OUTPOSTS ISSUE

domitsu (GB1)

tequila101 (INT1) said:

domitsu (GB1) said:

tequila101 (INT1) said:

and granted a low level acct was used, the alliance has more than enough time to level it up to a point that it would make more damage and clean supports. clearly, this was not taken into consideration. or simply, the player and the alliance didn't have much resources to break a capture. so, why blame the game mechanics?

You misunderstand here. You don't want to level it up. The capture is from the low level account. When trying to clean supports, your troops to send are limited to the level of the player who put the flag in. If it's a level 12, even your LL 800 players can only send very small armies against it, yet the level 12 can make use of fully developed wall capacities.

2 hours might well sound like a lot, but a lot of alliances don't have 24/7 coverage with serious defence numbers. 20k defenders is absolutely nothing against a serious cleaning attack. The player can't open gates if he goes to bed and the horns don't show up for another 4-5 hours. By the time he wakes up in the morning, there's already a flag there with 200k or more defenders in.

if alliance don't have players to fill in the dead zones, then there is a failure of leadership already. when you lead a pack, you would have considered making sure that dead zones are accounted particularly during war games. unless the leader of the pack thinks he is playing on farmville.

I've seen 100 million might alliances lose outposts to people just making a bunch of proxy accounts, buying a shed ton of rubies, buying 200,000 attackers, rinsing defenders, charging back, getting the account banned (but they don't care, easy enough to do it again). The horn time isn't 2 hours, it's more like 5 minutes, because they'll just move the main next door to the outpost before buying all the troops.

If the OP capture game was played fairly, that's one thing. But it isn't, and hasn't been for a long time.

Daisho

Not sure if this has been mentioned already or not, but a solution to stopping outpost captures from low level proxy accounts is by building level 5 strongholds. However, this is an expensive solution but if you really want to save your outposts from low levels capturing them having 500 defenders in a stronghold (can get away with having lvl 4 strongholds - 300 troops) will deter any low level from landing a flag. It is an expensive investment.. but an investment that might save you from losing your outposts. 

Another issue arises if they use a level 70 account to capture your outposts. In this situation however the capture flag is a little bit longer and can therefore be easier supported and stopped, and at this point if you are worried you are going to lose your outposts you can always bird until the threat has gone. 

Pisky (GB1)

I think you,ll find just about every option has been tried on GB1 with little success. You have to look at one of the main reasons for doing it in the first p!ace, and its not because its wanted, its primary aim is to do damage to accounts, an alliances overall. This is why its done by multiaccounts, and shells. I would suggest that you read through some previous threads from GB to see the history, and just how nasty this issue can get, and i'm a bit surprised you woulnd't know that. it wasnt that long ago we had ops stolen which was followed by a whole spate of different issues if i recall, including blackmail, intimidation, harrassment, where support was inundated with complaints over players and an alliance. 

You make it sound so simple to stop, i'm surprised higher lvl players havn,t jumped on this, unless they have already decided its not worth it. We have seen the highest level players lose ops, so your comments dont seem correct.

My point is still that the Stillfront/GGE should now give protection to Ops, that is based on the players revenue spent, the resources, and the time, which is now conciderable with relic/ mead upgrades. Ops now are a main asset of an account and should not be stolen

Poseidon

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

The same can be applied here, you can't entirely prevent your ops from being stolen, but you can make it very hard, so hard that people will likely steal someone else's outposts instead of yours.
I will name a few things:
- Having your outposts outside of the map
- Having a level 5 stronghold
- Going under the bird when you have to
- Opening your gates when you have to
- Holding more defenders than you might want to
- Using defense hol

Now will they call you a coward? Maybe, but who cares, don't give them the satisfaction by responding to them.
Do these things for long enough and in the future people won't even try their luck with you anymore

Pisky (GB1)

You need to read my answer to diasho. 

Also that the Op stealing is what keeps the multiaccounts and shells alive and making more. Its gone into a malicious, situation especially on some servers, if they wanr to take your Ops, they will take them, and then it becomes tit for tat which is only good short term for stillfront.

Desite being offered support, and Ops, ther is no wat i would take up those kind offers, when i am dealing with the types of multi s i am. I would also suggest that others think about future upgrades to ops untill its sorted. Why wSte your money to benefit someone else. 

Would you build a house and hand the keys to someone else. We all know its wrong, you just wont acknowledge it, as you never see it happening to you. My discussions  with yourselves just seems to be going around in circles as usual, so wheres the support from the players Mods, or don,t you think ops as assets should be protected

domitsu (GB1)

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

tequila101 (INT1)

Pisky (GB1) said:

Sorry but to me you don't seem to really know what your talking about, and keep blaming an alliance as it being their problem.

What you have to remember is, that there is always a bigger fish in the pond that you. No matter what you think you can defend against there willalways be someone that can defeat you. If you don't realise that then you have some massive defeats coming, your way

I can see some high level players from some top alliances reading your replies and and trying to work out if you are trying to insult them, or just don't know the game. I think a lot of it is the second, as you seem to have never experienced many if any concentrated attacks directed at you. I can asure you that it would change your mind, once it happens. Once you see trains of 11 wave attackers heading your way, designed to clear your defences and troops, and any that your alliance can send I know you will realise the sillyness of your answers. They will also work out when you are offline, and during that time you will get the same treatment, eventually even your alliance won't be able to support you, and you find yourself alone, or go online to find it all done and dusted.

