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Update - April 14th - Mission rework - Discussion

1414

Comments

  • DeAnna777 (US1)DeAnna777 (US1) Posts: 148
    edited 09.04.2014
    Yes I do have a large farm and I do buy gold more than I should. I know it supports the game because in order to play the game the people at GGS need to be paid just like you or me when we go to work. Nobody works for free. I am just pointing out that I think that gold should not be used in missions. It is also not just the lower level farmers who are using gold actually it is the higher level farmers who use it. Are you going to tell me that someone who is playing a mission should be allowed to blow others out of the water. I seen it where they go up to 30,000 or more higher than others...is this really fair to do? I think that when people do this they don't really give others a fair shot at winning a mission. This is why I think it is cheating...if people want to spend their gold that is up to them and more power to them...but why do it when their are players who can't afford to buy gold or chose not to in fairness...by the way there are a lot of players who consider it cheating. Also I do have a right to voice my opinion about the subject so don't assume that people are non gold buyers because they think it is not fair to others to use it during missions.


    The game is designed to make money, so you really expect them to do away with gold purchases that pays the bills so folks who don't want to buy gold don't have to in order to be competitive in missions? If they separate out the missions by whether you can use gold or not, then the strategic element of surprise by the use of gold is gone...and that is what gives a player an advantage and at the same time pays the bills by offering that advantage. If folks don't want to buy gold and someone uses gold to win, then they got what they paid for and the others got what they choose not to pay for...seems fair enough to me. See the thing is, when i come into a free to play game i am well aware the game will be geared to offer perks and advantages for those who buy gold...i know this going in so it's no shock when certain aspects of the game play promotes the use of gold. If i can't afford or refuse to pay a few bucks a month and dislike what playing for free offers, then i simply don't play the game...not demand more equality to those who spend money to buy gold.
  • nig4x4nig4x4 Posts: 58
    edited 09.04.2014
    I'll, as ever, hold judgement until the update is implemented and I've had a chance to try it out, but it initially looks like it will be an improvement, certainly for lower levels. I play the missions to increase my income, regardless of winning, so have always attempted to match the mission with my production and process requirements. To that end I'll just have to see how the new system works out.
  • momoma (GB1)momoma (GB1) Posts: 29
    edited 09.04.2014
    I'm willing to pay even 1000 gold just to participate in a fair mission but I'm gonna never never spend gold just to beat someone! The system is wrong and stimulates unfairness!
  • woepsawoepsa Posts: 26
    edited 09.04.2014
    Missions have never been my thing because of the obvious reason, but this looks like an elegant solution to make the playing field more level. I will certainly give it a try!
    I've hardly any mission experience, but what Rusty proposes in post #73 sounds very good.


    Question: Will the bakery harvest bug/no sell option issue be fixed? I didn't read anything about it.
  • BobFighter8342BobFighter8342 Posts: 21
    edited 09.04.2014
    jatoda wrote: »
    No matter how much you change the missions, if you are up against someone who uses gold you will never win. I don't think it is cheating, but you should not be in the same mission as someone who doesn't use or buy gold. Some of us don't have very deep pockets. Then there are some who don't buy gold at all. There should be a button or something, that separates the gold missions. Block gold use and gold use. That seems like it would really make it competitive for the gold users, and more fair for the non gold users.

    Not gonna work. Never gonna happen.

    I don't buy gold. I do use gold. There's a difference. If I wanted to spend gold in a mission, I could and while I prefer more permanent features, spending a bit of gold if it's going to help in a mission is my choice and it should be a choice I'm allowed to make.

    So you can't separate people into "buyers" and "non-buyers". I doubt they'd want to make a function that completely stops you from spending gold on anything (and it would have to be "on anything" or else it wouldn't work - I can buy dollars with gold, milk with dollars and then sell them for a nice easy boost) - it would probably be hard to code, help very little and even lose them income.

    Let's face it: gold = advantage, as with any premium currency in any F2P game. That's not a bad thing. Generally, you're unlikely to get put in a mission with 9 massive gold users - and most of these users have to be either stupid or have tons of gold, since there are plenty of other things to use gold on (heck, even a level 7 dog is probably better than extra reputation points).


