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Beyond the Horizon - Game changes needed!

While I am all for a full on war - sometimes things are simply not right 
Take for example a lvl 70 player being able with impunity being able to loot a lvl 12 player - not really a fair fight and then the entire alliance can loot your days of hard work in an hour 

I am speaking about the brave dutch warriors from Legion XIII_NL1 as an example all lvl 70 and in a hour took over 250 000 influence points .. 

Firstly lvl 70 platyers should not be able to loot any player under lvl 30
Secondly if thats not okay then at least one attack from a lvl 70 player per alliance on any player with less than lvl 30 

That seems fair 

Your thoughts 
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Comments

  • BIGTtheMULLER (INT1)BIGTtheMULLER (INT1) INT1 Posts: 2,228
    they call it a feeding frenzy . the top player brakes you once you are cleared the rest feed on you, 

    that being said GGE intend to earn money from this , which is not a bad thing , but to restrict players then they wont bovver to buy .

    Harsh but true

    it one reason they have an individual prizes
    BIGTtheMULLER @ WWW 1
  • Antlion (INT1)Antlion (INT1) INT1 Posts: 8
    GGE - needs to look after ALL players otherwise if we all leave they wont make a dime... 
    Commercial goals aside- I get it GGE is out to make money BUT they need to make it fair for all players. 
    I honestly feel it is a fundamental flaw in Beyond the Horizon  
    Otherwise what is the point of doing these events if all you do is waste time.... 

     
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    OR and BtH are designed this way.  If you don't like it, don't play it.  

    I know, I know......you NEED the crafting materials to make the Premium Relic gear.  That is true.  BUT, do you really NEED the Premium Relic gear?  That you WANT it, I understand.  But, do you NEED it?  No, you don't.

    Does it make things easier?  YES.   Does it allow you to produce more food?  YES.  Can you store more food?  YES.  Can you get more troops on the front and flanks and increased melee/range/strength in CY from them?  YES.  Upgrades to the Mead/Honey production?  YES.  Are there many benefits to crafting these?  YES

    But, to play the game, you do not NEED it.

    If you enemies are willing to PAY to upgrade their accounts in BtH to level 70 and you are not........ they get the advantage.  Simple as that.....
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • Antlion (INT1)Antlion (INT1) INT1 Posts: 8
    Wasso - not as simple as that

    They can have an advantage .. no problem - obviously they will be stronger and enjoy all the benefits  but all I  (and all who believe in fair play ask)   -  is restrict that they cannot take on players of a certain level at all and restrict the number of attacks on a single player by an alliance... within a time period. 
    So you are saying those of us believe in fair play should not do the events then- thats basically  your point

    I fundamentally believe that your wallet should not be an excuse to beat up significantly weaker people!!! Players with absolutely no chance what so ever... Perhaps you can share some tips as to how a player with lvl 11 stands a chance against a level 70 player . 

    And its also about applying  the same rules across the spectrum - in the main game lvl 70 players with LL 800 plus are restricted who they can attack - apply the same type of  rules... thats all . 
    in the main game you have levels - 1-19 , 20 - etc... why not the same

    I have never liked bullies - and yes I believe in fair play 









  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    Wasso - not as simple as that

    They can have an advantage .. no problem - obviously they will be stronger and enjoy all the benefits  but all I  (and all who believe in fair play ask)   -  is restrict that they cannot take on players of a certain level at all and restrict the number of attacks on a single player by an alliance... within a time period. 
    So you are saying those of us believe in fair play should not do the events then- thats basically  your point

    I fundamentally believe that your wallet should not be an excuse to beat up significantly weaker people!!! Players with absolutely no chance what so ever... Perhaps you can share some tips as to how a player with lvl 11 stands a chance against a level 70 player . 

    And its also about applying  the same rules across the spectrum - in the main game lvl 70 players with LL 800 plus are restricted who they can attack - apply the same type of  rules... thats all . 
    in the main game you have levels - 1-19 , 20 - etc... why not the same

    I have never liked bullies - and yes I believe in fair play 

    BtH is an Alliance competition on a server outside the main game.  Main game rules do not apply and certainly "Server Rules" do not apply.  ALL Servers are in there, after all.  What Player created "Server Rule" would take precedence?   None.  

    No one is getting "beat up".   Everyone starts from the same place and has the same amount of time to play.  As always, those who pay to upgrade, get the advantage.  You ask how a level 11 can stand against a level 70?  The answer is simple:  They cannot, unless they upgrade.  But again, this isn't about the ONE level 70 against the ONE level 11.  This is an Alliance competition.  If they have 20 Level 70's against your 20 level 11's, you should expect to get beat.  Don't expect a level playing field when you are a powderpuff team playing against the NFL.

