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BigFarm and Livestyles/religions

2

Comments

  • jess_d (US1)jess_d (US1) US1 Posts: 3,515
    edited 22.08.2013
    ElizabethK, I forgot about that one. Good one!
  • dragonpridedragonpride Posts: 574
    edited 22.08.2013
    there is a very fine line between having tolerance and letting people walk all over you.if you remove pigs for the sake of one religion then you will have to remove cows for another, remove all non kosher food items and so on until you have a shell of what the game used to be.the game is based in europe and the game itself is based on that and similar cultures.people who dont like the culture and practices the game is based on are free to leave at any time just like im free to change the tv station if i dont like what i see.theres enough political drama in the real world why drag it into the virtual world?
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 22.08.2013
    @hust, not saying I have a problem with eating veggies, just exclusively veggies. We are not herbivores.

    @ dragonpride. Agree :)
  • Gwendolen (US1)Gwendolen (US1) Posts: 1,268
    edited 22.08.2013
    CM Malreyn wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I'm only going to say this once in this thread, but make sure it stays respectful. Telling someone to "put on your big boys pants and do it" is not respectful to someones belief.

    I edited out the big boy pants, that phrase was indeed a bit over the top and not very respectfull. My apologies.
  • chancier13chancier13 Posts: 4
    edited 22.08.2013
    I have not read one post here where u would consider anyone or thing being bullied. This is all about changing things in the game bcause of someones beliefs. Personally I agree with those who say everyone has a choice to play the game and omit the use of pigs (if that is your belief) or just chose not to play. If gamers had to curb there game style to suit all beliefs it would make it very difficult. The pigs here as stated b4 r not being used in any bad way. I also do not understand why someone feels anyone is being disrespectful.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    Ah Thank you Gwendolen for editting;)
    The rest of the original post does not seem nearly as ugly now.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    I guess it's also inappropriate then to talk about getting metaphorical panties in a twist... :P

    Or making metaphorical mountains out of molehills...

    Or metaphorically getting over it...

    The point is, I seriously don't see what the disagreement is about. I think some people are overreacting to what is supposed to just be an open, frank and mature discussion about morality and religion. I don't see the problem with that sort of discussion if we all are open-minded, mature and tactful about how we handle views that we don't personally share.

    It's not like if you see someone that has different moral or religious practices from you that you just refuse to engage with them because they have different practices; why should it be like that here? (Actually, if you did that in real life then I'm pretty sure that is what counts as intolerance.)

    Further, I am still not seeing any evidence that anyone has been bullied (by GGS or anyone else).

    Also, where can I find the forum rules/terms of service by which the content of this forum is regulated? Mods, is there a link for it somewhere?
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 22.08.2013
    jaystarr2 wrote: »
    Also, where can I find the forum rules/terms of service by which the content of this forum is regulated? Mods, is there a link for it somewhere?
    Forum Rules are linked at the bottom of the page

    Legal Information, Terms & Conditions including Terms of Use can be found though the Contact Us link at the bottom of the page
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    geez i thought the thread was back on track to polite discussion--see just can't happen.

    **Thought there was more.
    forum rules:
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    Thanks Rhon! For some reason I was looking in the top bar for the rules, but it's good to know where they are for quick reference. :)

    Okay, now that I've read the forum rules, Monica, can you please tell me how this discussion is breaking them in any way?

    (Update: also just read the legal info. No reference to political or religious beliefs there either.)
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    sounds pretty hateful and vulgar. needs editting. There is more rules ( somewhere) about opening a locked thread and includes information about mulitaccounting--those rules. **Latten posted these a few months ago, http://en.board.goodgamestudios.com/bigfarm/showthread.php?40280

    If you don't have anything nice to say--then don't say it. Be respectful.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    The multiaccounting rules are in the legal information; I just checked. There's nothing about religion or politics in there though. There's also nothing about locked topics, since the legal rules are there for the running of the entire game, not just the forum.

    (update: just checked the community guidelines you've added, and there's nothing in there either specifically about religion or politics. Perhaps the closest you could get is in the bit about "offensive behaviour towards other cultures" but that's a bit of a stretch since we're not offending anyone merely by discussing religious, cultural and moral practices.)

    You've made claims about bullying which you haven't substantiated. You've also said that things are hateful and vulgar in this but did not elaborate on what they are.* You've also said that there was information about opening locked threads in the legal information for the game, and I just checked and there isn't.

    It is worrisome to me that you are making claims that simply are not true about the game. I'm not trying to offend you, but I think that if you are going to talk about being respectful to people, you should probably be respectful enough of your peers on the forums to interpret what they are saying in a charitable light and not assume that everyone is trying to be disrespectful or hateful.

    (You might also think that, as enforcers of the rules, since two mods and a CM have weighed in here and the topic is still open for discussion, that this is good evidence that no rules have been breached.)