    Oh, and one other thing I'd like to say: achievements. We need some directly relating to the gourmet and flower farms and one for reputation points or missions in some form would be nice. It's fine to have some for pigs, but most high levels have (mostly or fully) gotten rid of pigs and we really should have some for the things that give us the real profit margins.
  • GeorgenollieUseGeorgenollieUse Posts: 1,801
    edited 09.04.2014
    Generally, you're unlikely to get put in a mission with 9 massive gold users - and most of these users have to be either stupid or have tons of gold, since there are plenty of other things to use gold on (heck, even a level 7 dog is probably better than extra reputation points).

    I totally agree with you on this but there are people who want to be ranked #1 regardless of what they are competing for. I just checked the US server RP ranking and the #1 position has 14,130 points. They have 15 level 7 chicken coops and all their house are level 7 blue houses . . . so yes, they have used gold for an advantage to win missions EVEN if they are not using it in the actual mission. It happens more then you think it does - especially on the US server.
  • musicdoc2musicdoc2 Posts: 20
    edited 09.04.2014
    Then you know what #1 rank means. Not skill, not hard work, just money spent in the game. Farm and have fun, save the competitive spirit for something where the main skill isn't just clicking "buy".
  • BobFighter8342BobFighter8342 Posts: 21
    edited 09.04.2014
    They have 15 level 7 chicken coops and all their house are level 7 blue houses . . . so yes, they have used gold for an advantage to win missions EVEN if they are not using it in the actual mission.

    Okay, yes, fair point - and it also means that I'm technically taking advantage of gold features every time I use stables/orchards on my main farm in a mission, since I have a level 1 water tower. But you have to wonder how much the level 7 houses are helping them if they're in a mission involving wildflowers: sure, it's better than normal houses, but not helpful with wildflowers when they've got dozens of apple orchards and only a couple of fields.

    But at least in this game there's no way (that I can think of) to hurt, harm or destroy players on a large scale - sure, you might lose a few reputation points, dollars and XP since someone ranked ahead of you (and there's the "naughty or nice" feature although I've never heard of anyone use it).
  • pirypiry Posts: 39
    edited 09.04.2014
    Is this true at all? Collectables on gourmet farm? Thanks.
  • gizmo22 (AU1)gizmo22 (AU1) AU1 Posts: 1,720
    edited 09.04.2014
    I agree with Bonnie, to make things fair no gold at all can be used in missions. The high level players will still be grouped together and can compete strategically without it. There was a push for missions to be sorted into two categories, gold and non-gold but GGS seemed to have completely ignored this even though it was plastered on forums and in polls for months on end.

    While I wont use the word "cheating" because gold skipping is within the rules, gold skipping to me is like bribing the umpire/ref in a sports match....the biggest bribe (person willing to spend the most gold) wins and I think this is the main problem with missions. To make it worse the gold spent isn't even worth it, a few rep points, some xp, and a measly amount of dollars?? Come on! lol. Surely there's enough things out there to spend gold on to keep GGS afloat, it shouldn't be used in missions buy hey, that just my opinion :p
  • GeorgenollieUseGeorgenollieUse Posts: 1,801
    edited 10.04.2014
    gizmo222 wrote: »
    I agree with Bonnie, to make things fair no gold at all can be used in missions. The high level players will still be grouped together and can compete strategically without it. There was a push for missions to be sorted into two categories, gold and non-gold but GGS seemed to have completely ignored this even though it was plastered on forums and in polls for months on end.

    I don't think GGS ignored it - I think they realized from a programming point of view what a major headache that would cause turning off the gold use for missions (especially the longer missions that took hours) - even people who don't use gold in missions due to principle still use gold in other ways throughout their play. And this was their answer on the best way to sort the gold users from the non gold users without having all the technical stuff they would have to do to implement temporary gold usage blockages. Given the situation, I really think this was the easiest and best way to fix this particular issue. And really from a business stand point, would you really want to block any of your clients from having access to the item that brings in most of your income even temporarily?
  • gizmo22 (AU1)gizmo22 (AU1) AU1 Posts: 1,720
    edited 10.04.2014
    Your points make sense but if anything the shortened mission times may promote gold skipping even more than before. There's no efficient way of preparing for missions beforehand because you wont even know what it actually is until it starts and since its only 30 minutes in length it may lead to a splurge of gold use even among players that haven't used much gold in the past. What can you even harvest or collect in 30 minutes unless you avoid special seeds completely and just harvest regular seeds during that time.

