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TORCHERERS vs KoN

27

Comments

  • I have seen all many many comments on this "War".  I have been here in various capacitiesfor a very long time.  It is too bad that GGE decided to delete/hide all of the old stings regarding the war.  There countless hours skimming through accusations, retorts, and attacks, and retaliative comments by both sides.

    Remember everyone, that this is a war game, however that with all GGEs new quests and campaigns, there is no time nor resources for most of u to participate.  Also remember, that in ANY war, it doesn't matte who is right, it matters who win!  the history will be recorded in History as the truth, regardless of circumstance, the beginnings, and the causes.  This "war" at this point is nothing more than the Clash of Egos, in which the 'loser' will be forver lost in the annuls of history.  (Who has heard of H.I.V.E. lately?)  To this end, thousands upon thousands of dollars are spent each month to get stronger, get better equipment, get more troops... etc.  (who - before this - has even heard of a Veteran Horror?) and GGE keeps coming up with Better troops (veteran everything now), better equipment (lvl 13(? ) gems???), an better packages..  War, folks, is a VERY profitable business.  (Think of arms dealers in Real World wars) ESPECIALLY if you are the only source of the weapons.

    Also, think about this:  if this was a full-scale war, neither side would be able to participate in any of the other campaigns (Berimond, Storm Islands, etc.) nor would any of them have the energy to attack folks NOT on the side of the enemy.  (at least those that are "Neutral" would be hoping)

    Next, think of the ramifications of statements like :"KoN wanted to take over the server".    Ask yourself, WHAT is the benefit of that, other than the prize of an inflated Ego?  (welll................ i suppose that could be it)  but then again; without wars, there would be no activity other than the occasional Robber Baron, etc.  But that's no fun.  in the mindset of an egomaniac, there HAS to be someone to oppress, otherwise there would be no fuel.

    and to be honest, i would not be surpriosed it this is a GGE sanctioned event.  The reason is that it would be EASY to stop this.Suspend all ruby purchasing; let EVERYONE be on a level playing field (not just those that can afford it); and see who the TRUE players are.  If everyone took 3 1/2 hours to heal troops, this war would be at a standstill.  

    This is just my opinion.
    No problem with your post at all.  Just had one thing to comment on:

    "If everyone took 3 1/2 hours to heal troops, this war would be at a standstill."
    I do not find this to be true at all.  Ruby and non-ruby players alike get by with feasting and recruiting, not by healing from the hospital.  What you would see, is a war fought between people with time and skill, as opposed to people with just time and money.  The pace would not change, though our enemies would have to change their strategy.
    I don't think people would have to change their strategy because of healing troops money would still be the winning key to wars and. The pace would not change, and the strategy wouldn't too just because it takes people longer to heal troops. 
    "To be or not to be" William Shakespeare 
    PROUD NON-RUBY BUYER
    <[Haythem<>Kenway]>
    Member of Hellbent Brave, sub of Hellbent (now Fluffy Unicorns)
    Former Member of Horde
    PROUD OPPOSER OF KoN 
    Server USA1







  • I think he was implying the other sides use of ruby purchases to help with healing and new troops is an important part of their strategy. So important that they may have to reinvent their strategy to survive. (Did I get that right?)

    I almost clicked lol. Then I remembered who is on his side and couldn't figure out if it was just being cheeky or a reflectionary statement. 
    WiseDaniel @ usa 1
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    You hit the nail on the head, WiseDaniel!
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • I have seen all many many comments on this "War".  I have been here in various capacitiesfor a very long time.  It is too bad that GGE decided to delete/hide all of the old stings regarding the war.  There countless hours skimming through accusations, retorts, and attacks, and retaliative comments by both sides.

    Remember everyone, that this is a war game, however that with all GGEs new quests and campaigns, there is no time nor resources for most of u to participate.  Also remember, that in ANY war, it doesn't matte who is right, it matters who win!  the history will be recorded in History as the truth, regardless of circumstance, the beginnings, and the causes.  This "war" at this point is nothing more than the Clash of Egos, in which the 'loser' will be forver lost in the annuls of history.  (Who has heard of H.I.V.E. lately?)  To this end, thousands upon thousands of dollars are spent each month to get stronger, get better equipment, get more troops... etc.  (who - before this - has even heard of a Veteran Horror?) and GGE keeps coming up with Better troops (veteran everything now), better equipment (lvl 13(? ) gems???), an better packages..  War, folks, is a VERY profitable business.  (Think of arms dealers in Real World wars) ESPECIALLY if you are the only source of the weapons.

