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TORCHERERS vs KoN

147

Comments

  • Tempus (US1)Tempus (US1) US1 Posts: 778
    *lurking intensifies*
    Yil is very fake news.   #MAGA
  • Oehre (US1)Oehre (US1) Posts: 31
    edited 04.01.2016
    blah blah blah does any of you even lift?

  • Nebulous (US1)Nebulous (US1) US1 Posts: 916
    We all know that we've taken something personally at one time or another (even if it was miniscul).

     Everyone needs to stop claiming their not butt-hurt.
     
    Becuase nothing says "I'm not bothered" better than making long posts.    

    (  -  -)  Looking at a specific alliance deputy of the server war.


    I'm here to make pretty castles and recruit defense.
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    mnight (US1) said:
    Oh Manatee...Im not rustled in the slightest.
    Good!  Okay moving on...
    mnight (US1) said:
    We are happy that after so long the all lies finally surfaced  and proved everything we said was the truth. Poor you cant say that. All these months getting played. Must be pretty embarrassing... unless you already knew. Wouldn't shock me if you did since you act towards KoN like a boy band fangirl. Would do you good to realize that its seen that way by more than just us...
    Help me in not letting the personal nature of the rhetoric go too far.  As you know, this is a sore point with me and probably the only thing that gets me really angry in this game / forums: the last time I got involved in debates with MISC personally it ended with attacks on me outside of game and I've sworn not to be baited into that again.

    I asked questions, that is all.  And in other posts I am not stating anything that is not pretty much widespread knowledge, even if heavily contested by you.  You are free to respond how you like, and to have whatever opinions you like of any KoN or GK folks, I just ask that we keep it more debate style than personal is all.  If you don't have specifics and want to just float something as opinion, that is fine too, I do it all the time.
    mnight (US1) said:
    At least Jim has some common sense. You two should talk more.
    I'm glad you bring this up because you are indirectly admitting I have common sense too.
    He'd love to see this war over, and that I would love to see this war over.  We talk every day and there's no difference there.  Been that way since October 31, 2014.  I'm sure there are other things we agree on too :)
    mnight (US1) said:
    I must point out, its you who sound bitter with all the snide comments. I wasn't speaking to you regarding this screen, nor providing it for just your reading pleasure. I was speaking to you regarding the many backhanded comments, and manatee-tales in some other posts in this thread ..toward MISC/Torch and just simply pointing out to you that you can finally stop flailing about.
    I've had a lot of comments thrown my way, but bitter and snide has never been one of them, but I suppose there is a first time for everything.  And I've always thought of myself as pretty straightforward, what is backhanded about mentioning inactive accounts, macro scripts, or your treatment of others?  Are you sure backhanded is the word you were looking for?

    Okay you say your comments about my comment were not about my comment, but about general posts over time.  Got it.
    I'm satisfied then, because it looks like you are agreeing with me then as far as the recent topic of this thread goes: I wasn't denying anything, making any judgement calls on it, or otherwise insulting you or your team about it.  Two things we agree on, whew!
    mnight (US1) said:
    Any readers in this thread that want to see the previous months of battle reports, and war history can do so in EN1 forums. Just go to your addy bar and erase the /us/ and put /en/ in its place.  That way you dont have to rely on tales... you can see things for yourself.
    That's totally fair.  While I'm not on the EN side of the forums anymore, I do recall their posting threads of battle reports.  So anyone wanting to see the enemy's battle reports, go there.  They've been putting them up for a while now I believe.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • the last time I got involved in debates with MISC personally it ended with attacks on me outside of game and I've sworn not to be baited into that again.
    Introducing: Things that never happened - The Movie
  • Tempus (US1)Tempus (US1) US1 Posts: 778
    *lurking intensifies*
    Shhh Shhh get back in the basement. I didn't let you out yet! :p 
    *rubs the lotion on it's skin* 
    Yil is very fake news.   #MAGA
  • WiseDaniel (US1)WiseDaniel (US1) Posts: 575
    edited 04.01.2016
    I'm glad abbie & mnight came back :). I'd go back to lurking if I hadn't revealed myself and didn't need a refill on popcorn and coke. (That diagram made me laugh btw @Oehre (US1) 

    That being said, topics just seemed to disappear in streams of thought. While I have thoughts on all of this, who is the aggressor? If you are the aggressor,  what the heck do you want?

