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Update 18.03. - Happiness achieved

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Comments

  • MoonlimeMoonlime Posts: 116
    edited 20.03.2014
    if players decide to don't keep decorations in farms is their problem and i don't think that this new update will make them change their minds , because that is their game strategy even why its not a good one , i mean that is their choice and others don't have why to 'suffer' for it ....

    Well spoken. I'm looking to cut down on games. I'm going to add this game to the "might cut" pile now.
  • Vlasta-k2Vlasta-k2 Posts: 15
    edited 20.03.2014
    GGS you made a big mistake with this unimportant upgrading. Why did you bothered with our happiness?
    So what if someone didn't have any decoration,they paid full price with producing after all.
    Our co-op started to losing members now and this is all your fault.
    Don't be so greedy!
  • JeffCivJeffCiv Posts: 2
    edited 20.03.2014
    Lots of screaming kids in the house now. Thanks GGS.

    The money spigot is now turned off, no matter how many 200% offers come up. 8 people paying (my) $$$ will now go to another family oriented game to play.

    Although it has been an earful from some of my kids, this ends now, and I count ourselves fortunate that we are less than 2 months into this game, and did not start it last summer or a year ago and waste quadruple digits in cash. Three digits, and its a learning lesson for getting into another German-based game. Its a different mindset in Germany. I have a Masters in game design from KTH Stockolm (Royal Institute of Technology, Sweden), and know something about various culture mindsets, especially European and American, in gaming and micro charge business models. Visit the slow-moving train wreck of a (formerly in the 2007-2011 time frame) very good German game called game name removed as they have destroyed a very good game making the same mistakes GGS company has done recently.

    Its seems a fairly predictable and consistent Cultural mindset peculiar to Germanic game/management philosophy that takes what promises or proves to be a great game concept and snatches defeat from the Jaws of Victory. By that, I mean players that want to play, who pay for premium/gold (often not only for themselves, but for a baggage train of kids and others), are driven from the game and find new ones.

    The kids liked this Farm game, so we went along with them. I cringed, having examined how this company operates. But games are for fun, and kids often get their way (at first). However, it did take me by surprise how rapidly GGS imploded this BigFarm game in the few weeks we have been playing it. True, the Kids do not really notice some of it. But then, neither do they pay the piles of money for it. I do. Until now.

    They can continue to play BigFarm (though I'm hoping we can all just simply stop now), but we will not bring anyone new to it, nor buy more "gold". I'm hoping we can get our community of Adults and Kids switched to another non-Shooter 'decent' game in the next few weeks.



    No hard feelings to BigGame. But you all really blew it. I'm actually thankful that you at GGS were so over-the-top outrageously out of your minds, in Stomping on us. If you had done it slowly, bit by bit, it would have been much more difficult to put an end to this, and we all would be much deeper into it by the summer, and much harder to walk away from.

    The Emperor Has No Clothes: You at GGS might think you are just running (and messing up) a game concept/company. But there are those in the industry who actually are cheering that you continue. They compete for the dollars of gamers, and like it when competitors screw up and that money pool becomes available. But I'm writing this as a consumer, not a designer or marketer or executive.


    BigFarm will limp along. Whatever the future holds for it, two things are certain. No money from me, my family, friends, nor industry coworkers. And no new kids (or adults) will be coming in with our recommendations or influence. Most current players I know IRL will not in fact never even post, and BigFarm will never reach the potential it could have. Many of your current customers, and even some of my own kids may look at you and think you at GGS have nice Clothes, but sadly on the Big Farm.... the Emperor Has No Clothes.
  • edited 20.03.2014
    Kat Nip2 wrote: »
    Hey lucy, by participating, I mean if you are actively involved in the "boycott". If you make the decision not to purchase gold anymore, then so be it, that's your choice but when it becomes a group effort that is when you are participating.

    Hopefully that makes some sense to you. I think I need another coffee. :)

    Kat. Kittie_by_otomosc.gif

    You are going to need more than coffee. You can't stop people. It would be futile.
  • BriannospamGame (SKN1)BriannospamGame (SKN1) Posts: 1,803
    edited 20.03.2014
    Personal questions to Latten related to the thread :

    What is your overall perception of peoples attitudes to 18/3 update :
    1 Has the update been total successful?
    2 Has the update been a total failure ?
    3 Has the update been anything between 1 and 2 ?

    Sorry the first 2 seemingly stupid questions , but they are there because there are some who have expressed that they are pleased with the update.

