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Lilly Littlefoot

245

Comments

  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 15.05.2013
    Geez the other thread is locked where we could post the characters saying offensive things--For real. I just started an account to see if anything is different and it is the same nasty people saying the same insulting remarks. I just got to the one that the task is to upgrade more houses and now she is comparing it to 'Christen a calf'. How does one christen a calf? Don't insult my religion!
  • AstragekAstragek Posts: 495
    edited 15.05.2013
    why is all you guys do complain?
    why can't you just enjoy the game and stop acting like everything is racism or ggs is F*'d up or whatever.
    All I see lately is negative comments on the game, if you don't like it, leave it.
    I don't think at all that the characters are racism.
    they're just fantasy, fake, it's a game.
    Every character made will probably have something that 1 person sees as discriminating, racism, offensive or whatever.
    Give the guys/gals from GGS a break, I think they're doing a terrific job, Yes there's things I ain't happy about either, but this is just looking for something to get angry at.
    If ya'll think you can do a better job than GGS, prove yourselves, I challenge ya'll
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 15.05.2013
    Here is a short story--( keep hearing about a store in a few threads and this comes to mind)

    If i go to my local grocery store and notice the milk is expired and take it to the store manager--He is hopefully not going to put a sticker over the date and put it back on the shelf for someone else to buy it. What he does with that spoiled milk will determine what i will do with my money.

    With GGS it is same way--Problems has been noticed and several people have complained and yet unresolved. So sad that the fictional story shows nothing about how the game is played, yet insults people and their culture on a world wide game.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 15.05.2013
    (Random aside: There really have been lots of analogies between GGS and stores lately... why do we think taht this is even an apt analogy??)

    Astragek, if there IS a problem with racism or negative stereotyping, then I don't see why it shouldn't be raised. If people are legitimately worried about this as an issue, then what do you think is going to come out of the discussion? Sunshine and rainbows?

    Given how many players there are, not everyone will like everything. Conversely, there will be things that some people will like more than others. So of course there's bound to be some negativity on the board. But I'd rather have that than some self-censored facade of "everything is so perfect all the time" because when people disagree is when discussions can actually happen.

    (On the "avoiding racial stereotyping" thing, I actually do think I could do a better job given my background, but that's not the point. :P)
  • MenaceDawg1980MenaceDawg1980 Posts: 93
    edited 15.05.2013
    Astragek wrote: »
    why is all you guys do complain?
    why can't you just enjoy the game and stop acting like everything is racism or ggs is F*'d up or whatever.
    All I see lately is negative comments on the game, if you don't like it, leave it.
    I don't think at all that the characters are racism.
    they're just fantasy, fake, it's a game.
    Every character made will probably have something that 1 person sees as discriminating, racism, offensive or whatever.
    Give the guys/gals from GGS a break, I think they're doing a terrific job, Yes there's things I ain't happy about either, but this is just looking for something to get angry at.
    If ya'll think you can do a better job than GGS, prove yourselves, I challenge ya'll

    Why is it all YOU do is complain about the people complaining?
    Why can't you just go back and enjoy the game and stop acting like everyone in this forum needs to praise this game without a fault?
    All I see lately is negative comments from you about other people expressing their concerns. If you don't like what is being said in the forums, you are welcome to leave them.
    The fact that you don't think the characters in this game are stereotypes does not mean everyone else feels the same way and they have a right to express how they feel about them.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 15.05.2013
    i like the characters i like them to stay just as they are
    i have no problem with them whatsoever
  • MenaceDawg1980MenaceDawg1980 Posts: 93
    edited 15.05.2013
    I don't know why I always see toesoup when I look at your name :p
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 15.05.2013
    your not that far off it loosly translates to facesoup
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 15.05.2013
    Hahaha, I see it as "Toestop", like the thing on skates... :P
  • AstragekAstragek Posts: 495
    edited 16.05.2013
    Why is it all YOU do is complain about the people complaining?
    Why can't you just go back and enjoy the game and stop acting like everyone in this forum needs to praise this game without a fault?
    All I see lately is negative comments from you about other people expressing their concerns. If you don't like what is being said in the forums, you are welcome to leave them.
    The fact that you don't think the characters in this game are stereotypes does not mean everyone else feels the same way and they have a right to express how they feel about them.

    that's because it is all you want to see.
    I don't know where you have looked lately, but there's only 3 or 4 posts like this.
    I never said negative comments are a bad thing, but a few people, no names called, all they do is complain. I have yet to see something positive come out of them. They complain about the game, they complain about ggs, they complain about the board mods, they complain about the CM's, if they really don't like it, they should just quit the game.
    I don't mind having a discussion about bad things, but EVERYTHING, and I do mean EVERYTHING in game can be seen as an insult. Does that mean it's racism? No.
    If people see it as racism, I think these people should start by themselves and think: IT IS ONLY A GAME and GGS has no intention to disrespect a certain group of people.
    So it's not fair to say to them that they're a bunch of racists with their stereotypical characters.

