PVP balancing

veloric (US1) · 13.04.2017

may i offer a potential solution for making stronger players hitting weaker players less appealing, and hitting stronger ones more appealing;

1: instead of increasing defender strength, as was considered at an earlier date, decrease defender strength.
2: create either legendary level or might point brackets for pvp, and having penalties for hitting those in lower brackets, such as;

- reduced combat strength
- less glory
- less loot

3: reduce the combat strength advantage given by large defense troop count in the defender's castle.i'm fairly certain having an excessive troop presence reduces losses in the courtyard in the defender's favor, that's a big time discouragement for hitting the top alliances.

i feel that this would make hitting not only the stronger players, but stronger alliances more appealing, as lots of glory can be gained so that players feel it's better worth the armorer tools likely to be lost to such a hit.

if anyone has some criticism or perhaps some suggestions on this idea, of course feel free to share

MaxMaxon (US1) · 13.04.2017

It will never happen because those that benefit the most (the very top alliances) will resist the most. You will also hear their mantra "It's a war game" as one of the first lines they use to defend the status quo.

mikesmight123 (GB1) · 13.04.2017

PvP is dead, for many reasons, some vary depending which server your on. For example finding that most of the competition is pacted to each other or every alliance is a sub of a massive alliance. That is hard to fix, however you can always improve on other things.

I feel offence and defence are fairly balanced at the moment, and when they weren't it wasn't due to the stats of the troops but rather it was the disparity between the commanders on offer and the castellans that most people had. People could comfortably put 4 courtyard gems on their foreign invader commanders and except a decent chance at winning the flank, now you need to have at least 1 flank gem to even stand a chance.

The problem with the stagnation of PvP is that the incentive to hit someone is far less than the incentive to hit an NPC, why should I send a large and expensive army, that might not even come back for a mediocre amount of loot, small amount of glory (as compared with a decent FI hit) and some useless honor points which will only make you a target to the big players. There simply isn't enough reason to do so, not to mention having your flags wasted when someone fire-casts or just having time wasted when someone opens gates.

I can a hit at a nomad camp and expect my army to return with a good amount of loot and coins, some tablets which will aid in building myself up in the long run, getting some long-term event points so I can get myself a (usually) very nice equipment set as well as only using a small amount of tools as compared with a hit on another player.

The quickest solutions I can see to increasing PvP activity is:

1) Increasing the value of honor, make the rewards better, for example, have a super-strong bonus for being the to player with honor, have great rewards for being certain places on the honor leaderboard at the end of each month, imagine the PvP rush at the end of the month as hundreds of players are sending out hits in the chance of grabbing a geat reward (emphasising that the reward must be worthwhile) that will usually keep the strong hitting the medium-strong players as to gain a worthwhile amount of honor.

2) Have gaining X amount of honor give you some season points, that way we arent stuck in 30 days of non-stop PvE, would keep player's intrests higgher for longer as you may decide to earn your points 1 week by hitting a lot of people and the other by traditionally doing events. The points on offer have to be just right though, too little and nothing changes, too much and events die and GGS gets no event money.

The game already has a method of ensuring relatively fair hits take place, it just needs a facelift as the game has moved forward at a very pace these past years.

veloric (US1) · 14.04.2017

i disagree. better honor rewards will not help, as you wont be able to win against top players anyway, given all the support sent and strong castys. also, you dont need a flank gem on an fl commander to win flanks, with the proper setup its not all that difficult, unless of course they got the kala set with a max wall capacity build item...then you're in for it lol.

you underestimate the value of glory to players by pvp. as it is now, of course it's not appetizing to send on the strong players/alliances, as you can hardly beat any troops. hence why i suggested defense troops to be weakened, more troops beat, more glory earned. hence, more appetizing to the stronger players.

i guess our opinions about whether pvp is dead or not differs due to us being on different servers.

MrKennyKRH (SKN1) · 14.04.2017

Giving better rewards for honor as a stand-alone fix to PvP would not work. It would just mean that high-level players in strong allys would cement themselves at the top even more than now. High honor would be exclusive to those who are willing to spend rubys on changing their HoL to defensive mode the most.

Fixing PvP requires a lot more than just reworking honor.

