Home English (UK) News from the world of Empire

We need new Moderators!


ModeratorWe are always on the lookout for talented people to join the team. That means you! If you think you could help us organise and inform the community while entertaining everyone then apply. We need people to help out on the forum, behind the scenes with announcements, on Discord and on our other Social Media channels.


If this is something you think might be of interest to you, HERE

Bot Banning: Intermediate results

124

Comments

  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    edited 30.10.2017
    The only way that has ever worked for any game that I am aware of, is if you catch someone cheating, you ban them, forever.  Take away their ill gotten gains and ban them,  ferret out their other accounts, especially the one that is getting the most benefit from their alts cheating and botting,  the one that is getting the most protection from password sharing, and ban it too.   If you find an alliance or even a groups of alliances all practicing cheating tactics , ban those that are obviously cheating,  and then finally flag all band accounts as cheaters.   Give them time to prove other wise before you flag them.  This way, weed out the bad apples, and bring attention to the alliances tactics.   Folks having dealings with them will know to watch out and report obvious signs, and alliances and players will clean up this game in a hurry,  then we can all get back to playing the game not just trying to keep ahead of the con.  But we all know that GGE will not make any serious changes until they are on the brink of having to shut down, and then only as little as they have to do become solvent and kick the can down the road again.  
    Zeps @ usa 1
  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    BTW, since I offered a complaint, I would like to offer at least a starting suggestion.   First let me explain.  I have never in my wildest dreams thought of robbing a bank.   However I am sure if a new law came out that said, if you are caught for robbing a bank, the first offence you will spend a day in jail,  the second offense you will spend 3 days in jail, third offence a week, and then if caught again you will spend the rest of your life in jail, however we will not take away from you all the money you robbed.   I am pretty sure you would see a huge upswing in robberies all over the country,  in fact, I am sure you will find that there will be many folks who become serial bank robbers,  well at least three time offenders.  Banks would suddenly be the worst place to keep your money, with folk being robbed in the lobby because the bank had been robbed so many times there was nothing left to take.    Yet this is just exactly what GGE has told to the very folks destroying their games.   You get to get caught cheating three times on any account before you get banned from the game forever.  We will not take back your ill gotten gains,  Nor your other accounts.   GGE it would be better to sell  cheat all you want subscription , kinda like the vip,  you could sell no ramification cheating for 24 hours,  renewed with rubies and offered on the wheel of fortune, great reward incentives for ruby purchases.  This way at least all your paying customers would be on a level playing field.  And you won't really have to do anything to fix the cheating problem.  You could offer best bots as awards,  maybe work up a task page that allows you to access all your multi accounts at the same time for building troops, defending and attacking.   Heck if you play your cards right, you could even Offer an alliance password account with separate privileges for various ranks.  Like Deputys can access all accounts but cannot access their rubies or kick out all the members,  (you know how messy that gets)   





    ummmm.... that doesn't really make sense, and no.

    Not at all implying in anyway that you folks at GK cheat, but if in fact you are playing legit, you should be one of the alliances that is pushing hardest for GGE to get their act together and seriously go after the cheaters 
    Zeps @ usa 1
  • BTW, since I offered a complaint, I would like to offer at least a starting suggestion.   First let me explain.  I have never in my wildest dreams thought of robbing a bank.   However I am sure if a new law came out that said, if you are caught for robbing a bank, the first offence you will spend a day in jail,  the second offense you will spend 3 days in jail, third offence a week, and then if caught again you will spend the rest of your life in jail, however we will not take away from you all the money you robbed.   I am pretty sure you would see a huge upswing in robberies all over the country,  in fact, I am sure you will find that there will be many folks who become serial bank robbers,  well at least three time offenders.  Banks would suddenly be the worst place to keep your money, with folk being robbed in the lobby because the bank had been robbed so many times there was nothing left to take.    Yet this is just exactly what GGE has told to the very folks destroying their games.   You get to get caught cheating three times on any account before you get banned from the game forever.  We will not take back your ill gotten gains,  Nor your other accounts.   GGE it would be better to sell  cheat all you want subscription , kinda like the vip,  you could sell no ramification cheating for 24 hours,  renewed with rubies and offered on the wheel of fortune, great reward incentives for ruby purchases.  This way at least all your paying customers would be on a level playing field.  And you won't really have to do anything to fix the cheating problem.  You could offer best bots as awards,  maybe work up a task page that allows you to access all your multi accounts at the same time for building troops, defending and attacking.   Heck if you play your cards right, you could even Offer an alliance password account with separate privileges for various ranks.  Like Deputys can access all accounts but cannot access their rubies or kick out all the members,  (you know how messy that gets)   





    ummmm.... that doesn't really make sense, and no.