    Also, think about this:  if this was a full-scale war, neither side would be able to participate in any of the other campaigns (Berimond, Storm Islands, etc.) nor would any of them have the energy to attack folks NOT on the side of the enemy.  (at least those that are "Neutral" would be hoping)

    Next, think of the ramifications of statements like :"KoN wanted to take over the server".    Ask yourself, WHAT is the benefit of that, other than the prize of an inflated Ego?  (welll................ i suppose that could be it)  but then again; without wars, there would be no activity other than the occasional Robber Baron, etc.  But that's no fun.  in the mindset of an egomaniac, there HAS to be someone to oppress, otherwise there would be no fuel.

    and to be honest, i would not be surpriosed it this is a GGE sanctioned event.  The reason is that it would be EASY to stop this.Suspend all ruby purchasing; let EVERYONE be on a level playing field (not just those that can afford it); and see who the TRUE players are.  If everyone took 3 1/2 hours to heal troops, this war would be at a standstill.  

    This is just my opinion.
    No problem with your post at all.  Just had one thing to comment on:

    "If everyone took 3 1/2 hours to heal troops, this war would be at a standstill."
    I do not find this to be true at all.  Ruby and non-ruby players alike get by with feasting and recruiting, not by healing from the hospital.  What you would see, is a war fought between people with time and skill, as opposed to people with just time and money.  The pace would not change, though our enemies would have to change their strategy.
    Change their strategy? You have said it yourself that MISC is able to keep their property because they use macros on alts with laptop open 24/7 and just recruit KG's constantly... Whether they just use alts to recruit or whether they use macros for recruitment it really won't change their strategy... it would change KoN's... Going from buying to recruiting and healing... MISC would just keep recruiting defenders and would be able to make more attacks... It really sounds like you are saying that MISC are the heavy buyers... that clearly is false... false according to fact, and false according to your own messages to me involving macros or whatever you call them.
    Retired Recruiter of BattleHorn
    GIF
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    edited 30.12.2015
    Change their strategy? You have said it yourself that MISC is able to keep their property because they use macros on alts with laptop open 24/7 and just recruit KG's constantly... Whether they just use alts to recruit or whether they use macros for recruitment it really won't change their strategy... it would change KoN's... Going from buying to recruiting and healing... MISC would just keep recruiting defenders and would be able to make more attacks... It really sounds like you are saying that MISC are the heavy buyers... that clearly is false... false according to fact, and false according to your own messages to me involving macros or whatever you call them.
    I see you have taken our private discussions to the public.  I'll try not to do that with your own comments outside of just this conversation, not a big deal I guess, I just wish you didn't misconstrue what I was saying to you, or what it meant regarding the posts above.  I get the feeling from your PMs that you're not 100% familiar with how the endgame works, so maybe I should have elaborated more in my replies to you.  At least I didn't say anything embarrassing or send you nude manatee photos.  You asked me if I was a guy or a girl, and I can tell you I'm all guy.  No nudes for you!  (Or if I send you any, they're going to be of Bea Arthur.)

    The comment about alts and possible uses of scripts came about in response to you acknowledging to me how inactive most of Torcherer's accounts were.  I responded that I did not think they brought in all of those lower levels and shell accounts to make them look 'full' since I don't think they care about that.  Instead, I said it was likely done so their use of them as alts, bot accounts, and what-have-you could fill up their remaining towers with KGs.  As long as they maintain some towers (or have access to some pretty quickly), they continue to buy themselves a little more time.  But if they don't also have access to lots of attackers (whether by recruiting or ruby buys), its' no good.  Shutting down the ability to purchase anything in this game would cause a major strategy shift for them.  It would probably affect GK and FT the least.

    So in regard to my previous post you were replying to:
    Maintaining KGs for the towers is only half the picture.  The other half is that when they need to attack (to knock off a serious cap, or to retake a tower) many of them currently need to buy troops.  Admittedly not MU so much as Torcherers.  But if ruby buys are no longer in the picture, then I don't think there are enough active individuals left in Torcherers to recruit both massing armies and maintain 90k tower defenses at the same time.  Either they'd need new blood (not new castles, but actual players) to make that work, or they need to consolidate what they have with MU or FT, because some kind of strategy shift would need to occur if rubies were suddenly out of the picture.  It might simply be that they let the towers go and let MU try and snatch them up, I don't know, it's all conjecture.  What I can tell you though, is if purchases disappear, then they are not going to be able to rely on military hospitals, nor are they going to be able to rely on spending all that time slow-recruiting both defense AND offense from the shell accounts.

