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Relicus and Daimyo

I have to say, I love the Relicus. Or at least, I love the idea of it.

In practice, it is WAY too costly to be practical. At a base cost of 100,000 coins (yes, 100 THOUSAND), you get a 0.1% increase to all 3 stats of that relic equipment piece. This is completely impractical, especially for low-level 70s who have relics but not the coins to upgrade this.

One of two things should happen. The price needs to decrease, or the amount the stats improves by needs to be higher (perhaps similar to the increase given by the actual technicus).

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As for the Daimyo...

Where to start with this? Perhaps start with the fact that the level 4 camps are completely broken. The castellan stats are stupidly strong on the level 4 castles, and the commanders are just as bad.

I'm not a small player by any means, but the stats you need on your own equipment has to be stupidly strong to stand a chance.

Using a decently powerful relic commander (140% ranged combat strength, 130% CY strength) I'm still losing 1000 troops or so when using Veteran Demons. I could be doing it wrong (if so please give me tips on how to approach these attacks!), and the taunts are just as difficult (same as before. Even strong relic casts struggle to defend with a positive KDR from what I've seen. It looks like you need huge ).

Again, I'm open to advice on how to approach these taunts and attacks.

It does not help that we can't use the event tools (for whatever reason), and we're only limited to 4 waves. Perhaps this could be looked into?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Feel free to discuss these points in the comments!
~~ Kyriakos

War Marshall at Odin's Fury


Comments

  • Venom (ASIA1)Venom (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,232
    I think the price needs a little drop. Not too much though, as the current idea that I am seeing, is a increase in skill gap/effort gap. For example, a non-ruby player that spends a reasonable amount of time and effort doing RBC's is now rewarded with the ability to expand their arsenal, and make a stronger one, than a whale that spends little to no effort doing RBC's. 

    The increase of stats is a no-no. If you haven't already drawn a roadmap in your head of making the ideal perfect commander. It basically sits at, you need to upgrade things about 50 times in most areas lol. So making it 0.2% increase, would make almost all equipment able to be an ideal piece if you spend enough coins/rubies. Making it quite pointless. 

    But please remember, these are for years to come, not a weekend project like unique (which I hope we can agree was a mess).

    For Daimyo, I do hope for some reduction in the strength of the level 3 and 4 castles. I think they have reduced the strength of attacks on you. As I did taunt one earlier, and it had 2k troops incoming, I could be wrong however. 

    But I *think* the game is starting to roll into a more mathematic format, and is focused on letting players who work hard, get far. So maybe level 3 and 4 will be more worthwhile and normal in the coming months when everyone has stronger equipment. (I also don't think it's meant to be easy, I think it's meant to be something you don't attack often, if that makes sense, just random thoughts in my head).
    Venom @ Asia - Member for Drunken Fist
    Venom @ Australia - War Marshal for Shadow Lords!!

    Best player on the test server B)

  • Blitzkrieg (GB1)Blitzkrieg (GB1) GB1 Posts: 203
    Level 4 is just not possible without ruby troops. I run a 120% Melee, 160% Ranged, 130% Courtyard and can't beat level 4 camps with coin troops.

    The reward for actually beating them too doesn't seem great considering the cost.

    Same with level 4 defence too - 150% melee, 130% range 88% CY +13% township strength cast gets wiped clean out without vet defenders.
                

  • Philt123 (GB1)Philt123 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,840
    To be fair credit where its due.

    1) the price has been lowered for level 20 Base food items, still expensive but thats ok they should be they the best item you can get at the moment.
    2) its now possible for Non ruby players to get level 15 wall items in this event, Much needed change, again not easy but very possible if worked for, great change to help bridge the gap between ruby and non ruby players.
    3) I really like the idea of relic equipment in that it appears to be much more like the legendary equipment in that it is a very long term thing to hone all your equipment, spending a very long time waiting for the right piece to fit your cast or comm, then when you get it takes a long time to upgrade it.  Its relativly easy to achieve very strong casts / comms but will take a very very long time to perfect them.  Again it helps bridge the gap between ruby and non ruby players.  But will require activity.
    4) you have given a new way to get relic upgrades / construction tokens in main game which is very much appreciated.