    If it's not property or complete server domination, and to "marginalize", what is GK still doing? Can't 190 alliances do that without you?

    Manatee, you say Neph won't turn on GK, but say they do go after (for example) Hellbent. Do you automatically follow? What if there's no reason, just afraid they'll try to take Neph down in the future? 

    MISC what is the way out? It must be bad knowing you have 90% of the non-neph alliances support but that they can't help for one reason or another. 

    WiseDaniel @ usa 1
  • That is actually not a bad idea

                                                                                                                       

    ~"Obsessed is a word the lazy use to describe the dedicated."~

    ~NL~

  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    WiseDaniel (US1) said:
    That being said, topics just seemed to disappear in streams of thought. While I have thoughts on all of this, who is the aggressor? If you are the aggressor,  what the heck do you want?
    Was that addressed to me?  Aggressor in the strictest sense was KoN, launching a preemptive strike.  As for what they want, they'll have to answer that one, MISC and others don't seem to like mine, it's too vague, lol.

    WiseDaniel (US1) said:
    If it's not property or complete server domination, and to "marginalize", what is GK still doing? Can't 190 alliances do that without you?
    That is a fair question.  We are maintaining status quo for now, as the war is not over.  Of course there is a risk of public perception of us (GK) changing, and we realize that.  It's a calculated risk we take, weighing that against being known as an alliance that can be counted on to remain steadfast through the long haul.  Whether it be future relations with KoN or other alliances we pact with.  Of course, having that outlook led to some issues when it was sister ally fighting sister ally.  Freaking politics.  Potential war with Fight Team was probably the hardest pill to swallow, and that ended coming to fruition.

    WiseDaniel (US1) said:
    Manatee, you say Neph won't turn on GK, but say they do go after (for example) Hellbent. Do you automatically follow? What if there's no reason, just afraid they'll try to take Neph down in the future? 
    No, we wouldn't automatically join them in a war on Hellbent, lol.  Just like we didn't automatically go to war with MISC.  We would do the same thing we did in this case - we discuss among ourselves what GK's stance is, announce our stance, and revise it as new events unfold.  In the KoN - MISC war, we did not enter until weeks later.  

    FUNNY STORY the first time I posted I was not KON on the "end of NEPH" I fell under attacks in ways the game designers couldn't even imagine !! DO YOU REMEMBER THAT MANATEE??? fun times right ? fun times ....

    No.  Honestly, no.  What I recall is you spamming and being asked to stop it.  You took that as an attack via censorship if I remember right. 

    If you mean that stuff between your alliance and the other, then yeah I remember that :)  But it was a different thread and had nothing to do with me though.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    Innocence, no.  Integrity, yes.

    Been pretty much up front about that.  Even if I fail at it, I give it a good try.  
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711

    ok well two out of three isn't so bad is it ?

    What's the third?
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • Woah woah woah. Putting sea creatures above other forms of life? You sir, are a landist. Landism is not okay. We are in another time now. That stuff doesn't fly anymore. Maybe back in the 60s. (BC). But we are in the 21st century now. People are more accepting of other creatures. That kind of Landist talk is what sets us back further as a people, and is completely not okay on a public forum. I myself am of the Land ethnicity and am not okay with the above remarks. Martin Luther King Jr. fought for a LAND without whatever the other thing was. (I think it was racism? Whatever). Landism is soooo under you.

    Here is the very definition of the HORRIFIC act:
    Landism - Noun
    the belief that all members of each (land) possess characteristics or abilities specific to that (land), especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another (sea) or (land).
      prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different (land) based on the belief that one's own (sea) is superior.
    "a program to combat landism"

    Anti Landism 2k16. (16 right?) I don't think I can keep this joke running longer than this. Read my ice castle name and then do me a favor. (Gonna have check in game to get that joke).