    Gold users could easily throw a few missions just to end up in the easier bracket of players and then bully them with the gold skip strategy. Its too early to claim doom and gloom until we see the missions running after the update but from the info given to us so far this revamp will do very little to make missions fair.
  • FarmerVadaFarmerVada Posts: 13
    edited 10.04.2014
    I thing that there should be Missions that , player who can't buy gold coin can play against each other.When I first started playing this game I didn't know that gold coins was so importent, untill I had been playing for awhile. Gold coins can buy the best decoration and can make you finish your farm and land faster.
  • BonebatboyBonebatboy Posts: 14
    edited 10.04.2014
    gizmo222 wrote: »
    Your points make sense but if anything the shortened mission times may promote gold skipping even more than before. There's no efficient way of preparing for missions beforehand because you wont even know what it actually is until it starts and since its only 30 minutes in length it may lead to a splurge of gold use even among players that haven't used much gold in the past. What can you even harvest or collect in 30 minutes unless you avoid special seeds completely and just harvest regular seeds during that time.

    Gold users could easily throw a few missions just to end up in the easier bracket of players and then bully them with the gold skip strategy. Its too early to claim doom and gloom until we see the missions running after the update but from the info given to us so far this revamp will do very little to make missions fair.

    gizmo222 makes a very good point here. Certain players, like me, are un-able to buy gold due to ages, real-life situations, and parental advice. I'm a weaker farmer, level 42, and I really don't feel like getting pummeled by level 80+ gold buyers who can just skip field production and grow mass amounts of special seeds. The fairer missions for that situation would be dung collection, but even then gold buyers can just skip cattle stables and blow past everyone in the mission ranks.

    I've also got some tips for people doing these missions:

    Keep all fields empty and ready: Make sure you are not upgrading a field unless you are okay with just doing a mission for fun. If you need corn for your farm, you can have special corn seeds ready to harvest at the start of a mission. If you're lucky, it will be a Collect Corn mission, but you would still benefit from collecting. This could also be done with wildflowers.
    Be very active: You aren't going to get very far if you just do other stuff while your mission is running and come back every 15 minutes or so. (Unless eggs of course.)
    Play missions for fun: You don't always have to get first place, and sometimes you just can't. You won't lose anything from coming in last, and you still gain. Don't stress or freak out about getting passed by a gold buyer. Big Farm is just for fun, you don't need to kill yourself coming in first or complain about "cheating" players.
  • CM NafaruCM Nafaru Posts: 1,325
    edited 10.04.2014
    woepsa wrote: »
    Question: Will the bakery harvest bug/no sell option issue be fixed? I didn't read anything about it.

    By the time we published those patchnotes, it was not sure if we could fix that bug.
    But from what I heard from the devs, it should be fixed with the next update. Fingers crossed. :)
    piry wrote: »
    Is this true at all? Collectables on gourmet farm? Thanks.

    Not yet.
    But it could happen sooner or later. :)
  • Calandiva (SKN1)Calandiva (SKN1) Posts: 16
    edited 10.04.2014
    Come on – get real!

    A game like this cost a lot of money: staff, keeping the servers up and running etc. etc.

    GGS can only get the money for this from one source: paying customers.

    Either GGS give paying customers advantages over non-paying customers (very few people want to pay real money for nothing) or they make the game Pay-to-Play for EVERYONE.

    Try to be just a little grateful that you are allowed to play this game totally for FREE if that’s what you want instead of complaining about the advantages given to paying customers!
  • nig4x4nig4x4 Posts: 58
    edited 10.04.2014
    Folks, there is no way that GGS can separate gold from none gold buyers/users in missions (very good explanations can be found earlier in this thread). From the official description I think GGS have arrived at a good solution to the current problem which isn't gold usage, it is the "loophole" in the missions system which allow the like of myself lvl 80+ and others to compete every mission against low lvl players (I'm not going into detail as I do not wish to make things worse even though it will be changed shortly). The new system will hopefully prevent that happening in future, so that for the most part you will be pitted against player of similar ability (which is how it is supposed to work now but doesn't). These changes will require different stratagems to what we all use now, but the fun's to be had working them out. let's just give it a go and see how we like it.

