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Comments
@ dragonpride. Agree
I edited out the big boy pants, that phrase was indeed a bit over the top and not very respectfull. My apologies.
The rest of the original post does not seem nearly as ugly now.
Or making metaphorical mountains out of molehills...
Or metaphorically getting over it...
The point is, I seriously don't see what the disagreement is about. I think some people are overreacting to what is supposed to just be an open, frank and mature discussion about morality and religion. I don't see the problem with that sort of discussion if we all are open-minded, mature and tactful about how we handle views that we don't personally share.
It's not like if you see someone that has different moral or religious practices from you that you just refuse to engage with them because they have different practices; why should it be like that here? (Actually, if you did that in real life then I'm pretty sure that is what counts as intolerance.)
Further, I am still not seeing any evidence that anyone has been bullied (by GGS or anyone else).
Also, where can I find the forum rules/terms of service by which the content of this forum is regulated? Mods, is there a link for it somewhere?
Legal Information, Terms & Conditions including Terms of Use can be found though the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page
**Thought there was more.
forum rules:
Okay, now that I've read the forum rules, Monica, can you please tell me how this discussion is breaking them in any way?
(Update: also just read the legal info. No reference to political or religious beliefs there either.)
If you don't have anything nice to say--then don't say it. Be respectful.
(update: just checked the community guidelines you've added, and there's nothing in there either specifically about religion or politics. Perhaps the closest you could get is in the bit about "offensive behaviour towards other cultures" but that's a bit of a stretch since we're not offending anyone merely by discussing religious, cultural and moral practices.)
You've made claims about bullying which you haven't substantiated. You've also said that things are hateful and vulgar in this but did not elaborate on what they are.* You've also said that there was information about opening locked threads in the legal information for the game, and I just checked and there isn't.
It is worrisome to me that you are making claims that simply are not true about the game. I'm not trying to offend you, but I think that if you are going to talk about being respectful to people, you should probably be respectful enough of your peers on the forums to interpret what they are saying in a charitable light and not assume that everyone is trying to be disrespectful or hateful.
(You might also think that, as enforcers of the rules, since two mods and a CM have weighed in here and the topic is still open for discussion, that this is good evidence that no rules have been breached.)
All the discussion in this topic is simply trying to deal with the fact that people will have different moral, political and religious views. Not everyone will like everything that is being said, but for the sake of tolerance we don't just smack down what we don't agree with or demand that a topic be closed. Instead, we engage with others in an open minded and mature way so that we can learn the reasons why they have adopted a particular moral, political or religious position. I think that so long as everyone understands that we're not trying to convince anyone to change their positions and all we are doing is being interested in their beliefs, then no harm is done.
With that said, and while I enjoy the metadiscussion about the merits of this topic, perhaps we could go back to talking about whether there's anything morally wrong with having pixel pigs on your farm?
**as far as I am aware, legal subcategories of hateful and vulgar speech include swearing, racial vilification, etc. I'm not seeing any of that here, under any common understanding of swearing or racial vilification.
Because most people will reasonably see that that's not the point of what I'm saying, merely an illustration.
**going to step back and let the mods clean this up a bit.
Oh, but enough about me! Could you please explain to everyone about where you think GGS is bullying people by having pigs in the game comes from (since, after all, having pigs or not is the point of discussion of this topic right)?
this thread is going no where
Since neither Rhon, nor Katnip, nor Tess, nor Malreyn has seen any reason to close this thread yet, we can go on talking about it as long as we stay polite, respectful and stay on topic.
Wether or not it was my place to open this topic is not on topic, so please let it rest, or open yourself a new topic about it. I opened this one, because I was putting it in a thread where it didn't belong, thus going offtopic.
So please be my guest and open a new topic called: "Was Gwen allowed to open thisandthat topic?"
With my first post I did not have the intention to bully anyone or be condescending, therefor I edited out the pants.
I am not the bullying kind of person, I firmly believe in: to each his/her own. But don't try to want others to change because that is what you believe.
If you want to wear a dress? Do it! Rather not wear a dress? Then don't. If a man wants to wear a dress, good for him, I find it nice and comfy, so I like he gets to feel that way. But don't try to convince anybody that wearing a dress is bad, or that a dress is the only thing to wear.
GGS decided to keep this a butcherfree game. I like it this way. If I want meat I'll go to the fridge. If I want to play a game wíth a butcher, I'll play Anno.