    The cons
    1) the upgrading of equipment, I will leave the upgrading of 0.1% per item for a little longer at first glance it seems a little too low but given there are 50 levels it might be ok.  However this a first glance appears to be a non ruby upgrade like the technicus, but with massivly increasing failiure rates by the time you get to level 20 you will probably be in the tens of thousands of shards needed per upgrade, by the time you get to 30 probably hundreds of thousands of shards needed per upgrade, and 40+ is probably millions of shards required.  So realistically after about level 20 you going to be looking at a ruby only upgrade which is going to be just like the gem upgrades, anythign after about level 5 - 6 became ruby only.  This really isnt a great idea.  I have no problem with ruby shortening the process but If anyone is smart enough on maths to work out how many shards needed to go form 0-10 10-20 20-30 etc to prove of disprove this point would be appreciated.  But higher levels certainly appear impossible without ruby, and making it ruby only is a very bad idea.

    2) Extra storage, yes brilliant thanks for listening, extra storage is very much required and whats more needed for players to fully experience this new long term feature, however its a massivly expensive upgrade, for a very small return, +100 gems and +100 equipment ?  on something thats probably going to take most players many many months if not years to complete.  Maybe if it was a percentage increase it might not be too bad ie the change to very long term increase storage by 100% not 100 items!

    3) the millatary acadamy, again a pretty expensive building to upgrade, so a longer term project for the vast majority of players, what i find most dissapointing about the thing is that there are so many troop types most of which i never use and have never used for a very very long time, years in fact.  So why on earth should I be getting offered increased to troops i have never used and will never use ?  once the building level increases past a certain level i think either the lower troop types should be removed from upgrade, or we should at least have the option to de select them from the option to train them.  This is a massive downside to this building and ultimatly will probably stop people building it, that and the fact it has no PO value, it really could do with PO adding to it!

    Overall a few very big steps in the right direction in terms of game balance for equipment here, giving everyone the chance to access relic equipment but only the very active will ever fully upgrade it.  Just make sure its not effectivly ruby only.  On the upgrade front.

    I just wish you would not ignore the elephant in the room and the things that are going to destroy your game, all this is just window dressing if the core is rotten!!!  Just tear the plaster off and cut the rot out.  and just in case you pretending not to know what i mean i mean in particular

    1) Unfair pricing, Vastly differing prices that can be abused by people prepared to use simple software or to exploit multiple accounts, Set one price!!!!!  and allow only once currency per server so US server you pay USD price, UK server u pay GBP etc.  Until you do you may as well give up on any notion of game balancing etc the prices are simply too different you talked in the past about devaluing the ruby as a justification of removing the wishing well, but the reality is sellign your product at 300% discount to certain people is really whats devaluing your "currency"  ie the ruby.  If you take Volkswagen as an example their car prices are within about + - 20% of each other in whatever country in the world they sell them in, and most of that is simply currency fluctuations, why?  simply becasue they know if they discount certain markets to increase sales they will devalue their brand and their procuct, ie their "currency" so they dont do it!  YOU are responsible for the de valuing of the ruby.   

    2) Price incentives favouring Multis, you pretty much addressed this issue a while back but i am guessing the massivly falling number of players has paniced you into making the decision to bring back 300% personal offers for players that dont buy frequently, or log in frequently, all this does is benefit the multi!!!  Who will simply rotate which account they play to make sure they always have a 300% bonus!!!   You know this which is why you stopped it previously!!!!  Discounting to new customers has been massive in the UK over the last 10 years, but the world has come full circle, in the UK at least companies are ditching this approach, as customers are so annoyed that their loyalty is being abused.  The amount of adverts on the TV today with the theme existing loyal customers will always get the best pricing possible, why?  because customers are sick of  having their loyalty count against them. And they are walking away from companies that treat them like this.  You really need to make sure that your Loyal and most frequent customers ALWAYS get the most preferentaial pricing.  You are in a massivly declinign market the most important customers you have is your current customer, the sooner you realise that and look after them and treat them fairly the better, Can you imagine if you have been going to your local car dealer for years buying 10 cars a year every year for you small business, only to watch a guy walk in of the street and pay 50% of the amount you have paid, what would you think?  I know what you would do you would never spend another penny in that garage again, why would you think players of your game would think any differently ?

