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Update Aug 4th - The Market - Feedback and Questions

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  • Mouseslb (US1)Mouseslb (US1) US1 Posts: 62
    edited 24.08.2015
    Level? Mine never shows any and I work my buns off . Even carts don't seem to move ? Do I have a glitch?
    FarmerHoneybowm @ us 1
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 24.08.2015
    Griffith wrote: »
    and that is just an example for "value" inefficiency that exist atm. regarding the 3+ item contracts, they just seem useless totally atm anyway.(at least the standard ones) so "unless" balance their requested quantity/ or make them give much better rate and different prizes than other contracts, then they will probably join oblivion forever.

    i don't agree with you in this point, the 3+ itens are the best ones to sell the high end products. (apple pie, honey cream and soap)

    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Theres a bug going on, i started to decline MOST of the lv4-5-6 standard contracts because they size, and my LIMITED 4-5-6 contratcs droped they value... they are conected or is a bug???
    PSICOLIX @ pt 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 24.08.2015
    PSICOLIX12 wrote: »
    i don't agree with you in this point, the 3+ itens are the best ones to sell the high end products. (apple pie, honey cream and soap)

    _____________________________________________________________________________

    Theres a bug going on, i started to decline MOST of the lv4-5-6 standard contracts because they size, and my LIMITED 4-5-6 contratcs droped they value... they are conected or is a bug???

    the best contracts for selling the mentioned items are 2 and 3 item contracts which are much easier to keep at a 20-40 value even, not 4-5-6 item contracts which cause great loss if try to increase their value above 10 even and if not increase their value then 5% bonus is not sth worth at all, since they have too high frequency to ask for high quantity of "needed" materials(such as crops), or "useless items" such as low profit flower shop items.
    in other words, if you decline them alot you will face value penalty hence not being able to go above even 10 value that easily, and if you keep them to avoid that penalty, they will take longer time than 1-3 item contracts to fulfill(time bottleneck) + you may face opportunity loss alot too (due to donating needed/or useless items together with the good ones too)
    and what u asked is not a bug, limited and standard contracts are connected(value-wise). and that is exactly another reason why my reasoning in above paragraph holds true for those contracts being useless right now.
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 24.08.2015
    Griffith wrote: »
    the best contracts for selling the mentioned items are 2 and 3 item contracts which are much easier to keep at a 20-40 value even, not 6+ item contracts which cause great loss if try to increase their value above 10 even and if not increase their value then 5% bonus is not sth worth at all, since they have too high frequency to ask for high quantity of "needed" materials(such as crops), or "useless items" such as low profit flower shop items.

    in theory you are right, but don't actually work like that, let me try to explain...

    right now i have 2 contracts with huge amounts of apple (18k e 25K)
    and 1 contrat with a good amount of milk (12k) and another one with a good amount of egg(15k), they are all 2 itens contracts... and will take 1 day for me to complete they, i do consider they GOOD contracts.

    so i'm left with 2 spot to try e find contracts for apple pie, soups, honey cream... and i never got luck to come one asking for thoose, they mainly apear on the 4-5-6 contracts. and rarely... right now i have 1976 soaps in my inventory, thats a 2 days production... in the last 2 days i'm making more soap than i can sell... and i don't have the luck to get a 1-2 contracts for soups. they only apear in the 4-5-6.
    PSICOLIX @ pt 1
  • edited 24.08.2015
    david688 wrote: »
    I just had a contract that offered 2 karma points and 83618 dollars. It was level 5 offering a 12.44% bonus. So I assumed that I would get 12.44% more for selling via the contract. But

    445 Dandelions @ 12 per unit = 5340 dollars
    381 Cherries @ 225 per unit = 85725 dollars

    So selling normally I would have recieved 91065 dollars but the contract only gave me the 83618 dollars a loss of 7447 dollars and no bonus.

    Am I misunderstanding something? It does not seem correct to me. Can any one help please?

