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On the topic of cheating, glitching and multiaccounting

2

Comments

  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) Posts: 1,120GB1
    It is common knowledge as to which players and alliances are involved there are obviously lists and it's not like they haven't had plenty of time to get their house in order.  I think sadly it's a case of a closed culture losing perspective and egging each other on based on a false sense of security.  Interesting to see which of the top alliances implodes next under the pressure.  Lets be honest if they have to cheat to this extent their accounts really must be uncompetitive, I had wondered why they weren't further ahead now we know they've been wasting time messing around on something with no real discernible benefit players like Phil outperforming them after all that and they still aren't questionning or changing their leadership or approach.  Still probably shouldn't complain given it's to my advantage:)  Good for honest players to know that in the real standings these guys are nowhere and only hold the places they do because they cheated to obtain them.  Frankly this thread just justify and strengthens calls for stricter penalties sooner.  So in that regard the bravery of a player shopping himself and his current and past alliances is to be commended and hope it encourages others to follow suit.   
    Batten @ en 1
  • Reading this thread you may get the impression multi-accounting is practiced by the majority of players it isn't.  New players also might think that the majority of players accept multi-accounting and password sharing and other rules glitches, we don't we have consistently and continuously opposed the practices within our alliances, in the game and through the forum.  This opposition isn't going to go away regardless of the hits we take to silence us.  Ironically we take a stand because we believe more in the players breaking the rules than they believe in themselves.  
        
    i beg to differ, i can find so many that are using the player farm glitch... even those that preach its heretical nature are doing it, i have suspicions and evidence, some of which ive provided to the right people but if you think that it is only a minority of players doing this then you are simple delusional. (Cant post info on the forums, so dont ask, also am not going to send this as my aim isnt to discriminate or name and shame and would detract from my original post).

    BM's response promises to be interesting given that he plays in the same alliance Odins Fury and perhaps for players on other servers helps explain why there are serious question marks about the validity of any information provided currently through the BM's given the complete failure to address issues in their own alliances.  Some action on that first might go some way to restoring confidence otherwise good luck in convincing us that anything expressed to us is a credible and genuine commtiment.  
    It is not the BMs job to investigate or to communicate the findings or actions taken on these cases, it is also not their interest to destroy their own game by incriminating or accusing their fellow players of these actions. Their in game account is nothing to do with their forum status or actions and shouldnt be, they play the game just like you guys, to have fun and is not apart of their job/role.

     I just wonder if the elimination of all the multi-accounters is going to be the blow that GGS cannot recover from.

    Only if all those multi-accounts are also ruby buyers.

    The real question is:  If the big ruby buyers are multi-accounters, would they still play and buy for their ONE main account? 

    If they are NOT Multi's, then it really wouldn't impact GGS....

    This is not true, if the game has no players then the ruby whales wont continue to invest in their accounts...
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • BM's response promises to be interesting given that he plays in the same alliance Odins Fury and perhaps for players on other servers helps explain why there are serious question marks about the validity of any information provided currently through the BM's given the complete failure to address issues in their own alliances.  Some action on that first might go some way to restoring confidence otherwise good luck in convincing us that anything expressed to us is a credible and genuine commtiment.  

    good luck getting a response from a BM Batten, I got a warning for creating a thread about naming and shaming the farming cheats, no real surprise there though given some of the names that appeared on the thread.

    This thread is not for naming and shaming or accusing please take this else where, i am trying to address the outrageous berating of players on the developers.
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • jsm1t (GB1)jsm1t (GB1) Posts: 71GB1
    BM's response promises to be interesting given that he plays in the same alliance Odins Fury and perhaps for players on other servers helps explain why there are serious question marks about the validity of any information provided currently through the BM's given the complete failure to address issues in their own alliances.  Some action on that first might go some way to restoring confidence otherwise good luck in convincing us that anything expressed to us is a credible and genuine commtiment.  

    good luck getting a response from a BM Batten, I got a warning for creating a thread about naming and shaming the farming cheats, no real surprise there though given some of the names that appeared on the thread.

