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New Happiness Data (working out the formula)

minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
edited 26.09.2015 in Most Discussed Topics
---UPDATE see update 2 below

Thanks to all your help I have been able to create the following graphs of the new happiness/running costs relationship.
2m65rn9jpg
33yrsesjpg

I found all the boundaries for totals of 0 to 500, eg if you currently have 324, -83% and want to know if upgrading a decoration will get you up to -84% (from 338-363) you can check the raw data. Ive also added the rough boundaries to cover +460% to - 97%

Any numbers outside of +460% to - 97% (Although unlikely many people are operating outside of this range) would be grand. Otherwise use/enjoy/share etc.

looking at old data it appears people with positive happiness totals of under 106 have had a RC reduction over +106 have had a reduction. Any contributions of old data appreciated (as I could make a comparison)

A quick comparison of old vs new, the old version is in red. 294thf8jpg

(p.s to anyone who thought it was a log curve.. it doesnt appear to be but maybe my use of excel just isn't that good)

(p.p.s if the graph doesn't make it blatantly clear, while Larino may have got to -97% you end up with a farm looking like this attachmentphpattachmentid9978d1394745888 (credit Larino))

---UPDATE 2!!!
I've been thinking for the last couple of days and have concluded the following. However this is my opinions please only comment constructively, moaning and off topic etc will not be appreciated. While the above is generally fact the below is my argument:

I would say that my current opinion of the changes actually favours the factory farmers.

TO SIMPLIFY AND AVOID CONFUSION I've split players into 4 groups (don't take this as any sort of judgement) 2ry3py9jpg
Zone 1 = +350 to + 500% 'Factory Farms'
Zone 2 = 0 to +350% Not generally considered a strategy (often newbies mistakenly end up here)
Zone 3 = 0 to -60%/-80% 'The New Normal'
Zone 4 = -60%/-80% to -100% 'Deco Farms'

Since if you look at the -% side you can very quickly get to -60 or -80% (ZONE 3) but its very hard to get much beyond that...(ZONE 4) ie you must add allot of decorations to change 1 % in zone 4. So the change is good for 0 to -60% (3) say and bad for -60 to -99% (4)... ALL OBVIOUS I HEAR YOU CRY!
(and comparing this to the old data this rings true that RC reduce under the new system if you are in zone 3 but have increased if you are in zone 4)

BUT WAIT.... Look at the other side and its a very different tale, its very easy to very quickly (by adding a few houses/ removing a few decorations) to drop very quickly through zone 2 to a middling +%, whereas if you are a no deco farm beyond say +350% (Zone 1), it works like the -100% : you need a large change in happiness to create a small change to the percentage... so you can add allot more houses to almost no affect. Therefore IMO the formula favours being in zone 1 over zone 2.

THEREFORE (IMO ONLY) I think this change hits those currently in zones 2 and 4 the hardest and favours those in zone 3.

BUT MOST SHOCKINGLY is fairly favourable to the factory farms (Zone 1), sure the percentage went up but from +300% to +499% so the RC increase 66% ((500/300)-100=66). A hit but as many have said something they can deal with.

However it used to be that not just those running at high levels were on -100% before, I think I'd been there since the mid level 30's... so while that might not have been the best mathematically this meant allot of people were nursing 325 happiness to stay in that sweet spot. These people went from -100 to -83% which isn't just a 17% increase as they weren't paying anything before..but if you went from -99% to -84% for example: That would mean you started paying 1% of cost(As -99% means the 100-99=1% while +1% equals 101%) and now you are paying 16% of the cost ... thats a 160% increase! More than twice the 66% the factory farmers have to deal with.

Therefore I believe (be kind if you want to try to disprove this, I've been nothing but nice) that this update has had the most detrimental affect on those chasing -100% (zone 4) and those in zone 2 obviously you can flip it an say that zone 2's can now get to 0 with less help, but its certainly not a place to stay out of choice.

The system is rewarding 2 distinct zones: 1 (+500 to +350%) and 3 (0 to -60%) and is basically saying unless you are incredibly high level you should only play in zone 3... or more likely -30% to -80%.

SO while this is a bit rambley I conclude that in line with where the complaints are coming from on, the changes have not hit the group it is suggested they were aimed at.

