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shovels

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Comments

  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 05.12.2013
    AH thank you Farmer Tess! I was starting to think I got forgotten yet again.

    I think so much of the nasty remarks could be eliminated if there was clear explanation of what IS and what IS NOT in the update. We discuss it pros and cons and there is often no clarity even after we get the update. Here lately --this situation has been happening ALOT. Then there are bugs and just so frustrating to find the correct information. I had no idea at all about the golden shovel concept until it was mentioned a page or 2 back & could not tell anything about it.

    sigh I think i need a nap and a beer already and it is only 9 am. ;(
  • edited 05.12.2013
    Yes, Elizabeth... you can never please all of the people all of the time. That's true. I agree with everything you have said in your last post. Many changes that have been made to the game since I started playing it have been positive ones and I applaud those changes. The events are great examples of these changes.

    I never complained about any of the components of Big Farm at all, including COTE, missions or anything else; then OTHER people complained about them and the changes were made. I was quite happy with the game as it stood before the changes were made, thinking that although there were some fairly minor things that I didn't love about it, overall the game was a great one.

    If I didn't think this, I wouldn't have spent 4 to 5 times the amount of real dollars that I normally spend on shelf bought games on this game. When I buy games across the counter, I expect them (as does Australian law) to be fit for purpose to start with, so the recent spate of glitches has not impressed me. If this was a store bought game, I'd be returning it for a refund if it had glitches.

    Secondly, I believe in fair play and having as level a playing field as possible in life and in leisure. If I see things that are going to give some people a grossly unfair advantage over others, I speak up about it to reverse the negative changes that have caused the disparity. As a result, I have brought that with me to this game, as it is a part of me. I make no apology for that.

    I've passed level 80 now and I would not have done so if I didn't really enjoy the game. You are right, it is a fun, interesting game to play. Just because I feel strongly about some areas of the game breaching my code of ethics, doesn't mean I don't love playing it and it also doesn't mean I should lie down meekly and roll over onto my stomach with my tail between my legs, accepting every change without analysis and protest if it's a bad decision.
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 05.12.2013
    Just because I feel strongly about some areas of the game breaching my code of ethics, doesn't mean I don't love playing it and it also doesn't mean I should lie down meekly and roll over onto my stomach with my tail between my legs, accepting every change without analysis and protest if it's a bad decision.

    I hope you don't ever stop expressing your opinions, whether the agree with mine or not. I am Irish so I love to argue. I enjoy coming to the forums for the interesting debates. It is more the extreme ranting and or whining (not you, and generally not most people on the forums) that I could do without at times. Even though they do give me a good chuckle at times.
  • edited 05.12.2013
    Thanks Elizabeth... I have some Ulster Irish ancestry and have to admit that they were Orange men, so our ancestors would no doubt have disagreed on some fundamental things! I share the same sentiment as you do regarding expressing your opinions too... We all have the right to say our piece. I do try to make some of my posts wryly humorous but possibly sometimes they might fall flat with the wrong people.... ah, well... once again, we can't please everyone. Anyway, as it's after midnight, I'm off to get some beauty sleep and to keep it on topic, I really dig shovels, when they are used for my line of work.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 05.12.2013
    thanks ice_cold for Post #68. i got it now and can delete my post now -- I don't want to confuse any one ;)
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 05.12.2013
    Nafaru wrote: »
    I'm gonna make it really short: it takes the five most recent and calculates it on four (dropping the one with the worst performance). :)

    Thank you Nafaru for the clarification!
  • ice cold3ice cold3 Posts: 42
    edited 05.12.2013
    Nafaru wrote: »
    I'm gonna make it really short: it takes the five most recent and calculates it on four (dropping the one with the worst performance). :)

    From the official announcement:
    "It will be displayed for every coop member's performance during the last 5 projects, with more recent project having more weight than older ones."

    So, if I slack off during the last project, will the grade for that single project count toward the median, as it says in the initial info on the formula, or will it be excluded? 8|
  • mariachi (RO1)mariachi (RO1) Posts: 7,850
    edited 05.12.2013
    Nafaru wrote: »
    Of course there are way more things taken into account, but we cannot give away all of those. :)

    why not? do GGS think that we are to stupid to understand a formula? why is this a secret? is a patented invention of yours or what's the reason?