    As for a tip on how to get rewards, I have posted them a number of times.  Search the forum.  In a nut shell, I am a one player Alliance.  I have never bought a single ruby, nor paid GGS any money in any way.  I have received rewards from BtH multiple times.  All it takes is an understanding of how the points tally, when they actually matter, properly setting up your Capital, and the ability to be online at the right time.

    I have never liked the misuse of the term "bully".  Fair play means everyone has the same opportunity, not the same outcome.  Like it or not, everyone DOES have the same opportunity.........
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • Antlion (INT1)Antlion (INT1) INT1 Posts: 8
    edited 27.09.2020
    Fair play means everyone has the same opportunity, not the same outcome.  Like it or not, everyone DOES have the same opportunity.........

    Love that quote - your argument is absolutely flawed as a low level player cannot even spy the player - not really the same opportunity nor the same outcome - so how on earth does that amount to same opportunity?
  • MartenE3 (NL1)MartenE3 (NL1) NL1 Posts: 131
    Money is supposed to give an advantage. This way if you don't spend you do still stand a chance but you need to work harder than those who do spend.
    In beyond the horizon you can not compete if you do not spend, not as an alliance let alone a single player going for a solo reward. This is the problem.
  • Antlion (INT1)Antlion (INT1) INT1 Posts: 8
    Fully agree with you - Money should give you an advantage - no problem
    NOT a licence to be unfair and operate with impunity 
    The size of your wallet should never ever determine what is fair

    Some of the changes I would like to see in Beyond The Horizon are 

    1. All players can spy each other - no more protection for ruby players - you've bought your advantage - BIG castle, plenty of troops etc....  

    2. Players of lvl 70 can only loot 1 % of influence points of any player ranked lvl 20 and lower - surely ruby whales already have such a significant advantage.. how much more of an advantage do they want? If they are such great players why do they need to buy an advantage or are they just so piss poor players or scared of being attacked and looted so they have to buy their protection- just a thought.
  • JYT (US1)JYT (US1) US1 Posts: 895
    I'm not sure you read what was written, @MartenE3 (NL1). Wasso literally just said he still gets alliance rewards playing by himself without spending any money. I've done it a few times, not alone, but only with one or two actively playing buddies. Just have to know how to play it.
    OK, yeah, single player rewards are completely inaccessible without spending money. But that's due to the sheer number of people who are willing to spend to push for those rewards, and their insanely huge value, and limited quantity. Remember, supply and demand...very low supply & high demand leads to very high prices.

    @Antlion (INT1)I'm not too familiar with the options for starting your castle in BtH, but I think there's an option to pay a bunch of rubies for a lvl 70 castle. You too have the opportunity to purchase said castle, but did not, and due to the game's rules, you are now unable to spy that castle without first leveling up. I see no issue here, as the opportunity is there, whether or not you take that opportunity only depends on your decision.
    "But i don't have that kind of rubies lying around for a castle that lasts one week!" That's on you, then. Plenty of ways to rack up rubies without spending any money. I've done 100k in two months pretty easily, plenty of others do more.
    Especially with recent updates, making upwards of a thousand rubies a day is not too hard. Maybe you can't hit forts because more active neighbors have a lock on them. Ok, but there's no limit to the number of towers you can hit, or to the number of wheel of fortune tickets you can buy, only how as far as you are willing to push.

    One final reminder: BtH rewards are considered end game materials by the devs. So they should be difficult to acquire in substantial amounts.
    Discord: JYT#1574
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    Fair play means everyone has the same opportunity, not the same outcome.  Like it or not, everyone DOES have the same opportunity.........

    Love that quote - your argument is absolutely flawed as a low level player cannot even spy the player - not really the same opportunity nor the same outcome - so how on earth does that amount to same opportunity?

    You have the SAME OPPORTUNITY to buy your way to the same level.  

    One additional point about the difference between BtH and Main Game "Fairness":  On the Main Game, you have players who have played for YEARS.  Some since the beginning 8 years ago.  Then you have players who joined last week.  THIS is why the Main Game has the brackets that it does.  Those who are new, get some measure of protection.  But, to reiterate, in BtH everyone can start at the same time and everyone can play the same amount of time.  Everyone can purchase the same offers.  THAT IS FAIR.  
    JYT (US1) said:
    I'm not sure you read what was written, @MartenE3 (NL1). Wasso literally just said he still gets alliance rewards playing by himself without spending any money. I've done it a few times, not alone, but only with one or two actively playing buddies. Just have to know how to play it.
    Thank you @JYT (US1) it is nice to know someone is actually reading what I am writing.  I wonder sometimes......


