Neph and subs of subs

Avius

From the onset let me say that I have respect for NEPH and what they have accomplished.

I lead an alliance that is a sub of a top 20 alliance who is a sub of a top 5 alliance. Because NEPH is allied with the top alliance they don't have a pact with the alliance above mine. We have been told in the past that NEPH doesn't recognize pacts extending to subs of subs. Which is fine. I tell my members that any sub of NEPH is off limits. The problem is that we get hit by subs of their subs. When we retaliate the are immediately taking the stance that they are a fully protected training sub and immediately threaten to escalate it. Which makes it pretty frustrating to explain to members that we won't ask our parent alliance to intervene due to pacts even when it is their first response to a fair glory hit in response to a glory hit on us.

My purpose is not to whine about it and I am not complaining about NEPH as a whole. I do know that there are more senior member of KoN that frequent the forums than I hope to come in contact with for a long time. I was hoping to get an opinion from them about how to address this in the future.

TannerM. (US1)

While I may not be a member of Neph, odds are, they're probably bluffing about bringing in their parent alliance. If they do, run it up the chain of command to your parent alliance and let the adults handle the situation. With how many other alliances there are out there, seems kind of odd that you're running into issues with fighting another alliance associated to neph.

Avius

To clarify, we are not a sub of NEPH. We are a sub of another major alliance that has a pact with NEPH.

gmdclark

I'm an officer of a Neph sub. In general, we recognize the pact as going all the way down the chain. Because of that, if you attacked one of our training subs, we might very well get involved: on a diplomacy front before a military front. So I think your mistake was in thinking that Neph subs don't see subs-of-subs as allies.

There are exceptions. Hell, MISC was at war with us for a month. Didn't start a server war.

Avius

I would agree with that as well. I guess the issue I run into is sub of subs of NEPH launching attacks and then when you retaliate with a fair hit back from the player that got hit they want to run it all the way up the ladder. I don't think it is indicative of the group as a whole, but rather some 13 year old level 20 player who thinks that having NEPH in the name of his alliance means he is invincible.

LongShankss

so a sub of a sub is been hit by a sub of a sub of an ally that is also ally with the main branch of this sub of sub that we're talking about and he's wondering if subs of subs can still have their agreement with the other main branch leader of the other sub of sub hitting them...typical empire problem

Manatee (US1)

How many subs could a good sub sub if a good sub could sub subs?

Answer:
A good sub would sub all the subs he could sub if a good sub could sub subs.

Avius

Or more directly if a level 25 member of a NEPH sub sub hits a level 28 member of a sub of a sub of a KoN ally then runs to the direct sub about the same member hitting them back, will the direct sub explain that it is a war game and not to hit castles if they can't take a hit back.

gmdclark

Avius wrote: »

Or more directly if a level 25 member of a NEPH sub sub hits a level 28 member of a sub of a sub of a KoN ally then runs to the direct sub about the same member hitting them back, will the direct sub explain that it is a war game and not to hit castles if they can't take a hit back.

I can't speak for how all officers of all subs would react, but for us? Our subs are training environments. I can't think of a single time we've gotten involved downstream like that. The requests generally come the opposite direction (us asking our subs to engage, or KON main asking us to engage). Only exception to that I can think of involved regular attacks plus sexually harassing messages from the attacker, but they were a rogue problem not connected via any pacts.

But, to be frank ... it isn't as if we don't WANT you to be afraid that might happen.

JJ-5792

ok, so I don't know the exact problem, but I do know a few things about the KoN structure.

KoN main alliance is pacted to certain top tier alliances. like Misc, DT, GK etc. these can be found in our alliance description. these pacts are UNIVERSAL and must be respected by ALL KoN alliances.

our subs are allowed to make their own pacts but they are NOT universal. only that sub will respect those pacts all other KoN alliances are not bound.

now, KoN protects all of its subs and 2 training subs of those subs. making about 35 protected alliances. if these subs cry wolf after 1 or 2 attacks then they don't deserve to be one of our subs.

alliances are allowed to attack KoN subs and KoN main. but any mass attacks or ANY ATTACK ON ANY POWER POINT will result in KoN main intervention. 1v1 attacks are exactly what they are and should be seen as such.

Eric768 (US1)

JJ-5792 wrote: »

Now, KoN protects all of its subs and 2 training subs of those subs. Making about 35 protected alliances. If these subs cry wolf after 1 or 2 attacks then they don't deserve to be one of our subs.

I like your ending sentence there..