    For my part , I can say that the part of the update that affects happiness , only touched my farms with a loss of less than 10% , as they all were between 10 and 80 % when the update came, so I can live with that, even I'm not happy with it.
    However, for reasons of principle , I am opposed to GGS more than a year after the game has started , suddenly start would dictate that people should have decorations on their farms.

    What bothers me far more than the change in happiness , it is unnecessary and same annoying and unsightly bonus indicator .
    If the bonus indicator is here to stay , I would very much like to know how I can get rid of my books again? (cabbage and wheat)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    goodmorning everyone:) I suppose this will be my last day in the forums too, lol... as i went here before my farm..sould be the other way around:)

    And Kat, i love your optimizm, and you are a great mod, but.. dont you think its more likely for people to use vouchers and go to the next game and continue if you call it codingissues rather than angry mob? :)

    After all, as we have seen here.. most players never visit the forums, and are probably only partly aware of whats going on.

    If you wake up then one morning with no clue from before, and cant log in but u have ur gold on a voucher to start a new game with a new salesline?...

    just saying that is also a very likely scenario:)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    Colt4542 wrote: »
    WOW, 65 pages!!! I just don't get it. I am at level 88 so I've been playing for awhile and I couldn't tell you what the happiness is on any of my farms. I try to keep it in the green, and sometimes when I get a new deco I will rearrange and try to get my happiness between 30 and 60 and if I can do that I'M HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY!!! Thanks for the entertainment, it's nice for some of you to come out of your parents basements, adjust your pocket protectors and then rip on GGS because they make $$ off of us playing this game. If they didn't make $$ they wouldn't be there and we wouldn't have a game to PLAY, yes PLAY. You know just like kids do outside, they PLAY GAMES like tag, ball or whatever. I wish the biggest thing I had to worry about was if my pretend farm was running at 80 or 90 or 99% happiness and not 100!!!! Thanks for the laughs : )

    You are very welcome:)
    We who feel ripped up are happy to make your day and we really feel excited that you can call us names and laugh at our situation.
    If you are happy with the update, great! Honestly, you are in your full right to be so:)
    If we feel ripped off, we have every reason to feel so too:)
    Thai may be a tough one, but.. are you really expecting everyone here now to toddle back to play happily because YOU think its no big deal?... People tend to react after their own heart ( thank goodness), but im sure some will come to you and ask ou what they are supposed to feel and mean:)

    And as far as growing up goes, lol.. i refuse to grow up, i never will grow up, I still have 4 kids and i am still a responsible person.

    Wish you a wonderful day , as i can promise you nonstop bellylaughs, if watching people feeling really bad about something is what gives u pleasure:)
  • FarmingGamerFarmingGamer Posts: 107
    edited 20.03.2014
    ladygrail wrote: »
    goodmorning everyone:) I suppose this will be my last day in the forums too

    :(:(:( We've just metX( not so soon,don't give upX(X(

    :rolleyes:Would love to see you here:love: don't let Griffith win rofl :D
  • gizmo22 (AU1)gizmo22 (AU1) AU1 Posts: 1,720
    edited 20.03.2014
    Hey Griffith

    You're probably wasting your time trying to reason with as you put it " an angry mob". Yes you have made some good points especially the one about approximately the same 100 people posting the same rants of negativity over and over again but by constantly trying to reason with them you are basically stuck doing the same thing and feeding the anger. For what its worth I'm not all that fussed over the update either and don't see the point in continuous ranting over a 6% drop in happiness (on my farm that is). The mass walkout hasn't happened so while many people are angry it hasn't turned out to be the doom and gloom many have predicted.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    There is one other thing that i find disturbing in games like this, and thats not just GGS.

    Any sort of organized behaviour by players, be it to withold buying gold, or anything affecting gameplay, tends to lead to people being banned.

    Gizmo and Griffith are right in the fact that not a lot of people that like the update write in this thread.

    I belive though, that that is not because they are afraid ( most of them). But because they simply do not see the point as they are.. well content with what is?
    And then they see no reason to post in here. They would still be doing themselves a favour tho, if they participated in the "GGS read this " poll, to evaluate exactly how any are for and how many are against.

    That poll is , if not perfect, so atleast a fair indicator. And per yesterday, with 247 voters, only 37 liked it.
    But again, atleast for myself.. You are safe in being happy with the change.. i will never make fun of you for that.

