Technicus is really out of scale!

DenmanDenman Posts: 428
I spent all my coins on the technicus to try and get a upgrade that was 12% I tried 28 times and it didn't work! I have no coins and no improvements! I Think that this is out of scale even if its randomly generated! GGE you should seriously change the technicus so that it gives fairer reward and so the chance of improvement is more correct! Its not just me that thinks that the technicus is under rewarding it users! I think that GGE should look at the code and they will see that its a bug!
I consider my troops to be money, that goes out and takes prisoners, that then in turn goes out an takes more prisoners!
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Post edited by Denman on
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Comments

  • Eric768 (US1)Eric768 (US1) Posts: 7,183US1
    edited 05.10.2013
    I think the technicus is one of the most profitable items for GGE, because if you want to get a piece up and maxed, you will dish out the rubies to do so, or encounter a situation like you have described. I don't think they will change it, though I would appreciate a reduction in coin cost for making the piece better in the higher levels of the item ;) Most likely won't happen.. I remember I failed 4 times upgrading an item at 86% success rate, that was fun.
    Proud to have been one of the longest serving members on USA1
    Advocate of speaking up regarding mental health and seeking help
    ***Currently Retired from playing GGE***

    Rest well Jason; a fantastic player and an even greater person. Gone but not forgotten.
  • xJadetsssxxJadetsssx Posts: 5,983
    edited 05.10.2013
    Eric768 wrote: »
    I think the technicus is one of the most profitable items for GGE, because if you want to get a piece up and maxed, you will dish out the rubies to do so, or encounter a situation like you have described. I don't think they will change it, though I would appreciate a reduction in coin cost for making the piece better in the higher levels of the item ;) Most likely won't happen.. I remember I failed 4 times upgrading an item at 86% success rate, that was fun.

    Welcome to GGE, where percentages don't work and everything is made up. I also remember failing many many times upgrading a piece with a lot of "success" rate, I wonder what do GGS developers understand as "percentage".
    TD7ircx.png
    Does this looks like the face of mercy?

    Lurking the forums since 2011.
    xJadetsssx @ Ɩ ǝsɹǝʌıun
  • DenmanDenman Posts: 428
    edited 05.10.2013
    With poker machines it always has the same chance every time so its really unlikely that if the scale was correct that this would happen! if the technicus is going to remain with deceiving change I will not be playing as much and I will look for other games!

    this is a good game but I am not going to be collecting coins to have them wasted a like this!
    I consider my troops to be money, that goes out and takes prisoners, that then in turn goes out an takes more prisoners!
    11.jpg
  • RdrnnrRdrnnr Posts: 1,615
    edited 05.10.2013
    I know what you mean... 6 failures in a row at 70% success seems excessive, especially since it happened on two consecutive pieces of equipment...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Maximum angulo Inferno
  • anguspepperer (US1)anguspepperer (US1) Posts: 816
    edited 05.10.2013
    The technicus %s are wack, I honestly don't think it is possible to upgade a piece from level12 to level 13 without rubies
    Lift Heavy and Take a Multi
  • DenmanDenman Posts: 428
    edited 05.10.2013
    even if they don't give the current stated % and they just change the stated % to be the true % I would be Pleased!
    I consider my troops to be money, that goes out and takes prisoners, that then in turn goes out an takes more prisoners!
    11.jpg
  • Dun Gon (INT2)Dun Gon (INT2) Posts: 3,656
    edited 05.10.2013
    Denman wrote: »
    I spent all my coins on the technicus to try and get a upgrade that was 12% I tried 28 times and it didn't work! I have no coins and no improvements! I Think that this is out of scale even if its randomly generated! GGE you should seriously change the technicus so that it gives fairer reward and so the chance of improvement is more correct! Its not just me that thinks that the technicus is under rewarding it users! I think that GGE should look at the code and they will see that its a bug!

    And that, my friends is a classic example of the people who beg for coins! (No offence intended, I beg for coins too :(. And I do the same thing, lol!)
    Dun Gon @ WWW 2
    Retired from duties in September 2015.

    Once Leader of Phoenix Sword and the once prominent alliance empire, Phoenix. Proud member of now collapsed OU. All organizations mentioned above have collapsed or merged into other prominent alliances since. Co-founder of the Force family.