    Real Tea.
    -Necro
    Mud Wreslin.
  • Lol why was this thread even opened? The game is meant to war in and thats what both the alliances are doing. Server wars are a major part of the game and its the alliances personal decision to war or not. 
    Well, literally MISC is coward and is attacking all the low levels of our alliance.
  • abbie24601 (US1)abbie24601 (US1) US1 Posts: 411
    mnight (US1) said:

    Serry himself finally admitted that he knew we weren't involved but warred us bc he was worried. We didn't want nor start this war,just as we have always said.. but we will fight to the death to maintain what is ours... things we earned and didn't pay for... while your team continues fighting for... nothing.

    The entire war in a nutshell.  No matter which side you're on, you can't deny the simple facts:

    KON attacked MISC.
    Serry admitted it wasn't because of a secret plot.
    MISC and friends, though seriously outnumbered, have held their ground for 14 months.


    He'd [Jimbo] love to see this war over, and that I would love to see this war over.  


    WiseDaniel (US1) said:
    If it's not property or complete server domination, and to "marginalize", what is GK still doing? Can't 190 alliances do that without you?
    That is a fair question.  We are maintaining status quo for now, as the war is not over.  Of course there is a risk of public perception of us (GK) changing, and we realize that.  It's a calculated risk we take, weighing that against being known as an alliance that can be counted on to remain steadfast through the long haul.  Whether it be future relations with KoN or other alliances we pact with.  Of course, having that outlook led to some issues when it was sister ally fighting sister ally.  Freaking politics.  Potential war with Fight Team was probably the hardest pill to swallow, and that ended coming to fruition.

    In light of everything, the best conclusion I can come up with is that GK is afraid of KON.  Lots of respectable players and alliance have backed out of this war (on both sides).  I don't see how GK's reputation would be negatively affected by that.  Certainly nobody on the MISC side of things would object!  That said, I don't envy your position (if you truly want out of the war), but the only potential negative that I can see is that it would piss off KON. 

    THE STUD FINDER OF THE FIGHT TEAM

  • Manatee, the aggressor comment was to both sides.  I've had a few encounters with MISC taking RVs (though our members get warned and I get SSs showing they were taken and dropped, but still).  One or two positive encounters with your side taking RVs.  We're not unreasonable, I don't mind trading.  Hell, I don't even mind trading between types if you're just nice about it.  You are at war, close RVs are important.  Please ask first though (or the "I'm sorry, I don't have one to trade so I just took this one" excuse I got last week didn't fly).

    The fundamental question does come down to, what do you want.  At the start, I thought GK entered into it just because it was a war.  You guys are good at what you do, smashing things.  Then things changed to the situation we're at now.

    Now, I don't see you at the top of the boards anymore.  Where is GK at in storm?  I see KoN 2 and other KoN alliances there (I had to work not to join one for my equip pieces last time).  Where are you in normal events? FC, you guys should be great at it.  Beri, where are your players? (rabi, Negan and Bellow are the top.  I have to go down to find y'all).  KoN and KoN2 are there.  Where is WoK?  I see you guys are constantly hitting, but never with the rest of us on the server.  If that's what you want, cool.  But we'd like you to join us if that's cool.

    Also, I don't know where I'm at personally with my opinion on GK.  I guess it's like you in the war, you like people on both sides.  I'm just on the outside looking in and forming impressions from my interactions, how the alliances deal with my members who aren't able to defend themselves and from what I hear from old friends.  I've gone from "dang their good at the game" to "their just doing the dirty work".  Then I got a message on Skype from a troll saying you had actually taken a "subship" (word?) from KoN and I didn't question it...found out that I was delusional that night but that I was connecting you guys way too closely in my mind when I don't do that with other "allies" of KoN.