    I think all the formulas in the game should be PUBLIC: happiness, shovels, charity event, all of them.

    after all, these formulas affect the way we play and we have the right to know what we are dealing with.
  • Faye1953Faye1953 Posts: 9
    edited 05.12.2013
    I really enjoyed reading all the info you've guys left on the shovels. I just received my first golden shovel best contribution award. I not really sure that I deserve one or how I got it. I have 2 farms and my main farm (level 66) is the one I really work on. The 2nd farm (level 48) I feel like I'm treating it like a step child. So which one got the golden shovel you betcha the 2nd farm. Now I feel like I'm obligated to keep this. I think I've put myself between a rock and a hard place. I'll keep my eye on this and see how it plays out. Thanks for all your thoughts on this.
  • Mae LynnMae Lynn Posts: 17
    edited 06.12.2013
    2 (hopefully) quick things:

    1) I don't get it. How can you drop the 5th score & still calculate the median? Unless you also drop the 4th score (and by definition, median would also mean you drop the 2 highest scores, picking the score in the middle). Please tell me that is the case because otherwise I am completely confused all over again.

    2) I still agree with Alex. I get that there need to be some proprietary aspects to the game, but RULES should not be one of them. How are we supposed to win if we don't know what it takes to move up? I don't necessarily need the formula itself, but it would be good to have it spelled out what contributes to each level of shovels. For example, I am pretty sure that you cannot get to 5 shovels unless you have maxed out the level on your fields (based on whatever level you are in the game). It seems a bit silly that I have no way to verify this. I am slowly working on improving my fields, but if I knew that would actually definitely make a difference, I would spend the gold to get them up right away. I had an L6, an L5, an L4 and two L3 fields. I now have an L6, L5 and three L4 fields. So I guess we'll see if that makes any difference at all.

    Also, it seems like if you don't have 5 activities to use for the calculation, it should continue to read "No Data Yet" or something to that effect, rather than giving some skewed number of shovels. I'd like to keep playing this game & planned to spend more rl money on it at Christmas, but I have to say these mystery shovels are stating to spoil it for me.
  • edited 06.12.2013
    Our leader has regularly got 4 or 5 shovels... He is very high level (for our server anyway) and he does what none of the rest of us does: uses gold to skip production constantly throughout his day, including during the projects. I get 3 to 4 shovels all the time but I don't usually skip production unless it's for an urgent, highly important reason. That and the fact that he has his farm maxed out and I don't would be the main differences between us. We both spend a lot of time online.
  • Tony444Tony444 Posts: 54
    edited 06.12.2013
    stop fighting on here
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 06.12.2013
    Tony444 wrote: »
    stop fighting on here

    I think you're a day or so late with that one ;)
  • Kat Nip (GB1)Kat Nip (GB1) GB1 Posts: 3,796
    edited 06.12.2013
    ice cold3 wrote: »
    From the official announcement:
    "It will be displayed for every coop member's performance during the last 5 projects, with more recent project having more weight than older ones."

    So, if I slack off during the last project, will the grade for that single project count toward the median, as it says in the initial info on the formula, or will it be excluded? 8|
    I don't profess to be an expert at this at all, however I believe that the lowest result is removed and the rest is averaged out. So basically, if you slacked off enough that it was your lowest result, it shouldn't make a difference to the number of shovels you receive.

    However, if you slacked off again in another project within the 5 project assessment without increasing your output in others, you would see a decrease in your shovel results.

    Kat. Kittie_by_otomosc.gif
  • edited 06.12.2013
    Yes, that's the way I interpreted it too, Kat Nip.

    Tony444, I don't see any post on this page at least whereby anyone was fighting. We were just discussing things and actually did find some common ground... nothing wrong with that. Have fun and be grateful that we live in a world where we can both have fun and express our opinions. :)
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 06.12.2013
    Mae Lynn wrote: »



    2) I still agree with Alex. I get that there need to be some proprietary aspects to the game, but RULES should not be one of them. How are we supposed to win if we don't know what it takes to move up? I don't necessarily need the formula itself, but it would be good to have it spelled out what contributes to each level of shovels. For example, I am pretty sure that you cannot get to 5 shovels unless you have maxed out the level on your fields (based on whatever level you are in the game). It seems a bit silly that I have no way to verify this. I am slowly working on improving my fields, but if I knew that would actually definitely make a difference, I would spend the gold to get them up right away. I had an L6, an L5, an L4 and two L3 fields. I now have an L6, L5 and three L4 fields. So I guess we'll see if that makes any difference at all.

    .