If you still think it won't, can't happen to you, then I think that maybe will show you the flaw in your reasoning, and also that you shouldn't be casting assumptions against players you have stolen OP's from.

there's the option of opening gates. honor and pride don't matter and will not reduce it if you open gate.
what you say about there will always be a bigger fish in the pond than you is totally true. this is the intent of the game anyway. be the best of all. 

Poseidon

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

I have also been targeted for many months but managed to hold on to mine. Unfortunately if someone really has their eyes set on you there's very little you can do about it, at the end of the day it's a mechanic in the game.

tequila101 (INT1)

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

The same can be applied here, you can't entirely prevent your ops from being stolen, but you can make it very hard, so hard that people will likely steal someone else's outposts instead of yours.
I will name a few things:
- Having your outposts outside of the map
- Having a level 5 stronghold
- Going under the bird when you have to
- Opening your gates when you have to
- Holding more defenders than you might want to
- Using defense hol

Now will they call you a coward? Maybe, but who cares, don't give them the satisfaction by responding to them.
Do these things for long enough and in the future people won't even try their luck with you anymore

there you go! it's your asset. defend it. you have your own defenders, use it. if you send your own defenders and drain your OP just to support others, then the fault is on you. that is just plain carelessness. 

tequila101 (INT1)

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

it's called winning war by submission. 
that's why OP captures are selected strategically. the selection would be based on how much impact it will bring to the alliance. 
this is no different from what bigger player does on their own OP. they would transfer their OP temporarily to a dead player and take another OP closer to an enemy castle. 
so if they can do that, taking an OP and dropping would be just fitting consequence for the alliance. 

tequila101 (INT1)

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

The same can be applied here, you can't entirely prevent your ops from being stolen, but you can make it very hard, so hard that people will likely steal someone else's outposts instead of yours.
I will name a few things:
- Having your outposts outside of the map
- Having a level 5 stronghold
- Going under the bird when you have to
- Opening your gates when you have to
- Holding more defenders than you might want to
- Using defense hol

Now will they call you a coward? Maybe, but who cares, don't give them the satisfaction by responding to them.
Do these things for long enough and in the future people won't even try their luck with you anymore

or simply leave the alliance and don't play war games. go with alliances that are focused on events. 
there are many ways to skin a jellyfish!

tequila101 (INT1)

Poseidon X Angel said:

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

I have also been targeted for many months but managed to hold on to mine. Unfortunately if someone really has their eyes set on you there's very little you can do about it, at the end of the day it's a mechanic in the game.

and if you know how to play the game, there is no way you can lose your OP.

Poseidon

tequila101 (INT1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

I have also been targeted for many months but managed to hold on to mine. Unfortunately if someone really has their eyes set on you there's very little you can do about it, at the end of the day it's a mechanic in the game.

and if you know how to play the game, there is no way you can lose your OP.

I would argue against that in most cases. There are ways to not lose them but these require quite a big wallet.

Pisky (GB1)

@tequila101 (INT1)

Although i don't condone it i really hope somone on int1 shows you how to lose an op!

Poseidon

Losing an outpost isn't that big of a deal imo. Unfortunately there are a lot of dead accounts with decent outposts you can take and you keep all your mead items anyways.

tequila101 (INT1)

Pisky (GB1) said:

@tequila101 (INT1)

Although i don't condone it i really hope somone on int1 shows you how to lose an op!

if you look at the beginning of this discussion, i showed you how i lost my OP and to whom i lost it. it's a player level 70/800. he dropped his 2 developed OP just to capture my OP. he used a dead account to hold his OP and put it to bird so it is safe. 

so you don't need to pray for it. i already know how to lose an OP. 

tequila101 (INT1)

Poseidon X Angel said:

Losing an outpost isn't that big of a deal imo. Unfortunately there are a lot of dead accounts with decent outposts you can take and you keep all your mead items anyways.

yes, true. with so much events to get resources. it would be easy.

domitsu (GB1)

tequila101 (INT1) said:

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

......they would transfer their OP temporarily to a dead player and take another OP closer to an enemy castle. ....

You realise this is condoning multi-accounting right? :P

tequila101 (INT1)

domitsu (GB1) said:

tequila101 (INT1) said:

domitsu (GB1) said:

Poseidon X Angel said:

So lets say you don't want to get your house broken in to, seems fair, but you can't prevent it 100%, so what do you do?
You make it just a little harder to rob you than your neighbors.

In my experience, all of the serious outpost steals I've seen haven't been "oh that guy's easier than the guy over there", they've been very specifically targeted steals from very specifically chosen players. And they've often involved days of repeated attempts to get through over a few days and a relatively large amount of money spent to achieve it. Not to keep the outpost obviously, the second the flag finishes it's being surrendered because they don't want it, they just want to hurt the player in question by making sure he never sees it again.

Maybe this some people's idea of a fun mechanic in a war game, but I don't think the game is better place for it.

......they would transfer their OP temporarily to a dead player and take another OP closer to an enemy castle. ....

You realise this is condoning multi-accounting right? :P

am simply stating facts. 
so those who cry foul over outposts being taken are actually not coming out clean. 
they simply uses the forum to spread lies and attack other players just to make themselves look "clean".

tequila101 (INT1)

so just recording outpost issue here. so no one cries about what other alliances do on the map. i chanced upon this capture.