    Now I'm back to you guys just being great at what you do but being sucked into a vortex of constant war mentality. Unlike many others, I don't think you're there for property but I'm not really sure when GK will end it if Neph never stops.  

    Nothing I say will shape policy and that's cool, but you've answered a lot of questions that I've had and for that I'm greatful.  My concern with the question regarding Hellbent or TNP or Camelot (or if they started with Horde, start with the new strong right?) was that Neph would threaten you (not for your sake, you can handle yourself. For the rest of us).  "Follow us, they will threaten both of us in the future.  If WE don't now, then we'll have to stand ALONE.  You wouldn't want that would you?"
    WiseDaniel @ usa 1
  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    No problem WiseDaniel.  I love to talk so I don't mind answering any questions.  All I ask is that people be reasonable like you've been.  I'm having a lot of trouble with the quoting crap that GGE calls a forum though, so my responses will be in bold italics.


    WiseDaniel (US1)
    said:
    The fundamental question does come down to, what do you want.  At the start, I thought GK entered into it just because it was a war.  You guys are good at what you do, smashing things.  Then things changed to the situation we're at now.
    We were strong before entering this war, but not compared to now (we were still feeling our way).  That's why when we joined in, others thought we'd be steamrolled.  Never been in it just to smash things, what we wanted was to support an ally in a war where we see one side preferable over the other.  We're not saying anybody's perfect, just that was our reason whether folks agree with us or not.  FT always had the 'we love to fight' mantra, and MISC always wanted to watch the world burn.  GK was a few notches below them on the smashing scale, lol.
    Now, I don't see you at the top of the boards anymore.  Where is GK at in storm?  I see KoN 2 and other KoN alliances there (I had to work not to join one for my equip pieces last time).  Where are you in normal events? FC, you guys should be great at it.  Beri, where are your players? (rabi, Negan and Bellow are the top.  I have to go down to find y'all).
    Well honestly nobody ever did see us on top of the boards, so I'm not sure what you mean.  Prior to the war we were mostly a top 10 to 20 alliance all around.  Since the war we've consistently been a top 10 all around and that hasn't changed.  Sometimes (recently) we'll push into top 5 for something like nomads or something, but that's not common.  (Storms we went for top 5 a couple times until we got our gear and gems, and once we tried to see if we could beat KoN, but after that we lost interest.  There just isn't much Storms has to offer us compared to other events.)

    Are you saying you'd like us to compete for the top spots?  That's not really something that's been on our radar.  We're comfortable being strong, having fun, and not stooping to some of the things other alliances do.  I never thought we'd be viewed as an alliance that was near the top of events at the beginning of (and prior to) this war, only in terms of general strength.  But I guess it goes to show you that when it comes to the forums, you just can't win :P


    Then I got a message on Skype from a troll saying you had actually taken a "subship" (word?) from KoN and I didn't question it...found out that I was delusional that night but that I was connecting you guys way too closely in my mind when I don't do that with other "allies" of KoN.
    Not sure what this means, let me know?

    Now I'm back to you guys just being great at what you do but being sucked into a vortex of constant war mentality. Unlike many others, I don't think you're there for property but I'm not really sure when GK will end it if Neph never stops.  
    There's always an end somewhere.  Let's just make MISC a sub of KoN and get this done with.  :P
    Okay more seriously - I don't have that answer for you.


    Nothing I say will shape policy and that's cool, but you've answered a lot of questions that I've had and for that I'm greatful.  My concern with the question regarding Hellbent or TNP or Camelot (or if they started with Horde, start with the new strong right?) was that Neph would threaten you (not for your sake, you can handle yourself. For the rest of us).  "Follow us, they will threaten both of us in the future.  If WE don't now, then we'll have to stand ALONE.  You wouldn't want that would you?"
    I understand you thinking that because we've fought MISC and HIVE.  But it's not the reality of our relationship.  Could that change in the future?  Sure.  Just like Hellbent could become an alliance of only 4 people.  Possibilities are endless, but the current reality is not that which MISC and some members of FT have previously tried to portray.  Just don't buy in, WiseDaniel :)

    Personally I do not think we'd be okay if KoN were to threaten or war us.  They are not MISC, they're 1000% more active and stronger.  But there's no reason for us to ever think that would happen.  Why would it, because someone in MISC (our enemy) says so?  Keep in mind, we've never had leaders doing what various members of MISC or old HIVE had done.  We're ambitious for our own strength and having fun, not for being top dogs on the server.  I can't stop you from believing that, but don't you think it's just a bit ... off?

