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Why Players Use Bots

13

Comments

  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122

    Correct.  GGE needs to do 3 things:

    1. Understand why people are using bots (They've begun doing this).
    2. Figure out ways to address the biggest of those issues (They've begun doing this).
    3. Penalize those who have used bots (They've begun doing this).

    The problem with your Option 3 item is this: Penalizing players who have used bots will not solve the problem. Bot programmers will re-code, and the process will start all over again. Fixing the game, adding new content, and taking the tedium out of game-play is the only way to fix bot users. If the publisher does NOT make that their priority, they will be paying their programmers to constantly write new code to detect bots and applications to ban users, with little to no time left to improve their game.

    Thank you for your feedback.
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



  • Another 50 forum posts where everyone is complaining about something they wanted gge to do, because they did it . . . and they didn't think the rules should apply to them as well. . . .  smh and here i thought 20  mil - 36 mil loot a week wasn't all that great because of how high other people's were . . . funny it's not that high already now. and pretty sure i saw something about recruiting somewhere in one of these posts . . . srs??? they fixed the issue with that when they changed recruiting . . . the issue is the flat out cheating when it comes to attacking.

  • kampo (US1)kampo (US1) US1 Posts: 283
    Players resort to using bots, when game logic and technology fails.

    This thread is not about whether using bots is justified, or if players who use them should be considered “cheaters”. This thread is about GGE taking an inventory of their game, and understanding WHY bots are used.

    Programmers who understand the theory of why players use bots, are also the authors of bots. Their insight into the minds and emotional compass of gamers allows them to exploit failed games and turn them into money making machines for their bot programs.

    Bots have been around since online games first hit the internet. And here is the theory of “why”:

    THE GAME IS A CLICK FEST
    When a user must repeatedly perform the same click actions over and over again, like a robot, to complete a task, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME IS REPETITIOUS
    When users encounter game play that can be calculated and played in the same manner day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME STAGNATES IN OLD CONTENT
    Users are promised new content but the publisher fails to deliver fresh content to the game. This supports boredom and latency in game playing. This screams for bots to take over the user’s game play, because content is no longer challenging or vigorous.

    THE GAME USES TIME COMMITMENTS TO PROGRESS
    When the same tasks are exponentially increased over time resulting in greater rewards than players with limited time to progress, this screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME’S AGE SHOWS LAYERS OF BUGS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN FIXED
    The failure to clean up bugs in a legacy game, promotes a lack of respect for the game, the publisher, and it’s employees. That screams for bot programmers to take advantage of failed code and exploit the game.

    So, my challenge to GGE is for you to reflect on your game, and ask yourself… do the above points describe our game? Could that be the reason why bots have taken over our game? Our player base?

    Thank you for your time and feel free to comment.


    here is what you do cheater , find a different game to play and cheat on , I sit here and click my clicker , and spend hours playing , but you click once and play for 24 hours , and never see what you do , that to me is not fun , just move on , GGE doesn't need your money or your BS 
  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122
    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



  • kampo (US1)kampo (US1) US1 Posts: 283
    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    and cheating will do this , come on get real Lady wolfe , this game doesn't need players like you in it !!
  • the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    srs?  YOU are going to cast asperions on my ranking and activity?  sorry dear, time for you to step off the horse...6,870 in achievement points in a 'C' level alliance tells me all that I need to know.
    just_jan @ usa 1
  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122
    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    and cheating will do this , come on get real Lady wolfe , this game doesn't need players like you in it !!
    You may not like this thread, but do not personally attack me because I am encouraging a conversation that is productive, informative, and engaging. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



  • the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    and cheating will do this , come on get real Lady wolfe , this game doesn't need players like you in it !!
    You may not like this thread, but do not personally attack me because I am encouraging a conversation that is productive, informative, and engaging. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
    encouraging cheating unless gge adds the things into the game that the bots do is productive informative and engaging??
    this is a game on a computer, so most likely gonna have to click a lot, that's just how it works. just like with video games gotta constantly push the buttons . . . now if gge can grant us all telekinetic powers, then we won't have to click every again.