    Thanks

    David

    Contract Price $83,618 + 2 Karma Points

    445 Dandelions @ 12 per unit = 5,340 dollars
    381 Cherries @ 225 per unit = 85,725 dollars
    = $ 91,065

    Hi David,

    You said you had a dollar Loss of $ 7,447 But, you are getting 2 Karma Points AND a 12.44 % Bonus.

    Your Bonus would be 12.44% of the Contract Price of $83,618 = $10,402

    So your total cash from the sale would be $83,618 +$10,402 = $94,020

    Total Profit=Total Cash from Sale $94,020 - Farm Sales Price $ 91,065 = $ 2,955 + 2 Karma Points is your Total Profit

    So, still a nice Total Profit of $2,955 + the 2 Karma Points.

    I have verified that this is the way that the Bonus is figured on the Neighbors. In the Neighbors, the added % of Bonus is shown on their smile and then the amount will fly thru the air in addition to the neighbors initial offer. I have done the math calculations on the neighbors to double check and it is correct there.
    Scissors just told me where to find the amount of the Bonus on the contracts by placing my cursor over the number in the box. I haven't done the contracts yet looking for this, but I'm sure it's included and figured this way.

    **** CM's we really should have a way to see the amount of the Contract Bonus, please add it to our contract screens. Thank You

    Hope that helps David. Making my spreadsheets has really helped me learn how things work and see my profits! :)

    P.S. Yes, Scissors, now I will need to add another column and formula for the Contract Bonus to my spreadsheets LOL Thanks for your help! Maybe in about another week or 2, it will be ready to share with whoever wants it-just send me a PM if you're interested. I am using Microsoft Excel. :) I will try to write out some instructions too.



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  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 24.08.2015
    PSICOLIX12 wrote: »
    in theory you are right, but don't actually work like that, let me try to explain...

    right now i have 2 contracts with huge amounts of apple (18k e 25K)
    and 1 contrat with a good amount of milk (12k) and another one with a good amount of egg(15k), they are all 2 itens contracts... and will take 1 day for me to complete they, i do consider they GOOD contracts.

    so i'm left with 2 spot to try e find contracts for apple pie, soups, honey cream... and i never got luck to come one asking for thoose, they mainly apear on the 4-5-6 contracts. and rarely... right now i have 1976 soaps in my inventory, thats a 2 days production... in the last 2 days i'm making more soap than i can sell... and i don't have the luck to get a 1-2 contracts for soups. they only apear in the 4-5-6.

    I do understand your reasoning actually, but there is a total of 6 contracts available at a time only. if we had 12 available contract slots i would agree maybe with you. but atm you have to "choose" between either focusing on 1-3 item contracts, or, 4-6 item contracts if want to make a good profit+good rate of getting extra prizes daily.
    why?
    its too much a pain to explain more than what I already did in my last posts on this thread. so I will just friendly suggest you to choose the 1-3 items instead. since the loss(time bottleneck/or/opportunity loss) in focusing on 4-6 items is much higher.

    P.S. don't get me wrong I am not saying one should never ever do any 4+ item contracts. no. I am just saying it is bad choice to focus on them though. if once in a blue moon one or two "good" 4+ item contracts appeared(specially the limited ones) that one could do, then there is no harm in even doing them and getting 5% initial bonus anyway. but focusing on them and trying to raise their value above 10 even causes huge disadvantage.

    (specially since they do not give any much better of a prize than 1-3 item contracts + it is harder to raise their value + they ask for as crazy quantities of items as 1-3 item contracts too but for 4-6 items instead which makes them harder to do and since the penalty for decline is high or 1-1 rate atm then they also cause a bigger time-bottleneck than 1-3 item contracts too and bigger opportunity loss than 1-3 items too (as they can ask much more often for "needed materials" and "useless items" too))
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 24.08.2015
    Nafaru wrote: »
    Hey gavinfarms,

    we had your contracts checked quickly by our bug-analysts and they confirmed that everything is fine with your contracts. One contract type should still be at 99 while another one just reached 9.

