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Discussion Thread: War Declarations and Tribute Demands



  • Giselle3Giselle3 Posts: 243
    edited 21.05.2014
    we don't see why it would not work.

    This? This right here is what we've been jumping up and down yelling at you for years... and yes I said years. CoMas and developers may create this game and throw it over the wall, but unless you do one of two things:
    • Play this game heavily yourselves to see how it is actually implemented and participate in the social interactions and norms that develop as part of everyday gameplay
    • Actively request and take information provided by the community about the game play

    You will continue to fall into this trap... and I have seen it for years with you guys. You toss out an update and then cannot understand why we get upset and why this causes heartache and wasted hours of our lives and yours. This whole exercise was a show of stupidity. Rather than get feedback from probably 20 active members (or yourselves if you truly played the game anywhere other than in bad accts or on test servers) you would have learned INSTANTLY why this was a crappy idea and update... heck if you had provided it at the idea phase we could have saved you hundreds of hours of concept, coding, testing, communications labor costs.

    Not to mention the anger and thus breakdown in the community's trust in you guys.

    You want to know the funniest thing about this game? Very few players talk nor play on other servers (I have played on 3 over the years) and while there are minor fluctuations of server personalities, people are people and how we interpret and play the game within the game tends to be pretty damn close... and so when you come in and tell us we don't understand... it's highly offensive, because the reality is it's YOU who doesn't understand if you don't take the time to really understand your game on a day-to-day basis. If we say "this won't work" trust us to not be blowing smoke up your ***.

    I'm not a massive gamer, but the two games where I got to see the interaction with developers and the gaming community (Minecraft and EverquestNext) and how they handle their community vs GGS is like night and day. There is no contentious set-up as those guys get it... they know that the community only wants the game to be good and freakin' hell, that's what they want as well. so why doesn't GGS see it that way?

    You guys truly don't get the consumer end of this game, and it has shot you in the foot repeatedly.

    I'd say this time you may learn, but you sadly I know you won't. I've been on this merry-go-round too many times and I won't fall for it yet again. You're doomed to repeat this and you're doomed to piss off your customers and you're doomed to waste your time (and ours) with updates that don't work in your own damned game.
  • Battannia (GB1)Battannia (GB1) Posts: 39
    edited 21.05.2014
    WELL SAID!… They may make it…... they may break it!….. but we play it!
  • Jo:OJo:O Posts: 3
    edited 21.05.2014
    I think we all know the general response to this new update - "bad, bad, bad" etc.

    I don't wish to condemn GGE for their actions; I don't consider this the "deathnote" of the game, nor am I going to leave because of it. GGE has done plenty of excellent updates in the past, and even some of the ones that have just came out, like the lower thresholds for aquamarine for the smaller alliances, have been made in response to much of the feedback that has been on this very forum. So I am happy to see that GGE has paid much heed to the opinions of its players.

    That being said, I, like many others, would like to voice my concern for the new Automatic Declaration of War and the tribute system. My understanding is that these two updates were created as a way to 1) increase the realism of the game and 2) encourage combat between alliances. I understand that the reluctance to get attacked back after attacking another player has caused some players to reduce the amount of attacking as they rise in level, but by no means do they stop attacking altogether.

    In fact, this update further discourages many of the mid-size alliances (like mine) from engaging in any combat for fear that a declaration of war may mislead larger size alliances to attack us and stress out our alliance and its members. This is cemented by the fact that many smaller alliances are also aligned with large alliance teams(through pacts and NAAs) which can rapidly lead to misunderstanding. And then the tribute system is one that can easily be abused.

    In the past there were times I was attacked and threatened of being attacked again if I did not pay a set resource "tribute". I did pay the "tribute", and I was fine with that, as it was a reasonable part of the game. However, the actual forcing of alliances to pay tribute can easily destroy alliances that have for months piled up many resources to be shared among members, and if these are lost (especially for mid size or small alliances), the anguish and disappointment is too much to handle.