    Unless you are in a co-op that is really pushing that everyone must get 5 shovels, why do you feel you have to spend gold just to improve your number of shovels?? And honestly I wouldn't want to be in a co-op like that. Maybe if the shovels are spoiling it for you, it might be time to look for a better co-op. Relax about the shovels, unless you are getting 0, and just do the best you can.
  • amaprincess1 (US1)amaprincess1 (US1) Posts: 636
    edited 06.12.2013
    Kat Nip2 wrote: »
    I don't profess to be an expert at this at all, however I believe that the lowest result is removed and the rest is averaged out. So basically, if you slacked off enough that it was your lowest result, it shouldn't make a difference to the number of shovels you receive.

    However, if you slacked off again in another project within the 5 project assessment without increasing your output in others, you would see a decrease in your shovel results.

    Kat. Kittie_by_otomosc.gif

    Pretty sure that's exactly how it works. Had a busy week and my co-op flies through projects. I missed two completely and one almost entirely this week and dropped from 4 to 2 shovels. Worked on all five late last week through the weekend to get to 4.
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 06.12.2013
    ElizabethK wrote: »
    Unless you are in a co-op that is really pushing that everyone must get 5 shovels, why do you feel you have to spend gold just to improve your number of shovels?? And honestly I wouldn't want to be in a co-op like that. Maybe if the shovels are spoiling it for you, it might be time to look for a better co-op. Relax about the shovels, unless you are getting 0, and just do the best you can.

    I totally agree! I have stepped back from the shovel and am not going to worry to much about them. I can only be on here for so much and that is something I really can't control. If I get 5 that is great if I get less well, that is just the way it goes. And if you are in a good co-op then it shouldn't be a problem. I am not going to let a shovel ruin a game for me LOL.
  • Relax9Relax9 Posts: 2
    edited 07.12.2013
    I don't like the idea proposed here of only leaders seeing the shovels. Instead, I would prefer that each members has a private metric to see how they did in relation to the group as a whole. In short, I want to see if I'm pulling my weight or not. I don't care to see if other people are pulling their weight. I think that solution would result in less conflict while giving people feedback on their performance.
  • Mae LynnMae Lynn Posts: 17
    edited 07.12.2013
    ElizabethK wrote: »
    Unless you are in a co-op that is really pushing that everyone must get 5 shovels, why do you feel you have to spend gold just to improve your number of shovels?? And honestly I wouldn't want to be in a co-op like that. Maybe if the shovels are spoiling it for you, it might be time to look for a better co-op. Relax about the shovels, unless you are getting 0, and just do the best you can.

    I never said anything about my co-op pushing me to get any amount of shovels. Right now, he's not even taking it into account at all. But I don't understand the point of having a mystery metric. If obtaining shovels is just random, why even have the metric at all? I get that there is some semi-hidden formula, but if no one knows how to improve shovel score, it may as well be random. I have 4 shovels now & still have no clue why it changed after this round. I guess I will have to just ignore it, but it frustrates me for sure. It feels like when you're playing cards with Kindergarteners & they almost without fail will make up a rule that some card has special powers (e.g., the Joker). What those special powers are seem to depend on who gets the card. If I get the Joker, it probably just means that I get an extra turn. When the 5-year-old gets the Joker, it might give them 10 extra turns, or mean they automatically win the game, or give them 50 extra points, or the chance to trade as many cards as they'd like with whomever they'd like. Obviously, as the grown-up, I take the time to teach them that games have rules & that you win by following the instructions. I will let them make up new rules in advance, but then we have to apply them for the entire round -- no hidden rules/ways to win. That's what I've been asking for here.

    I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just voicing my opinion. I can definitely move forward treating the shovel rating system as a type of "lottery" and pay it no mind. I just usually don't enjoy playing games that rely on luck. It has nothing to do with whether I can stay in my current co-op. It has everything to do with why I chose to spend time and money on entertainment. I get that some people prefer games of chance & if that's what most BF gamers like, then this new system was perfectly designed. I can see at this point that it probably just is what it is. I only contributed my questions and thoughts because for a while it seemed that GGS was open to the questions & feedback (from me & from people who had differing opinions -- I certainly don't speak for everyone & I'm glad to see both like and differing opinions posted). I feel good about keeping my own discourse respectful. I never slammed anyone else's opinions or character. I just posted my questions & beliefs in what I was led to believe was the appropriate place to voice them. :D
  • D-Dub (US1)D-Dub (US1) Posts: 72
    edited 07.12.2013
    I was on vacation during release of the shovel update, & have been greatly anticipating returning home, to learn about it. I returned early this morning, & after a couple hours of sleep, I started reading, and talking with members about it to see what I can learn.

    I am a co-op leader, who has been anticipating something of the sorts, almost since inception of my top ranking co-op.