    Not at all implying in anyway that you folks at GK cheat, but if in fact you are playing legit, you should be one of the alliances that is pushing hardest for GGE to get their act together and seriously go after the cheaters 

    your solution sucks tho. And I honestly cant tell if it was sarcasm or not so I took it seriously.

    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,104
    What is your position on multi accounts Turtle enlighten us.  It is a fairly simple issue yes you support one player one account and are compliant with the terms and conditions or no - bad idea - you support multi's in which case well I'd expect you to a.  be banned from the forum and b. be banned from the game.  Time for messing about is over break the rules don't play, there is nothing to be gained by this constant messing about now just remove them or close the game and reopen it when you can actually enforce your own rules.  Pretty sure Turtle won't hide in his or her shell and will do the right thing as there is really only one option :)
    Batten @ en 1
  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,104
    That was sarcasm ;)
    Batten @ en 1
  • What is your position on multi accounts Turtle enlighten us.  It is a fairly simple issue yes you support one player one account and are compliant with the terms and conditions or no - bad idea - you support multi's in which case well I'd expect you to a.  be banned from the forum and b. be banned from the game.  Time for messing about is over break the rules don't play, there is nothing to be gained by this constant messing about now just remove them or close the game and reopen it when you can actually enforce your own rules.  Pretty sure Turtle won't hide in his or her shell and will do the right thing as there is really only one option :)

    My position is that multi-accounts are against the ToS and multi-accounters need to be banned according to the guidelines gge has presented us with. However, Zeps rather convoluted paragraph seemed to me like he was suggesting gge allow cheating if you paid for it or something like that - which I do not agree with.

    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

  • That was sarcasm ;)

    Wait, so I wasted 5 min of life typing a response that wasn't needed because it was sarcasm? sad.... lol :D

    Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.

  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    edited 30.10.2017
    That was sarcasm ;)

    Wait, so I wasted 5 min of life typing a response that wasn't needed because it was sarcasm? sad.... lol :D
    What is your position on multi accounts Turtle enlighten us.  It is a fairly simple issue yes you support one player one account and are compliant with the terms and conditions or no - bad idea - you support multi's in which case well I'd expect you to a.  be banned from the forum and b. be banned from the game.  Time for messing about is over break the rules don't play, there is nothing to be gained by this constant messing about now just remove them or close the game and reopen it when you can actually enforce your own rules.  Pretty sure Turtle won't hide in his or her shell and will do the right thing as there is really only one option :)

    My position is that multi-accounts are against the ToS and multi-accounters need to be banned according to the guidelines gge has presented us with. However, Zeps rather convoluted paragraph seemed to me like he was suggesting gge allow cheating if you paid for it or something like that - which I do not agree with.

    sorry, yes in the second post, the second half was sarcasm, or light hearted ribbing, tongue in cheek, etc.  unfortunately we are talking GGE here, and their response to kids robbing them blind stealing candy in their candy store is to not let the ones they catch back in for several hours at a time, but letting them keep all the candy they stole,  and then selling only horrible cheap candy no body wants,  yeah the thieves are not able to get the good candy any more but neither can  anyone else, it  hurts the rest of the customer base and ultimately the store.  Soooo...   I can see why the panic with the idea, cause GGE might actually think that making money off cheating is the better and easier alternative,  probably be a meeting Monday morning to consider the cash flow ramifications to it.    Everyone knows they sure have not put any effort into stopping it.  