    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • eibbed62 (AU1)eibbed62 (AU1) AU1 Posts: 378
    I agree that everyone has the same opportunities in BTH, and that your decisions influence how well you will do there. Other's decisions also influence how well you will do.

    I do not enjoy logging on to BTH to find that all my hard work from the previous day has been stolen while I slept or worked. (both vital pursuits for me).

    Even less do I enjoy finding that part way through an event that's "equal opportunity for all" my access to the event currency (city states) has been taken away, never to return, while other parts of the map still have that access. If you have to remove some of the city states as time goes on, make it a random disappearance, or start from the middle and work outwards like you do when new players join the event. As it stands, if you happen to be lucky enough to be placed on the Western side of the map when you join, you will likely have city states right up to the last day. Whereas if you get placed on the Eastern side you will be restricted from about the second or third day. And yes I know you can move your castle, but then you will have to leave your capital on its own with noone to help defend it. 

    I find that whilst I am tuned in to BTH or OR, my real game suffers from neglect. I can barely keep up with the constant string of Foreigners, BloodCrows, Nomads, Samurais, Beri, Beri Invasion. I rarely bother with ShapeShifters, Essences (or tea leaves, or honey pots or whatever the next one is). I don't even think about Storm Islands or Blade Coast any more. I can't even remember the last time I saw the Thorn king or the one that uses cave dwellers.

     I enjoy BTH and OR so little, that I have decided not to bother with them any more. I am not overly concerned with getting more premium relic construction materials. I am content to plod along collecting a few tokens here and there to upgrade the few relic buildings I have managed to build.

    I have decided that these events, and their rewards, are not worth the angst and the time away from my real game. So my decision is I choose not to do them.

    Good luck to you all
    Regards,
    Debbie


    eibbed62 @ au 1
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    @eibbed62 (AU1)  Your frustration is valid.  Unless you are willing to buy your way up to high levels, what you described will happen repeatedly.  The only way to keep daily Influence Gains is to spend, spend and spend some more.

    I will put up how to get rewards without spending and with less frustration,  But, it does require a couple important things:  Being able to be online daily to work on the Capital, being online for the final 4 hours or so and not caring that you WILL lose 90%+ of your influence daily.

    Join the 2nd day.

    Cap one City-State per day.  (Yes, sometime you have to take a chance on one that is 6 hours away only to FAIL - but, try again)

    The goal for each day EXCEPT the last, is to get coins.  Strip the coins from the city-state as soon as you can.  

    Focus on building your Capital.  Buy the tokens (with coins) to build a greenhouse.  You want as much food as possible.  Upgrade walls and towers as possible.

    On the final day, buy the coin Cast and as many Def troops as you can.  IF you have gained some Rubies over the preparation days, use them to by Def Tools.

    Sometimes you can get enough to protect both the Capital and the Castle.  IF not, do not defend the Castle.  Hit other Capitals to get the influence, but let the hits land and take the percentage.

    For the Capital, be smart on what hits you defend against.  75% or more of the hits are 32 speed troops with no tools.  Defend and easily beat them.  When a 500+ fully tooled hit is coming......evacuate your troops and drop your tools.  Dont waste them. You will have to pay attention for those final 3 - 4 hours and make adjustments as needed.  I have had multiples incoming that you either switch setups between or pick your best setup that works for them all.  I have had to evacuate for 30 seconds to let a big hit in and then back to defend against the small.

    In the end, you may only have 50k influence on the Capital.  But, you may have another 25k in the castle.  Sounds like a very small amount.  But, 90% of the time, that is all you need to get the lowest tier rewards. 

    That is the other important point:  DO NOT TRY TO WIN this event.  Do not even try to get high placement.  UNLESS you are willing to spend, Spend, SPEND.  IF you are willing to take what you can get, the above works well.

    Oh, and it is FAIR...........
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,324
    Wasso - not as simple as that

    They can have an advantage .. no problem - obviously they will be stronger and enjoy all the benefits  but all I  (and all who believe in fair play ask)   -  is restrict that they cannot take on players of a certain level at all and restrict the number of attacks on a single player by an alliance... within a time period. 
    So you are saying those of us believe in fair play should not do the events then- thats basically  your point

    I fundamentally believe that your wallet should not be an excuse to beat up significantly weaker people!!! Players with absolutely no chance what so ever... Perhaps you can share some tips as to how a player with lvl 11 stands a chance against a level 70 player . 








