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private message censorship inconsistent with GGE help language

I have tried to talk about my soldiers being "killed" in private messages to other players only to have the mail system pop up a message telling me I had used inappropriate language, that kill (or killed) cannot be used. 

However in the section on the Military Hospital in the Game Help, I read the following:

"Units are not killed immediately in battles, but are initially only wounded."

I can understand GGE forbidding the use of certain "swear words", i.e. words traditionally considered vulgar or insulting. But the word kill is not such a word. And in a game involving soldiers battling each other, the subject of killing naturally arises. There is nothing racially insensitive about the words "kill", "killed", "killing" etc. 
And it is hypocritical for GGE to ban these words while using the word "killed" themselves in the game help section. 

It really makes me wonder what kind of people are running the game. Did Good Game Studios hire some super sensitive snowflakes as monitors?

Comments

  • That seems wrong indeed. If they use it, when can't we use it?

    Fighting someone means men are going to die, and because someone else makes them dead we talk about kill. Is that so wrong or strange?

    Hello everyone!

    Good to see you. I'm Lucas from the dutch server (NL1) and i play in an amazing Alliance called Two Towers. I really enjoy playing the game. If you want to make contact with me leave a message here or if you are from the dutch server message me there!

    Kind regards Lucas1999



  • Hello Lucas,

    Yes I view the issue the same as you do. Someone at GGE who set the language filter on the private messages must have a mental defect of some sort. 
  • Venom (ASIA1)Venom (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,232
    Replace on of the L's with a capital I, looks the exact same in game.

    Personal am all for the censorship, doesn't give a good outlook without it, even though it is easy to get around.
    Venom @ Asia - Member for Drunken Fist
    Venom @ Australia - War Marshal for Shadow Lords!!

    Best player on the test server B)

  • Replace on of the L's with a capital I, looks the exact same in game.

    Personal am all for the censorship, doesn't give a good outlook without it, even though it is easy to get around.
    That is a good workaround. I will use it. 

    But I am against the censorship. What do you mean by "doesn't give a good outlook without it"?  I am not sure what you're saying. 

    I am fine with them censoring racial slurs, and foul language. But banning ordinary words is beyond senseless. It inhibits normal conversation.
    What is the point in banning the word "kill" (especially when they use it themselves, isn't that a bit paternalistic?) 
    What is the rationale? Is it because they think it denotes violence? That makes no sense, in a game about soldiers fighting battles. 
    In fact, if they are going to ban normal words like kill, what's to stop them banning words like "fight", or "battle", or "attack"? These words denote violence as well. 
  • overlord90098 (GB1)overlord90098 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,798
    soon they ban words like dog and useless because can't say those 
    overlord90098 @ en 1
    Level 70 non ruby-buyer 
    General of DEFA1
    RIP Rulermichael1 


    Okay, listen, we should get our stories straight, alright? If anyone asks -- and no one's gonna ask, don't worry -- but if anyone asks, tell them as far as you know, the last time you checked, everyone looked pretty much alive. Alright? Not dead.

    Nobody is going to space, mate!
    Marie Curie invented the theory of radioactivity, the treatment of radioactivity, and dying of radioactivity. In Victorian England, a commoner was not allowed to look directly at the Queen, due to a belief at the time that the poor had the ability to steal thoughts. Science now believes that less than 4% of poor people are able to do this.

    "Starting now, if I'm honest, to wonder if you're doing all this screen-breaking on purpose. Beginning to actually take it personally. You know what I mean? Like, it's like an insult to me.""Ohh...! There goes another one. There goes another one. They're not inexpensive. I'd just like to point that out. Um, it seems... unfair, y'know, smashing screens. You could give them to people. Instead of smashing them, unscrew them and, and give them to like a homeless person, I don't know what a homeless person would do, but uh, you get my point. It just seems... and you can't unscrew them either, they're bolted in, but... auh, just stop it!!"
    "No, seriously. Do come back. Come back, please."
    "Okay, I've decided not to kill you. IF you come back."
    "Aw. Just thinking back to the old days when we were friends. Good old friends. Not enemies. And I'd say something like 'come back', and you'd be like 'no problem!' And you'd come back. What happened to those days?"
    "Can't help but notice you're not coming back. Which is disappointing."
    "Oo! I've got an idea!"
    "YES YES! IN YOUR FACE! I GOT YO-ah, nope."
    "Fine. Let the games begin."
  • I can't describe myself.

    "Gay" isn't allowed.

    Apparently I'm "g4y."

      


  • I can't describe myself.

    "Gay" isn't allowed.