    Your high level one should re-appear sooner or later. :)


    I have had a number of 99's. One of them (I made a note) was at 99. I filled it. It then re-appeared as a 9. I filled that. It then returned again at level 99. Is that how it is supposed to work? Does that mean that a contract, once it reaches 99, will bounce back up easily, rather than painfully work its way up?
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 24.08.2015
    Griffith wrote: »
    I do understand your reasoning actually, but there is a total of 6 contracts available at a time only. if we had 12 available contract slots i would agree maybe with you. but atm you have to "choose" between either focusing on 1-3 item contracts, or, 4-6 item contracts if want to make a good profit+good rate of getting extra prizes daily.
    why?
    its too much a pain to explain more than what I already did in my last posts on this thread. so I will just friendly suggest you to choose the 1-3 items instead. since the loss(time bottleneck/or/opportunity loss) in focusing on 4-6 items is much higher.

    P.S. don't get me wrong I am not saying one should never ever do any 4+ item contracts. no. I am just saying it is bad choice to focus on them though. if once in a blue moon one or two "good" 4+ item contracts appeared(specially the limited ones) that one could do, then there is no harm in even doing them and getting 5% initial bonus anyway. but focusing on them and trying to raise their value above 10 even causes huge disadvantage.

    AS a see now, i have ALL 1-2-3 contracts lv60, and i have 4-5-6 contracts lv20... i agree with you that they are harder to level up, and offer NO better prizes...

    The penalty is the main problem, i HAVE to reject 4-5-6 more. its a pain... i agree, but they are important TO ME.

    in a way the MAIN problem is the balance, the contracts ask for unbalanced amount of goods[i'm bein saying to fire them all since the farm candy update]. and the penalty to refuse the contract don't alow us to "FIX" the balancers mistake.


    GGD think we will start to SKIP time production with gold to complete the contracts, they are wrong. i will not spend gold, to speed up apple to complete one contract because if i reject i will downgrade it. no1 will...

    to me GGD has 2 options FIX the balance(very hard thing to do because every1 have diferent strategies) or remove the penalty....

    SUGESTIONS:

    1} make a new kind of currency in the game. name it {lawyer token}, and give us the option to skip the contract normaly by getting the penalty, or using 1 lawyer token to not get the penalty.
    Lawyer token can be earned by:
    1 Lawyer token for every 3 contracts we finish.
    And you can purchase they with gold

    2} Remove the penalty and Increase the wait time for rejected contrats, for 2 hours, that way will slow progress and GGS can make more money of palyers that skip the time.
    PSICOLIX @ pt 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 24.08.2015
    PSICOLIX12 wrote: »
    SUGESTIONS:

    1} make a new kind of currency in the game. name it {lawyer token}, and give us the option to skip the contract normaly by getting the penalty, or using 1 lawyer token to not get the penalty.
    Lawyer token can be earned by:
    1 Lawyer token for every 3 contracts we finish.
    And you can purchase they with gold

    2} Remove the penalty and Increase the wait time for rejected contrats, for 2 hours, that way will slow progress and GGS can make more money of palyers that skip the time.

    yea the balancers did a loose job i agree too. the interface itself is very well designed and it can balance the game and make it more fun in many ways if was more balanced itself though.

    and even though those are good suggestions too, but i personally have different suggestions:

    1- decrease the penalty rate to -1 but increase the bonus rate after doing contract to +5
    2- define a priority in quantities for contracts: lower quantities of contracts based on their "number of items", meaning 1 item contracts asking for highest amounts(but less than how they are now) while 6 item contracts asking for least amount.
    3- balance the rate of "extra prizes" meaning that higher value contracts give more, and higher item contracts giving more too.
    4- raise number of contract slots to 12 instead of 6 but increase the time-penalty instead.
    5- remove xp bonus or make it more reasonable(cost-wise and quantity-wise). and make other prizes aside fro karma,xp and horseshoe, (deco parts and gold) at least "appear" sometimes for frog-sake, and not once in a blue moon only.
    6- change the formula for "value bonus %" a bit, so that it doesn't become super useless after like 40 value.
    7- no lunch for your balancers for 2 days. (jk) ;)