    Zeps @ usa 1
  • Batten, you talk a lot of sense mate, and I'm sure the silent majority agree with you.
  • Philt123 (GB1)Philt123 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,839
    I totally agree with many of the comments here, firstly as a Max it needs to be 3 strikes and you are out.  More than that is crazy.  When u factor in Multis it just gives way way too many opportunites for cheaters to cheat.   I really think GGE are underestimating quite how many good high level acccounts are in the hands of Multi's these days.  The amount of people that have left this game over the years, People i KNOW have left the game as I still speak to them, yet their accounts are still happily playing events etc.   We ALL know loads of accounts like this.
    Also why are you rolling the ban level backwards?  Are you saying its ok to cheat once every 6 months?  

    And most importantly why are you not taking away the things the cheaters are getting away from them ?  Clearly there are people still out there cheating this means they think the reward is better than the risk.  This balance needs changing, IF you stripped the account that have been caught cheating of all the rewards it gained in the period it cheated, ie stripped all its coin, removed any equipmetn / gems / decos / rubies gained etc.  In the month the account was found to be cheating.  AND you banned the account, and there was a very real chance of a perminant banning.  I am sure you would soon find the game cleaned up.

    Also you have to remember that a cheating account can also help the alliance it is in. to win considerable rewards. If you went as far as stripping not only the rewards the account gained, but you also stripped ALL the rewards that the alliance gained too, then I guarantee that you would quickly find the game became self policing.  and all cheaters would be very quickly booted from an alliance they were in.

    Also I have no idea why you think cheating is limited to Botting.  Being able to run a top level account, 24/7 by sharing the users, being able to maximise any boosts you buy by ensuring that account runs 24/7 when legit players have to do things like sleep and eat. are just some of the ways account sharing / running multis, can be a huge advantage.

    I am sure with the amount of data you guys collect you already know who is doing this. when they are doing this, and how big an impact it can have.  Why are you afraid of actioning it?






    Philt123 @ en 1
  • Batten (GB1)Batten (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,104
    The system for opening accounts is at best weak and has been widely exploited.  The system for closing accounts is worse.  I have written to players recently only to find someone completely different is playing the account, you might have known the original player but now have absolutely no idea who the new player is whether it's a new player, an existing player, a multi, a child consequently you just cut contact with that player and distrust the account and alliance the play in.  Those to me seem to areas you could simply have addressed if you wished to.  It isn't okay for accounts to be flying round between different owners without any GGE engagement.  If a player takes an account on they are not spending the rubies (money) or time existing players have spent to get to that point which costs GGE what they would of spent to get to that stage.  Ops I understand being exchanged to support development an account with nuclear heroes I do not.  That is blantantly unfair on all those players doing the hard yards.  Odds are players collecting top accounts in that way are barely known to the players they pass to and the leaving player by that stage doesn't care.  A player account should be locked after a players level of inactivity reaches a certain point and a player should have to communicate a desire to close an account formally to support and support should shut the account.  That would allow for transfer to be communicated and logged and again that log should be open and transparent and visible to all players.  If an account played in Scunthorpe is suddenly played from Mumbai or Riga then perhaps that would be something GGE should pick up and investigate.  Account transfer must be costing an absolute fortune in new income.  
    Batten @ en 1
  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    GGE does nothing cause it does not cost them anything.  Its costs their customers.  One player picks up 6 other accounts, goes after a players castle,  all the troops  and tools lost defending, all the resources to repair, all the loot taken,  that is being stolen, not won, stolen by a guy who is using 7 accounts to attack one or several castles. GGE by not enforcing their own rules, or enforcing them so weakly is actually helping cheaters rip off their customers.  And if the cheater buys a few rubies from time to time so GGE looks the other way, or does not come down to hard on them its more money in their pocket,  and if the players being attacked by the cheaters buys a few replacement tools,  well hallelujah even more money in their pocket.    From a financial standpoint, they are making money at every turn.  When you add the bots in there that just makes those robbing their customers stronger and able to get more,  more often, and faster.    
    Zeps @ usa 1
  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    I can see by all the GGE posts in this discussion they are very concerned about cheating in their game,  next month they can tell us about the (insert some random number of cheaters they caught, we have no way of knowing any better anyway) in another report, brag they took them out of commission a whopping 12 hours,  a few more for 24 hours , a few more for a week and then permanently banned a couple more.   Someone said they noticed a difference so that's good enough.  I dare say it would be hard to tell the difference, when you have a lot full of weeds, pulling a couple hands full every couple months will not make a noticeable difference.   