    Apparently I'm "g4y."
    Are you serious? That is just bizarre. Who are these people?

    Presumably they are worried that someone will use the word gay as a pejorative so they ban it to preclude such usage. But by banning using the word altogether, in any context, they inhibit normal conversation. And what is the point? If someone is determined to slur gay people, banning certain words won't stop them. They have achieved nothing.  

    I can only presume they banned the word "kill" to prevent someone threatening to kill someone else, or something like that. But people can still threaten other people's lives or castles or what have you, with other words. 

    The idea of having monitors attempting to regulate behavior or manners by banning ordinary words is absurd. As I said, I have no problems with banning words which are ONLY used as racial slurs, or banning what is universally recognized as foul language (f-word, scat word, etc.). But beyond that they have to leave off banning words. 
    (The individual(s) responsible for the decision to ban these words must be one of those super sensitive, busy body, types. I am reminded of various publicized incidents in which a person has been fired and publicly shunned for the innocuous use of some phrase which was taken out of context, and given a twisted interpretation. Some announcer was canned not long ago like that. I don't recall now the phrase, but it was not a racial comment, and the context showed that it could not have been. His integrity was impugned and he was falsely accused of racism, because someone projected ill motives on him. That sentiment is similar to what we see here, though it is being applied to us proactively. They assume we will use these words with malice, so they ban them.)

    As far as regulating behavior goes, I think the players do a pretty good job of that amongst themselves. If someone insists upon being a jerk, word gets around. If someone attacks ops, that person is soon being sabotaged and counter attacked more than they can handle until they get the message. 
    If someone insults or abuses others, the community of players, most of whom are above such conduct, chastise, correct, or shun them. We self regulate for the most part, and it works. 

    In the rare case of someone stalking, threatening, bullying in an illegal fashion, that can be bumped up to appropriate authorities. But banning words like "kill" or "gay" does nothing to prevent such occurrences. It is beyond senseless. 



  • hge (US1)hge (US1) Posts: 986
    Hello Lucas,

    Yes I view the issue the same as you do. Someone at GGE who set the language filter on the private messages must have a mental defect of some sort. 


                                GGE official censor

    Nope, you're discriminating against monkeys. Besides, the combined brainpower of the devs at GGS is less than that of a chipmunk.
    HGE
    I am a non-ruby buying Level 70, Legend 100-something-but-I-am-to-lazy-to-update-this-every-time-I-level-up

    "He was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and clean, and his voice like music; on his brow set wisdom, and in his hand was strength."



    He firecasted.
    His alliance supported.

  • Venom (ASIA1)Venom (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,232
    Replace on of the L's with a capital I, looks the exact same in game.

    Personal am all for the censorship, doesn't give a good outlook without it, even though it is easy to get around.
    That is a good workaround. I will use it. 

    But I am against the censorship. What do you mean by "doesn't give a good outlook without it"?  I am not sure what you're saying. 

    I mean parents and older people will not take kind of GGS allowing this. If GGS do have something to prevent this they will at least see it is not GGS's fault.

    Replace on of the L's with a capital I, looks the exact same in game.

    Personal am all for the censorship, doesn't give a good outlook without it, even though it is easy to get around.
    I am fine with them censoring racial slurs, and foul language. But banning ordinary words is beyond senseless. It inhibits normal conversation.
    What is the point in banning the word "kill" (especially when they use it themselves, isn't that a bit paternalistic?) 
    What is the rationale? Is it because they think it denotes violence? That makes no sense, in a game about soldiers fighting battles. 
    In fact, if they are going to ban normal words like kill, what's to stop them banning words like "fight", or "battle", or "attack"? These words denote violence as well. 
    Because a lot of teenagers get addicted to this game (me), there is also a good chance that person could be suicidal, so people can easily say, "go kill yourself" or similar to them and could end up doing some harm even though it isn't very hard to get around.
    Venom @ Asia - Member for Drunken Fist
    Venom @ Australia - War Marshal for Shadow Lords!!

    Best player on the test server B)

  • overlord90098 (GB1)overlord90098 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,798
    people who really want to insult people will find a way to do it no matter what 
    overlord90098 @ en 1
    Level 70 non ruby-buyer 
    General of DEFA1
    RIP Rulermichael1 


    Okay, listen, we should get our stories straight, alright? If anyone asks -- and no one's gonna ask, don't worry -- but if anyone asks, tell them as far as you know, the last time you checked, everyone looked pretty much alive. Alright? Not dead.

    Nobody is going to space, mate!
    Marie Curie invented the theory of radioactivity, the treatment of radioactivity, and dying of radioactivity. In Victorian England, a commoner was not allowed to look directly at the Queen, due to a belief at the time that the poor had the ability to steal thoughts. Science now believes that less than 4% of poor people are able to do this.