    These changes are starting to make sense of some of the Gormless Farm upgrades now!
  • jim 33jim 33 Posts: 26
    edited 10.04.2014
    The certificates to buy boosters seem like a good idea to me. A way to get boosters without gold. Unfortunately for me, I cant stand the missions:( But it might be a little easier to force myself to do some with the incentives. Overall a good idea for the game I think.
  • EricaJ (US1)EricaJ (US1) Posts: 202
    edited 10.04.2014
    gizmo222 wrote: »
    Your points make sense but if anything the shortened mission times may promote gold skipping even more than before. There's no efficient way of preparing for missions beforehand because you wont even know what it actually is until it starts and since its only 30 minutes in length it may lead to a splurge of gold use even among players that haven't used much gold in the past. What can you even harvest or collect in 30 minutes unless you avoid special seeds completely and just harvest regular seeds during that time.

    I expect a lot of people will still prepare by having things ready to harvest. For fields, they could go full-on corn or wildflowers, or some of each, and would probably end up in the mission they wanted at least some of the time.
    Gold users could easily throw a few missions just to end up in the easier bracket of players and then bully them with the gold skip strategy. Its too early to claim doom and gloom until we see the missions running after the update but from the info given to us so far this revamp will do very little to make missions fair.

    The real beauty of the new system is that players won't be able to dump RPs anymore. With the existing system, it's easy to dump RPs by signing up and then bailing out of missions. It looks to me like the only way to get rid of RPs in the new system is by the passage of time (10% weekly). Once you win them, you're stuck with them, and will be matched with others who have also won a lot of RPs.

    So - yes, a player might initially gold-skip their way to some easy mission wins, but that will mean they will be sorted with more competitive players going forward.
  • jonastrajonastra Posts: 37
    edited 10.04.2014
    Great! Especially the price changes in the bakery are very good! I'm very excited to the new missions :thumbsup:. All seems fantastic to me :D !!!
  • Ala123Ala123 Posts: 52
    edited 10.04.2014
    Can't imagine ever using the Gourmet SILO @ 1XP when the Main is 6XP !
  • GeorgenollieUseGeorgenollieUse Posts: 1,801
    edited 10.04.2014
    Ala123 wrote: »
    Can't imagine ever using the Gourmet SILO @ 1XP when the Main is 6XP !

    When you have a task that needs fertilizer started - they both count even if the task is on the main farm so you finish in half the time. Same thing with co-op project Native Wildlife. Sometimes it is not all about the XP you get. :)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 10.04.2014
    About the bakery: even with the new prices and lower running costs, you still can't earn a lot of money with the bakery. The cost of ingredients is still very high. It's nothing compared to the restaurant.
    Can't you do anything about that?
  • GeorgenollieUseGeorgenollieUse Posts: 1,801
    edited 10.04.2014
    elisa742 wrote: »
    About the bakery: even with the new prices and lower running costs, you still can't earn a lot of money with the bakery. The cost of ingredients is still very high. It's nothing compared to the restaurant.
    Can't you do anything about that?

    I believe (since I am not the developers I don't know for sure) their attempt with the pricing of the bakery goods has always been to bring very little profit in until your co-op does research to bring up the profits. Their initial attempt at pricing low was an epic failure so these new figures help show some profit regardless of your co-op status but the higher profits are dependent about research. It is theirway of encouraging co-op participation.
  • Madilin9Madilin9 Posts: 25
    edited 10.04.2014
    Are the bug fixes happening on the 14th also? Because my goats and donkeys and mill turning or water are not showing at all.
  • DeAnna777 (US1)DeAnna777 (US1) Posts: 148
    edited 10.04.2014
    EricaJ wrote: »
    I expect a lot of people will still prepare by having things ready to harvest. For fields, they could go full-on corn or wildflowers, or some of each, and would probably end up in the mission they wanted at least some of the time.



    The real beauty of the new system is that players won't be able to dump RPs anymore. With the existing system, it's easy to dump RPs by signing up and then bailing out of missions. It looks to me like the only way to get rid of RPs in the new system is by the passage of time (10% weekly). Once you win them, you're stuck with them, and will be matched with others who have also won a lot of RPs.

    So - yes, a player might initially gold-skip their way to some easy mission wins, but that will mean they will be sorted with more competitive players going forward.