    There's certainly more to say, but I'm that the players around here share my feelings for this new update and I hope that GGE will make the necessary amendments to their updates (as they have always done) to satisfy the gaming community.


    this is exactly the problem, please do something about this or me team and i will quit!
  • danceshadowdanceshadow Posts: 43
    edited 21.05.2014
    Thank you gg for taking away the auto update but no thank you for keeping the resource grabbing tribute and for actually considering to bring the auto war back, have you not seen the comments?
  • gagaga2gagaga2 Posts: 1
    edited 21.05.2014
    GGE gets "NO THANKS" from me even with the removal of the auto war. They should have listen to the community in the first place and not implement this ridiculous update. They did it because they thought that it would generate wars and thus more ruby spending. Unfortunately, what happens is that the players just didn't bother to send out attacks to trigger the auto war. So, instead of more rubies being spent, there was actually less rubies since players who normally send out attacks were not attacking. The removal of the auto war was all about the ruby expenditures, folks. This is not GGE listening to the players and deciding this is in the best interest of the players. It's all about RUBIES...
  • zolton9 (US1)zolton9 (US1) Posts: 15
    edited 21.05.2014
    They are forcing unreasonable spending on the game. I have a monthly stipend that I will no longer be spending on the game. Money is the only thing they seem to listen to so if enough of us do this they will change it back or lose many of us.

    I am against the War Declarations and Tribute Demands Update. Please revoke. Also if you are against this too add it to your Signature so that GGE will realize that we don't want it!
  • ross10877ross10877 Posts: 8
    edited 21.05.2014
    So please explain that if 99.9% of the players don't like the tribute system either why you would keep it. Do you not like that idea of keeping your customers happy?
  • tmm777tmm777 Posts: 70
    edited 21.05.2014
    Thank you for listening, but the Tributes could use some tweaking though! I did not like the rubies being apart of that so you removed the rubies. Now you need to tweak it to where we say how much resource can be given or taken. This would be more viable and fair for all players and discourage abuse. I am still on the fence as to whether I will come back in light of the new announcement. Its a start. You regain my trust and put your heads back on straight, I might come back.
  • danceshadowdanceshadow Posts: 43
    edited 21.05.2014
    we wanted the WHOLE UPDATE to go not HALF OF THE UPDATE to go.
  • Shrock2Shrock2 Posts: 182
    edited 21.05.2014
    Good to see the auto-war declarations go.
    But I'm not very fond of the tributes either..
  • joost321 (NL1)joost321 (NL1) Posts: 52
    edited 21.05.2014
    Thanx for removing the automatic war GGS, but please don't bring it back in an altered form, the last 3000 posts made it clear its not wanted and not needed.
    The tribute-system is still on and that is not desired in the current form either.
    please remove the tribute system and not let it stay till you found a way to make it acceptable for the players.
    The tribute system is now a tool for extortion it can be changed to something acceptable but get it out of the system till you have a better one.

    - for example change it so that the allaince who declares war can't ask a tribute so its no longer a tool for bullying, and the allaince who is declared war to can use the tribute for the damage they got out of that war. the max of the tribute must be set also. reasonable amounts. and when the maximum tribute is small it is not usefull for shoving funds between allainces because after every time it is used you have to wait before you can use it again. therefore the transportcosts can be reduced als.

    Either change it the right way or remove it.

    Untill the tribute system is removed or changed in an acceptable way our alliance will not buy rubies
  • ManiachistManiachist Posts: 32
    edited 21.05.2014
    I have a great idea. If GGS want to improve their bottom line, they should do some analysis on how much money has been wasted programming unpopular updates and getting into disputes with their customers. They can then cut their costs accordingly. It's simple: listen to your customers, only program what's popular, cut back on staff that aren't needed (the arrogant ones who don't listen) . C'mon, where's that famous German efficiency?
  • Golgatha (US1)Golgatha (US1) Posts: 6
    edited 21.05.2014
    It would seem to me you would want to get more people to buy rubies than drive them out of the game. Every update has been for big alliances. Nothing to get mid sized alliances able to compete or small ones to mid size. Too bad you were already named game of the year. After this one you would be lucky to get any votes.
  • Free-K1LLFree-K1LL Posts: 5
    edited 21.05.2014
    We still believe that the Tribute System holds a valuable and exciting addition to the game... we don't see why it would not work.

    Also, I would like to add, to clear up any confusion, that this decision to remove the Automatic War Declaration has nothing to do with any changes in Ruby Purchases.

    First, let me ask HOW you don't see why it wouldn't work? There's 150+ pages of SEETHING comments about how it can and will be abused, and how we, your customers, don't want it. Many of us are threatening to quit, or to never again buy rubies.

    Second, the claim that the effect on Ruby purchases don't affect your decision-making is bullsh*t. Ruby purchases make up at least a portion of your paychecks; if they drop, so does your pay. It's extremely patronizing to have you say that, and equally foolish to expect us to believe you when we know our decision to stop buying rubies will directly affect your wallets.