  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122
    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    and cheating will do this , come on get real Lady wolfe , this game doesn't need players like you in it !!
    You may not like this thread, but do not personally attack me because I am encouraging a conversation that is productive, informative, and engaging. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
    encouraging cheating unless gge adds the things into the game that the bots do is productive informative and engaging??
    this is a game on a computer, so most likely gonna have to click a lot, that's just how it works. just like with video games gotta constantly push the buttons . . . now if gge can grant us all telekinetic powers, then we won't have to click every again.
    I am not encouraging cheating. I am encouraging a discussion on how to improve the game to eliminate botting.
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



  • the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    and cheating will do this , come on get real Lady wolfe , this game doesn't need players like you in it !!
    You may not like this thread, but do not personally attack me because I am encouraging a conversation that is productive, informative, and engaging. If you don't like the discussion, ignore it.
    encouraging cheating unless gge adds the things into the game that the bots do is productive informative and engaging??
    this is a game on a computer, so most likely gonna have to click a lot, that's just how it works. just like with video games gotta constantly push the buttons . . . now if gge can grant us all telekinetic powers, then we won't have to click every again.
    I am not encouraging cheating. I am encouraging a discussion on how to improve the game to eliminate botting.
    by suggesting they add in the things people use bots for . . . that is encouraging cheating. the loot ranks sure look a lot different with people not using bots to loot. but the majority of those players claim they weren't using them. so good luck in your encouragement of people cheating and take the easy way out.

  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711

    Correct.  GGE needs to do 3 things:

    1. Understand why people are using bots (They've begun doing this).
    2. Figure out ways to address the biggest of those issues (They've begun doing this).
    3. Penalize those who have used bots (They've begun doing this).

    The problem with your Option 3 item is this: Penalizing players who have used bots will not solve the problem. Bot programmers will re-code, and the process will start all over again. Fixing the game, adding new content, and taking the tedium out of game-play is the only way to fix bot users. If the publisher does NOT make that their priority, they will be paying their programmers to constantly write new code to detect bots and applications to ban users, with little to no time left to improve their game.

    Thank you for your feedback.
    Actually, penalizing players who have bots will contribute to solving the problems.  Maybe not some of the problems you or bot users have, but it will help to solve a lot of the problems GGE and the most players seem to have.
    Even if they only catch some of the players, every little bit helps.

    Then there are other problems, not just the reasons you list for people who 'must resort to using bots.'  But also the vast group of people doing it for nefarious reasons or simply because they can while not online.  When I was talking about being honest earlier, that's what I was referring to.  You're ignoring some of the biggest reasons for bot use out there, and it destroys large swaths the community along with other issues.  Penalizing that type of behavior is a deterrence that would absolutely assist in helping solve such issues.  By denying the seedy underbelly of bot use and only addressing the ones you did, you are in effect passively justifying such cheats.

    Penalize those violating the rules.  If there is no deterrence, people will cheat if they can for whatever reason they come up with.

    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    But you did lump such uses of bots into just one cause (or 3) yourself.  If you can do that why can't she?

    And just because fixing underlying reasons might help everyone, that does not mean you shouldn't penalize those who cheat.  I mean heaven forbid we ever penalize drunk drivers since the problem is society & technology, and the "solution" is cars that not start without passing a breathalizer test.  Or maybe we should never penalize thieves either, since they 'must resort to stealing' because every thief has their version of little Timmy at home starving, and the real solution would be better security and fixing society's need to steal, right?  So we should not even discuss the deterrence of penalizing thieves.

    No.  Identify and fix the problem, AND penalize the violators.

    We both want to find the problems and fix them.  But unlike you, I also want cheaters penalized since that's a great deterrence.

    Trust me, they both work.  It's just hard to give something like a bot up once you've started it.  GGE's way may not be perfect, but they're one step closer.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122

    Correct.  GGE needs to do 3 things:

    1. Understand why people are using bots (They've begun doing this).
    2. Figure out ways to address the biggest of those issues (They've begun doing this).
    3. Penalize those who have used bots (They've begun doing this).

    The problem with your Option 3 item is this: Penalizing players who have used bots will not solve the problem. Bot programmers will re-code, and the process will start all over again. Fixing the game, adding new content, and taking the tedium out of game-play is the only way to fix bot users. If the publisher does NOT make that their priority, they will be paying their programmers to constantly write new code to detect bots and applications to ban users, with little to no time left to improve their game.

    Thank you for your feedback.
    Actually, penalizing players who have bots will contribute to solving the problems.  Maybe not some of the problems you or bot users have, but it will help to solve a lot of the problems GGE and the most players seem to have.
    Even if they only catch some of the players, every little bit helps.