Shadow_21 (AU1) · 14.04.2017

Its a war game @maxmaxon(US1)

Venom (ASIA1) · 14.04.2017

They reduce the amount of troops you can attack with. That takes away large amounts of combat strength. Plus low levels get more troops back after attacked which makes it much more fair. It is just commander and castallen strength that needs to be fix, but a low level doesn't deserve a forry comm for obvious reasons.

veloric (US1) · 14.04.2017

it's not because of commanders and castellans....like i mentioned in my comment, all it takes is some know-how to win attacks/defenses. giving lower level players more advantage is only gonna kill pvp more, not promote it. the lower levels get slammed because it is not feasible to attack the top alliances.

yes, reducing defense troops strength alone will not help things, but that is why i also suggested less benefits for hitting weaker targets.

you have to make it so that hitting the strong players is more beneficial and hitting weaker ones less beneficial. so that way, the big players will be happy hitting each other instead of picking of weaker targets, and the weaker players can have fun hitting each other, in a balanced enviromnent.

those who are strong deserve to have the stronger stuff, because contrary to popular belief, most of them actually WORK for their strength, me being one of them. if you do not have the time to put into building yourself up to being a powerhouse, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't whine when the ones who do put in more time get advantages. if you want to compete with them, work for it. if not, then accept reality.

MrKennyKRH (SKN1) · 14.04.2017

These threads about fixing PvP are unfortunately pointless. PvP is dead because there is always a monthly event and regular events run non-stop. Most players would rather use troops and tools on events, where the rewards are guaranteed. Goodgame will never lower the amount of events, so there is time for PvP. They make too much money on events.

GuniRuler (US1) · 15.04.2017

mikesmight123 (GB1) said:

PvP is dead, for many reasons, some vary depending which server your on. For example finding that most of the competition is pacted to each other or every alliance is a sub of a massive alliance. That is hard to fix, however you can always improve on other things.

I feel offence and defence are fairly balanced at the moment, and when they weren't it wasn't due to the stats of the troops but rather it was the disparity between the commanders on offer and the castellans that most people had. People could comfortably put 4 courtyard gems on their foreign invader commanders and except a decent chance at winning the flank, now you need to have at least 1 flank gem to even stand a chance.

The problem with the stagnation of PvP is that the incentive to hit someone is far less than the incentive to hit an NPC, why should I send a large and expensive army, that might not even come back for a mediocre amount of loot, small amount of glory (as compared with a decent FI hit) and some useless honor points which will only make you a target to the big players. There simply isn't enough reason to do so, not to mention having your flags wasted when someone fire-casts or just having time wasted when someone opens gates.

I can a hit at a nomad camp and expect my army to return with a good amount of loot and coins, some tablets which will aid in building myself up in the long run, getting some long-term event points so I can get myself a (usually) very nice equipment set as well as only using a small amount of tools as compared with a hit on another player.

The quickest solutions I can see to increasing PvP activity is:

1) Increasing the value of honor, make the rewards better, for example, have a super-strong bonus for being the to player with honor, have great rewards for being certain places on the honor leaderboard at the end of each month, imagine the PvP rush at the end of the month as hundreds of players are sending out hits in the chance of grabbing a geat reward (emphasising that the reward must be worthwhile) that will usually keep the strong hitting the medium-strong players as to gain a worthwhile amount of honor.

2) Have gaining X amount of honor give you some season points, that way we arent stuck in 30 days of non-stop PvE, would keep player's intrests higgher for longer as you may decide to earn your points 1 week by hitting a lot of people and the other by traditionally doing events. The points on offer have to be just right though, too little and nothing changes, too much and events die and GGS gets no event money.

The game already has a method of ensuring relatively fair hits take place, it just needs a facelift as the game has moved forward at a very pace these past years.

this was one hard essay to read

veloric (US1) · 15.04.2017

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

These threads about fixing PvP are unfortunately pointless. PvP is dead because there is always a monthly event and regular events run non-stop. Most players would rather use troops and tools on events, where the rewards are guaranteed. Goodgame will never lower the amount of events, so there is time for PvP. They make too much money on events.

once again, i have to disagree. lots of armorer tools can be earned in events plus demons if you work hard at it, and it's simple enough to send pvp hits during the events. i do it all time. so i'd say the events actually help with pvp capabilities. no need to use up the armorer stuff on events if your earning/making plenty of other tools.

veloric (US1) · 15.04.2017

come on guys, have a little faith. there are plenty of players who like to do pvp on a regular basis.

when i said any criticism and suggestions were welcome, i meant constructive criticism, not "oh don't bother its pointless just give up". that isn't gonna help anyone guys, try to have an open mind. i'm trying to give a suggestion to GGS to at least encourage a good direction as far as pvp goes. i agree this is not an immediate fix to the issues, but it's a start. no major change to the pvp world is gonna happen overnight.