    (and while you are at it:
    8- increase amount of milk from goat stables too or make gourmet machines too.
    9- balance increase happiness/per upgrade level of dog house, so that it doesn't be at max 75 anymore and be around approx 120 at lvl 7, and then if wanted add another gold level for it up to approx 135 happiness too )
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • Kamilcom (GB1)Kamilcom (GB1) Posts: 1,499
    edited 24.08.2015
    I left the "opportunity costs" debate for now as it is a huge market killer and everybody needs to find their own way around it for now. I fixed a simple few points guideline for my own use to make the OM operation smple, fast and loss risk free. Might spell it out later when I have time. But it's provisionary anyway, just to have something reliable and workable before I have time to plunge into further analysis. As otherwise it was nearly driving me mad. :)


    Indipendance of individual contracts:

    Nafaru, Latten !! :)

    can you confirm if all 12 contract types are completelly independent of each other in terms of up/downgrade?

    Or do Standard and limited contracts with the same number of items (S1 + L1, S2 + L2 etc.) work in pairs together as one unit?

    And have your guys look at that anyway as cross influence between contract types has been suspected to happen somehow.
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 25.08.2015
    There were some complaints in the past about communication. I hate to pile on, but when post 924 is the first one in five days......I think this is where those complaints come from. There were so many questions over those 5 days that could have been answered. My question was not really answered. And the questions about the neighbors or the vendor weren't answered. Please answer more of the questions people ask. Some of the questions that I have, are being asked by other people, so I don't re-submit them. I simply wait for the other people to be answered.

    Am I supposed to keep paying the vendor 150k for chicken feed, in the hopes of something great? (Yes or no) And, is he supposed to be only active once per day?
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • Dara (SKN1)Dara (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 2,638
    edited 25.08.2015
    Am I supposed to keep paying the vendor 150k for chicken feed, in the hopes of something great? (Yes or no) And, is he supposed to be only active once per day?

    I was wondering the same. I have seen his offer only twice, one chicken food and on pig food. So i'm waiting and waiting his offers, and of course something better than pig food... ;)


  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 25.08.2015
    Since my other question must have been misunderstood, let me ask it another way. If I have a value 99 contract and I fill it, what should happen next?
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 25.08.2015
    I continue to do BV99's that are dark purple, and they then show up as lower values the next time. If there is a light purple as the help button suggests, it is not at all clear how to ever achieve that.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 25.08.2015
    with 12 apple orchars, i'm now oficially complain that the market is asking for too much apples... need a FIX ASAP. half the amount of is bein asked right now would be OK.
    PSICOLIX @ pt 1
  • rocnrobn (US1)rocnrobn (US1) US1 Posts: 259
    edited 25.08.2015
    To the Vendor question, I think it is like a lottery or raffle ticket. You pay x amount of dollars for a chance at a great reward. And we all know how that works out.
    rocnrobn @ us 1
  • Bill4112 (US1)Bill4112 (US1) US1 Posts: 72
    edited 25.08.2015
    Thank you for the information. It makes a huge difference in my opinion of the Organic Market feature of the game. You are correct that I had not read many of the preceding posts, but with so many pages of posts available, it requires many hours to read all of them. (I've only read the first 36 pages so far.) I notice that there has been a call for a compendium of the information that has been learned so far. If such a compendium has not already been created, I heartily recommend that it be done.
    Bill4112 @ us 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 25.08.2015
    Bill41122 wrote: »
    Thank you for the information. It makes a huge difference in my opinion of the Organic Market feature of the game. You are correct that I had not read many of the preceding posts, but with so many pages of posts available, it requires many hours to read all of them. (I've only read the first 36 pages so far.) I notice that there has been a call for a compendium of the information that has been learned so far. If such a compendium has not already been created, I heartily recommend that it be done.


    Larino has added some of the information to that site. It may be a better primer for a very basic intro to the market.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • erryka (AU1)erryka (AU1) AU1 Posts: 132
    edited 25.08.2015
    Kamilcom wrote: »
    3 gold ? ? ? And that even once in a blue moon? :thumbdown: Not a strong incentive. :)

    How much did it cost in dollars? Can you find out for us? :)

    Quite pricey. Total of 2 gold with the bonus.