    3) multiple accoounting / account sharing accounts that play 24 hr a day.  This is somethign that you have massivly FAILED to properly address over the years, and yet you are still even at this late stage of the game refuse to properly address it, it goes hand in hand with the VPN issue, and you are sitting there hoping the issues caused by these players will go away, just how many players do you want to walk from the game before you do somethign about it ?  is 39% year on year decline in active players not enough for you ?   I realise its not a simple solution, but do you think that all companies have to at some point make difficult decisions so safeguard the future of their company ?   Believe me ignoring a problem and hoping it will go away is never going to work out well.  If you had spend a fraction of the time and effort that you have put into adding glitter to the game, and adding perfume to the game to hope you can distract players from the growing stench of a rotton core,  and cut the rot out directly, then your game would be in a much much better state that it is today that I promise you.  Its still not too late if you act decisivly but its getting close. 





    Philt123 @ en 1
  • Joao Tomas (GB1)Joao Tomas (GB1) GB1 Posts: 157
    Half of what you just wrote ain't even relevant to the post. but allow me to respond and open your eyes.

    I personally can't take any complaints about fair pricing from you seriously. The numbers you drop on in-game purchases whilst complaining about fair pricing makes no sense to me. If you cared, you wouldn't drop as much as you do and force GGE into a change. Dropping the figures you do, just shows them, even though you are unhappy you are still willing to spend as much as you do. If you where GGE would you change it still receiving income... nope, no point for them.

    Secondly, let's talk about the Relics. Relics are a brilliant idea, execution awful. I can build a relic cast, as a good as the SS Castelan from the SS camp for free. Now you can upgrade relics. Technically, with a bit of luck and grind, you can build a castellan stronger than any other castellan on this game, including ruby castellans..... It's wrong. GGS say in the game tags. 'Fight Epic PvP battles' but anyone put a relic com together better than the Master Summoner Com? nope, because you can't but you can make castellans that are stronger than the new SS Castellan. Game balance has been lost with relics. 

    Military Academy, not much to say, just a building to grab more money off players. Worth 0. 

    Equipment Storage, GGS stuck out update notes saying yes, we will increase equipment storage for players. But you have to build a building needing currency from the most money grabbing event in GGE or spending real money to sell equipment efficiently. Again, just stealing peoples money, no respect at all.

    Now multi accounts. Easy resolved between players. If players are honest and sort out the issue within their own alliance then issues like this don't happen. Oh wow, a multi accounter made an alliance with 65 of his own accounts. Any real player knows he will never be able to compete at the top. Too many of those who complain about multis, don't sort the issues in front of their own eyes in their own alliance. 



    Deputy of The Musketeers
    All for one and one for all. United we stand, divided we fall.

    www.muskshq.com






  • About the Relicus I personally dont mind the costs because many relic sets are pretty strong without the upgrades already, maybe a little price tinkering can be done. My issue is when you start shelling out millions per upgrade that can still fail. Correct me if I'm wrong.

  • Wasso (INT3)Wasso (INT3) INT3 Posts: 2,711
    The coin attempts absolutely CAN fail.  We tested it in the Test Server.  As always, there is the Ruby version that is 100% 

    The functionality works, if you have the $$$ to spend...…..
    Good night.
    Sleep well.
    I'll most likely kill you in the morning.



  • I would add that with a level 4 keep it takes:
    300 days to do the academy
    371 days for the armoury
    205 days for the relicus
    To build and upgrade. This is ridiculous and in the 2->3 years of building these more important things are garunteed to appear. These will most likely be more important builds for level 70s and above. It will also cost lots of kingdom res and upgrade and construction tokens. Even a ruby buyer will be using a lot of skips. This would be slightly reduced as keep is not max in my main so construction time goes down. You can get a relic cast that takes off 110% build time but that still puts us in the years of build time.
  • As far as I see it you really only need relicus level one, and I heard from people that the military academy isn't worth getting. Armory is nice idea but only effective at higher level for po and inventory space. Saying that Ill focus on finishing my hol and finish my greenhouses in all my castles because the armory does require the speci build currency but I think the benefit it gives is heavily outweighed by other projects.