    This thread is not for naming and shaming or accusing please take this else where, i am trying to address the outrageous berating of players on the developers.
    I believe the topic of this thread is about CHEATING? In my opinion you should be able to name and shame the Players/Alliances who are CHEATING, using multi accounts as farms, but according to BM Ang you are not allowed to do this so the thread was closed, fair enough
    “Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money!”  George Carlin
  • I believe the topic of this thread is about CHEATING? In my opinion you should be able to name and shame the Players/Alliances who are CHEATING, using multi accounts as farms, but according to BM Ang you are not allowed to do this so the thread was closed, fair enough
    1. No, point of this thread is to try and put an end to the berating players trying to force someone to do something with what they dont own.

    2. Its not a good practise to name and shame, its not constructive and also you are not a judge thus you cant declare someone as a villain. It could take me 10 mins to make some story up about you with evidence to incriminate you, if i wanted to. Does it mean i am right?

    3. Its GGS's game they make the rules and you have to abide by them, i feel sorry for your mother's rules if this is how you behave around established boundaries.
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • An extract from Wikipedia:



    The last paragraph being of particular interest in my point... "constantly and consistently bypassed until further updates". Some online games dont even get updated for years... Civilisation being one of them to mind...
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • jsm1t (GB1)jsm1t (GB1) Posts: 71GB1
    LOL, my mothers rules, a while ago since my mother gave me any rules to abide by. but not sure what rules i am breaking here, please enlighten me oh wise one

    But yeah in the rules it talks about multi accounting, being against the rules, so cheating?

    This is a game, its supposed to be enjoyment, playing a game with cheats sorts of ruins the enjoyment you are supposed to gain.

    So maybe, just maybe, if the ones being the cheats.......stopped trying to ruin the game there would be more players in the game, not more shells/farms for Alliances to pretend that "we are still active just taking a break, do not steal our rv's, do not farm us, under the protection of............"  oh but when im on my break ill build a new OP right next to you so you can use me as a farm, ill put a lvl1 keep and lvl7 storage there also just to help you out as you wont have access to my account will you ' )
    “Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money!”  George Carlin
  • Not a claim that you are breaking rules but that if you go around shouting and pointing at people walking down the road smoking weed does this get you anywhere?

    I am in no way condoning the actions these players are taking and you are right it is obvious to many what people are doing but this is done by so many, i know people in your alliance that do/ have done it also. So i dont think anyone here can be the bigger man... 

    What are they not addressing? they are working on fixing all of these issues but it will not happen over night much of the prevention they are bringing will need rewritten code, reworking mechanics and a change in the game economics and if you dont want bugs, crashes and errors galore then these things will need to be tried and tested and thats after the practical and sensible solution is found.

    I dont see the value of your post above, maybe outlining a point would help, ive given you concise and respective replies to your comments but you just continue to go on about how unfair cheating is... like we dont know that but what are you going to do when a MAJORITY of your player base is doing it, your not going to shoot yourself to get a leech off you are you???
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • Mikeshot2 (GB1)Mikeshot2 (GB1) Posts: 291GB1

    Some very interesting points, and very well put @batten -

    The game is at a crossroads where ruby and ex ruby players will not invest in a game being "over exploited" with various cheats and third party pirate software to compete against. The ones using the software and exploiting will not play if these benefits are taken away. Defending the use of in game loot farms bots- 2nd 3rd and fourth account "wait for the ruby offer" is fine, however in real terms many of the exploits have become so widespread and accepted - turning it off now would cause a huge downturn in players on the map. Is that such a bad thing? A re-set ? Lets see what's left I suspect only around 33% of accounts would remain, however don't worry it is just not going to happen. I see GGE trying to evolve a change which I accept takes time, and we as players should encourage an acceptable level - of what's considered "acceptable" we have fair play rules for P v P -  thanks to input from many alliances, so perhaps in the meantime a "code of conduct" should be agreed and followed on acceptable game exploitation - such as farms etc. I am not championing this action, only suggesting it. After all the forums  are here for discussion and debate. I did raise this in UK Leaders server skype chat a while back, it had absolute zero support. I am assuming for fear of losing alliance players, no different to GGE Maybe.