    All the discussion in this topic is simply trying to deal with the fact that people will have different moral, political and religious views. Not everyone will like everything that is being said, but for the sake of tolerance we don't just smack down what we don't agree with or demand that a topic be closed. Instead, we engage with others in an open minded and mature way so that we can learn the reasons why they have adopted a particular moral, political or religious position. I think that so long as everyone understands that we're not trying to convince anyone to change their positions and all we are doing is being interested in their beliefs, then no harm is done.

    With that said, and while I enjoy the metadiscussion about the merits of this topic, perhaps we could go back to talking about whether there's anything morally wrong with having pixel pigs on your farm? :D



    **as far as I am aware, legal subcategories of hateful and vulgar speech include swearing, racial vilification, etc. I'm not seeing any of that here, under any common understanding of swearing or racial vilification.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    Sure you wanted to say that and then claim to expect a profound conversation about this topic? Really?
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    Yep.

    Because most people will reasonably see that that's not the point of what I'm saying, merely an illustration.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    Well, how can you expect to have an intelligent conversation when you say something like that?

    **going to step back and let the mods clean this up a bit.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    Please refer to post #45, where I explain how that works. And also perhaps knowing what a metaphor is and its function in the English language would be useful. If you'd like more information on that, please let me know and I'd be happy to help out.

    Oh, but enough about me! Could you please explain to everyone about where you think GGS is bullying people by having pigs in the game comes from (since, after all, having pigs or not is the point of discussion of this topic right)? :)
  • Sue8 (US1)Sue8 (US1) Posts: 94
    edited 22.08.2013
    I think bringing someone's intelligence into question is a little insensitive and a little rude honestly. Jaystarr is merely stating that it is just a game. The developers cannot make the game fit into everyone's religious, moral and ethical background.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    it is offensive to have pigs and cows for some religions and other beliefs, pigs are a pretty big part of the game if one wants to advance and yet GGS refuse to make accomodations, while still allowing such threads to be unmonitored--

    this thread is going no where
  • dragonpridedragonpride Posts: 574
    edited 22.08.2013
    Well, how can you expect to have an intelligent conversation when you say something like that?
    i really dont see how anybody is being intolerant.if you feel like somebody has discriminated against you than you need to report them but the original post was about not removing pigs from the game just because some people dont like them.the topic has slowly went from that to an all out political debate.this is a game.its not real.religion and politics have nothing to do with planting corn and selling pigs.if anything in this game offends other cultures than its their decision whether or not they play the game.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    Mods? anywhere?
  • Gwendolen (US1)Gwendolen (US1) Posts: 1,268
    edited 22.08.2013
    As far as I know, I have not re-opened a closed thread. I made a new thread because some others were closed for going off-topic or getting hatefull.

    Since neither Rhon, nor Katnip, nor Tess, nor Malreyn has seen any reason to close this thread yet, we can go on talking about it as long as we stay polite, respectful and stay on topic.
    Wether or not it was my place to open this topic is not on topic, so please let it rest, or open yourself a new topic about it. I opened this one, because I was putting it in a thread where it didn't belong, thus going offtopic.
    So please be my guest and open a new topic called: "Was Gwen allowed to open thisandthat topic?"

    With my first post I did not have the intention to bully anyone or be condescending, therefor I edited out the pants.

    I am not the bullying kind of person, I firmly believe in: to each his/her own. But don't try to want others to change because that is what you believe.
    If you want to wear a dress? Do it! Rather not wear a dress? Then don't. If a man wants to wear a dress, good for him, I find it nice and comfy, so I like he gets to feel that way. But don't try to convince anybody that wearing a dress is bad, or that a dress is the only thing to wear.

    GGS decided to keep this a butcherfree game. I like it this way. If I want meat I'll go to the fridge. If I want to play a game wíth a butcher, I'll play Anno.
    But GGS díd make a game with pigs. Nice, cute, pink pixelpigs. I am not bothered by the fact that people don't want them on their farms, to each their own.

    But where I dó get slightly miffed is when people try to "force" their believes and or idea's on others.
    Example. When I worked at a school with a lot of muslim kids in the class, they called me several not too nice names, which I won't repeat here, because I had ham on my lunch sandwich. I am not a muslim, nor a vegetarian, I eat ham. I did nót push the ham in their face, I did not tell them to eat the ham.
    Now apparently the piggies are under discussion on other servers, because there are a lot more people there that for one or another reason, don't eat pig.
    GGS does nót force them to build the pigs on their farms and GGS definitely doesn't put a ham in front of them and forces them to eat it.

    To each their own, but then also the pigs for those that dó like them!




