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Food production build item

Hello everyone!

Recently i faced a bug, due to which in greens my base food production build item gets replaced by a simple one.
I placed base food build production in granaries with 100 % FP.
But after sometime noticed a drop in Food production.At first i thought replacing it would solve the problem but it didn't. Replaced it continuously thus losing coins (24,300 coins each).
Then contacted support but no replies.

If anyone can help me out with this please do.

Thank you very much :)
Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
Base PP: 700K+ 

Non-Ruby Player 
That's all... ;)

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Beste Antwort

Antworten

  • The Torrent (GB1)The Torrent (GB1) Beiträge: 485GB1
    Base food is not always better (but in the end it will be) it depends on your PO.
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  • BM FujiwaraBM Fujiwara Beiträge: 576
    bearbeitet 29.07.2018
    The calculations are pretty straightforward.


    Food production = A x B x C, so here it's 235 x 1.00 x 11.40

    For base food item calculations, A is the bonus from the item, B is the prod% of the granary (so 42% for the 6th granary/farmhouse in your main castle, or x 0.42), and C is the production you've managed to reach with your flour mills/PO etc and will be the same for each of the granaries in that castle.

    So say the food item gives +55, the maths is 55 x 0.42 x 11.40 for a 42% building in that castle. This is 263 or so. If two of these is greater than the food loss from removing a decoration, it's worth removing the decoration.

    There's a slightly deeper bit of calculations for really hardcore minmaxing, but the above system will get you so close to being fully optimised that it's not worth the extra mile. After you've worked out how many base items you want, add another 15 granaries for non-base items and you're set (removing a decoration is very unlikely to drop food prod by more than 400 unless you really don't have enough decos).

    As a rule of thumb for those who don't want to do the maths, I tend to recommend {baseProduction}+3 for base items (so 6 in green main, 9 in 6-food outposts and 11 in 8-food outposts), then another 15 for non base items. {baseProduction}+4 in kingdoms where you have over half the max RVs, {baseProduction}+3 if you don't.

    Hope that helps :)

    EDIT: Regarding the actual swapping of items, there's an auto-calc in the game system that adjusts the prod% to maximise food production, and if you have a very low level base item and a maxed non-base item, you may find it switches the % productivity of the granaries, looking like it put the wrong item on the wrong granary. The easiest way to fix/check this is remove all the items on that castle, then put the bases out onto the 100% buildings, and work down from there, then the non-bases on the rest.

    A level 7 base item should out-produce any non-base item on a 100% granary unless your PO is far too low for the castle.
    fujiwara @ en-1
    fujiwara @ us-1

  • Herveus (AU1)Herveus (AU1) Beiträge: 10,654AU1
    The calculations are pretty straightforward.


    Food production = A x B x C, so here it's 235 x 1.00 x 11.40

    For base food item calculations, A is the bonus from the item, B is the prod% of the granary (so 42% for the 6th granary/farmhouse in your main castle, or x 0.42), and C is the production you've managed to reach with your flour mills/PO etc and will be the same for each of the granaries in that castle.

    So say the food item gives +55, the maths is 55 x 0.42 x 11.40 for a 42% building in that castle. This is 263 or so. If two of these is greater than the food loss from removing a decoration, it's worth removing the decoration.

    There's a slightly deeper bit of calculations for really hardcore minmaxing, but the above system will get you so close to being fully optimised that it's not worth the extra mile. After you've worked out how many base items you want, add another 15 granaries for non-base items and you're set (removing a decoration is very unlikely to drop food prod by more than 400 unless you really don't have enough decos).

    As a rule of thumb for those who don't want to do the maths, I tend to recommend {baseProduction}+3 for base items (so 6 in green main, 9 in 6-food outposts and 11 in 8-food outposts), then another 15 for non base items. {baseProduction}+4 in kingdoms where you have over half the max RVs, {baseProduction}+3 if you don't.

    Hope that helps :)

    EDIT: Regarding the actual swapping of items, there's an auto-calc in the game system that adjusts the prod% to maximise food production, and if you have a very low level base item and a maxed non-base item, you may find it switches the % productivity of the granaries, looking like it put the wrong item on the wrong granary. The easiest way to fix/check this is remove all the items on that castle, then put the bases out onto the 100% buildings, and work down from there, then the non-bases on the rest.