Now is that 35 direct subs, or 35 total subs and subs of subs combined? Because I think I've seen a lot more than 35 on the map with those 2 allowed subs of subs.

Unknown

X(X(X(:cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing::cursing:

Avius

JJ-5792 wrote: »

now, KoN protects all of its subs and 2 training subs of those subs. making about 35 protected alliances. if these subs cry wolf after 1 or 2 attacks then they don't deserve to be one of our subs.

That is kinda what I was hoping to confirm and a very reasonable answer. I have no lack of respect for the well earned strength of NEPH and that respect extends to thinking that they would expect a low level player to take it on the chin when an equal player retaliates for an attack in an honorable way.

Brocefus

If you want to know the total count it is 25 core alliances including KON so KON and its direct subs. Plus 55 subs of subs. That is what is protected 80 including KON. This was trimmed down from about 110 120 after the last major war.

Subs of subs that are not directly protected may still be "protected" by the Sub of KON so you may have to deal with KON2, KON3, etc.. if you harass one of their training subs.

Just as JJ said if subs are crying over 1 or 2 hits then we tend to deal with the person crying.

Although being a member of Free Kingdoms a direct sub of KON we came in with our subs so we have 13 subs of those 55. We FK protect our subs when they are being harassed but from what I have seen most conflicts are resolved diplomatically.

JediMstr (US1)

Brocefus wrote: »

If you want to know the total count it is 25 core alliances including KON so KON and its direct subs. Plus 55 subs of subs. That is what is protected 80 including KON. This was trimmed down from about 110 120 after the last major war.

Subs of subs that are not directly protected may still be "protected" by the Sub of KON so you may have to deal with KON2, KON3, etc.. if you harass one of their training subs.

Just as JJ said if subs are crying over 1 or 2 hits then we tend to deal with the person crying.

Although being a member of Free Kingdoms a direct sub of KON we came in with our subs so we have 13 subs of those 55. We FK protect our subs when they are being harassed but from what I have seen most conflicts are resolved diplomatically.

I agree with Brocefus. most issues that occur below the 25 Core KoN direct subs (that number being 55) are usually handled below the main KON subs (25) I'm a part of Free Kingdoms and we have lasions for our training subs, who share info back and forth regarding issues or questions that need addressing. WE encourage our training subs to deal with Alliance problems themselves. If there are trouble makers that are attacking witin or without our list of KON friendlies. Then it enouraged to deal with it where it started. Not to automatcally brings up issues all the way up to KON.

Any Questions8)8)8) http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/empire/images/smilies/cool.png

happyplanet

go AoD defiance!

happyplanet

you know there war a war between AoD defiance and KON recently

AgentO07 (US1)

avius is the sioux nation they are us. in the crazyones our subs are us not a sub at all. avius whats the issue? contact me ingame.

Dark Chicken (US1)

JJ-5792 wrote: »

alliances are allowed to attack KoN subs and KoN main. but any mass attacks or ANY ATTACK ON ANY POWER POINT will result in KoN main intervention. 1v1 attacks are exactly what they are and should be seen as such.

Really? glad to finally hear this from a KoN officer himself, because every time i've ever attacked a KoN alliance, (granted, they were subs of subs) they've threatened me with the 307th ring of hell.

JJ-5792

Dark Chicken wrote: »

Really? glad to finally hear this from a KoN officer himself, because every time i've ever attacked a KoN alliance, (granted, they were subs of subs) they've threatened me with the 307th ring of hell.

just make sure many of you aren't hitting the same player, and many of you aren't attacking the same alliance at the same time. gives the players defense experience, its a good thing. then when we call on them for war they are ready. 1v1, go for it. if an issue arises, try to resolve it yourselves. contact a main general if you cannot and we will mediate it.

deathsweeper (US1)

JJ-5792 wrote: »

alliances are allowed to attack KoN subs and KoN main. but any mass attacks or ANY ATTACK ON ANY POWER POINT will result in KoN main intervention. 1v1 attacks are exactly what they are and should be seen as such.

A few days ago a member of mine attacked a guy in a Neph branch. The defender (KoN) was a higher level than the attacker ( My alliance). The attack was succcesul and he won. Then a few days later I get hit by 1040 troops. I'm completely fine with glory hits and always enjoy defending them but then after I won I get a message from the attacker saying glory hits aren't accepted and next time it will be his KGs. It's not the attack that bothered me but the fact that he said glory hits aren't accepted. I responded by saying this is a war game and glory hits are part of it. I received no response afterward.