    To comment on your first point, restricting lvl 70 players from hitting lower levels would cause more harm than it would cure in the beyond the horizon event.
    I will give you an example, the reason we all go to lvl 70 is so that we have the strongest defenses possible.

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.


    Beyond the horizon is easily the toughest event to win, there are a lot of people spending money there.
    You might not like it but someone who spends a significant amount of money is entitled to the advantage they have.
  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,324
    Server rules were implemented by servers to keep the game fun for those who do not like to be attacked whilst keeping it some what fun for those like to attack.
    The Beyond the Horizon event is based around attacking each other, adding server rules to this wouldn't make any sense if you ask me.

    For example, lets say my alliance has 400 million points, we would never be able to lose this number if everyone was limited to only 10 attacks.

  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.

    Having never bought and never looked into what is available, I was not aware of that dynamic!  That would be a massive game changer and helps explain why it is the way it is: to keep it fair.......
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • Wiglema (NL1)Wiglema (NL1) NL1 Posts: 722
    Poseidon X Angel said:

    [...] restricting lvl 70 players from hitting lower levels would cause more harm than it would cure in the beyond the horizon event.
    I will give you an example, the reason we all go to lvl 70 is so that we have the strongest defenses possible.

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.

    This is a good point, but what I don't get is why a level 15 player is not allowed to attack (or even spy) a level 70 player. Could you please explain that also?
    Wiglema (NL1)
  • flug (NL1)flug (NL1) NL1 Posts: 1,436
    edited 30.09.2020
    Poseidon X Angel said:

    [...] restricting lvl 70 players from hitting lower levels would cause more harm than it would cure in the beyond the horizon event.
    I will give you an example, the reason we all go to lvl 70 is so that we have the strongest defenses possible.

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.

    This is a good point, but what I don't get is why a level 15 player is not allowed to attack (or even spy) a level 70 player. Could you please explain that also?
    otherwise the lvl 70 can be attacked bij several low lvls. that would be an advantage for the low lvl.s.   
    BtH is a P2W event
    flug @ nl 1
  • Poseidon X AngelPoseidon X Angel Moderator Posts: 1,324
    Poseidon X Angel said:

    [...] restricting lvl 70 players from hitting lower levels would cause more harm than it would cure in the beyond the horizon event.
    I will give you an example, the reason we all go to lvl 70 is so that we have the strongest defenses possible.

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.

    This is a good point, but what I don't get is why a level 15 player is not allowed to attack (or even spy) a level 70 player. Could you please explain that also?
    They are able to attack a level 70 player.
    All capitals are lvl 70 and I have never had a problem hitting one.
    I am not sure why this player got an error.
  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 3,332
    Poseidon X Angel said:

    [...] restricting lvl 70 players from hitting lower levels would cause more harm than it would cure in the beyond the horizon event.
    I will give you an example, the reason we all go to lvl 70 is so that we have the strongest defenses possible.

    An alternative is using 400.000 rubies to buy a maxed out castle and remain at lvl 15. If level 70 players wouldn't be able to hit this player it would give him or her an insane advantage because he/she has the defenses of a level 70 player while he/she can only be hit by other level 15 players.

    This is a good point, but what I don't get is why a level 15 player is not allowed to attack (or even spy) a level 70 player. Could you please explain that also?
    They are able to attack a level 70 player.
    All capitals are lvl 70 and I have never had a problem hitting one.
    I am not sure why this player got an error.
    @Wiglema (NL1) is correct.  While anyone can attack a Level 70 Capital, the lower levels cannot Spy the CASTLES of a Level 70 player.  They of course can send an attack blind, but these typically bounce with the Attackers Fled message to the Defending Player and a No Battle to the Attacker.  This is a legit complaint by the lower level players.  

    Although the only reason I can think of for a lower level to send an attack on the Castle of a Level 70 Player is to tool burn.  But, I don't really have a problem with that either...............

    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.




  • geniusguy (US1)geniusguy (US1) US1 Posts: 946
    edited 02.10.2020
    I understand OR and BTH are meant to be late game content. But here is the thing, late game content should not be essentially locked behind a paywall. If you do not pay up the paywall then those who have will steamroll you. That's the core issue. This end game content is not designed for the end game players. It is designed for the end game players that have a lot of cash to spare. Which will inevitably lead to normal end game players being out of luck. There are currently many players who are considered untouchable by those who are not also whales. 6,500+ troop attacks with 170 M 170 R and 200 CY cannot be defended against by normal players. 
    geniusguy @ wok of usa 1
    AuPt5sH.png

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