    Anyway, if KoN goes to war with someone and we don't agree with it, we don't join in.  Simple as that.



    abbie24601 (US1) said
    In light of everything, the best conclusion I can come up with is that GK is afraid of KON.  Lots of respectable players and alliance have backed out of this war (on both sides).  I don't see how GK's reputation would be negatively affected by that.  Certainly nobody on the MISC side of things would object!  That said, I don't envy your position (if you truly want out of the war), but the only potential negative that I can see is that it would piss off KON. 

    Us fearing leaving the war when others have done so with no issues or fallout?  You are entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't make much sense from my perspective.  If we want to leave, we'll just leave.  We've been asked by your side almost non-stop since last year to leave the war, or to join your side.  It's just not what we believe in.  Perhaps things change in the future, all I can speak about is the present.

    The negative reputation I meant, is being constantly associated as an alliance at war and the continual forum mish-mash that is spread about - we have to deal with that and it's not always to our benefit.  It was not a comment about leaving war... that and the steadfast comment were two different things.

    I guess if what you got from my post was that we want 'out of war' then I'm sorry for making a mess of my post and being unclear.  It's not wanting out of war, it's that we'd love to see a conclusion.  For the war to be over (not for us to leave it).  I think it's basically been won, but then again I don't share the same goals as everyone else, and it's not a big sticking point for me.

    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • abbie24601 (US1)abbie24601 (US1) US1 Posts: 411
    edited 06.01.2016



    Us fearing leaving the war when others have done so with no issues or fallout?  You are entitled to that opinion, but it doesn't make much sense from my perspective.  If we want to leave, we'll just leave.  We've been asked by your side almost non-stop since last year to leave the war, or to join your side.  It's just not what we believe in.  Perhaps things change in the future, all I can speak about is the present.

    The negative reputation I meant, is being constantly associated as an alliance at war and the continual forum mish-mash that is spread about - we have to deal with that and it's not always to our benefit.  It was not a comment about leaving war... that and the steadfast comment were two different things.

    I guess if what you got from my post was that we want 'out of war' then I'm sorry for making a mess of my post and being unclear.  It's not wanting out of war, it's that we'd love to see a conclusion.  For the war to be over (not for us to leave it).  I think it's basically been won, but then again I don't share the same goals as everyone else, and it's not a big sticking point for me.

    Well, I guess I shouldn't have expected to have a totally candid conversation on the forum, but the general consensus I get from GK is that they're sick of it and want out.  Hell, I'm sick of it too, but being on the defensive side of things makes bowing out a far less tempting option.  Every GK-related issue I've dealt with in this war required KON-approval.   I have yet to see GK act on its own.   I'm not saying it won't ever happen, but surely you can understand why I have trouble believing that GK would ever "just leave."

    p.s. I don't think your post was unclear.  I probably read too much into it, but I do stand by my point.... if the day ever comes when GK doesn't act in accordance with KON, then I'll admit to being wrong. 

    THE STUD FINDER OF THE FIGHT TEAM

  • Manatee (US1)Manatee (US1) Posts: 2,711
    Abbie, it is a candid conversation.  I realize you're not being a jerk or anything, maybe we're looking at the questions / answers from two different angles.  I'll either be taken at face value about this or not.