    "I have seen many wars fought through my four years on this server. I have seen families rise and fall. I have been members of prominent organizations in International 1 and International 2, and have played in United States 1 with my forum buddies as well. It has shown me many things, but mainly that every action that is partaken in this game and in the world can only be deemed right or wrong depending upon your perspective. Never pass the blame, fight hard to succeed. As a non-ruby player, I managed to create and nurture not one but two of the most successful alliance families in International 2. Believe, there is always another path. Success is determined by the amount of effort you are willing to put in"
  • kingbo returnskingbo returns Posts: 243
    edited 05.10.2013
    well it works for me but even though there back now i dont have coins recruit too many halberdier and longbowmen after capturing an outpost with lvl 5 barracks and im only lvl 15
    kingbo returns @ au 1

    they said this would stop alexander the great
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    except it didnt im never trusting anyone again
  • Petrus of CalviPetrus of Calvi Posts: 2
    edited 05.10.2013
    Suggestion for improving the Technicus. Allow players to pay more coins in order to improve the odds of upgrades. E.g. if trying to upgrade a level 10 equipment item to level 11 and chance of upgrade is maybe ~12%, one could pay twice as many coins to increase chance to 24%, three times many coins to 36%, four times to 48% ... and so on.

    Granted, I tend to agree with Eric768 that part of Technicus is to get players to spend rubies to reach maximum upgrade levels. But still, if my suggestion is adopted, maybe the maximum one can improve chances by paying coins to get upgrade might be 50%. After that, if one wants better chance then need to pay rubies.

    Finally, the real % chance of upgrade at low level upgrades does seem a bit out of whack. I too have had experiences where need 6 tries at 86% chance success to get upgrade. But that does not bother me too much (even if feels unfair) because cost of upgrade at this level is quite low (maybe pay 7-8K coins total on the six tries combined). Gets more painful when the stated chance of success (if believed) is 12% and need to pay 7-8K coins for each attempt ...

    PoC
    Petrus of Calvi @ WWW 1
  • kingbo returnskingbo returns Posts: 243
    edited 05.10.2013
    yeah probaly because i was lvl 12 more success judged by level also because i would have less coind but had 5000 :/
    kingbo returns @ au 1

    they said this would stop alexander the great
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    except it didnt im never trusting anyone again
  • xJadetsssxxJadetsssx Posts: 5,983
    edited 05.10.2013
    Suggestion for improving the Technicus. Allow players to pay more coins in order to improve the odds of upgrades. E.g. if trying to upgrade a level 10 equipment item to level 11 and chance of upgrade is maybe ~12%, one could pay twice as many coins to increase chance to 24%, three times many coins to 36%, four times to 48% ... and so on.

    Granted, I tend to agree with Eric768 that part of Technicus is to get players to spend rubies to reach maximum upgrade levels. But still, if my suggestion is adopted, maybe the maximum one can improve chances by paying coins to get upgrade might be 50%. After that, if one wants better chance then need to pay rubies.

    Finally, the real % chance of upgrade at low level upgrades does seem a bit out of whack. I too have had experiences where need 6 tries at 86% chance success to get upgrade. But that does not bother me too much (even if feels unfair) because cost of upgrade at this level is quite low (maybe pay 7-8K coins total on the six tries combined). Gets more painful when the stated chance of success (if believed) is 12% and need to pay 7-8K coins for each attempt ...

    PoC

    Doesn't sound bad, but knowing GGS probably you should pay coins until the chance is 110% so you feel safe you won't fail.
    TD7ircx.png
    Does this looks like the face of mercy?

    Lurking the forums since 2011.
    xJadetsssx @ Ɩ ǝsɹǝʌıun
  • RdrnnrRdrnnr Posts: 1,615
    edited 05.10.2013
    It's possible that the 100% scale of the technicus is linked to the 100% scale of espionage... In other words 100% isn't actually totally accurate ; )
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Maximum angulo Inferno
  • xJadetsssxxJadetsssx Posts: 5,983
    edited 05.10.2013
    Rdrnnr wrote: »
    It's possible that the 100% scale of the technicus is linked to the 100% scale of espionage... In other words 100% isn't actually totally accurate ; )

    I am fairly sure that is true. Go with 95% chance of succeeding an espionage and you feel like you are going with 20%.
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    Does this looks like the face of mercy?