While more complex (although the new relationship isn't 2 log curves I've checked) I think if they really wanted to hit zone 1 and not zone 4 the graph should look like the dotted lines.
n3t0s7jpg
(Apologies the curve between 0 and +50%ish I think is round the wrong way.. its late)

IMO I think it should be harder to fall into the +% especially as its a trap newbies repeatedly (those joining my coop at least) fall into, and I have previously suggested events/tasks where you win something for increasing your happiness to explain to newbies that being +100% (or worse) as a newbie is not a great place to be. (Sorry if you see this.. I'm not naming names but we had one member who's low happiness meant they were making a loss and not knowing why)

While I don't want to say it should go higher than +500%... If GG wants to discourage it they aren't doing that now.

On the other side I think getting to 13,000 total in order to get -100% is beyond ridiculous even 92% requires a total twice that of what -100% used to be (325). Therefore while I can see that it should maybe be harder than the old system, to have any argument that the change is because of higher level decos, you should be able to reach -98 to -99% with a total of less than 1,000 (thats huge anyway... its much easier to get a total of -1000 than +1000) while currently -98% it starts at 2598!!


ALSO (UPDATE 3) ... Susi Sonnschein4 previously posted a link to her info on the German board. It has a bit more comprehensive data that I haven't yet managed to incorporate yet. It also suggests for -100% you need 13214!!! So I would't suggest anyone trying it out!

FURTHERMORE its been calculated that the graph is actually smooth, and that the % figure you are shown is rounded but the costs will actually be affected by a number to at least 2 decimal places... e.g. it might show 56% but you are really getting 56.43% therefore it might be worth adding decorations even if they won't get you to the next percentage point. (thanks again for everyone input sorry I haven't credited everyone properly here)

Separately from the moaning about the happiness changes (please do this elsewhere!) Can people please post info on their current total and running costs. I have already created a graph showing running costs for 0% to -88%

Larino has already said that a total of 1713 = -96% but more data for both positive and negative running costs will mean we can create a more accurate graph to allow everyone a resource to plan expansion and/or if they plan to change their playing style (thou not recommended for a week)

Thanks in advance.
Post edited by WascallyWabbit (FormerMod) on
«134

Comments

  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 18.03.2014
    Played a bit with my UK farm - gradually deleting some decos. I could play some more later, but I hope these numbers are at least something :) Cannot add more than 1900 total atm, since I need to buy decos for that.
    1900 = -97%
    1879 = -97%
    1856 = -97%
    1851 = -97%
    1838 = -97%
    1824 = -96%
  • neriux777neriux777 Posts: 161
    edited 18.03.2014
    Total
    315 (83%) - 314 (82%)
    294 (82%) - 293 (81%) difference 21
    276 (81%) - 275 (80%) difference 18
    259 (80%) - 258 (79%) difference 17
    244 (79%) - 243 (78%) difference 15