    2r23h37.jpg

    2s17h5h.jpg

    erryka @ AU1 Only Way Co-op
    JoDee9 @ WWW1 Larino Co-op

  • Yakoska (US1)Yakoska (US1) Posts: 1,631
    edited 25.08.2015
    erryka2 wrote: »
    Quite pricey. Total of 2 gold with the bonus.

    2r23h37.jpg

    2s17h5h.jpg

    Just the fact that GGS is allowing you to get gold in exchange for dollars... is a wondrous thing.

    -Y
    Yakoska @ us 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 26.08.2015
    I have not ever seen gold. I have done over a dozen 99's and seen nothing beyond. I just did another 99 and watched it go back to zero. I tried to ask if that is supposed to happen, but to no answer.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 26.08.2015
    it is a limited contract, those ones always give small bonus(aside from karma maybe), but i guess we can expect even 50-100 gold from standard high quantity contracts then which isn't too bad, but not if appears once every kepler planet discoveries though.
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • Yakoska (US1)Yakoska (US1) Posts: 1,631
    edited 26.08.2015
    Earlier I mentioned all my contracts had apples, and that I was happy with that. Unfortunately, my latest contract is for 5,000 Cabbage. Give me back my 24k apple contracts!

    -Y
    Yakoska @ us 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 26.08.2015
    GGS has left us in despair on this thread, I am starting to think we should start some BBQ here on market thread instead of giving more feedback honestly, we're on our own it seems 8)
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 26.08.2015
    I have done another 99 just in the last couple of hours and it has come back as a 22. I have 3 99's on my screen presently and none of them have a bonus. This cannot possibly be what they intended. Currently, the fewer I decline, the worse I do. You might not think that would be the case, but it is.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • Yakoska (US1)Yakoska (US1) Posts: 1,631
    edited 26.08.2015
    99s for which type of contract?

    -Y
    Yakoska @ us 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 26.08.2015
    gold sighted in my market too finally. only after reached purple range though.

    10xdddu.jpg

    as you can see it's little gold only though but also very easy and limited contract too.

    P.S. I still haven't seen "deco parts" as prize though. ;(

    P.S.2 @ Gavin: I think honestly there might be sth wrong either with the market after lvl 99 atm (as supposedly there should be another color also which doesn't exist it seems atm) or there may be sth wrong with your market honestly but i can't confirm that yet till i reach 99 too. either way I think it is a good idea to clear your browser cache + flash player cache once too and then decline all contracts once after loaded the game to see what if that may fix the issue.

    P.S.3. another possibility is :

    "deco parts prize" not appearing anymore
    +
    second market update
    +
    99 value bug
    +
    light purple color contracts not appearing

    all be connected to same issue. and GGS may be fixing that right now who knows.

    P.S.4...(nothing... just wanted to contribute a little to PS4 too ;) )
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 26.08.2015
    Gold cost is $1000.... cheaper than karma($5000) and XP($6000).
    PSICOLIX @ pt 1
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 26.08.2015
    PSICOLIX12 wrote: »
    Gold cost is $1000.... cheaper than karma($5000) and XP($6000).

    it makes sense for gold to cost less than karma imo.
    but xp is too overpriced yep.
    Griffith @ WWW 1
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 26.08.2015
    Yakoska wrote: »
    99s for which type of contract?

    -Y

    Some standard and some limited.

    Including:
    Boarding school
    tree nursery
    beach hotel
    carnival
    harbor birthday
    breeder's school
    zoo
    holiday resort
    national park

    and others....


    boarding school and tree nursery have been to 99 twice

    Also, I find it weird that I almost never see a reward of any type. Early in the market, I saw them all the time. Of the six contracts on my screen, none has a reward, and that is almost always the case. This can't possibly what was intended. Could it be that when they took away some of the flower shop products, they cut the reward frequency, or perhaps it is just happening to me?

    Edit:

    I just finished Zoo at "99". It was the infamous 14,000 apple turnovers. Zoo then came back 30 minutes later as an "8".

    Edit by PINJO: merged posts, please use edit button
    gavinfarms @ us 1
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