    In terms of who buys the most troops, it depends how you're looking at it: are you looking at it in terms of total numbers of players?  Or what percent of active members do so?  Our side probably owns the former scenario, we still have so many actives in our families.  But their side overwhelmingly owns the latter scenario.  In fact, of the 3 active players they have left, 7 of them buy ruby armies every time.  That's 233% of them! (yes, that's a bad joke... sue me!)
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Now that got a LOL in the first paragraph. 

    While you two have your big boy conversation, I'll just throw out that perception matters. 

    We all have stories of being bullied around by server war participants (us too, had a level 50 steal a RV but couldn't do anything about it without "joining sides").  Those of us around long enough to remember the whole spreadsheet and "friends of KoN" stuff have a bad taste.  We were told to follow fair play and we'd get it back. Then we get our RVs stolen, OPs attacked and "glory hit" by lesser players who hide behind much better players who blindly support them. They take a RV it's a "war game". We try to retake it, we're violating fair play and "picking sides".

    That gets coupled with massive ruby purchases from the top. Certain players PP swinging wildly every night, obvious changes in castle upkeep and an obscenely high level hall of legends (who the hell actually upgrades that?).

    So if I had to have a gut reaction to the question what would happen if ruby purchases went away? DT would thrive, GK would do well, MISC would return.  WoK would rise. KoN proper would take a massive hit. The big indies (Hellbent, Camelot, TNP, BF etc..don't mean to forget anyone) would be huge winners.

    But again, that is ALL perception. 
    WiseDaniel @ usa 1
  • Now that got a LOL in the first paragraph. 

    While you two have your big boy conversation, I'll just throw out that perception matters. 

    We all have stories of being bullied around by server war participants (us too, had a level 50 steal a RV but couldn't do anything about it without "joining sides").  Those of us around long enough to remember the whole spreadsheet and "friends of KoN" stuff have a bad taste.  We were told to follow fair play and we'd get it back. Then we get our RVs stolen, OPs attacked and "glory hit" by lesser players who hide behind much better players who blindly support them. They take a RV it's a "war game". We try to retake it, we're violating fair play and "picking sides".

    That gets coupled with massive ruby purchases from the top. Certain players PP swinging wildly every night, obvious changes in castle upkeep and an obscenely high level hall of legends (who the hell actually upgrades that?).

    So if I had to have a gut reaction to the question what would happen if ruby purchases went away? DT would thrive, GK would do well, MISC would return.  WoK would rise. KoN proper would take a massive hit. The big indies (Hellbent, Camelot, TNP, BF etc..don't mean to forget anyone) would be huge winners.

    But again, that is ALL perception. 
    Only problem with the second to last paragraph is that GGE won't let ruby purchases go away because that is it's source of income and fat. GGE is greedy for money (like many rich people or companies) and they don't care what is going on inside GGE as long as they are earning money. I bet if you asked a manager of GGS they would say WTF is KoN or WTF is the server war?
    "To be or not to be" William Shakespeare 
    PROUD NON-RUBY BUYER
    <[Haythem<>Kenway]>
    Member of Hellbent Brave, sub of Hellbent (now Fluffy Unicorns)
    Former Member of Horde
    PROUD OPPOSER OF KoN 
    Server USA1







  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    True Haythem.  But we're just having some fun inserting our own little what-ifs.  We know it will never happen.

    Though I assure you everyone at GGE knows what the server war is.  It's hard not to notice one of the major sources of your own revenue for months on end (though that revenue stream has changed these last few months since fewer rubies have been needed for war, and more are spent by all alliances server-wide for the pve events)
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    A lot of good points ben.

    I've been wondering if GGE would update metros at some point to be worth 400 food each, or perhaps worth 1,000 extra food but not stackable.  And if the capitals would allow the recruitment of the troops equivalent to high end berimond troops (the attackers and the vet composites and vet flamebearers).

    I guess time will tell.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Now that got a LOL in the first paragraph. 

    While you two have your big boy conversation, I'll just throw out that perception matters. 

    We all have stories of being bullied around by server war participants (us too, had a level 50 steal a RV but couldn't do anything about it without "joining sides").  Those of us around long enough to remember the whole spreadsheet and "friends of KoN" stuff have a bad taste.  We were told to follow fair play and we'd get it back. Then we get our RVs stolen, OPs attacked and "glory hit" by lesser players who hide behind much better players who blindly support them. They take a RV it's a "war game". We try to retake it, we're violating fair play and "picking sides".

    That gets coupled with massive ruby purchases from the top. Certain players PP swinging wildly every night, obvious changes in castle upkeep and an obscenely high level hall of legends (who the hell actually upgrades that?).