but i do definitely agree that in addition to any combat changes there should definitely be some more incentive reward-wise to do pvp. the alliance tourney needs to be fixed so that players have to do legit pvp instead of just boosting.

as far as the alliance tourney goes, i do have an idea to share about that as well on how to potentially fix it. perhaps if for glory, only hits that would gain honor count towards the alliance tourney score. i highly doubt it would be easy if even possible to use farm accounts to boost like that, given i doubt they will have honor to gain.

furthermore, i think the aforementioned legendary level or might point brackets may also help with that. less glory for hits on those in lower brackets.

as far as alliance tourney prizes, i think those are already really good as they currently are, so IMO no changes needed there.

so come on guys, help me out! let's have some positivity and maybe, just maybe, we can bring a little more life into pvp!

and if you really want to help, perhaps spreading this thread around a little to get attention.

veloric (US1) · 15.04.2017

also, i do apologize if i seemed critical and/or arrogant in my responses to your comments, isn't my intention, i am just a debate person by nature. while i seem very opinionated i do keep an open mind, and the conclusions i come to regarding your opinions was made after careful thought. rest assured, while i do admit i do have a particular dislike for pessimism, your feedback is listened to and appreciated

Herveus (AU1) · 15.04.2017

veloric (US1) said:

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

These threads about fixing PvP are unfortunately pointless. PvP is dead because there is always a monthly event and regular events run non-stop. Most players would rather use troops and tools on events, where the rewards are guaranteed. Goodgame will never lower the amount of events, so there is time for PvP. They make too much money on events.

once again, i have to disagree. lots of armorer tools can be earned in events plus demons if you work hard at it, and it's simple enough to send pvp hits during the events. i do it all time. so i'd say the events actually help with pvp capabilities. no need to use up the armorer stuff on events if your earning/making plenty of other tools.

tell me how you keep up with boulders it is what I always struggle with cause I run blind I need 60 boulders minimum per attack since sending spies would be a dead give away.

MrKennyKRH (SKN1) · 15.04.2017

Every suggestion made in this thread have already been suggested before. Goodgame is definitely aware of what would improve PvP. Unfortunately they have their priorities and PvP is 100% on the bottom of that list. PvP just doesn't bring in the kind of money as events do.

Also I am not saying that most players can't do PvP. Of course they can. It's just that in my own experience, most players don't engage in PvP because you have to use a lot of tools and troops for little gain. It means that they can't participate in the monthly event as much as they would want. So they just don't do PvP, cause events are more rewarding and much easier. And ever since goodgame introduced never-ending events and monthly events, then it has resulted in these players just never wanting to engage in PvP.

Events are one major reason for the death of PvP. There are other things that contribute to this, but you can just look through the alliance tournament thread to find them. Basically everything has already been discussed in that thread I think.

veloric (US1) · 15.04.2017

Herveus (AU1) said:

veloric (US1) said:

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

These threads about fixing PvP are unfortunately pointless. PvP is dead because there is always a monthly event and regular events run non-stop. Most players would rather use troops and tools on events, where the rewards are guaranteed. Goodgame will never lower the amount of events, so there is time for PvP. They make too much money on events.

once again, i have to disagree. lots of armorer tools can be earned in events plus demons if you work hard at it, and it's simple enough to send pvp hits during the events. i do it all time. so i'd say the events actually help with pvp capabilities. no need to use up the armorer stuff on events if your earning/making plenty of other tools.

tell me how you keep up with boulders it is what I always struggle with cause I run blind I need 60 boulders minimum per attack since sending spies would be a dead give away.

i hit plenty of towers in outer kingdoms on a regular basis, plus i hit any desert fortresses and dragons i can get my hands on.as a result i can easily afford boulders when i want them as well as armorer defense tools and other upgrades i want.

veloric (US1) · 15.04.2017

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

Every suggestion made in this thread have already been suggested before. Goodgame is definitely aware of what would improve PvP. Unfortunately they have their priorities and PvP is 100% on the bottom of that list. PvP just doesn't bring in the kind of money as events do.

Also I am not saying that most players can't do PvP. Of course they can. It's just that in my own experience, most players don't engage in PvP because you have to use a lot of tools and troops for little gain. It means that they can't participate in the monthly event as much as they would want. So they just don't do PvP, cause events are more rewarding and much easier. And ever since goodgame introduced never-ending events and monthly events, then it has resulted in these players just never wanting to engage in PvP.