    A level 7 base item should out-produce any non-base item on a 100% granary unless your PO is far too low for the castle.
    Pretty straight forward if you got the 1140% already but getting those is not as straightforward, also even before the introduction of the level 14 base items it was easily possible to make 27 granaries the bes, got a spreadsheet with the math for it done already just gonna make it look better. Also in green down to 31% or 23% depending on your deco with base food items, in outers down to 23% in outers 17% if you got very good po [speaking all decos better than 285]


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  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1


    EDIT: Regarding the actual swapping of items, there's an auto-calc in the game system that adjusts the prod% to maximise food production, and if you have a very low level base item and a maxed non-base item, you may find it switches the % productivity of the granaries, looking like it put the wrong item on the wrong granary. The easiest way to fix/check this is remove all the items on that castle, then put the bases out onto the 100% buildings, and work down from there, then the non-bases on the rest.

    A level 7 base item should out-produce any non-base item on a 100% granary unless your PO is far too low for the castle.
    Actually the base food item i placed there is of level 8 and gives me FP of about 1066 still it gets replaced by a level 9 simple food item and gives me FP of 900 +.
    It seems like a small loss of 100 or 150 but multiply that by 8 in a 8 food op you get a loss of 800 or 1200 respectively which is a lot.
     
    Seems like a bug to me 
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • BM FujiwaraBM Fujiwara Beiträge: 576
    bearbeitet 29.07.2018
    Pretty straight forward if you got the 1140% already but getting those is not as straightforward, also even before the introduction of the level 14 base items it was easily possible to make 27 granaries the bes, got a spreadsheet with the math for it done already just gonna make it look better. Also in green down to 31% or 23% depending on your deco with base food items, in outers down to 23% in outers 17% if you got very good po [speaking all decos better than 285]
    Yeah, I agree with this. I think getting to grips with the basics of it and recognising that "all 100% buildings plus a couple more, then 15 more non-base items" is key. There's always diminishing returns on the fine tune min-maxing anyway, like plus or minus a single % often.

    The number of people who just sit there with 8 granaries in green main and think they might already have too many is a bit puzzling. Those who love the spreadsheet theorycrafting are probably not the people who need the pointers :smiley:

    Actually the base food item i placed there is of level 8 and gives me FP of about 1066 still it gets replaced by a level 9 simple food item and gives me FP of 900 +.
    It seems like a small loss of 100 or 150 but multiply that by 8 in a 8 food op you get a loss of 800 or 1200 respectively which is a lot.
     
    Seems like a bug to me 
    Could you list the granaries, their level, prod%, and the item that it's stuck on each (base/straight, and level), and I'll see if it looks bugged. It does sound like something fishy is going on.
    fujiwara @ en-1
    fujiwara @ us-1

  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    bearbeitet 29.07.2018

    Could you list the granaries, their level, prod%, and the item that it's stuck on each (base/straight, and level), and I'll see if it looks bugged. It does sound like something fishy is going on.
    Level 2
    Basic production: 144
    Productivity: 741%
    Production:100%
    Food/Hr: 1066
    Food Item: Basic Food Production build item level 8

    (All are similar to this ) X 8
    It has been 3 hours since i swapped them again and it didn't changed back.Hopefully it won't :smile:
    Thank you for helping me BM Fujiwara :smiley:
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    bearbeitet 30.07.2018
    Thank you once again for helping me out BM Fujiwara the problem seems to have been solved :)

    You may close this thread 
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • Wiglema (NL1)Wiglema (NL1) Beiträge: 406NL1
    Could you list the granaries, their level, prod%, and the item that it's stuck on each (base/straight, and level), and I'll see if it looks bugged. It does sound like something fishy is going on.
    I never checked whether it perhaps got fixed, but there is/was indeed a bug that supposedly got forwarded to the team by a German moderator in September 2016. I never received any feedback after that.
    A detailed bug description is available here (in German, use a translation tool if you need a different language):
    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/de/discussion/comment/4555574#Comment_4555574
    Wiglema (NL1)
  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    Could you list the granaries, their level, prod%, and the item that it's stuck on each (base/straight, and level), and I'll see if it looks bugged. It does sound like something fishy is going on.
    I never checked whether it perhaps got fixed, but there is/was indeed a bug that supposedly got forwarded to the team by a German moderator in September 2016. I never received any feedback after that.
    A detailed bug description is available here (in German, use a translation tool if you need a different language):
    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/de/discussion/comment/4555574#Comment_4555574
    Yes it is a bug.
    It suddenly got resolved and the next day i got response from the support.