  • I completely agree with you just thought to point out that it takes a very long time to build them up IF you wanted to
  • Druids (GB1)Druids (GB1) GB1 Posts: 168
    With regards to this latest update..
    To expensive, with little reward for average players. Just adds even more clutter to your main, all of these could have been added to existing buildings, but GGE want more of your money, and time. Not worth the bother as it stands, just reduce the amount of relic equipment, or existing old equipment that a lot of relic com's and casts are now better than.

    Multi Accounts..given up on GGE dealing with this, and even worse with all the old accounts being dropped all over the maps, probably as a smoke screen to hide the dwindling player numbers, which are a lot..
  • Venom (ASIA1)Venom (ASIA1) ASIA1 Posts: 2,232
    A lot of players are forgetting, this is a long term game. Not a weekend mobile tycoon game. Months and years is what should be aimed at when making updates. Why bother making a monthly update if everyone does it in a couple of days? 

    New updates are awesome. Been loving the game since. Very upset seeing more berimond, nomad and samurai heros. But it would be very boring if I had 35 elite commanders already lol.
    Venom @ Asia - Member for Drunken Fist
    Venom @ Australia - War Marshal for Shadow Lords!!

    Best player on the test server B)

  • Contra (US1)Contra (US1) US1 Posts: 43
    I find it hard to believe there are any positive comments about the 1/1000 at a time upgrades the relicus delivers.
    The relicus is a decent po item but it's more frustrating and boring than the the technicus. It's becoming harder and harder to stay interested in this game.  
    Contra @ usa 1
    "Therefore, we devised a different solution where we can control the process of player’s progression more easily to keep the motivation of players for a longer period and enjoy their gaming experience."   GGS regarding the Nov 2017 Update

    Translation: We are restricting player progress making it slower to achieve your goals, more frustrating and boring. We expect you to enjoy.

  • bummer (AU1)bummer (AU1) AU1 Posts: 664
    A lot of players are forgetting, this is a long term game. Not a weekend mobile tycoon game. Months and years is what should be aimed at when making updates. Why bother making a monthly update if everyone does it in a couple of days? 

    New updates are awesome. Been loving the game since. Very upset seeing more berimond, nomad and samurai heros. But it would be very boring if I had 35 elite commanders already lol.
    It may be a long term game but do you really expect we have 35 years to see the effect of the relicus?
  • This reminds me of the fiasco when the uk joined the common market - the vote was rigged ( you had to vote not to join) and only 21% of the population voted, so we entered - 40 years later the mass of bureaurocracy has finally peed of a majority of voters so we voted to leave - GGS you are doing the same thing !

    the relics are a red herring and i see no benefit in spending either in game currency - or rubies on upgrading rubbish - i'm still selling all mine as yet to see a decent piece ! I won't be building another useless building in a game that is dying - i'm addicted and will be here til the end but find myself playing less and less with every update !
    dandelion1958 @ en 1

    Am still playing 6 years on ! - hi lvl 800 on new yrs eve (2017/18) !

    Leading the Targaryens - PS interested in joining - PM any officer in Game :-)

    PS in top200 on uk 1 never botted or used a VPN - that's why it took 5 yrs to get to leg 800
  • bernhardt (US1)bernhardt (US1) US1 Posts: 919
    We give feedback and it's ignored unless they figure out a way to directly sell more rubies off of the feedback.  Since they haven't figured out how do that on the daimyo - no change.  Having a boatload more people playing an event who might buy a few rubies along the way is way too long term for GGE.  One week seems to be very long term planning where GGE is concerned in the ruby selling dept.

    As for the relicus, just build the lvl 1 and be done with it.  Our feedback that it has poor ROI was ignored and will be until GGE figures out a way to make it worse while increasing ruby sales for a week.
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