    Then there are other problems, not just the reasons you list for people who 'must resort to using bots.'  But also the vast group of people doing it for nefarious reasons or simply because they can while not online.  When I was talking about being honest earlier, that's what I was referring to.  You're ignoring some of the biggest reasons for bot use out there, and it destroys large swaths the community along with other issues.  Penalizing that type of behavior is a deterrence that would absolutely assist in helping solve such issues.  By denying the seedy underbelly of bot use and only addressing the ones you did, you are in effect passively justifying such cheats.

    Penalize those violating the rules.  If there is no deterrence, people will cheat if they can for whatever reason they come up with.

    the bottom line is this....without GGE's most welcome intervention, non-ruby players and non-bot users simply didn't stand a snowball's chance of achieving top rewards in any events, much less a chance of winning.  it's ridiculous to suggest that players use bots simply because they're bored or unchallenged by the game as using a bot takes you that much farther away from the 'action'.

    to bot is to cheat. period.  and it isn't just a cheat of GGE, it cheats against the other people in the game.  the same people that keep the game alive and interactive.  if you can't find enjoyment without a cheat, perhaps it's time to find a new game.
    Sorry? I guess you skimmed over the opening remarks on why players use bots. The underlying reasons are many. I venture to say even the publishers know this. You can't lump the use of bots into one cause. Fixing the reason for using bots in the first place, is a benefit to those who don't use bots as well. Wouldn't you like to have new content? Stop the redundant never ending clicks to achieve simple tasks? Bring some challenge back to the game? Non-ruby players are many... and also fall into the top looters and winners of events in the game. This is easily proven by tracking players through the rankings tab. Being in a team orientated and active alliance helps as well. Search for your own name in the rankings tab, and you tell me if you are active and engaged enough to win an event.
    But you did lump such uses of bots into just one cause (or 3) yourself.  If you can do that why can't she?

    And just because fixing underlying reasons might help everyone, that does not mean you shouldn't penalize those who cheat.  I mean heaven forbid we ever penalize drunk drivers since the problem is society & technology, and the "solution" is cars that not start without passing a breathalizer test.  Or maybe we should never penalize thieves either, since they 'must resort to stealing' because every thief has their version of little Timmy at home starving, and the real solution would be better security and fixing society's need to steal, right?  So we should not even discuss the deterrence of penalizing thieves.

    No.  Identify and fix the problem, AND penalize the violators.

    We both want to find the problems and fix them.  But unlike you, I also want cheaters penalized since that's a great deterrence.

    Trust me, they both work.  It's just hard to give something like a bot up once you've started it.  GGE's way may not be perfect, but they're one step closer.
    Thank you for your feedback. I do value your opinion. However, the point of this thread was not about cheating. Nor was it about penalizing users who bot. The discussion was started for analyzing WHY users botted, and the root cause of their behavior. No matter what your argument, (or mine for that matter), GGE did a blanket ban, fingering the users who may or may not have been botting, either currently or historically. Rather than examine their own game shortcomings, vision, and testing, they instead chose to blame it's user-base. So, I stand by my initial points in my opening statements, and still challenge GGE to examine their game and identify WHY users employ bots. In the long run, all the deterrents in the world will not fix their game, and will only prolong the death of it.
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



  • David Noble (US1)David Noble (US1) Posts: 2,552
    edited 27.04.2017
    I'm in college and I spend less than an hour a day at school.

    However, I know hundreds of high schoolers that play this game, who in this generation are easily computer literate enough to download and run softwares on their computers.

    The assumed target demographic is /busy/ people, none of the college students I know, myself included, have very busy lives. I work a few hours a week, go to class a few hours a week, but spend the rest of my time in my house.
    Hundreds of high school students or more may play this game on the US1 server alone and you are right they may be easily computer literate enough to download and run software on their computers with most of whom are probably 16, 17, 18, or even 19 years old, but many more people who play this game are adults. If 75% or more of the people who play this game are adults then that could also mean that the majority of bot users are also adults as well. You could still factor in school as an excuse for using bots though as you pointed out. However, some bots may cost money to use as well.
    David Noble @ usa 1
  • I'm not saying there aren't a lot of adults that play, I'm saying that the appeal of bots is targeted towards busy people, such as people who have to sit at a desk for 8 hours a day (like high schoolers, or adults with jobs).