    Here's an Screen shot 
    http://prntscr.com/kctrzp
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • Wiglema (NL1)Wiglema (NL1) Beiträge: 406NL1
    Could you list the granaries, their level, prod%, and the item that it's stuck on each (base/straight, and level), and I'll see if it looks bugged. It does sound like something fishy is going on.
    I never checked whether it perhaps got fixed, but there is/was indeed a bug that supposedly got forwarded to the team by a German moderator in September 2016. I never received any feedback after that.
    A detailed bug description is available here (in German, use a translation tool if you need a different language):
    https://community.goodgamestudios.com/empire/de/discussion/comment/4555574#Comment_4555574
    Yes it is a bug.
    It suddenly got resolved and the next day i got response from the support.

    Here's an Screen shot 
    http://prntscr.com/kctrzp
    The screenshot only says that they know about the problem and are working on solving it as soon as possible.

    Actually, they know about the problem for 22 months already, so I don't really believe in "as soon as possible" anymore...

    Anyway, when I have time, I'll test whether the problem is actually still the same as in 2016.
    Wiglema (NL1)
  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    Okay sure :) 

    Whenever you check please do tell what you found out.

    Thank you :)
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • BM FujiwaraBM Fujiwara Beiträge: 576
    Thanks Wiglema, this kind of work is exactly what I can wave at people. I'll be throwing this post at the QA team tomorrow, and will post feedback I get from it :)
    fujiwara @ en-1
    fujiwara @ us-1

  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    bearbeitet 02.08.2018
    After waiting for my building construction slots to be free, I did a bit of testing.
    Short story:

    The bug is still there.

    Long story:

    In a food+stone outpost I built six stone quarries, let's call them A, B, C, D, E, and F.
    Overall stone production rate due to decoration etc. was at 453%.
    In the beginning, no building items were attached.

    Situation at time=0.
    A : level 1, occupancy 100%, base production 8/h, actual 36/h
    B : level 1, occupancy 100%, base production 8/h, actual 36/h
    C : level 1, occupancy  75%, base production 8/h, actual 27/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  56%, base production 8/h, actual 20/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production 8/h, actual 15/h
    F : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production 8/h, actual 11/h
    Total stone production 154.69/h (including 8.9 from the keep)

    (The difference between the total of the individual buildings and the total shown in the production bar at the top of the game window is mainly due to rounding; we'll ignore that for this test.)
    First test was to see whether the highest building level automatically gets the highest occupancy rate.
    So, I upgraded F.

    Situation at time=1.
    A : level 1, occupancy 100%, base production  8/h, actual 36/h
    B : level 1, occupancy  75%, base production  8/h, actual 27/h
    C : level 1, occupancy  56%, base production  8/h, actual 20/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production  8/h, actual 15/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual 11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual 58/h
    Total stone production 177.2/h

    So far so good. This seems to work as intended.
    Next test was to see if this also works when a build item is involved.
    So, first I attached a base production build item level 1 (+10/h) to F.

    Situation at time=2.
    A : level 1, occupancy 100%, base production  8/h, actual  36/h
    B : level 1, occupancy  75%, base production  8/h, actual  27/h
    C : level 1, occupancy  56%, base production  8/h, actual  20/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production  8/h, actual  15/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual  11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 23/h, actual 104/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 222.2/h

    Nothing special yet. Only F's production has increased (as expected).
    Now, let's upgrade the other quarries, one by one.

    Situation at time=3.
    A : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    B : level 1, occupancy  75%, base production  8/h, actual  27/h
    C : level 1, occupancy  56%, base production  8/h, actual  20/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production  8/h, actual  15/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual  11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 23/h, actual 104/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 244.7/h

    Good.

    Situation at time=4.
    A : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    B : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    C : level 1, occupancy  56%, base production  8/h, actual  20/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production  8/h, actual  15/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual  11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy  75%, base production 23/h, actual  78/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 250.3/h

    Not good.