    And as for your respond to my comment, you nailed it just right.
    This are discussions, and if you don't like the way discussions turn out, you might as well just leave the forum yourself.
    In a discussion, there will always be people being negative, people being positive, so no matter what, there will always be people like you and people like me :D
    All I do is give my opinion ( except for this post :p), but all you do, is attack me personally (in your last post)
    I don't want any fights or anything, I'm just here for fun, just like everyone else should be having fun instead of starting personal vendetta's.

    Anyhow I gave my opinion, you can accept it, or you can attack me some more, either way, I hope you have a nice day :D
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 16.05.2013
    I just would like to play my peaceful serene farm game and not be harrassed endlessly by the characters handing out the tasks. Make it happen and I might buy gold.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 16.05.2013
    Astragek wrote: »
    All I do is give my opinion ( except for this post :p), but all you do, is attack me personally.

    Oh come now, that's just false. We all know that Menace has other hobbies, like telling people what he thinks about co-ops, gold, modifications to the game, and so on. Plus I hear he likes long walks on the beach and puppies :D
  • kfir4kfir4 Posts: 6
    edited 16.05.2013
    I wonder what makes you think I am angry or negative.
    I am actually very positive - hence assuming the folks at GGS didn't MEAN to use racist stereotypes, and my hope they would get on the task of repairing content that is racist once pointed out.
  • MenaceDawg1980MenaceDawg1980 Posts: 93
    edited 16.05.2013
    jaystarr2 wrote: »
    Oh come now, that's just false. We all know that Menace has other hobbies, like telling people what he thinks about co-ops, gold, modifications to the game, and so on. Plus I hear he likes long walks on the beach and puppies :D

    What?! who told you? That was suppose to be a secret! :p
  • katmajik (US1)katmajik (US1) Posts: 8
    edited 19.05.2013
    I am part Indian and just do not care how Lily is depicted..it does not bother me in the least...I am thinking it is just so she can be recognized as an earth loving person anyhow..her part of the farm just needs a recognizable figure to kinda run the flower part of the farm. I like her!! katmajik
  • fro3fro3 Posts: 42
    edited 19.05.2013
    I can understand how some people might be very offended by this. This could all be solved by simply changing her feather head band into a wreath of flowers. I work with NAGPRA and Native populations and it is the use of feathers as decoration that offends them the most. The feather is a religious symbol to them, much the same as a Christian Crucifix or a Jewish Star of David. I am certain GGS wouldn't use these symbols so it stands to reason that they shouldn't use the feathers, either- particularly since this girl is clearly supposed to be Native American as evidenced not only by the way she looks but also by the things she says.

    So, GGS please consider changing Lily's feather headband into a wreath of flowers. It better fits the theme, anyway.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 19.05.2013
    What about the fact she talks about her ancestral spirits or whatever it was? Monica has a few attachments on page 1 of this topic outlining this. (Also, I think the name of the spirit is fictional; I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse.)
  • Irish30 (US1)Irish30 (US1) Posts: 264
    edited 19.05.2013
    I agree with fro...it seems GGS can come up with any number of ways to create the need to purchase gold with "real money...but find it so very hard to change a few lines of code to replace a feather and band with a band of flowers...but hey...I can't program my microwave to make popcorn...so what the heck do I know. Be safe and God bless.
  • aussiefarmgalaussiefarmgal Posts: 228
    edited 20.05.2013
    When I look at Lily I see a young woman wearing a tshirt with a jacket over it. She has a headband that has a feather. My son's friend wears headbands, and I've see a feather on it before. I have a friend who wears feather earrings. I have a feather necklace. None of it in my opinion is connected to being native American Indian. Lily is not in native American Indian clothing. I know people who wear crucifixes because they like it as jewellery and they are not Christians. That's all I believe this is - a young woman who feels connected to the earth - who knows what her ancestral spirits are? Perhaps Gaia? She could be an environmentalist or a vegan? Perhaps - like me - she is a bird lover? as well as a lover of flowers? Should we presume things that we have no evidence of?
    I choose to accept it in the spirit of how I believe that ggs created this - a fun game with no racist or culturally insensitive undertones.
    In fact, they are careful not to insult particular groups by avoiding the use of meat products from the animals [religious/ethical objections] or alcoholic beverages [religious/ethicial/age inappropriate]. I believe that this is showing sensitivity and I commend them for that.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 20.05.2013
    I don't think it is any one certain thing about this character, but the sum of everything about her. Her tasks are not hard to complete (expensive YES), but not difficult. She is polite--yes she is very pleasant, much more than some of the other characters. BUT the fact that she is member of a made up tribe is strange. I just don't see the need for such a story line about an entirely made up ethnic group.
  • fro3fro3 Posts: 42
    edited 20.05.2013
    I haven't really looked into the things Lilly says because I haven't had time. I was just going off of memory because I remembered that she said things about nature and ancestors and spirits, etc. I will have to look in to it more.