    If you feel it unpleasant that i may disagree with you tho? well thats not so bad is it? if we stay on topic and avoid too much personalized stuff.
  • Griffith (INT1)Griffith (INT1) Posts: 768
    edited 20.03.2014
    gizmo222 wrote: »
    Hey Griffith

    You're probably wasting your time trying to reason with as you put it " an angry mob". Yes you have made some good points especially the one about approximately the same 100 people posting the same rants of negativity over and over again but by constantly trying to reason with them you are basically stuck doing the same thing and feeding the anger. For what its worth I'm not all that fussed over the update either and don't see the point in continuous ranting over a 6% drop in happiness (on my farm that is). The mass walkout hasn't happened so while many people are angry it hasn't turned out to be the doom and gloom many have predicted.

    ty, but I'm not trying to convince anyone anymore, I'm just being voice of those who "pm" me instead of posting here due to angry mob's behavior because I want those voices to be heard too about this update, and I believe those who pm me still, already know that I will post screenshots of their pm with keeping their personal info hidden from this mob, and also ill continue to read through forum and if i see any false information being represented to ggs by this mob, ill also share my opinion about it so that both side's voices be heard by ggs, not just one side.
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 20.03.2014
    gizmo222 wrote: »
    For what its worth I'm not all that fussed over the update either and don't see the point in continuous ranting over a 6% drop in happiness (on my farm that is). The mass walkout hasn't happened so while many people are angry it hasn't turned out to be the doom and gloom many have predicted.

    I'm not upset about it either and quite frankly I am looking forward to the update to the gourmet farm. They are never going to be able please everyone all of the time.
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 20.03.2014
    ladygrail wrote: »
    There is one other thing that i find disturbing in games like this, and thats not just GGS.

    Any sort of organized behaviour by players, be it to withold buying gold, or anything affecting gameplay, tends to lead to people being banned.

    I also find this in any forums I have ever belonged to, not just gaming ones. It really isn't that uncommon. It causes drama and that is what most places try to avoid.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    maxiroy2 wrote: »
    I'm not upset about it either and quite frankly I am looking forward to the update to the gourmet farm. They are never going to be able please everyone all of the time.

    :) I am happy for you :) And i agree, there will never be a time when everyone is totally happy with anything at the same time :)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    maxiroy2 wrote: »
    I also find this in any forums I have ever belonged to, not just gaming ones. It really isn't that uncommon. It causes drama and that is what most places try to avoid.
    True, and in that respect its not so bad. But it also serves to keep information away from a lot of players, and thats the downside imo:)
  • Trippel (NL1)Trippel (NL1) Posts: 299
    edited 20.03.2014
    Colt4542 wrote: »
    I wish the biggest thing I had to worry about was if my pretend farm was running at 80 or 90 or 99% happiness and not 100!!!! Thanks for the laughs : )

    We know that you have bigger problems and i am really sorry.
  • Latten (DE1)Latten (DE1) Posts: 6,246
    edited 20.03.2014
    Latten,

    Could please stop diverting the question of happiness to the GF revamping. You are clearly avoiding the subject and trying to change it. I'm sorry buddy, but you may talk about the GF all you want, that's fine, but stop avoiding talking about the MAIN topic of this thread which is The Change in Happiness Formula in an attempt to make Mass Production Farmers to revert to what GGS deems to be the "way the game should be played".

    I hope you will not take this the wrong way and I am saying this with all due respect: But could you please stay on topic my friend and address it? You are OUR CM... OUR GO-TO Guy. We have no one else to ask the question to.
    At least say you don't know or whatever but please address the 1000 posts in here from ppl that do love this game but are furious about the latest change.

    I think GGS owes us a BIG explanation and unfortunately, you are the man on the front line making the bridge between high echelons of GGS and the player base.

    Have a good night,

    IO

    I promise, I don't try to divert attention here! I see it might look like I do though, and I for sure don't take what you're saying the wrong way :)
    I'll set up a pretty lengthy post later we posted in the German forums, plus we talked to game management to get an official, detailed statement about the latest changes and other topics you might be interested in, which will be coming soon, too. Please trust me when I say we really care about your reaction, and yes, of course you're right in that we surely don't know everything we'd like to know either. Doing what we can over here ^^
    Personal questions to Latten related to the thread :

    What is your overall perception of peoples attitudes to 18/3 update :
    1 Has the update been total successful?
    2 Has the update been a total failure ?
    3 Has the update been anything between 1 and 2 ?

    Sorry the first 2 seemingly stupid questions , but they are there because there are some who have expressed that they are pleased with the update.

    1 While it probably was a rather good change for the long run of the game, of course the update itself was far from successful - our forum staff was lacking information, some key points were missing and overall we should have been able to provide our fans with way more infos and examples before the update went live - this is one point we will work on immensely in the future.