    Excellent points Erica...the more i think about it the better i think this will all work out and these missions will actually be fun given these changes. One of the reasons why at this point i am not interested in a coop is because i am not a competitive person or care about rankings and i know as soon as i join one my gameplay will be all about rankings to better the coop. Nothing wrong with that, but i am more of a person who enjoys easy going gameplay and fixing up my farm ...but i might start doing missions once the changes go into effect:thumbsup:
  • george3 (AU1)george3 (AU1) AU1 Posts: 411
    edited 10.04.2014
    Emm62 wrote: »
    Wow, I haven't done one yet with a "negotiated settlement" with any of the other co-ops. You must be special George :)
    No Emm, just lucky to have Undertaker & Mouse House, he started it & as it helped both co-op's complete the project quicker, why not ??.
    It only ever worked with sell missions (corn or eggs), but days gone by now.
    Congratulations on 20th rank I see you passed me. haha
    George
    When you have a task that needs fertilizer started - they both count even if the task is on the main farm so you finish in half the time. Same thing with co-op project Native Wildlife. Sometimes it is not all about the XP you get. :)
    I agree Georgenollie, that's the only time I'll use the Gourmet Silo, it's not the xp so much, but the time it takes to produce, Level 3 makes 200 (20) in 28:00 hours, level 4 makes 300 (30) in 34:30 hours, so other then doing Native Wildlife project, it's really not much use.
    I haven't worried about building a composer yet, it looks like it maybe in the same boat, so spend $$ on upgrading gardens & sheds ect.
    We'll just have wait for the upgrade & see how it looks. :?:


    Post edited by Kat Nip: Merged posts, please use the edit button
  • a_treasurea_treasure Posts: 9
    edited 11.04.2014
    I think the new missions sound great..if it all comes out like said !!

    I still have a problem with the gourmet..yes prices were adjusted in cost to produce.vs selling to make a profit..
    BUT....you still need a tonne of ingredients
    ..If you compare the price of selling them...to what you would make from cooking something..
    you are in the whole..not by a little..but alot

    PS....BE NICE IF SOMEONE ANSWERED...IVE SAID MANY TIMES NEVER GET A RESPONSE BACK !!
    THANKS
  • Yowie2Yowie2 Posts: 4
    edited 12.04.2014
    I believe (since I am not the developers I don't know for sure) their attempt with the pricing of the bakery goods has always been to bring very little profit in until your co-op does research to bring up the profits. Their initial attempt at pricing low was an epic failure so these new figures help show some profit regardless of your co-op status but the higher profits are dependent about research. It is theirway of encouraging co-op participation.

    I'm not up to building the GF yet but from what I have read in all the forum threads it really doesn't seem worth the effort for me. It also seems that not only is GGS restricting non gold users it seems that they are penalizing players who don't wish to be part of a co-op also because they cant research the upgrades for the bakery.

    How does this make good business sense? Can someone please explain GGS reasoning to me in plain simple english?
  • lois larner (AU1)lois larner (AU1) Posts: 198
    edited 12.04.2014
    its simple...they want everyone doing the same thing....playing the same way....
    perhaps they should have just given us a template of how they want our farms to look....because if u think for yourself and play for yourself u get penalized...
    they want u in a co op...but if only play 1 hour a day and have no gold the co ops will soon kick u out....they now are going to be penalizing those that dont do missions.... but they were never available at a user friendly time in Australia for me to have a go at...regardless of how many requests we made....
    it seems that the only way to make money on the former gourmet farm is to be in co op and research....that counts me out as i am in co op but have no gold left and refuse to buy any as it gets accidentally lost to easily...i play on a lap top.....so as there are only 3 of us u can only do 1 research before the need to use gold...
    if u have been playing over a year the main farm has been fully developed so people started to change there farms to mass production..... now they want to put a stop to that....
    they wont give us a 4th farm as we have so many decos in drop box that we wouldn't need to buy any...
    thats the real reason they have made 2nd farm much less profitable...so that we cant have a mass production farm...
    i used to play this game many hours a day.....now they have made it less enjoyable so i dont play much...as i cant make enough money to finish the Gourmet money pit farm so i will just have it as a zoo and feed animals
    if i can ever make enough feed for them....my poor goats had so much feed before but now they get feed every 3rd day now...
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