  • jonesydeath (GB1)jonesydeath (GB1) Posts: 218GB1
    edited 12.04.2017
    I'm not really sure who you are trying to convince here us or yourself.  It's at best defence.  Everybody else was looting the shop so I thought it didn't matter if I just took the new plasma screen TV I wanted isn't really a great defence.  

    It isn't encouraging that the new advert for Moderators specifies "Direct contact with the community managers and an international team of moderators!" and "First access to Update information!" whilst "Good knowledge of the forum rules and of the terms and conditions." is right at the bottom.  The Moderators role is to educate the players about the rules to support them to understand and comply with the rules if they fail to address threads like this which openly promote and condone cheating, minimise it's impact and cost to honest players and allow open admission of breaches to go unchallenged what on earth do we have moderators for.  They need to apply the rules equally to all players regardless of whether the player is in the same alliance.  Now given it's Easter people may be on holiday it may take time.  But if you are not suspended retrospectively for your admitted ten instances of password sharing I would strongly suggest our current moderators should be resigning and if they fail to do so I will be writing to support to request that.  

    If an open admission of guilt is sufficient for the rules to be upheld then the game may as well close now.  
    I am not sure where you are coming from with this @Batten (GB1) but accusing me of cheating without evidence (yet again more unsupported accusations) is just ludicrous. I do not cheat, use 3rd party software, multi or glitch/exploit. I however did say i did this back when i started playing the game (5 years ago) when the rules around multi was less and not so well upheld and i was younger and more naive. I indeed use the game mechanics to best my ability and aid my gains.

    The purpose of this topic was not to accuse, or to condone this sort of play style but in fact address the players that continue to berate and attack members of this company. The issues that have been brought are all being addressed and can be seen in the roadmap. Again i will say this will not be a fast thing, its just not possible.

    Some very interesting points, and very well put @batten -

    The game is at a crossroads where ruby and ex ruby players will not invest in a game being "over exploited" with various cheats and third party pirate software to compete against. The ones using the software and exploiting will not play if these benefits are taken away. Defending the use of in game loot farms bots- 2nd 3rd and fourth account "wait for the ruby offer" is fine, however in real terms many of the exploits have become so widespread and accepted - turning it off now would cause a huge downturn in players on the map. Is that such a bad thing? A re-set ? Lets see what's left I suspect only around 33% of accounts would remain, however don't worry it is just not going to happen. I see GGE trying to evolve a change which I accept takes time, and we as players should encourage an acceptable level - of what's considered "acceptable" we have fair play rules for P v P -  thanks to input from many alliances, so perhaps in the meantime a "code of conduct" should be agreed and followed on acceptable game exploitation - such as farms etc. I am not championing this action, only suggesting it. After all the forums  are here for discussion and debate. I did raise this in UK Leaders server skype chat a while back, it had absolute zero support. I am assuming for fear of losing alliance players, no different to GGE Maybe.

    Firstly some interesting points? what false accusations makes for a well put argument...??? 

    As for the game a re-set i would love to see the map and game cleared up not only will it help in this problem but also greatly increase performance reduce the maintenance cost and make the game clearer and cleaner but like you say this just isnt going to happen and will only be a matter of time before the issue is back to where we are now.

    As for fair play, i am not in support of fair play rules many of which go against the original nature of the game (war game). But please dont take me for a rebel i respect these rules and uphold them as they are so widely agreed upon.

    The problems that you guys are bringing up have been in the game since very early on, only now that it is widespread that people want change... this is just the way the human mind works, ill take you back to a certain dictator that tried to kill off many innocent people before other people felt they needed to step in... for gods sake a week before Germany declared war on hungry our own great Sir Winston Churchill see Hitler and was assured nothing was going to happen... (i know its a mute point and not trying to cause a storm around this topic, just the first example that popped into my head of people not doing anything until its "too late").

    Back to topic, Please in simple form tell me @Mikeshot2 (GB1) what it is that you feel the developers are not doing to stop this sort of game play? (keeping in mind time restraints arent always a choice that they are making).
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • Mikeshot2 (GB1)Mikeshot2 (GB1) Posts: 291GB1

    Not really interested in "telling you" @Jonesydeath - like I said it's a forum and its here for views not individual arguments, or other accusations. I have made many suggestions to GGE via support - which I believe has been "passed on" to the development team.