    So if I had to have a gut reaction to the question what would happen if ruby purchases went away? DT would thrive, GK would do well, MISC would return.  WoK would rise. KoN proper would take a massive hit. The big indies (Hellbent, Camelot, TNP, BF etc..don't mean to forget anyone) would be huge winners.

    But again, that is ALL perception. 
    I would like to point at that me and Manatee have different backgrounds and different views of the true enemy of this war. That doesn't mean we don't like each other... at times there may be some salt shed but I still consider Manatee a good friend, regardless if he decides to war me because I speak freely on the forums about my Nephilim opinions yet keep my alliance neutral.

    But as for the rest of the post, I do agree to a fair extent. WoK is a hit or miss, they have heavy recruiters and players that have learned to be elite with few rubies aswell as major ruby buyers. KoN main would look like hell, TORCH wouldn't really "rise again", but M:U and TFT would DEFINITELY grow in power. 

    In the early months of the war Neph and their allies were able to easily grow in numbers, they are the dominant force and alot of people want of players want to be apart of the dominant force. The war to many was very interesting and everyone was excited to see how it would play out, but now everyone despises of the war. It just places restrictions on everyone else and it isn't a fun glorious war anymore. Now it is just a war of salt and a pool of money for GGE.

    So in those days Neph and allies could recruit in the masses. But now people are weary of the war. And with GGS introducing PVE more and more Indy alliances are now more sought after. Hellbent is the superforce. I am positive if they joined the war Neph will be dwindled down to a MISC, the diehard tryhards will remain in the few Neph mammoth alliances and be MISC all over again. The reason I say Hellbent would dropkick neph is because if Hellbent joined, loads of other neutrals would join. It is a large alliance and if Hellbent falls then you can imagine what the leaderboards would look like... Now everyone has 10x the reason to fear Neph. If Hellbent Joined everyone would fear their independence as an alliance as would then join with Hellbent to overthrow Nephilim.

    Neph is so full of ruby players that once Neph begins their decline of power, many of them would leave. More players want to spend rubies on PVE not a war. Neph still picks up fanboys like Coolking and of course all the ruby players that aren't level 70. Like I find it odd that all the big ruby players of Reborn end up in a Neph or Neph ally alliance... Ruby players fit in with other ruby players. But alot of ruby players don't want to use their rubies on war so once Neph was challenged again then many of them would start searching for the Indy alliances again.

    People just want to stay out of Nephs way. But once a large Neutral is pushed into this war, many will follow.

    Retired Recruiter of BattleHorn
    GIF
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    edited 31.12.2015
    I would like to point at that me and Manatee have different backgrounds and different views of the true enemy of this war. That doesn't mean we don't like each other... at times there may be some salt shed but I still consider Manatee a good friend, regardless if he decides to war me because I speak freely on the forums about my Nephilim opinions yet keep my alliance neutral.

    If you're worried about me warring you for things you say on here, don't be.

    Typically what you'll see from me is an attempt to keep something from being skewed out of context, or to protect the real intent or meaning of something when someone else tries to sabotage it.  Though I do have fun turning someone's manipulations against them from time to time, it's amusing :)  But I don't get angry or vengeful because regardless of how old everyone is on here, I pretend they are my coworkers who I'm going to have a beer with after the war.  Compartmentalize it, it's just a game and a posting board.

    It doesn't mean I'm less annoying, but it does mean my whole perspective on GGE and these forums in general is healthy.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • I would like to point at that me and Manatee have different backgrounds and different views of the true enemy of this war. That doesn't mean we don't like each other... at times there may be some salt shed but I still consider Manatee a good friend, regardless if he decides to war me because I speak freely on the forums about my Nephilim opinions yet keep my alliance neutral.

    If you're worried about me warring you for things you say on here, don't be.

    Typically what you'll see from me is an attempt to keep something from being skewed out of context, or to protect the real intent or meaning of something when someone else tries to sabotage it.  Though I do have fun turning someone's manipulations against them from time to time, it's amusing :)  But I don't get angry or vengeful because regardless of how old everyone is on here, I pretend they are my coworkers who I'm going to have a beer with after the war.  Compartmentalize it, it's just a game and a posting board.

    It doesn't mean I'm less annoying, but it does mean my whole perspective on GGE and these forums in general is healthy.
    Now that is why I like you. "Have a beer with after the war".