    You've removed the auto-war declarations as we have demanded, good. Keep it that way. As Steve has said, your goal is to create conflict, and I guess I can respect that, but forcing the issue like this will only alienate your customers; you will create conflict between yourselves and us. That 'feature' belongs in a fire, and I assure you, if you bring it back in ANY form it will spell the imminent end of the game.
    ManasRuler wrote: »
    They are removing the auto war declaration
    but that was after 95+ pages of scathing comments
    they were slow on the uptake, but at least they did it

    Frankly, being so slow on the uptake only makes me even more seething mad.

    GGS had plenty of feedback BEFORE implementing this (I would have given my own earlier, had there been any sort of in-game announcement LIKE THERE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FOR SUCH A GAME-CHANGING UPDATE). In the form of 90+ pages of positively LIVID comments, we let you know, in no uncertain terms, that we DO NOT want it, yet you still felt the need to just CRAM IT DOWN OUR THROATS?? Not only that, but when it apparently overtaxed your servers, you take it down for "Further evaluation." No. That is not what we wanted. We wanted it GONE. Throw it in the fire, and never mention it again. EVER!
  • AWC  (US1)AWC (US1) US1 Posts: 348
    edited 21.05.2014
    GGS thank you for listening too the community and removing the Ruby and Auto War Declaration. Much appreciated.
  • Plinius100Plinius100 Posts: 1
    edited 21.05.2014
    Sorry developers this update makes no sence. All members off little BG's are upset. Please undo this update and let us play fair en straight.
  • Cajsa (US1)Cajsa (US1) Posts: 46
    edited 21.05.2014
    Stating that "this decision to remove the Automatic War Declaration has nothing to do with any changes in Ruby Purchases" does nothing to restore people's confidence in GGS. If it is true, it is a declaration that GGS did not and will not listen to player feedback since the refusal to purchase rubies was a direct form of feedback. Of course, it is more likely untrue and standard corporate face-saving since no one likes to admit they were forced to make changes by customer demands.

    It would have been better to say nothing than to put GGS in such an unflattering light.

    I am glad the auto-war declaration has been revoked, but do not feel as enthusiastic about the game as I once did and most of that comes from the condescending "we know best" rationales and defenses of the update from GGS staff. People here in the forums told GGS that this would be a mail/recordkeeping nightmare before it happened. Perhaps this will persuade GGS that the people who actually play the game with their own time and their own money and not on company time and accounts might know more about game play than those who risk nothing of their own - but I doubt considering they claim they will bring back the auto war when they figure out how to reduce the amount of mail it generates. Or is that another face-saving false claim?
  • DeantrotterDeantrotter Posts: 15
    edited 21.05.2014
    the auto wars gone now all that's left that needs to go is the tribute part
  • Chris2307 (GB1)Chris2307 (GB1) Posts: 944
    edited 21.05.2014
    And, if you decide to try and implement this again, we don't want this implemented again in any way, shape or form. Why on earth would you say such a thing?

    Because their post implies that they are planning to implement it again in some manifested way. Better to tackle the elephant in the room head on then to carry on ignoring it like some will.

    Would you rather ignore it and let GGS come up with a new manifestation of the auto-war feature that we all don't like again or would you prefer to directly communicate with GGS (now) in order to try and get our opinions listened to?

    I'd love it to be scrapped all together. I merely ask that if it's not to be scrapped then we are all consulted much earlier on with perhaps a survey (like the German speaking message board got).
  • Peter John (US1)Peter John (US1) US1 Posts: 838
    edited 21.05.2014
    ...We still believe that the Tribute System holds a valuable and exciting addition to the game. Of course, we will continue to analyse how it works within the game itself, but since there are no Rubies involved, we don't see why it would not work....

    Nice job keep eluding the main issue. GGS has stated for years that BOTH coin & ruby shall never be transferable. Now even with the Ruby is removed, the coin is STILL transferable. I personally don't have any issue with resource tribute, but STILL HAS ISSUE with coin tribute.

    Resource transfer is already possible via market barrow, but coin transfer were not possible before and now made possible. Coin is the currency of the game, GGS keep asserting themselves the important of coin and don't want to have abundant coin (pls confer to GGS decision to reduce coin intake from effect of loot bonus equipment). So GGS made a position where coin, along with ruby, shall never be transferable. But now you practically twist your own stance by allowing coin as a part of the tribute.

    Coin is the hardest part after Ruby, for a small alliance to keep it grow in the alliance treasury. Allowing this to be depleted via tribute, will kill the growth of small alliances.

    The counter argument given by your developer who introduce the update, that we can deplete it to avoid to be tributed, is just a full load of cr@P. The alliance may not have enough coin to buy in next upgrade, so there goes the way of depleting it but just poof as tribute.
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