    To me, what you are saying is the same as me saying this: "FT made a huge mistake choosing MISC's side and spends all of its days regretting it's decision" - just because some people from FT spoke to me who felt that way.  Now do I think that is what FT is?  Of course not.  Did I really have those conversations?  Yes.  But I also realize it's just a sampling of various people who have different opinions, and the ones willing to talk to me are more likely to be those with frustrations or with possible GK sympathies.  But I know deep down that's just certain individuals and not reflective of most of FT.  I've also had conversations with GK members who have wanted us out of the war.  And with M:U.  It's the same in every alliance, friend or foe.  Well, I haven't heard that from MISC itself probably for obvious reasons.

    And when someone asks what GK wants to do, or why GK remains in the war, the answer is what I gave earlier.  We're not a gestapo, we don't force everyone to agree with us and we try to run the alliance in a fashion that takes into consideration the wishes of the majority.  We as officers have an influence on that just like all alliances, sure.  And we're still going to have members with individual opinions just like FT does.  At the end of the day, we can all use these things for forum propaganda, or for trying to convince others to join our side/leave yours, etc.  It's war and this is a part of it.

    Anyway, I don't even understand how people think there's some kind of fear element.  So you think KoN would war us, after being an ally so long in this war?  How does that even make sense?  There aren't even any personality clashes a la MISC / DT.  We're not even an alliance that schemes or has much inclination for mega-empire building, so look at it from my perspective, it just doesn't even register except as something you and a few others are asking about on the forums.

    p.s. I don't think your post was unclear.  I probably read too much into it, but I do stand by my point.... if the day ever comes when GK doesn't act in accordance with KON, then I'll admit to being wrong. 
    As a member of the war you already know of several instances now, including one of the bigger events that occurred over the past several months.  If you've been gone for real life issues for a while, then just ask around.  You don't even need to admit anything.  If we weren't independent with our own values, we wouldn't be as strong an ally, simple as that.
    manateesharkjpeg


    Manatee @ usa 1
    My ideal method of suicide: climbing Ultimo's ego and jumping to his IQ
  • abbie24601 (US1)abbie24601 (US1) US1 Posts: 411
    Abbie, it is a candid conversation.  I realize you're not being a jerk or anything, maybe we're looking at the questions / answers from two different angles.  I'll either be taken at face value about this or not.... To me, what you are saying is the same as me saying this: "FT made a huge mistake choosing MISC's side and spends all of its days regretting it's decision" - just because some people from FT spoke to me who felt that way.  Now do I think that is what FT is?  Of course not.  Did I really have those conversations?  Yes.  But I also realize it's just a sampling of various people who have different opinions, and the ones willing to talk to me are more likely to be those with frustrations or with possible GK sympathies.  But I know deep down that's just certain individuals and not reflective of re of FT.  

    You're right as to the individual opinion not necessarily being reflective of the whole alliance.  

    Anyway, I don't even understand how people think there's some kind of fear element.  So you think KoN would war us, after being an ally so long in this war?  How does that even make sense?  There aren't even any personality clashes a la MISC / DT.  We're not even an alliance that schemes or has much inclination for mega-empire building, so look at it from my perspective, it just doesn't even register except as something you and a few others are asking about on the forums.

    I'm sure there was a time MISC would have said something similar.  They were allies with KON for as long, if not longer, than GK.  But, I don't have a crystal ball.  What I do know is that when KON gets bored and/or needs glory, they will find a reason.  I'd hate to see you be accused of plotting to overthrow them...

    Perhaps fear is not the best word.  During the HIVE war, we fought on KON's side simply because we thought KON would win.  There was a certain amount of KON ass-kissing we did simply for the peace of mind and security that came with it.  I can't judge anyone for it, but I certainly know it when I see it.  I'm glad I don't play that way anymore.

    If someone will lead the server into a very expensive 14-month-long-and-counting war, spend $3K on a capital, and "has a guy" at GGE, why is it so surprising that he might later turn on GK?  

    I know you can't/won't say here, but how the hell do you fight for Serry?  I will never understand how all these KON subs fight for a leader they don't even like.

    THE STUD FINDER OF THE FIGHT TEAM

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