    2 Again, for the game: No, probably not. For the community, for us and and for the trust we should share: Yup, pretty much :) We'll try to make up for it, and we're really sorry about this one.

    3 And now I see it was a 1, 2 or 3 question. Oh well :)

    On another note, I deleted (I hope) all posts regarding an openly posted PM - please guys, it's even in it's name: "personal messages". Don't post them or discuss them in the forums. Thanks :)
  • elunia13 (GB1)elunia13 (GB1) Posts: 162
    edited 20.03.2014
    ladygrail wrote: »
    They would still be doing themselves a favour tho, if they participated in the "GGS read this " poll, to evaluate exactly how any are for and how many are against.

    That poll is , if not perfect, so atleast a fair indicator. And per yesterday, with 247 voters, only 37 liked it.

    Where is this poll to be find, though, would somebody be kind enough to point me in the right direction?

    Many thanks! :-)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    On another note, I deleted (I hope) all posts regarding an openly posted PM - please guys, it's even in it's name: "personal messages". Don't post them or discuss them in the forums. Thanks

    No you did not get them all.. Referring to post 814, and 1114, could be more, but that poster is the only one to post actual PMs in here.

    The "pm" i wrote was never an actual pm
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    elunia13 wrote: »
    Where is this poll to be find, though, would somebody be kind enough to point me in the right direction?

    Many thanks! :-)

    you can find it in forums under the headline " suggestions, praise and critizism" :) thread name GGS read this:)
  • elunia13 (GB1)elunia13 (GB1) Posts: 162
    edited 20.03.2014
    thank you, ladygrail, had more coffee and found it! ;):)
  • neriux777neriux777 Posts: 161
    edited 20.03.2014
    Happines was changed because they did library - 1 research forewer. After happines will folow more changes, because library was wrong update, and inreversible. Soon they must change fields, productions and recipes. In this game to much dolars and to little you can get bonus from library. After half year game will be completely different. I'm sorry they remowing best parts of game economiks what I like moust. Well it's hard to leave something what you like, now you have a chance to try something new without going away :)
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    elunia13 wrote: »
    thank you, ladygrail, had more coffee and found it! ;):)
    ,

    you are most welcome:).. If you know ppl that do not use the forum normally, would you please pass on to them that that thread exists? As it is beneficial to the gamecommunity as whole if as many as possible.. both ppl for and against.. would make it visible:)

    And they dont have to type a word of reason to defend their opinion at all unless they want to:)
  • Latten (DE1)Latten (DE1) Posts: 6,246
    edited 20.03.2014
    Hey everyone,

    alright, let's try to figure all of this out for now. Again, I'd like to remind you to keep the discussion on topic and refrain from personal quips or insults - you've done great so far, and I'd love that to continue :)

    Also, we of course collect your feedback and criticism, and we will forward it to everyone responsible. We already talked to game management and we will get a (hopefully) lengthy official statement regarding a lot of things involved.

    First I think I should remind everyone that changes of formulas and game mechanics are a pretty common thing during the life of a web game. Sometimes balancing must be adjusted to keep the fairness and challenge of a game. We usually try to do this in a way that keeps every change positive or neutral at least, sometimes though it's unavoidable to add stuff that might seem negative in the beginning, to base other changes on that.

    The changes in the happiness formula are aiming to remove multiple problems from the game, which - for a big part - only appeared after we added a lot of other features earlier, so we possibly couldn't even think of the possibilities of Big Farm as it works today.

    Up to now, the running costs were capped at a relatively low value, so players couldn't go past +300%. This wasn't a problem at all when the game started out, since you couldn't earn anything any more if you decided to forget about happiness and go about it this way.
    Now, since the secondary farms were added, you could earn more and more, so the +300% cap could easily outbalanced with earnings from the other farms. Then, the master builder got added, which allowed even more workers and produce even more goods.

    The negatives for buildings did rise and rise, but the max number of impact stayed the same at 300%. On top of that, the running costs were even more easy outweighed by the secondary farms. We had to react to this and raise the cap accordingly to 500%, so the system would work again.

    On the other side of the scale, it looks similar.

    Due to new events it was possible for all players to build decoration with much more happiness than at the beginning of the game. They are not limited in any way, and they are way more powerful than the starter ones. When Big Farm started, it was way harder to get to 100% without hassle.
    So while we aimed for making the process of lowering production costs less trivial and a bit challenging again, it wasn't possible to create new incentives in form of better decoration (or even decoration in general, since -100% already were easy to get to). Over time, the happiness system as a whole became trivialized and more or less redundant, and made a huge portion of the game redundant as well.