    One  example - Ruby doublers to inactive accounts - send to registered email with a 24 hour time out - and not on log in - being a relatively simple one.

  • "Also multi accounting has been in the game since the start, ill admit i was a multi a very long time ago, no where near a chance to have the time to do it nowadays but i was younger back then... when i first started playing gge 5 years ago i had 8 accounts 6 of which in same alliance mass attacking players that i didnt like in an attempt to destroy them, it worked and worked very well, i never got accused of multi accounting or anything like that."

    These are your words not mine.  I didn't write your post for you.  You volunteered the information knowing the consequences for playing multiple accounts. Given you have admitted to cheating and breaking your terms and conditions and given the punishment outlined and that you haven't by your own admission been punished I don't think it's unreasonable that other players who have never broken the rules should expect them to be upheld in your case.  And given that is eight separate instances of multi-accounting ... well we all read the punishment outlined.  For me it isn't a case of when the offence took place, it's the fact that it did take place.  You set up a thread on cheating then admitted to cheating there is no defence now and this is a test of GGE's resolve and the integrity of the BM's.  If in your case they do not enforce the rules they published in a situation as blatant as this then the contract is worthless and any action they take subsequently is worthless.  There is no rule that I've seen that players get retrospective protection for past breaches the punishment is for a breach as and when identified.  

    There is no argument here you admitted to breaching the rules on at least eight occasions.  You made that admission presumably having read the update outlining the punishment to be levied and understanding the consequences for you and your account.   

    The Moderator's role is to report breaches of the terms and conditions.  Again it isn't unreasonable to do the job they themselves listed in the role description.  Their failure to report breaches and the failure for action to be taken fairly undermines faith in the role and in them.  It is a role function they are required to perform regardless of who is involved. If they don't perform it for a member of their alliance but do perform for an opponent of their alliance what message would it send.  If either or the Moderators or a CM or QA comes on to say their is an amnesty for past offences then fine I'll accept that, your honesty is appreciated and helpful but the principle is important.  There is absolutely no point having rules if you have no intention of enforcing them.  

    My advice would be to contact support yourself and voluntarily offer to submit to a suspension as well as apologise to the other players on En1.  People are entitled to make mistakes whilst learning but you are always going to be regarded with suspicion and you cannot reasonably expect people to forgive or forget particularly those you attacked and victimised.  

    The idea seems to be that because it's a game it's a victimless crime.  The reality is it isn't.  People are paying real money to play and the use of multi-accounts means that they do not achieve the results they should be achieving.  Somebody in the King Eric Challenge sat in 256 who misses out on a Po item because they have seven mutliple accounts in front of them isn't going to be understanding after a month of effort.  Somebody who fails to win the Berimond hero because they were beaten by a player whose account was played in tag by password sharing players through the night they should be okay with that having spent a couple of hundred pounds should they.  The idea that honest players should just stay quiet and accept it is unrealistic and for players in ivory towers locked into their own cabal where people just tell them what they want to hear for fear of being on the receiving end is to expect the rest of us to be okay with them exploited us and cheating us out of prizes and performance we should have achieved is frankly offensive.  

    Had you played in alliances like mine who made a determined change to address these things four years ago you wouldn't be sat in the deep hole you've now dug for yourself.  We used to work collectively to tackle these issues and some of us still do, this problem was born in the top alliances and until they become part of the solution again it will persist.  

    I understand that sounds harsh but I play with players who have grafted within the rules for years, that honesty and integrity shouldn't be a disadvantage.  And the fact that it is becoming increasing apparent that they have been unfairly denied the rewards and progress they should have had is creating a stronger sense of injustice.  Threads like this simply contribute to rather than dissipate that momentum.  The only reason more voices aren't raised is fear of the consequences. That isn't to say we don't have players or accounts within our alliance who we are concerned about and who we monitor closely, we do have concerns and remind players of their responsibilities regularly. But for us we would be looking at losing between 5-10% of our players not 80-95%.  Which alliance is safer for your child to play and invest your money and their time in.  I suspect top alliances may be more greatly effected but then it seems that based on this they are really top alliances at all are they?