    Arguing against that point by saying that there are more adults than kids playing the game is pointless, because the demographic is the same nonetheless, those are just 2 examples of busy populations.
    Friedrich IV US1
    The Prodigal Scrub Returns
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    Thank you for your feedback. I do value your opinion. However, the point of this thread was not about cheating. Nor was it about penalizing users who bot. The discussion was started for analyzing WHY users botted, and the root cause of their behavior. No matter what your argument, (or mine for that matter), GGE did a blanket ban, fingering the users who may or may not have been botting, either currently or historically. Rather than examine their own game shortcomings, vision, and testing, they instead chose to blame it's user-base. So, I stand by my initial points in my opening statements, and still challenge GGE to examine their game and identify WHY users employ bots. In the long run, all the deterrents in the world will not fix their game, and will only prolong the death of it.
    Then when writing your posts, do not go so out of your way to let cheaters off the hook.  You keep ignoring the fact that I share the same view as you about them addressing issues, while I also applaud their maintaining their rules as well.  You on the other hand want one but not the other.  By attempting so hard to give validation to those who are using bots, you are in fact making this about cheating, albeit passively.  I think that is why you are seeing so many people respond as we are.

    I know people don't trust GGE on a lot of things, but I think this time they're laying it out accurately:  They have a way to tell who has used a large number of bots out there, and they gave them a ban.  I do not believe GGE gave a blanket ban to people who have not used bots.  This seems too precise so far, and the people whom I know have used bots in the past have predictably denied doing so when they were banned the other night.  Of course they will say they haven't.

    You say GGE has not addressed their own shortcomings.  It's easy to lob accusations, lol.  I say they HAVE been addressing them, with mixed success.  Maybe not to the extent you like, but they've been trying.  On top of that, they've started to enforce their policies.  I say rock on!  If they're moderately successful at addressing in-game issues, and decently successful at starting to enforce their rules, then kudos to GGE, though they have a long way to go.

    I simply do not subscribe to your view that GGE does nothing, has tried nothing, and has no right to enforce their own rules.  And I notice you keep ignoring the relevant parallels that apply to the situation of deterrence.  You can't just keep going on the attack attack attack when people are pointing out legitimate reasons to enforce the rules/laws or it starts to just become words without substance.

    I'd be delighted if you began to ask for both, LadyWolfe, and not just for feature enhancements without enforcing their own rules.  Because deny it all you want, you are condoning the cheating by your refusal to condemn it to penalty.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Diavolo (US1)Diavolo (US1) US1 Posts: 655
    Players resort to using bots, when game logic and technology fails.

    This thread is not about whether using bots is justified, or if players who use them should be considered “cheaters”. This thread is about GGE taking an inventory of their game, and understanding WHY bots are used.

    Programmers who understand the theory of why players use bots, are also the authors of bots. Their insight into the minds and emotional compass of gamers allows them to exploit failed games and turn them into money making machines for their bot programs.

    Bots have been around since online games first hit the internet. And here is the theory of “why”:

    THE GAME IS A CLICK FEST
    When a user must repeatedly perform the same click actions over and over again, like a robot, to complete a task, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME IS REPETITIOUS
    When users encounter game play that can be calculated and played in the same manner day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME STAGNATES IN OLD CONTENT
    Users are promised new content but the publisher fails to deliver fresh content to the game. This supports boredom and latency in game playing. This screams for bots to take over the user’s game play, because content is no longer challenging or vigorous.

    THE GAME USES TIME COMMITMENTS TO PROGRESS
    When the same tasks are exponentially increased over time resulting in greater rewards than players with limited time to progress, this screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME’S AGE SHOWS LAYERS OF BUGS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN FIXED
    The failure to clean up bugs in a legacy game, promotes a lack of respect for the game, the publisher, and it’s employees. That screams for bot programmers to take advantage of failed code and exploit the game.

    So, my challenge to GGE is for you to reflect on your game, and ask yourself… do the above points describe our game? Could that be the reason why bots have taken over our game? Our player base?

    Thank you for your time and feel free to comment.


    Don't use bots. Period. Regardless of what excuses people may have for using them. Is it fair to the people who have to work extra hard at the game while those who use bots can complete an event or invasion with little effort? The answer is no. I understand that a lot of people have to work, but bots are still technically cheating.
    Of course it's cheating, but that doesn't change the underlying motivations for using them. Moreover, GGE should take lessons from bots: why are they used, what do they improve in the game?

