions - game rules - which it cannot or selectively chooses not to enforce.  This basic failure creates inequality between alliances and players and promotes the type of systemic cheating outlined so effectively in a book called Freakonomics (sections around teachers in Chicago fixed their classes test score and the section about why some people took bagels without paying for them whilst others always pay. In short GGE have quite openly in their economic approach and non existence approach to upholding their rules incentivised cheating.  Honest players have always played at a signifcant disadvantage.  It has been clear for some time that talented as we are we cannot work around that disadvantage now or perhaps more telling no longer are motivated to do so.    

    The complete lack of understanding of how the game works is remarkable and is openly displayed in this thread.  So you ban player A for bot use on account A player A also has the password for and control of account B, account C and account D.  Player A jumps to account B and continutes playing uneffected though slightly inconvenineced.  Or perhaps it's this familiar favourite Player A is locked out of account A so his alliance arranges for him to take the keys for account z in another alliance kicking out the original owner who used to play with them.  Alternatively through door C we find Player A purchasing Account X through a skype chatroom they are still in.  These aren't made up scenarios this is how it works.  

    If GGE are serious about enforcing the rules and making the game playable then they have to better understand the entire systemic system of cheating and tackle it as a system attacking all parts of it to rip out the roots rather than just pruning it and allowing it to grow back.  It like the drug trade the Police developed infra red technology to identify houses been used to grow large amounts of drug crops by heat signature using helicopters.  They communicated it so the drug dealers simply split the crops up and you now have young kids in deprived neighbourhoods with two or three plants in their houses.  GGE approach is to pick up these few kids when the more effective technique is to work your way back up the chain to take out those coordinating the approach.  The dealers spread the risk and consequently a few might get caught but more gain significant benefit and not having got caught grow more confident and commit bigger crimes.  Cheating is GGE has been allowed to become an embedded culture to the point where it is accepted by signficant percentage of players though not all.  You have to tackle that culture of silence of acceptance rewarding those who stand against it, strengthening them and communicating to them how doing the right thing does a difference.  This announcement simply says we aren't making as much as we like so we'll throw you a bone and try and mask the fact we've lost control of our game to the point where we can't guarantee the integrity of any our event results.

    You cannot tackle bots without tackling the culture of cheating that inspires their use.  If you don't roll up the connected network of accounts and alliance support that makes that cheating possible then you are not in any real sense tackling the problem you are just momentarily disrupting it.  The Police in the UK currently lack the resource to tackle crime but they work hard to involve the public in tackling the problem but they try really hard to be incredibly disruptive where they lack the funding to eradicate an issue.  GGE need to remove inactive accounts more quickly to reduce the number accounts available for misuse.  They need to put a clearer system in place for account purchase and transfer that they control.  They need to improve password security and force passwords to be changed monthly.  They need to penalise alliances and alliance leaders whose players cheat.  And they need to make the disincentives significantly more painful in playing terms, Event suspensions loss of VIP levels.  

    The other thing that is never address is reparation for damage done to other players or alliances resulting from the act of cheating.  If these players were position above in an event and were cheating and were caught it doesn't give you back the prize you lost as a result of their cheating, cheating that was probably going on for 60 days 100 days before they were caught on day 101.  We get nothing back from them being caught finally to replace what we as honest players have collectively lost to players who shouldn't have been playing under GGE rules.  These aren't victimless crimes if these players sniped out 10,000 bought horrors can those players now claim reimbursement?  GGE by acting inconsistently and irregularly or simply failing to communicate that they are acting are an accessory to the fraud these players perpetrate they enable it and have over a long time.  

    Addressing a culture of cheating within your game requires more than putting a sticking plaster on a gunshot wound, the response and work involved is complex and the attempt is appreciated but it is insufficient and inadequate in the context of the scale of the problem and the poisonous environment that's evolved in which it is increasingly difficult to play.  

    The lack of response and silence from top alliances and top players eloquently speaks volumes.  




    Batten @ en 1
  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,104
    The key thing I'm trying to get across is that we as players need to be looking past the fact that a few people got caught to consider how long were they actually cheating for before they got caught and what was the impact of their cheating on our accounts, our performance, our opportunities to improve, wars we lost, attacks we lost.  These are command centre holders so their alliances benefitted from significant extra food from those metros which meant their alliance benefitted from their cheating how will those alliances now be punished to level the scale.  Did those alliances know they were cheating did they benefit how will that benefit be addressed?  A brief we caught six people whilst 300 benefitted doesn't soften the blow of having had to work five times as hard to achieve the same result.  
    Batten @ en 1
  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) AU1 Posts: 11,032
    The key thing I'm trying to get across is that we as players need to be looking past the fact that a few people got caught to consider how long were they actually cheating for before they got caught and what was the impact of their cheating on our accounts, our performance, our opportunities to improve, wars we lost, attacks we lost.  These are command centre holders so their alliances benefitted from significant extra food from those metros which meant their alliance benefitted from their cheating how will those alliances now be punished to level the scale.  Did those alliances know they were cheating did they benefit how will that benefit be addressed?  A brief we caught six people whilst 300 benefitted doesn't soften the blow of having had to work five times as hard to achieve the same result.  
    true I did the maths, people using bots got 500m-1.5 billion coins  (after subtracting tool cost etc.) in the last 6 weeks I will need till march or so next year to make that up, a 12 hour ban does not make up for that 

    You need or want help to become a better player shoot me a message in the forums or here I'll gladly help you out for free

    In h
    ibernation nov2019-now
This discussion has been closed.