    GGS, if I said it once, I've said it a million times, you guys have a tough position, & you are damned if you do, & damned if you don't... While I somewhat feel for you folks, I also don't feel for you.

    Before release of this update, your forums billed this as something many of us have been awaiting for a long time. Yes, from what I have learned through the forums, many players have been wanting to know who helps with co-op projects, & who isn't.

    I as a leader, or as a deputy, or as a member, should not have to do more, because someone else, who wants to log their account online, doesn't do what you may like to think they are doing. In no way, is this, from what I've learned, what the players have been wanting.

    People have been intimidated by this, & are questioning there abilities of retaining their positions in co-ops. We players were not asking for another reason for potential members, to want to leave our co-ops. We were asking for a tool to help us see who is helping our co-ops, so we don't have freeloaders along for the ride...

    The developers get paid good money I am sure, & it is likely that they are not stupid. They know this is not what we asked for, & I assume there is an ulterior motive.

    I too would like to be able to turn the shovel feature off, & will not be using it for removing or keeping members. While individual players should be able to see what they contributed, to individual projects, I too agree that other players shouldn't be forced to deal with how well they are doing, compared to the next. Only deputies, leaders, co-op founders, as well as the individual themselves, should be able to see the numbers.

    Each production facility has a different look to it, when it is running, compared to when it is not running. Because of this, I am able to see who is helping & who isn't, much better than this form you all billed as what we been awaiting...

    Forum Admins, & Moderators... Like with many threads/post in these forums, I often find it strange what you all reply to, & what you don't...
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 07.12.2013
    D-Dub wrote: »
    While individual players should be able to see what they contributed, to individual projects, I too agree that other players shouldn't be forced to deal with how well they are doing, compared to the next. .

    I personally can't worry about that. Reason being is when I wasn't working I had a lot of time to come on here. I could play 24/7 if I had wanted to. Since then I have started a job and there is just no way I am going to do as well as someone who has more time. However, our co-op does realize this and not everyone can be on at the same time. It's just a fact and people do have a real life outside of the game.

    I personally would be more worried about the ones that don't contribute to research than the ones who for whatever reason couldn't collect corn on a particular project on a particular day. But that is just me. I am pretty sure most co-ops look at the big picture not just the shovels.
  • Sue8 (US1)Sue8 (US1) Posts: 94
    edited 09.12.2013
    I have to say that I am disappointed in the shovels... I work by butt off for the co-op. and because we blew through a corn project in record time and I had appointments, I didnt get to contribute and went from 5 shovels with the golden shovel down to 2 shovels.... Now don't I look like an effective leader!!! *sarcasm dripping
  • edited 09.12.2013
    maxiroy2 wrote: »
    I personally can't worry about that. Reason being is when I wasn't working I had a lot of time to come on here. I could play 24/7 if I had wanted to. Since then I have started a job and there is just no way I am going to do as well as someone who has more time. However, our co-op does realize this and not everyone can be on at the same time. It's just a fact and people do have a real life outside of the game.

    I personally would be more worried about the ones that don't contribute to research than the ones who for whatever reason couldn't collect corn on a particular project on a particular day. But that is just me. I am pretty sure most co-ops look at the big picture not just the shovels.

    Darn right! I manage the research for our co-op of 39 members and I keep a spreadsheet on who does what projects. This is sent to our leader from time to time for his perusal. Research participation is taken very seriously in our co-op and people who don't participate in research very often are counselled by the leader. Sometimes, habitual offenders who have no good reason for not participating end up making way for those who will participate. Why should anyone have to hire a researcher because someone else is not doing the right thing?

    A holistic approach is best when it comes to working out whether or not people are contributing to the co-op.
  • Lilypaddle (INT1)Lilypaddle (INT1) Posts: 614
    edited 10.12.2013
    Sue8 wrote: »
    I have to say that I am disappointed in the shovels... I work by butt off for the co-op. and because we blew through a corn project in record time and I had appointments, I didnt get to contribute and went from 5 shovels with the golden shovel down to 2 shovels.... Now don't I look like an effective leader!!! *sarcasm dripping

    yeah but this is something you have no control over. We have about 27 people and we are all in different time zones, we all work different hours etc. It is impossible to start projects when everyone is on at the same time. I do better in the apples projects or the ones that require more time than I do in the lets say egg or corn one. And it's not because I don't want to do it, I just can't.

    I just think everyone has to not worry about the shovels so much and just keep playing like normal. I honestly think that most people use common sense when it comes to who is contributing to the co-op and who isn't. I wouldn't think my leader wasn't effective if he lost his gold shovel. I probably wouldn't even give it much thought to be honest! LOL

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