    (and horses, and sheep 8) YES! JOKE!)
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    Yes, i appreciate you editting your post, and as i stated immediately after--much of the rest seemed not nearly so ugly remarks. You earned a bit of my respect back by doing so.

    Typed words mean EVERYTHING when that is all you have to know about a person and frankly I don't want to know more about some of the people that posted in this thread. I think true colors show bright in a thread such as this. I am anxious to have the forum be friendly and a place to relax and enjoy the game again.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 22.08.2013
    religion and politics have nothing to do with planting corn

    Unless it's Monsanto, but don't get me started on that! ;)

    As for not being able to progress in the game because of pigs, that seems to be patently false. Sure, you might lose out on money in that case, but it is still possible to play the game around it. The game is designed so you can farm however you see fit. If you don't want pigs, fine. Don't have pigs. But then deal with the fact you don't get to do the tasks that involve pigs. That would be the same for anyone who didn't want cows or eggs or apples or dung or whatever on their farm. They are free to not have those things on their farm either, but if they have considered the consequences of not doing the tasks that involve those things and still decide not to have cows/eggs/apples/poop on their farm then that's their choice.

    Typed words mean EVERYTHING when that is all you have to know about a person and frankly I don't want to know more about some of the people that posted in this thread.

    Wow, that seems mighty intolerant of you. Just saying.
  • sonolumina2sonolumina2 Posts: 34
    edited 22.08.2013
    Typed words mean EVERYTHING when that is all you have to know about a person and frankly I don't want to know more about some of the people that posted in this thread.

    @Monica,
    This thread was started because Gwen wanted to voice her concerns over pigs being possibly removed from the game due to conflicting opinions from people on other servers/countries with different religious/ethical views on life. She did not call any of those people derogatory names or made racial remarks; she has the privilege of posting her opinion (of keeping the pigs in the game) as much as you have the privilege of posting to disagree with her opinion.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to backseat-mod. I'm speaking as a fellow forum user. You're not contributing anything productive to the topic at hand as a community member and a forum user. People are responding in such "rude" ways to you (as you perceive them) precisely because of the way you are communicating your objections to the topic. If you disagree, you could have voiced your side in a much more productive manner. Instead you are speaking very condescendingly and then acting all offended afterwards. If this topic bothers you so greatly, you can just report the topic to the mods and request it to be closed that way, can't you? Instead of fighting others and provoking them? No one is forcing you to keep reading this either.

    SO PLEASE, may we all just get back on the topic of "Gwen would like to keep the pigs in the game," unless the Mods see this topic as unfit to continue?
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 22.08.2013
    Everyone take a step back

    Read the opening thread

    Especially the second paragraph
    "This may be a touchy subject, I am gonna try approaching it polite but clear. I hope others will too, so we can discuss this as grownups without moderators having to close it."

    So everyone approach the topic politely and clearly. Discuss the topic as grown ups. Or I will close it. I don't want to do that

    And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved. Put previous comments behind us now and move forward respectfully
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 22.08.2013
    I have deleted some posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Which part of "And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved." was not understood?

    And yes I am being sarcastic

    Debate the topic on hand. Discuss the issues

    Do not discuss individuals
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    then why is my the only post removed?
  • SystemSystem Posts: 106,969
    edited 22.08.2013
    It isn't. I removed all posts made after my post that says
    "And definitely no more discussion on how anyone has behaved."

    Disappointingly :( they all referred to behaviour and not the topic on hand

    If I've missed one after that post please tell me the post number and it will be removed too
  • justme1232justme1232 Posts: 157
    edited 22.08.2013
    Sorry Rhon, I didn't know the rules.

    As for the pigs, I do respect Big Farm for their attempts to be all things to all people. They do try very hard, I do commend them for that. At the same time I believe ultimately doing so could be the downfall of the game. For example as a writer pointed out above, removing pigs because of jews and muslims, would lead to removing cows for those from India. Replacing pigs with horses wouldn't work, because horses aren't Kosher or halel either.

    If it is about removing all things that could be or are offensive then if I state that easter eggs are highly offensive to me (and they are); then you would also need to take my concern into consideration as to treat all groups equally and not cater to a specific group. That being said, I know a lot of people really enjoyed the Easter egg task, therefore I would not want to infringe upon someone else's experience. I feel that it would be selfish of me to imply or demand the game be changed because of my religious preference.

    I'm not encouraging insensitivity, just a live and let live philosophy! ;D 8)
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 22.08.2013
    I too was a bit offended by the Easter eggs--I don't like that some of my religion customs was singled out as part of an event. BUT, They were so pretty though and nicely done that it did not seem important to start a fight about them. I think that was one of the best events GGS has made for this game and I think most players had fun with the event.

    Several times, pigs has been mentioned as offensive to many social groups, yet no word how GGS is going to deal with it. I have hard time accepting that this will continue.
This discussion has been closed.