    "Starting now, if I'm honest, to wonder if you're doing all this screen-breaking on purpose. Beginning to actually take it personally. You know what I mean? Like, it's like an insult to me.""Ohh...! There goes another one. There goes another one. They're not inexpensive. I'd just like to point that out. Um, it seems... unfair, y'know, smashing screens. You could give them to people. Instead of smashing them, unscrew them and, and give them to like a homeless person, I don't know what a homeless person would do, but uh, you get my point. It just seems... and you can't unscrew them either, they're bolted in, but... auh, just stop it!!"
    "No, seriously. Do come back. Come back, please."
    "Okay, I've decided not to kill you. IF you come back."
    "Aw. Just thinking back to the old days when we were friends. Good old friends. Not enemies. And I'd say something like 'come back', and you'd be like 'no problem!' And you'd come back. What happened to those days?"
    "Can't help but notice you're not coming back. Which is disappointing."
    "Oo! I've got an idea!"
    "YES YES! IN YOUR FACE! I GOT YO-ah, nope."
    "Fine. Let the games begin."
  • Bill Dawson (US1)Bill Dawson (US1) US1 Posts: 56
    edited 07.05.2017

    Because a lot of teenagers get addicted to this game (me), there is also a good chance that person could be suicidal, so people can easily say, "go kill yourself" or similar to them and could end up doing some harm even though it isn't very hard to get around.
    Sorry but you can just as easily say 'go off yourself' or why don't you shoot yourself, or 'why don't you just die?' or any number of other things to communicate the same idea. Banning the word 'kill' won't prevent a mean person from telling someone else they don't deserve to live. 
    The answer isn't to ban words. That won't work. You would basically have to ban speech altogether in order to prevent someone telling someone else they should not be alive, or they should die, or being mean in any number of other ways. 
    Automobiles are used in the commission of various crimes, but trying to prevent those crimes by banning automobiles is a bad solution, and would not work anyway. Similarly, banning words to prevent people being mean to others not only won't work, but has adverse effects upon everyone else. 

    If there is a player who is stalking, bullying, or otherwise acting maliciously, they should be banned. But banning normal words won't prevent them acting maliciously. 


  • hge (US1)hge (US1) Posts: 986

    Because a lot of teenagers get addicted to this game (me), there is also a good chance that person could be suicidal, so people can easily say, "go kill yourself" or similar to them and could end up doing some harm even though it isn't very hard to get around.
    Sorry but you can just as easily say 'go off yourself' or why don't you shoot yourself, or 'why don't you just die?' or any number of other things to communicate the same idea. Banning the word 'kill' won't prevent a mean person from telling someone else they don't deserve to live. 
    The answer isn't to ban words. That won't work. You would basically have to ban speech altogether in order to prevent someone telling someone else they should not be alive, or they should die, or being mean in any number of other ways. 
    Automobiles are used in the commission of various crimes, but trying to prevent those crimes by banning automobiles is a bad solution, and would not work anyway. Similarly, banning words to prevent people being mean to others not only won't work, but has adverse effects upon everyone else. 

    If there is a player who is stalking, bullying, or otherwise acting maliciously, they should be banned. But banning normal words won't prevent them acting maliciously. 


    ^ What he said.  It makes GGE look like some safe-space snowflake-friendly game when they do stupid stuff such as that.  Guess they should ban the other 50% of the English language that someone would deem offensive.
    HGE
    I am a non-ruby buying Level 70, Legend 100-something-but-I-am-to-lazy-to-update-this-every-time-I-level-up

    "He was tall and straight; his hair was of shining gold, his face fair and young and fearless and full of joy; his eyes were bright and clean, and his voice like music; on his brow set wisdom, and in his hand was strength."



    He firecasted.
    His alliance supported.

  • Watt38 (PT1)Watt38 (PT1) PT1 Posts: 448
    GGS thinks everyonein this game are kids, but it is very obvious that 90% of all active players use swear words...

    Resultado de imagem para honkler

  • mnight (US1)mnight (US1) US1 Posts: 1,430
    edited 09.05.2017
    I spent 20 minutes looking for where i used the word "Arse" as it wouldn't let me send the PM because it had it in there somewhere. Then I found it. Apparently the word HOARSE was close enough. I was simply telling someone I was feeling better from being sick but was still hoarse. What a complete arse I was for using hoarse.