    Do I need continue?
  • vikingur1- (NL1)vikingur1- (NL1) Posts: 149
    edited 18.03.2014
    -2202: +470%
    -2128: +469%
    -728 : +418%
    281 : -81%
    235 : -78%
    149 : -69%
    252 : -79%
  • duchessogravityduchessogravity Posts: 178
    edited 18.03.2014
    total -1934=+466%
    366=-85%
    369=-85%
    323=-83%
    222=-77%
    90=-57%
  • cariberrycariberry Posts: 87
    edited 18.03.2014
    total 151 = -69 happiness
  • Tonia2 (INT1)Tonia2 (INT1) INT1 Posts: 45
    edited 18.03.2014
    Total 433 = -87 happiness
  • tornadoo2tornadoo2 Posts: 23
    edited 18.03.2014
    hey if that help you too to continue it
    483 -88%
    522 -89%
    561 -89%
    600 -90%
    639 -91%
    723 -92%
  • montuosmontuos Posts: 1,275
    edited 18.03.2014
    +422 -86%
    +402 -86%
    +249 -79%
    +192 -74%
    +17 -20%
    -53 +135%
    -58 +144%
  • freerange (US1)freerange (US1) Posts: 135
    edited 18.03.2014
    -1146 +445%
    -1125 +444%
    -1093 +442%
    -1061 +441%
    -1030 +440%
    -1022 +439%
    -1003 +438%
    -984 +437%
    -913 +432%
    -895 +431%
    -862 +429%
    -841 +427%
    -806 +425%
    -774 +422%
    -742 +419%
    -694 +415%
    -646 +409%
    -617 +406%
    -588 +402%
    -560 +398%
    -486 +386%
    -412 +371%
    -386 +365%
    -368 +360%
    -308 +342%
    -295 +337%
    -277 +330%
    -258 +322%
    -184 +281%
    -110 +218%
    -84 +185%
    -45 +120%
    +29 -30%
    +101 -60%
    +140 -68%
    +214 -76%
    +249 -79%
    +270 -80%
    +291 -81%
    +305 -82%
    +323 -83%
    +349 -84%
    +375 -85%
    +388 -85%
    +413 -86%
    +431 -87%
    +452 -87%
    +470 -88%
    +490 -88%
    +502 -88%
    +514 -89%
  • KukkojakanaKukkojakana Posts: 20
    edited 18.03.2014
    if there's any use of these figures:
    +612 = -90% (main)
    +545 = -89% (gourmet)
    +149 = -69% (garden)
  • susy9susy9 Posts: 6
    edited 18.03.2014
    400 -86 on gourmet farm

    322-83 ut noticed u got that already.

    altogether
  • Jason3505Jason3505 Posts: 2
    edited 18.03.2014
    Happiness >>>> Running Cost

    +144 - 68 %
    -295 +337 %
    -375 +362 %
    -613 +405 %
    -1000 +437 %
    -1108 +443 %
  • pop1pop1 Posts: 341
    edited 18.03.2014
    -307 +341%
    -17 +53%
    -5 +17%
    +10 -13%
    +45 -40%
    +60 -47%
    +65 -49%
    +119 -64%
    +121 -64%
  • brutane (US1)brutane (US1) US1 Posts: 52
    edited 19.03.2014
    Thanks @minadequate, @Larino, and to anyone else I missed for spending the time to work out a chart for everyone. Your efforts are appreciated :)
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 19.03.2014
    Thanks everyone! Every bit is useful! I now have 99 bits of data but as many as possible would be amazing. Thanks especially to those who have the extreme ends which I would have never managed on my farm, Freerange, Larino etc. But really everything helps! Special thanks to Neriux for working out some boundaries, was hoping with enough data to work all the boundaries out but its so hard to add/minus just one happiness point, hence crowd sourcing the info. If/when I get to the point of having a whole load of boundaries I will release a chart but for now 79-82% are done! :)

    I've done a couple more quick graphs the first showing the overall and the second just the positive happiness in more detail as a little thanks at this stage:
    nuds9.jpg

    PLEASE DO KEEP ADDING DATA, I will keep adding it to my excel and once its a bit more complete share it with everyone. Thanks in advance
  • Marie_07 (GR1)Marie_07 (GR1) Posts: 24
    edited 19.03.2014
    total 188 = -74 happiness
  • LCCGamer (US1)LCCGamer (US1) US1 Posts: 27
    edited 19.03.2014
    162 -71%
    149 -69%
    148 -69%
    145 -69%
    144 -68%
    142 -68%
    136 -67%
    133 -67%
    129 -66%
    126 -65%
    123 -65%
    116 -64%
    110 -62%
    108 -62%
    103 -61%
    98 -60%
    89 -57%
    83 -55%
    68 -50%
    48 -42%
    47 -41%
    21 -24%
    -8 +27%
    -16 +50%
    -25 +74%
    -45 +120%
    -65 +156%
    -70 +164%
    -100 +206%
    -106 +213%
    -114 +222%
    -134 +242%
    -141 +248%
    -154 +259%
    -168 +270%
    -200 +292%
    -208 +296%
    -214 +300%
    -231 +309%
    -244 +315%
    -249 +318%
    -262 +324%
    -276 +329%
    -283 +332%
    -309 +342%
    -311 +343%
    -329 +349%
    -347 +354%
    -365 +359%
    -375 +362%
    -394 +367%
    -402 +369%
    -414 +372%
    -420 +373%
    -435 +376%
    -438 +377%
    -456 +381%
  • All4Fun (US1)All4Fun (US1) Posts: 224
    edited 19.03.2014
    I'd just like to say thank you for doing this graph. Makes it easier to understand the difference :).
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 19.03.2014
    No problem All4Fun. And thanks LCCGamer for that big chunk of data :)
  • AwesomerowendAwesomerowend Posts: 25
    edited 19.03.2014
    From 40% to 50% is about 12 net happiness. From 50% to 60% about another 30, from 60% to 70% about 50.
    Just guessing that after 50% its probably better to use the extra squares for production rather than deco.
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 19.03.2014
    Right the happiness data thats finished is here http://tinyurl.com/OrchidHappiness2