But GGS díd make a game with pigs. Nice, cute, pink pixelpigs. I am not bothered by the fact that people don't want them on their farms, to each their own.
But where I dó get slightly miffed is when people try to "force" their believes and or idea's on others.
Example. When I worked at a school with a lot of muslim kids in the class, they called me several not too nice names, which I won't repeat here, because I had ham on my lunch sandwich. I am not a muslim, nor a vegetarian, I eat ham. I did nót push the ham in their face, I did not tell them to eat the ham.
Now apparently the piggies are under discussion on other servers, because there are a lot more people there that for one or another reason, don't eat pig.
GGS does nót force them to build the pigs on their farms and GGS definitely doesn't put a ham in front of them and forces them to eat it.
To each their own, but then also the pigs for those that dó like them!
(and horses, and sheep 8) YES! JOKE!)
Typed words mean EVERYTHING when that is all you have to know about a person and frankly I don't want to know more about some of the people that posted in this thread. I think true colors show bright in a thread such as this. I am anxious to have the forum be friendly and a place to relax and enjoy the game again.
Unless it's Monsanto, but don't get me started on that!
As for not being able to progress in the game because of pigs, that seems to be patently false. Sure, you might lose out on money in that case, but it is still possible to play the game around it. The game is designed so you can farm however you see fit. If you don't want pigs, fine. Don't have pigs. But then deal with the fact you don't get to do the tasks that involve pigs. That would be the same for anyone who didn't want cows or eggs or apples or dung or whatever on their farm. They are free to not have those things on their farm either, but if they have considered the consequences of not doing the tasks that involve those things and still decide not to have cows/eggs/apples/poop on their farm then that's their choice.
Wow, that seems mighty intolerant of you. Just saying.
@Monica,
This thread was started because Gwen wanted to voice her concerns over pigs being possibly removed from the game due to conflicting opinions from people on other servers/countries with different religious/ethical views on life. She did not call any of those people derogatory names or made racial remarks; she has the privilege of posting her opinion (of keeping the pigs in the game) as much as you have the privilege of posting to disagree with her opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to backseat-mod. I'm speaking as a fellow forum user. You're not contributing anything productive to the topic at hand as a community member and a forum user. People are responding in such "rude" ways to you (as you perceive them) precisely because of the way you are communicating your objections to the topic. If you disagree, you could have voiced your side in a much more productive manner. Instead you are speaking very condescendingly and then acting all offended afterwards. If this topic bothers you so greatly, you can just report the topic to the mods and request it to be closed that way, can't you? Instead of fighting others and provoking them? No one is forcing you to keep reading this either.
SO PLEASE, may we all just get back on the topic of "Gwen would like to keep the pigs in the game," unless the Mods see this topic as unfit to continue?
Read the opening thread
Especially the second paragraph
"This may be a touchy subject, I am gonna try approaching it polite but clear. I hope others will too, so we can discuss this as grownups without moderators having to close it."
So everyone approach the topic politely and clearly. Discuss the topic as grown ups. Or I will close it. I don't want to do that
And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved. Put previous comments behind us now and move forward respectfully
Which part of "And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved." was not understood?
And yes I am being sarcastic
Debate the topic on hand. Discuss the issues
Do not discuss individuals
"And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved."
Disappointingly
If I've missed one after that post please tell me the post number and it will be removed too
As for the pigs, I do respect Big Farm for their attempts to be all things to all people. They do try very hard, I do commend them for that. At the same time I believe ultimately doing so could be the downfall of the game. For example as a writer pointed out above, removing pigs because of jews and muslims, would lead to removing cows for those from India. Replacing pigs with horses wouldn't work, because horses aren't Kosher or halel either.
If it is about removing all things that could be or are offensive then if I state that easter eggs are highly offensive to me (and they are); then you would also need to take my concern into consideration as to treat all groups equally and not cater to a specific group. That being said, I know a lot of people really enjoyed the Easter egg task, therefore I would not want to infringe upon someone else's experience. I feel that it would be selfish of me to imply or demand the game be changed because of my religious preference.
I'm not encouraging insensitivity, just a live and let live philosophy! ;D 8)
Several times, pigs has been mentioned as offensive to many social groups, yet no word how GGS is going to deal with it. I have hard time accepting that this will continue.