    Bots aren't used for the express purpose of "cheating." Bots are used to get around the tedium and walls of frustration that GGE set up. Whenever a game does this - create frustration to induce people to pay their way around such - gamers find ways around these. Unlike other games, GGE can actually address a great deal of the tedium and it's a positive sign that they have with recruiting. So we know they're listening to us (and the botters) and they're willing to improve the game.

    And that's this conversation. It's not about the evils of botting, it's about the lessons.
    Hidingfromyou @ usa 1
  • Diavolo (US1)Diavolo (US1) US1 Posts: 655

    Correct.  GGE needs to do 3 things:

    1. Understand why people are using bots (They've begun doing this).
    2. Figure out ways to address the biggest of those issues (They've begun doing this).
    3. Penalize those who have used bots (They've begun doing this).

    The problem with your Option 3 item is this: Penalizing players who have used bots will not solve the problem. Bot programmers will re-code, and the process will start all over again. Fixing the game, adding new content, and taking the tedium out of game-play is the only way to fix bot users. If the publisher does NOT make that their priority, they will be paying their programmers to constantly write new code to detect bots and applications to ban users, with little to no time left to improve their game.

    Thank you for your feedback.
    Then GGE will upgrade their bot sniffing programs and hand out ban #2s. Then 3s, then 4s, then the permabans. Eventually botters will lose their accounts, others will notice, and it'll be a dangerous and careful thing to continue botting.
    Hidingfromyou @ usa 1
  • LadyWolfe (US1)LadyWolfe (US1) US1 Posts: 122
    Players resort to using bots, when game logic and technology fails.

    This thread is not about whether using bots is justified, or if players who use them should be considered “cheaters”. This thread is about GGE taking an inventory of their game, and understanding WHY bots are used.

    Programmers who understand the theory of why players use bots, are also the authors of bots. Their insight into the minds and emotional compass of gamers allows them to exploit failed games and turn them into money making machines for their bot programs.

    Bots have been around since online games first hit the internet. And here is the theory of “why”:

    THE GAME IS A CLICK FEST
    When a user must repeatedly perform the same click actions over and over again, like a robot, to complete a task, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME IS REPETITIOUS
    When users encounter game play that can be calculated and played in the same manner day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year, that screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME STAGNATES IN OLD CONTENT
    Users are promised new content but the publisher fails to deliver fresh content to the game. This supports boredom and latency in game playing. This screams for bots to take over the user’s game play, because content is no longer challenging or vigorous.

    THE GAME USES TIME COMMITMENTS TO PROGRESS
    When the same tasks are exponentially increased over time resulting in greater rewards than players with limited time to progress, this screams for a bot or macro.

    THE GAME’S AGE SHOWS LAYERS OF BUGS THAT HAVE NEVER BEEN FIXED
    The failure to clean up bugs in a legacy game, promotes a lack of respect for the game, the publisher, and it’s employees. That screams for bot programmers to take advantage of failed code and exploit the game.

    So, my challenge to GGE is for you to reflect on your game, and ask yourself… do the above points describe our game? Could that be the reason why bots have taken over our game? Our player base?

    Thank you for your time and feel free to comment.


    Don't use bots. Period. Regardless of what excuses people may have for using them. Is it fair to the people who have to work extra hard at the game while those who use bots can complete an event or invasion with little effort? The answer is no. I understand that a lot of people have to work, but bots are still technically cheating.
    Of course it's cheating, but that doesn't change the underlying motivations for using them. Moreover, GGE should take lessons from bots: why are they used, what do they improve in the game?

    Bots aren't used for the express purpose of "cheating." Bots are used to get around the tedium and walls of frustration that GGE set up. Whenever a game does this - create frustration to induce people to pay their way around such - gamers find ways around these. Unlike other games, GGE can actually address a great deal of the tedium and it's a positive sign that they have with recruiting. So we know they're listening to us (and the botters) and they're willing to improve the game.

    And that's this conversation. It's not about the evils of botting, it's about the lessons.
    ^^^This. Thank you for your feedback, Hiding!
    LadyWolfe @ usa 1.
    Proud member of MISC: United
    Survivor of 2 Server Wars



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