Events are one major reason for the death of PvP. There are other things that contribute to this, but you can just look through the alliance tournament thread to find them. Basically everything has already been discussed in that thread I think.

you make a fair point there with the events. i do know plenty of players that manage to do both pretty well and often on the server i play on though, so its not impossible to do both.plus, GGS has mentioned their intentions on at least balancing pvp, which i am hoping they will not go back on, so i figured i might as well put in my 2 cents.

Herveus (AU1) · 15.04.2017

veloric (US1) said:

Herveus (AU1) said:

veloric (US1) said:

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

These threads about fixing PvP are unfortunately pointless. PvP is dead because there is always a monthly event and regular events run non-stop. Most players would rather use troops and tools on events, where the rewards are guaranteed. Goodgame will never lower the amount of events, so there is time for PvP. They make too much money on events.

once again, i have to disagree. lots of armorer tools can be earned in events plus demons if you work hard at it, and it's simple enough to send pvp hits during the events. i do it all time. so i'd say the events actually help with pvp capabilities. no need to use up the armorer stuff on events if your earning/making plenty of other tools.

tell me how you keep up with boulders it is what I always struggle with cause I run blind I need 60 boulders minimum per attack since sending spies would be a dead give away.

i hit plenty of towers in outer kingdoms on a regular basis, plus i hit any desert fortresses and dragons i can get my hands on.as a result i can easily afford boulders when i want them as well as armorer defense tools and other upgrades i want.

I do the same but still 60 boulders = 2760 a day needed for PVP for boulders alone If you had 4 waves, if you had 6 waves it'd be 5520, while the 276ß are manageable the 5520 for boulders and then including sw and br you cannot do daily PvP as I'd like to and you can only it when you want to and not daily. If you have an idea how I could get more rubies which does not include buying them I'd be glad to hear them

MrKennyKRH (SKN1) · 15.04.2017

veloric (US1) said:

MrKennyKRH (US1) said:

Every suggestion made in this thread have already been suggested before. Goodgame is definitely aware of what would improve PvP. Unfortunately they have their priorities and PvP is 100% on the bottom of that list. PvP just doesn't bring in the kind of money as events do.

Also I am not saying that most players can't do PvP. Of course they can. It's just that in my own experience, most players don't engage in PvP because you have to use a lot of tools and troops for little gain. It means that they can't participate in the monthly event as much as they would want. So they just don't do PvP, cause events are more rewarding and much easier. And ever since goodgame introduced never-ending events and monthly events, then it has resulted in these players just never wanting to engage in PvP.

Events are one major reason for the death of PvP. There are other things that contribute to this, but you can just look through the alliance tournament thread to find them. Basically everything has already been discussed in that thread I think.

you make a fair point there with the events. i do know plenty of players that manage to do both pretty well and often on the server i play on though, so its not impossible to do both.plus, GGS has mentioned their intentions on at least balancing pvp, which i am hoping they will not go back on, so i figured i might as well put in my 2 cents.

Sure, active players have no problem doing both. But average and weak players mostly choose to do events and they are the vast majority of the player base. That has just been my experience, but the server that I mainly play on is also SKN1, and it is not nearly as big a server as US1. So PvP might not be in as bad a state on the US1 server, but on SKN1 there are not many players who want to do PvP.

veloric (US1) · 16.04.2017

i agree, differs from server to server.

and to answer you, herveus, how i described it is exactly how i earn rubies to keep stocked on my tools.

in a day i usually manage to hit ice towers 15 times, sands towers 21 times, fire towers 30 times, desert fortress between 3-6, and dragons 3-6. sometimes i get really lucky or i wake up early in the morning and i get a whole pile of them fortresses/dragons, but only rarely. i do earn a lot of rubies lol. i am also gonna improve the towering count real soon.

but i will say i do not do pvp every day, i do it when i feel like it, but some days i do lots of them within the day.as for the shield walls, breaching towers, and heavy rams, those i earn alot of in events, especially the monthly ones, so i always have plenty of those, so i just need to buy boulders, and those go on sale every now and then.

MaxMaxon (US1) · 16.04.2017

Shadow_21 (AU1) said:

Its a war game @maxmaxon(US1)

You are right! It is a war game! And here is the proof with my op being attacked.

http://prntscr.com/ewzg2f

Keep in mind I have never attacked anything belonging to that alliance nor are we at war with them. Rock on!

Edit: I added that link to demonstrate a point I feel about pvp and not to complain about my own circumstances. I believe there are unwritten rules as well in that arena as well as other aspects of the game. If people who are rah rah about pvp want to be taken seriously, then they need to demonstrate behaviour that warrant the respect they think they so richly deserve. If not, then the reputation that they receive is of their own doing.

PVP balancing

Comments

Leave a Comment