    Batten, thats a mighty long post to say that i should be banned/suspended for my actions 5 years ago of which i said i made a mistake and was naive to the reason why not to do it.

    Quite simply you are trying to fight me with this because you know i am right. You do not have facts, you do not know what i have done what my history is. I posted else where about people accusing things without all the info. How do you know havent already been given a suspension at the time for the multi accounting? ive done the crime and paid the time so get off my back about it. and stop trying to derail my discussion with your back handed tatics
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • gazz65 (GB1)gazz65 (GB1) Posts: 524GB1
     :'( can we have another thread talking about multi accounts ruby cheats cgeat in general
    and after that thread can some one please start one about cheating again  :(

    no wonder i am playing pokerstars while gge is getting worse
  • "it worked and worked very well, i never got accused of multi accounting or anything like that."  Again your words not mine.  If you are clarifying for us to say you were suspended then fine I wouldn't expect any further action.  But I would still expect BM's to report it to support for further investigation.  If you didn't know where the line was then how do we know you know where the line is now?  It isn't unreasonable to have doubts.  And if I was in support I would be monitoring you and your alliance much more carefully as players now will do.  With all due respect you admitted to cheating how much more info do we need.  A confession signed in blood?  

    This is debating an issue and disagreeing not fighting.  You are arguing that cheating is commonplace, a part of the game and something we should accept because that's just players having fun, I am disagreeing and arguing that many players are still playing within the rules and are honest, that they do not and should not accept rules breaches which disadvantage them and that if they are experiencing attacks from multi accounts being on the receiving end is not fun.  I am simply presenting a point of view which you seem to be struggling to respond to.  At the heart of this is trust and the fact that tactics of some players and alliances have created a breach in trust.  I don't need tactics I am simply expressing genuinely and honestly what I feel.  You are posting in a public forum open to comment not a private Skype chatroom and welcome to the type of challenge you should have been getting from within your alliance at a much earlier stage.  


      
    You should work for the government you'd fit in well great at reading between the lines. So an off the cuff remark are my final set words are they? No... i meant as in players i attacked never turned around to me and accused me... sorry i should specify every little detail i type shouldnt i and make these posts 5 pages long...

    Sorry but this topic is going down the same old route, your not happy with someones opinion so you try to derail it.

    Just to summarise AGAIN...

    1) In no way do i condone cheating/glitching or exploiting.

    2) Issues are being addressed but will take time

    3) We dont all get what we want, its just not possible

    4) Its clear (to me at least) that players are using/used glitches/exploits but now no longer and are jealous that now others are doing the same they feel they have to shout at someone and thus ggs is in the firing line (and anyone that tries to defend them it seems). With the exception of some that can afford to buy their way to the top (those are the ones i feel really sorry for, but thats what you get playing a pay2win game, non buyers are going to find ways to get an advantage back themselves).

    5) The players are at fault and more specifically the ones that are at the top level that started this exploiting all off...

    Batten you try really hard to find reasons to derail me but you fail repeatedly, making false accusations and then trying to dishonour me and make me out to be a bad guy with no where near all the right information, youve provided absolutely nothing to the this topic...

    6) Read the topic description, im not talking about the glitching or cheating, im talking about the topic of this and how people are handling it badly. If i was ggs and was getting berated even tho im trying to fix it i would just say "well f*** it, keep the glitches and your money is just wasted on us".

    Now im sure @batten will have some reply, probably right now scouring my words with a fine tooth comb to find the next senseless accusation or remark against me.

     :'( can we have another thread talking about multi accounts ruby cheats cgeat in general
    and after that thread can some one please start one about cheating again  :(

    no wonder i am playing pokerstars while gge is getting worse
    Exactly what this is not. I havent explained or brought up any of the cheats or glitches, nor have i said they are what we should be doing nor do am i in the opinion that there needs to be a discussion about them, cheating, glitching or exploiting a multiplayer game is wrong and always will be.