    At least GK is in war because somewhere in their odd minds they still think it is fun, not because they are bound by a year long grudge match where the ammunition is salt salt salt salt.
    Retired Recruiter of BattleHorn
    GIF
  • I don't know much of the server war, but what side is GK in? KoN's or not KoN's?
    "To be or not to be" William Shakespeare 
    PROUD NON-RUBY BUYER
    <[Haythem<>Kenway]>
    Member of Hellbent Brave, sub of Hellbent (now Fluffy Unicorns)
    Former Member of Horde
    PROUD OPPOSER OF KoN 
    Server USA1







  • GK is with KON


    When Corm was getting farmed. Good Ol'e Days
  • I remember H.I.V.E. dominating on my old account like a year ago but then I quit for a while and now they are gone.
    "To be or not to be" William Shakespeare 
    PROUD NON-RUBY BUYER
    <[Haythem<>Kenway]>
    Member of Hellbent Brave, sub of Hellbent (now Fluffy Unicorns)
    Former Member of Horde
    PROUD OPPOSER OF KoN 
    Server USA1







  • KoN, Dream Team and The MISC I recon were the trio that shut down HIVE. KoN convinced MISC or something rather because there was like corruption or something, then on November 1st (That is when I am told that official war started) of 2014 KoN and MISC were at war (KoN betrayed MISC) Dream Team joined in later and KoN was actually kind of loosing, then GK jumped in and saved the pitiful KoN. Now the war is over a year old, won't end anytime soon and makes the game awful for the rest of us.
    Retired Recruiter of BattleHorn
    GIF
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    KoN, Dream Team and The MISC I recon were the trio that shut down HIVE. KoN convinced MISC or something rather because there was like corruption or something, then on November 1st (That is when I am told that official war started) of 2014 KoN and MISC were at war (KoN betrayed MISC) Dream Team joined in later and KoN was actually kind of loosing, then GK jumped in and saved the pitiful KoN. Now the war is over a year old, won't end anytime soon and makes the game awful for the rest of us.
    You couldn't have given a better MISC-side version of events if you tried, lol.

    GK's version goes like this:
    Morentz stopped having his ruby whales buy rubies for our members, and refused to acknowledge Festivus, so we ordered KoN to take them out.  It would have been too quick and painless though, and we wanted to have some fun - so we asked DT to step in and add a little more "oomph" to MISC's efforts.
    FT and D8 never entered the war.  All battle reports you've seen from them are photo shopped, so were their forum posts.
    GK decided to enter the war directly when GGE stopped allowing us to change the game rules and gave those rights to Morentz instead.  *grumble grumble*
    Those independent alliances out there are really our (GK's) subs.  All of them.  

    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • KoN, Dream Team and The MISC I recon were the trio that shut down HIVE. KoN convinced MISC or something rather because there was like corruption or something, then on November 1st (That is when I am told that official war started) of 2014 KoN and MISC were at war (KoN betrayed MISC) Dream Team joined in later and KoN was actually kind of loosing, then GK jumped in and saved the pitiful KoN. Now the war is over a year old, won't end anytime soon and makes the game awful for the rest of us.
    You couldn't have given a better MISC-side version of events if you tried, lol.

    GK's version goes like this:
    Morentz stopped having his ruby whales buy rubies for our members, and refused to acknowledge Festivus, so we ordered KoN to take them out.  It would have been too quick and painless though, and we wanted to have some fun - so we asked DT to step in and add a little more "oomph" to MISC's efforts.
    FT and D8 never entered the war.  All battle reports you've seen from them are photo shopped, so were their forum posts.
    GK decided to enter the war directly when GGE stopped allowing us to change the game rules and gave those rights to Morentz instead.  *grumble grumble*
    Those independent alliances out there are really our (GK's) subs.  All of them.  

    Why do I have a feeling that is 100% not how it went...

    And I actually got alot of my info from Vendetta, except without the bias against KoN part...
    Retired Recruiter of BattleHorn
    GIF
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    hehe
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • TannerM. (US1)TannerM. (US1) US1 Posts: 2,695
    You couldn't have given a better MISC-side version of events if you tried, lol.

    GK's version goes like this:
    Morentz stopped having his ruby whales buy rubies for our members, and refused to acknowledge Festivus, so we ordered KoN to take them out.  It would have been too quick and painless though, and we wanted to have some fun - so we asked DT to step in and add a little more "oomph" to MISC's efforts.
    FT and D8 never entered the war.  All battle reports you've seen from them are photo shopped, so were their forum posts.
    GK decided to enter the war directly when GGE stopped allowing us to change the game rules and gave those rights to Morentz instead.  *grumble grumble*
    Those independent alliances out there are really our (GK's) subs.  All of them.  

    Very accurate account of events, thank you sir.  
    nHIylr9gif = The battle plan

    The Ningdom now and forever - Serry 

    Hion has a small dink
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