    Zeps @ usa 1
  • @Batten (GB1) I agree the way to close accounts is poor but a simple - to me - solution to the too easy to set up new account is a plain as possible - once the e-mail has been input it needs a verification from the e-mail account ?

    most banks etc. do this or is it too hard for GGS to do ? @BM ang1243

    I had to close my son's account as he stopped playing and it took 2 weeks and 4/5 e-mails !!!
    :smiley:
    dandelion1958 @ en 1

    Am still playing 8 years on ! - hi lvl 800 on new yrs eve (2017/18) !

    Leading the Targaryens - PS interested in joining - PM any officer in Game :-)
    taking a more relaxed role:-)
    PS in top200 on uk 1 never botted or used a VPN - that's why it took 5 yrs to get to leg 800
  • Surely a simple part-way answer to multi's is for GGE to set up a regular "phone home" situation as standard on every account.  So at random intervals, the user is required to confirm their email address, ie. "Click the link in your email to log into your account".

    Lots of software does this transparently, even my phone randomly asks for my PIN rather than my thumprint.

    Is it really that easy?

    --SD--
  • Zeps (US1)Zeps (US1) Posts: 132
    Doing things to catch the cheaters is not the problem here,  Getting GGE to actually do something...that's the problem, and the whole reason the game is so full of cheaters. I am at war with a group of them right now,  worst case I have ever seen,  if there is a way to cheat,  these guys not only use it but abuse it.  Nothing about their alliance or shells of sub alliances is real.  so many clues to everyone except the GGE haven't got a clue company. 
    Zeps @ usa 1
  • GGE could do a lot to remedy the current situation, but they wont. Surprise, surprise. People who spend money with them will continue to get away with cheating. GGE just do not fekkin care. So long as the money rolls in from those doing the cheating...why should they ??
    makale @ au 1
  • The system for opening accounts is at best weak and has been widely exploited.  The system for closing accounts is worse.  I have written to players recently only to find someone completely different is playing the account, you might have known the original player but now have absolutely no idea who the new player is whether it's a new player, an existing player, a multi, a child consequently you just cut contact with that player and distrust the account and alliance the play in.  Those to me seem to areas you could simply have addressed if you wished to.  It isn't okay for accounts to be flying round between different owners without any GGE engagement.  If a player takes an account on they are not spending the rubies (money) or time existing players have spent to get to that point which costs GGE what they would of spent to get to that stage.  Ops I understand being exchanged to support development an account with nuclear heroes I do not.  That is blantantly unfair on all those players doing the hard yards.  Odds are players collecting top accounts in that way are barely known to the players they pass to and the leaving player by that stage doesn't care.  A player account should be locked after a players level of inactivity reaches a certain point and a player should have to communicate a desire to close an account formally to support and support should shut the account.  That would allow for transfer to be communicated and logged and again that log should be open and transparent and visible to all players.  If an account played in Scunthorpe is suddenly played from Mumbai or Riga then perhaps that would be something GGE should pick up and investigate.  Account transfer must be costing an absolute fortune in new income.  

    I have to agree with what you're saying here. Not sure whether to believe it's the truth or not, but someone made the claim that the account they were playing through no longer belonged to the original owner, and that they and the original owner had gone to GGS and asked for them to transfer the ownership of that account. They claimed that this was not cheating and that GGS approved the whole thing.

    Now, if that's the truth, then I wonder why that was not viewed as password sharing or something similar. Would have thought that would be going against the terms of service.
    I like that boulder. That is a nice boulder.
  • Philt123 (GB1)Philt123 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,839
    From memory there is something in the TOS that said in certain circumstances GGS will transfer an account over, if fact I do know players that have done this and transferred over the account details new E Mail address etc. 
    Why they do this i am not sure, but i know they certainly have done in the past.  How many of the accounts that are out ther playing now that have new owners have been done with GGS knowledge and how many without i am not sure.

    What i do know is that if an existing player is taking over a stronger account they dont do anything to ensure the old account is deleted, so all they do is create is yet another multi even IF the account is officially transferred.  And I suspect the majority never are.



    Philt123 @ en 1
  • answer is simple......MONEY !!!!!
    makale @ au 1
Sign In to comment.