    Also be careful about "naming and shaming" gge. There is a mod here that will issue warnings and bans for naming and shaming people places things and animals because forums aren't truly meant for us to discuss our feelings with the game. tsk tsk. 


    "Mark Night 5ever Crew"
    "Misc Ginger Sloot Crew"
    "Property of MoP Crew"
    "Sold to TM Crew"
    "Signs off when NTJeffery messages Crew"
    "Uggs and Ipads Crew"
    "Ersihoe Crew"
    "Bishes do love winkies Crew"
    "Stays back from edge of train platform because I distrust all other humans crew"
  • Skill - that word (Kill )is not allowed.... :|
    Sucker move -  that word (suck ) is not allowed.... That sucks! - D'oh! :s
    I can't even remember all the Stupid ( that word is not allowed... ) things that I have had to edit to get my messages out... :/
    Artificial intelligence? Nope... Lack of it. All my troops were killed.. Dang it! Again? :D 
    Christopherules @ usa 1
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    Skill - that word (Kill )is not allowed.... :|
    Sucker move -  that word (suck ) is not allowed.... That sucks! - D'oh! :s
    I can't even remember all the Stupid ( that word is not allowed... ) things that I have had to edit to get my messages out... :/
    Artificial intelligence? Nope... Lack of it. All my troops were killed.. Dang it! Again? :D 

    They actually HAVE removed some of the stranger blocks.  For the longest time the word Protocol could not be used due to the potentially derogatory nature of the Portuguese (at least I think it was Portuguese) word Roto.  They actually removed this block after it was pointed out.



    One of the few things that I contributed to the game...........

    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • OK, I agree with banning the IPs of players who are abusive, who "name and shame" as you put it. That makes sense because the monitors are banning bad behavior. But the blanket banning of ordinary words is senseless and doesn't prevent bad behavior. 

    As I pointed out above, GGE actually uses the word kill in their player help and information section. They allow us to use the word in the player chat section, and obviously, they allow us to use the banned words here in the forum section. But they ban the use of the words in player's emails or private messages. Perhaps they feel there is a greater danger of people being mean to others in private messages so they only ban them there.
    But as several people have pointed out and demonstrated, banning the use of these words does not prevent the bad behavior they are apparently attempting to prevent. 
    Censoring ordinary words only inhibits normal conversation. It does nothing to prevent or inhibit bad behavior. 

    Someone suggested that good game studios decided to ban these ordinary words as a facade, a sham. They wanted to present the illusion to parents that they are protecting children from being shamed or subjected to abuse by mean people.  And perhaps that is true. This senseless censorship is a public relations dog and pony show, to falsely imply that they are protecting children. 






  •  I have seen some "smart" software which can determine the meaning of sentences. Such software could conceivably be developed specifically to identify the "naming and shaming" behavior and other bad behaviors. 
    It would not be foolproof, but if the idea is to prevent people saying mean things in emails, such software programs could actually help achieve the goal of identifying and preventing people saying mean, ugly things to others. 

    If a player felt that the software had flagged or prevented his email in a false positive, he could appeal and report it with by clicking a link.  Similarly, if players received mean messages from others which the system failed to identify, they could click a link to report the false negative. 
    With continued use, this system could "learn" to better avoid false positives and false negatives. This happens during the software development, but as I said, such programs are not 100% accurate. In the real world, with tens of thousands of different people using it, the flaws in detection would be revealed and the system improved. 

    Clearly, there is also a great danger in this kind of software. While it could be developed and used with good intentions, such software could also be designed to identify and ban the expression of certain political ideas or ideologies. It could be used as a cyber politically correct bully. 
    I fear all censorship programs. Their purpose is to infringe upon our freedom of expression, infringing upon our civil rights. They seek to control people's thoughts and their speech.

    It is a great tragedy when young people develop mental illness and commit suicide. It is another great tragedy to see how young people are being trained in our schools to place great value on group conformity. They are sensitized to peer pressure and are ridiculed and shamed for individualism.  In this one operation, the kids are trained to be super sensitive to the opinions of others, and also taught to be mean to those who fail to conform. These kids are more easily devastated emotionally when their peers say mean things to them. And they are taught to be mean to those who refuse to conform. What is going on in our schools these days is a disaster. It is mental abuse. When kids who have been taught that belonging to and being accepted by their peer group is all important are later rejected or ridiculed by a member (or members) of the group, it is no surprise when they are emotionally devastated or become very depressed. 

    Young people should be taught the old maxim that "everyone has the right to his or her own opinion". If others see things differently than you do, there is nothing wrong with that. Individualism should be valued, Young people should feel strong enough, confident enough in themselves that they are able to weather the mean things others might say to them. 

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