    That covers 0-512 totals, I have some more but its patchy...I really need the RC at 513 and then:
    between: 567-577ish (89/90 boundary),624-634ish (90/91 boundary) etc and upwards... otherwise more negative data would be brill.

    As you can see by the below graph after 500 it gets very inaccurate 2lcqlqv.jpg
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 19.03.2014
    1806 = -96
    1793 = -96
    1777 = -96
    1763 = -96
    1745 = -96
    1727 = -96
    1709 = -96
    1691 = -96
    1673 = -96
    1655 = -96
    1629 = -96
    1600 = -96
    1582 = -96
    1534 = -96
    1517 = -96
    1478 = -96
    1439 = -96
    1426 = -96
    1413 = -95
    1400 = -95
    1353 = -95
    1334 = -95
    1280 = -95
    1216 = -95
    1152 = -95
    1147 = -95
    1133 = -94
    1059 = -94
    985 = -94
    965 = -94
    947 = -93
    931 = -93
    919 = -93
    905 = -93
    891 = -93
    873 = -93
    835 = -93
    817 = -92
    743 = -92
    730 = -92
    722 = -92
    709 = -91
    673 = -91
    635 = -91
    622 = -90
    571 = -90
    557 = -89
    519 = -89
    501 = -88
    487 = -88
    471 = -88
    458 = -87

    Hope I did not make a mistake copying that from my notes :)
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 19.03.2014
    Oh Larino you're a star! TA-DAH.....

    bfs4ed.jpg
    33yrses.jpg

    Not sure if anyone will be running a farm at 97% but its interesting to see. Now we just need some more info from people playing in the negative.
  • pop1pop1 Posts: 341
    edited 20.03.2014
    -1642 +460%
    -1594 +459%
    -1572 +458%
    -1532 +457%
    -1492 +456%
    -1432 +455%
    -1394 +454%
    -1372 +453%
    -1334 +452%
    -1312 +451%
    -1279 +450%
    -1254 +449%
    -1260 +449%
    -1246 +449%
    -1244 +448%
    -1234 +448%
    -1214 +447%
    -1193 +447%
    -1182 +446%
    -1170 +446%
    -1158 +445%
    -1149 +445%
  • EricaJ (US1)EricaJ (US1) Posts: 202
    edited 20.03.2014
    If I'm reading this correctly - the steepest part of the curve runs from ~ -500 to +200 happies, so that is the range where you can get the biggest bang for the buck in decorations. Outside of that, on the flatter parts of the curve, large amounts of happies result in smaller changes in operating costs.

    Thanks for the data and charts.
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 20.03.2014
    Thank you all. I have incorporated all data up to and including eagle owls post into both the graphs and spreadsheet and its all listed in the first post (under update)
  • JGS (NL1)JGS (NL1) Posts: 12
    edited 20.03.2014
    Thanks for the data. It gives a good idea of how happiness works now.
    Great job!
  • Latten (DE1)Latten (DE1) Posts: 6,246
    edited 20.03.2014
    You guys really are impressive :) I posted this to our balancing team and yeah, it's pretty good.
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 20.03.2014
    So long as your running costs were between 0% and -61% before (+106 total) you will have seen an improvement although it seems many were not in the zone 294thf8.jpg
  • minadequate2minadequate2 Posts: 93
    edited 20.03.2014
    Glad you find it impressive Latten, I did worry if I publicly showed how the happiness revision worked I might incur the wrath of the GG team :P.
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