    Situation at time=5.
    A : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    B : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    C : level 2, occupancy  75%, base production 13/h, actual  44/h
    D : level 1, occupancy  42%, base production  8/h, actual  15/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual  11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy  56%, base production 23/h, actual  58/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 254.5/h

    Situation at time=6.
    A : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    B : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    C : level 2, occupancy  75%, base production 13/h, actual  44/h
    D : level 2, occupancy  56%, base production 13/h, actual  33/h
    E : level 1, occupancy  31%, base production  8/h, actual  11/h
    F : level 2, occupancy  42%, base production 23/h, actual  43/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 257.7/h

    Situation at time=7.
    A : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    B : level 2, occupancy 100%, base production 13/h, actual  58/h
    C : level 2, occupancy  75%, base production 13/h, actual  44/h
    D : level 2, occupancy  56%, base production 13/h, actual  33/h
    E : level 2, occupancy  42%, base production 13/h, actual  24/h
    F : level 2, occupancy  31%, base production 23/h, actual  32/h (build item level 1)
    Total stone production 260.0/h

    Not good at all!
    The quarry with the build item now has the lowest occupancy rate, even though none of the other quarries have a higher building level.
    I could of course remove the build item (and loose a few coins) and attach it to one of the quarries that now have 100% occupancy, but when upgrading further, I would likely have to keep moving it around to keep production at the highest possible level.

    I've also calculated what the total production should have been in the proper functioning case and plotted the results in a graph:


    One final remark, a question specifically for GGS:
    Why do players have to do the testing that GGS's (payed!) testers should have done?
    GGS know about this problem for at least 22 months already and it's still there.

    By the way, I have some idea what the conditions are for this bug to happen (it doesn't happen in all situations), but it would require more testing to confirm.
    I will not do that.
    It's GGS's job to do that and I have already spent too much on these tests.
    (Small amounts of coins, wood, stone, sand, bricks, skips, and large amounts of time...)

    Edit: I tested with stone quarries instead of granaries, because my 100% granaries are already at the highest level, and I don't want to destroy them just for testing. ;-)
    I actually intended to try this on the test server, but I was unable to reach it. While loading, the page reset to the default server every time.

    Thank you very much Wiglema for sharing this and doing all the process :)

    Hopefully we will get it solved this time :) 
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • BM FujiwaraBM Fujiwara Beiträge: 576
    Sorry for the long delay, I wanted to make sure the conversation with the QA team had finished before I posted any updates. This is confirmed as a bug, it's also been confirmed as a relatively low priority bug (because it mostly resolves itself apparently when further construction items are placed on a similar building).

    I've given as much info as I can on what I suspect might be happening, and have linked this thread to make sure they have your in depth replication info, and I'll let people know if I hear anything more
    fujiwara @ en-1
    fujiwara @ us-1

  • Wiglema (NL1)Wiglema (NL1) Beiträge: 406NL1
    Thanks for the feedback @BM Fujiwara.

    Indeed it will eventually resolve itself in a few years' time, when all granaries and build items are at max level...

    As it only has a negative side for the players and no negative financial effect for GGS, I would not have expected anything higher than low priority.
    From my point of view, it does harm GGS's credibility. How can we trust that other calculations are done correctly? Anyway, GGS's credibility is already at an all-time low level, IMHO.
    Wiglema (NL1)
  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    Sorry for the long delay, I wanted to make sure the conversation with the QA team had finished before I posted any updates. This is confirmed as a bug, it's also been confirmed as a relatively low priority bug (because it mostly resolves itself apparently when further construction items are placed on a similar building).

    I've given as much info as I can on what I suspect might be happening, and have linked this thread to make sure they have your in depth replication info, and I'll let people know if I hear anything more
    Hello!
    Any update on this bug?
    It appears it is unsolvable lol.
    This bug has been haunting me since then sometime appears and disappears again!
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



  • BM FujiwaraBM Fujiwara Beiträge: 576
    Hiya, I'm afraid still no updates on it. I suspect it may be a long while too to be honest from what I've seen of the priorities. The "workaround" at the moment I guess is simply to reassign construction items after a bunch of upgrades have been done (or eventually have them all at level 14 items I guess). I know it's not ideal, but now that it's been confirmed that it exists as an issue, the rest is likely to be a waiting game!
    fujiwara @ en-1
    fujiwara @ us-1

  • SyedKingdom (ASIA1)SyedKingdom (ASIA1) Beiträge: 24ASIA1
    Lol.
    Anyways thank you for raising this issue with the team tho.
    And sorry for my late response .
    Proud General Of Drunken Fist 
    Current level: 70 L.L 258 (16-2-19) 
    Base PP: 700K+ 

    Non-Ruby Player 
    That's all... ;)

    https://prnt.sc/ij4z4u
    https://prnt.sc/ij4zc1



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