    We'd like to present new and great rewards for you mastering the game, and surely one of the most wanted things in the game are decorations, let alone decorations with a higher value. This simply wasn't possible anymore. That's why we changed the positive scale of the happiness bar as well. While it's for now not possible to reach exactly 100%, we now have a huge new area for players to optimize, trying to get as much happiness as possible out of their decoration, and a new reason to look forward to new decorations again.

    The additional running costs that came with this patch shouldn't hit very hard. They are noticable, mainly if you look at the percentage instead of the actual costs, but there should be no problem at all regarding higher income if you use decoration on your farm. Or to say it differently, of course it looks better to get 100% instead of 85% or 90%, but the actual costs shouldn't be as high as they might seem when one just glances at the percentiles.

    We never had any intention to make players feel punished for building on and reaching the happiness maximum. If we left the maximum as it was though, we couldn't bring any more decoration with higher values into the game, so all rewards for upcoming things would pretty much be the same, and everything would get pretty boring pretty quickly. We already saw this kind of comments when we introduced the new difficulty for themed events, I'm sure you remember that.

    Additionally, with these changes, we are finally able to have exactly 0% reduction at a +-0 happiness value, instead of adding 5% to costs as it has been before. This actually was a big point for new users, who never understood (and how should they) why the 0 value didn't equal 0%. This also causes a slight improvement for players in the middle area of the scale.

    I hope this clears things up a bit. We are aware of the problems which got caused by this, and we're really sorry we weren't able to give you all of these informations in time. We're aware we disappointed you with this, and we're really sorry about the lack of fast and proper information with this update.

    Alright, feel free to continue the discussion, stay nice and we're glad to have you around, guys.
    Timo
  • neriux777neriux777 Posts: 161
    edited 20.03.2014
    Thank you for your time, and for explaining.
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    Sounds fine and reasonable Latten.

    Just one problem..
    IT STILL changed the rules completely out of the blue.

    If this is all to make it easier for new player, then make a new server with those rules implemented?

    I for one am still not happy with having my Volvo exchanged with a Skoda ( i own neiter in rl), with only a 4 day warning, and no room to have a say before it happened.

    As in.. having a say that was taken into consideration before implementation of said change.

    And you could really have made that statement a lot shorter..

    Hi ALL. we (GGS) started a game,, then we did a lot of stuff that we didnt know we were gonna do and it screwed up our game, so now ppl arent buying gold to get decos anymore, so now we have to make sure you all need new and bigger decos instead fo the ones you allready have bought,
    Enjoy the game and good luck on reaching max happiness. '

    Love GGS

    A lot shorter:)
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 20.03.2014
    ladygrail wrote: »
    But it also serves to keep information away from a lot of players, and thats the downside imo:)

    If that really was the case then this thread probably would have been shut down a long time ago and we would have been told not to discuss anything. JMHO :). hahahaha
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 20.03.2014
    maxiroy2 wrote: »
    If that really was the case then this thread probably would have been shut down a long time ago and we would have been told not to discuss anything. JMHO :). hahahaha

    You can post it, but if you are .."out of line".. so to speak.. it will not be long before your post is deleted by a mod. So only a few get to see it , if any.

    And if you then insist on reposting, and not let go of said subject.. you will be banned.

    I have had several posts of mine deleted in this thread allready, and while im ok with some of them as they were more on a personal note, some i was not ok with having removed.

    One thing is to keep things calm and civil, and polite even if angry.. but to delete aspects of a conversation to make it look less.. harsh.. is to dilute the meaning and deny a persons right to fully speak his or her opinion...

    So in a way.. we are monitored as to how far we can go.. just that mods really have a hard time keeping up in here.

    Keep the illusion that you can say something and ppl wont complain...

    meaning, keep the forum open so that ppl can talk, let some anger shine through, but remove as fast as possible the posts that hits too close to target.

    That was ppl think the have a say, and are oblivious about.. those that get silenced for their opinions and not for foul language.

    would you belive i have gotten banned before? :) ( not here)
  • Ghost rider (GB1)Ghost rider (GB1) GB1 Posts: 294
    edited 20.03.2014
    hey good news everybody !!! today is national happiness day !!

    http://www.un.org/en/events/happinessday/
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 20.03.2014
    Alli7 wrote: »
    Nope, still sounds like mathematical gobbledy gook to me

    Alli I made some graphs to make the maths more understanding (hopefully) you can find them here. Hope it helps show how for example where the returns for you're investment is reasonable... and where (over -80 to -90% RC its really not worth adding more decorations) its not.
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