    But before we go any further on this thread, I want to make a point that they are not called Indians or any variation thereof (not American Indians nor Native American Indians). They are referred to as Native Americans by people outside of themselves, as the term "Indian" is largely pejorative. Within their own communities, they are called whatever they call themselves- like Cherokee or Seminole, etc.
  • aussiefarmgalaussiefarmgal Posts: 228
    edited 20.05.2013
    Thank you fro, I meant no disrespect. I almost used the term indigenous Americans. I am happy to know their preferred terminology.
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 20.05.2013
    In fact, they are careful not to insult particular groups by avoiding the use of meat products from the animals [religious/ethical objections] or alcoholic beverages [religious/ethicial/age inappropriate]. I believe that this is showing sensitivity and I commend them for that.

    If you look at the text on the BBQ, it's pretty much about cooking meat products... (just as a counterexample).
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 20.05.2013
    Lilly looks like an indian woman, so what? Benny looks like an Italian, i dont like italians, but i dont complain about that either do i? FFS get a life, ITS A GAME !
  • jaystarr2jaystarr2 Posts: 1,657
    edited 20.05.2013
    Lilly looks like an indian woman, so what? Benny looks like an Italian, i dont like italians, but i dont complain about that either do i? FFS get a life, ITS A GAME !

    If you think people are complaining because they don't like a particular race you have got the point of this topic horribly wrong.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited 20.05.2013
    No i gave an example... Complaining because she looks TOO much like a stereo typical native american (If that already exists)? I would be proud of that... not complain... She likes flowers, good for her :-) again: ITS A GAME!

    Whats next? boycot all western movies because indians look like stereo typical indians, come on... then dont watch it.
  • fro3fro3 Posts: 42
    edited 20.05.2013
    The NATIVE AMERICAN people depicted in modern cinema are quite different than the ones that were depicted in early American Westerns. There is a reason for that!

    Over the past 50+ years, there has been an initiative to improve or remove depictions of Native Americans from popular culture, specifically in their use as sports team mascots and half-time show entertainment. Billions of dollars have been spent removing their religious iconography from university doors and gymnasium floors. They are consulted in the way they are depicted in film.

    The people here are not objecting to a NATIVE AMERICAN character, they are objecting to the way she is being personified, which could be construed as insulting to NATIVE AMERICAN people. Not to Italians, not to people that hate Italians (an ugly thing to say, by the way), but to Native Americans- who often suffer in silence instead of speaking up for themselves because they are outnumbered and feel like they don't have a voice.

    Time would be better spent discussing ways to improve Lilly's character and not bashing other people for having an opinion or twisting around what is being discussed and turning this into something it isn't. If you don't have anything constructive to say, you might consider not following this thread and instead spend your time on another one that would benefit from your input and be a better use of your time.

    My initial impression, to have her feather replaced by a flower was made without my knowing the extent of the language used in her dialogue. I thought if she looked less Native American and more "I Love Flowers" then it would solve the problem, but the problem is quite a bit larger than that because of the things that she says.

    If you don't see the problem with Lilly, then that's okay but please don't try to cover the mouths of those of us that do.
  • EricaJ (US1)EricaJ (US1) Posts: 202
    edited 20.05.2013
    racism

    - a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
    - hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
    - the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others
    - abusive or aggressive behaviour towards members of another race on the basis of such a belief

    Sorry, but I just don't see how the depiction of this character is in any way racist or derogatory. The things she says primarily identify her as someone who practices some form of nature-based spirituality. I know many members of minority groups who would love to see greater positive representation in the media, yet it seems that any content creator who dares to depict anyone outside of the mainstream is likely to come under attack for some perceived slight or offense.

    Perhaps someone can explain just exactly what the problem is....? I quite like the character and find her refreshing.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 20.05.2013
    Then a little research is warranted to find out about a REAL Native American group and ask their permission to use their likeness and traditions. This one is fictionalized and frankly--not very well done.

    As i have stated before, she is pleasant and the tasks are not hard, but her story line is out of place.
  • EricaJ (US1)EricaJ (US1) Posts: 202
    edited 20.05.2013
    Then a little research is warranted to find out about a REAL Native American group and ask their permission to use their likeness and traditions. This one is fictionalized and frankly--not very well done.

    Why should they try to represent some specific group?

    How would they choose which group to represent? Would that not be an offense to groups not chosen?
    As i have stated before, she is pleasant and the tasks are not hard, but her story line is out of place.

    Again - why?

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