    Finally just a few things to clarify:
    If you didn't know where the line was then how do we know you know where the line is now?  
    DO you read all the terms of every game you play? Most games dont ban multi accounting, in fact this is the first that ive played that does.

    and something we should accept because that's just players having fun,  
    This is now you putting words in my mouth, show me where ive said we should accept it? again another false accusation because you are wrong.

    that many players are still playing within the rules and are honest,  
    You seem to over look that i am one of those players, i made a mistake in the past and once it was cleared up for me i put a stop to it. I did not intentionally "cheat" but thought i was able to do so (as many others also did) 5 years ago the rules were not so clear and spelt out in easy terms on the forums for us all as they are now. its been 5 years since i "cheated" (or as it is, made a mistake) and you seem to be holding this part of your argument on that... when they made marijuana class-a from class-b did the law go out and recharge the past offenders for the new higher sentence???
    Odins Fury - The legend lives on

    When you dare with me,
    You dare with Death.
  • OxO (AU1)OxO (AU1) Posts: 962
    I see most people here have focused this on GGS(again), as a platform to complain. It's tiring reading all the whinging on the forum and in-game chat.

    I thought the original post was interesting and what we should all be reading and taking away from it is -

    "This is a game and its purpose is for you to have fun, so stop worrying about the others that are doign what not and focus on yourself to have fun... if you feel people are sucking the fun out of the game for you by using these methods then maybe its time to think about a new way to have fun".

    So many of you sound like you're not enjoying the game. Maybe go outside, enjoy something real. Stop putting so much emphasis into a singular entity such as GGE. Just a (free!!!) game, folks. You don't have to be here.
    Gotta agree here, people'd enjoy themselves more if they worried about themselves



  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) Posts: 1,120GB1
    To be clear you cheated to gain an advantage you admitted that.  You still have that advantage over players such as myself who haven't cheated to gain an advantage.  Consequently you are ahead of where you should be in game terms as are a significant number of other players.  Propelling yourself up the rankings by taking short cuts puts you out of position allowing you to access sufficient advantage to slow and hold back the development of other honest and more skilled players who would otherwise be ahead of you. Even if they play out of their skins flat out over a long period of time they simply will not be able to catch you or indeed overtake you any time soon.  The reality is with even an average level of play unless you tank you will stay ahead.  The solution you originally proposed was for everyone to use the glitches and to cheat.  You then further sought to justify that by implying cheating is what happens in all games and is integral to success and that is endemic across all games.  To be fair I only play one online game this one but based on the players I have played with and against I don't believe it's true to imply the majority cheat.  That may be your experience but it isn't mine.   I am not okay with the implication that everybody cheats because it isn't true.  To imply that is simply wrong.   

    The failure of the terms of service to prevent this from happening which you so forcefully reminded us of (not one additional account 8 in your case which would massively speed up your development and hurt others development you targeted, who losing resources and waste time fighting fires would fall behind you.) creates an imbalance in development which clearly cannot be addressed in the game. If you play at the same level I play at and I play within the rules I will never overhaul you. What I would like to see given the recognition of breaches of the rules is a system of punishment which at least makes some effort to re balance or offset the degree of advantage gained through cheating or exploiting glitches. I personally don't think three hours, a day or a week offset six months, a year or couple of years of unfair advantage.  The range and scope of rule breaches has widen and I think GGE support teams should have a much broader range of punishment at their disposal than that.  They should be able to dock levels of both individuals players and alliances.  I doubt banning players works they'll just set up a new account in a new name but dropping a level 800 back to level 500 would send a crystal clear message that you will not be allowed to achieve an advatnage you didn't pay for or earn.  Also wouldn't financially see GGE make a loss.  And if players of the receiving end of that leave then fine.  It's their choice to give up an account they have invested money and time in. Time penalties don't work.  I believe level penalties would and could be tested on the test server.  From my perspective you already have the advantage and advantage that because I won't breach the rules I probably can't now offset.  Even a war people pay reparations interested to know how else you propose to make right the wrong you have done? 


        .   
    Batten @ en 1
This discussion has been closed.