    Lurking the forums since 2011.
    xJadetsssx @ Ɩ ǝsɹǝʌıun
  • Baldrick (GB1)Baldrick (GB1) Posts: 4,948
    edited 05.10.2013
    Ignore the percentages, they just aren't relevant to the real world when it comes to Empire. 100% find better items..... etc etc. None of the percentages in this game relate to any form of mathematics or statistics. They are just there because something needs to be.

    Here's what to do with percentages when using the Tecnicus: Decide on your personal budget and stick to it, and ignore anything with a % symbol after it.

    Bonus tip: Do not us the Technicus when drunk, it never ends well.

    Edit: Welcome back Jade :)
    It's been a while.....



  • xJadetsssxxJadetsssx Posts: 5,983
    edited 05.10.2013
    Baldrick wrote: »
    Ignore the percentages, they just aren't relevant to the real world when it comes to Empire. 100% find better items..... etc etc. None of the percentages in this game relate to any form of mathematics or statistics. They are just there because something needs to be.

    Here's what to do with percentages when using the Tecnicus: Decide on your personal budget and stick to it, and ignore anything with a % symbol after it.

    Bonus tip: Do not us the Technicus when drunk, it never ends well.

    Edit: Welcome back Jade :)

    Thanks for the welcome, and welcome back to you too Mr B. ^...^

    I still want to know what do GGS developers understand as a percentage?

    Percentage to GGS: Random Symbol used to trick people.
    TD7ircx.png
    Does this looks like the face of mercy?

    Lurking the forums since 2011.
    xJadetsssx @ Ɩ ǝsɹǝʌıun
  • Baldrick (GB1)Baldrick (GB1) Posts: 4,948
    edited 05.10.2013
    xJadetsssx wrote: »
    Thanks for the welcome, and welcome back to you too Mr B. ^...^

    I still want to know what do GGS developers understand as a percentage?

    Percentage to GGS: Random Symbol used to trick people.

    I think they just need to have something in there or it would look silly. If they showed how things really worked people would be less inclined to play/use the features/spend rubies.

    Handy tip of the day #67: Nothing is random in Empire, except percentages.
    It's been a while.....



  • kingbo returnskingbo returns Posts: 243
    edited 05.10.2013
    so if thats true you might as well blindly attack someone instead of wasting coins and recouces building taverns and spying
    kingbo returns @ au 1

    they said this would stop alexander the great
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    except it didnt im never trusting anyone again
  • xelanxelan Posts: 76
    edited 05.10.2013
    Upgraded to +13 today from the first attempt. Sometimes you are lucky, sometimes you are not, that’s how probability works. I wouldn’t be so sure saying that GGS doesn’t stick to Technicus percentages. Without huge set of statistics data those are just empty words.
    My point of view to waves mechanics: here

    weapon.1382280845.png

    xelan @ usa1
  • Baldrick (GB1)Baldrick (GB1) Posts: 4,948
    edited 05.10.2013
    so if thats true you might as well blindly attack someone instead of wasting coins and recouces building taverns and spying

    Well, this thread relates to the Technicus, not spying. The percentages on spy reports to have some accuracy, although it seems there are still flaws when using spy data to hit NPCs. Whether they are correct on player reports is anyone's guess. But there are certain areas of Empire where percentages are just plain wrong. The Technicus and the chance of finding better items are two of the most obvious.

    What I would like to know, and something that would be useful for us all is whether the percentages work out on average or not. Let's say it is predetermined that in order to upgrade a legendary item to +16 it will cost x coins. so althougn you may have bad luck in the lower upgrades, the total cost from +1 to +16 will always be the same. Also, if you have 10 unsuccessful attempts to upgrade an item, are these stored and registered as having been attempted the next time you try to upgrade that item? Or are those attempts lost forever and the next time you try to upgrade that item you are back where you started. Now that is information I would pay a few rubies for.
    It's been a while.....



  • xelanxelan Posts: 76
    edited 05.10.2013
    Baldrick wrote: »
    The Technicus and the chance of finding better items are two of the most obvious.

    What is the problem with chance of finding better item? I don't know GGS formulas but I see it this way:
    For example you have chance of finding a legendary item 1% so it's (1 of 100).
    You equip an item boosting your chance of finding better item by 10%
    Now your new chance of finding legendary: 1%*110%=0.01*1.1=0.011=1.1% (almost the same 1 of 100)

    I believe it's working like this but would be interesting if you have different formulas.
    My point of view to waves mechanics: here

    weapon.1382280845.png

    xelan @ usa1
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