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Comments
Like others, I have come to believe the protections aren't worth it (but read on). Here is my view--
- Each item protects you from only 1 of the 5
hazards.
- If you get hit by a hazard, you lose 10% of your
fish.
- You can only get hit by the same hazard once per
trip. Taking this all into account, at
most you could lose 50% of your fish in one trip (but this would be very
unusual).
- The further out you fish, the higher the hazard
rate, with the worst at a 20% chance.
Illustration: A level 5 runabout gets 50 maximum fish. For just one type of hazard at the worst hazard rate, you would lose 1 fish on average (50*20%*10%). If you wanted to protect yourself against this hazard, you would need to give up one slot in the boat, and the boat will now get you 47 fish maximum. I would rather use the slot for crew/equipment, and ultimately get more fish with that slot than the protection device will take up.Now suppose you don't use up all your slots in the boat for crew/equipment because it is more profitable to do so (or some other reason). Do you then fill in with protection? Maybe. A protection device costs $5,000. Average, out of the barn price for 1 fish from the pools is:
- Shellfish: $1233
- Tuna/herring: $2250
- Lobster: $2500
- Swordfish/salmon/cod: $4167
Contract prices would be higher, but varies by contract, so I'm just focusing on barn prices. Would I use protection devices for the level 5 runabout? No, they cost more than the fish I would be saving. How about a level 6 trawler, catching 195 swordfish/salmon/cod (7 Brigette, 3 Roy, 1 Victor)? 195*20%*10%= ~4 fish lost from one hazard at this pool on average. Cost of fish lost (~$16k) vs. cost of protection ($5k) means it would be worth it to toss in a protection device in the open slot in this case. So it becomes a case by case basis on whether to add a protection device to an open slot depending on the boat, hazard rate, type of fish available, the number of fish you expect to catch, and (maybe) price fish you will be fetching from a particular contract you are trying to fill.I understand looking at just the 1 pool that protection is worth it, but getting boats back quicker can lead to more pools emptied in a day. Using equipment takes longer, limiting total pools emptied. I don't see that the cost of equipment to save a few fish is worth losing out on the profit of 8 or so extra pools a day. The overall profit of those 8 pools is usually much larger than the value of the lost fish.
(*NOTE: this is for a player that can be online to harvest boats as they come in - this would not be the same for a player that can only harvest 2-3 times a day)
As for the initial post, I have seen that too, and have always thought it was for the same reason as Rosy posted. The # that is showing in the turbo harvester is the # of fish that boat caught from the pool, but the actual # you will get (that shows in the bubble over the boat), is after some fish were "lost" in the voyage back to the pier.
here you can see that each event can occur at equal percentages:
Method: send lv6 trawler to pools with no protection. If catch is around 180-211, we include the results. Very low catches (partial catches), and unusually high (above 211) are not included. At least 20 trips were collected, losses calculated, then averaged out. Exceptions include very low risk and rare pools (these have been included FYI). Data represents 298 total trips collected over a period of 3 months.
Data: Pool and average loss.
T = Tuna, herring
C = clam, shrimp, oyster
L = lobster
S = swordfish, cod, salmon
E.g. T2 2977
Tuna pool with 2% risk, average loss of $2977.
T2 2,977
C2 3,874
C5 14,300
L5 28,472
T5 2,025
L8 10,556
S8 37,500
T8 17,836
L11 37,567
S11 35,114
L14 46,146
T14 28,215
L17 58,478
S17 63,500
T17 10,714
T20 43,552
Discussion:
Understanding that protection consumes 5 slots for a total of $25000, protection is generally worthwhile on all ships with 11% risk and above, assuming TIME AND TURNOVER ARE NOT IMPORTANT. Partial protection can be included if slots are available.
Outliers include L5, T14, T17, and S8. Several high outlier points were included in L5. I stopped recording data now but generally never provide protection for L5 anyways. If I included more data points I would expect the average should be trending low.
I only have two data points for S8. This is a rare pool. Other uncommon or rare pools include T2 and T17. The tuna pools tend to average out lower than the rest, indicating they may be worth less overall (keep in mind though this data is based on loss, not earnings).
Other very rare pool types may exist. I did not include all theoretically possible pools, only the ones I personally encountered.
As you can see, my recommendation is data-driven, not "theory-crafting." Use it as you wish.
1-They were calculated against the selling price.
2-Typically 6x Roy 6x Brig is the fast loadout. 2x Roy 1x Victor, and Brigs as able is the slow/overnight loadout. No protection was used for data points.
The calculator does not consider protection items (the older versions did not either), but I do see a value to them in certain circumstances, and think I might add a feature to include this.
I only use two types of crews - T.S.(Travel Speed) & F.C.P.H.(Fish Caught Per Hour) with the odd cooler
So much cheaper & quicker = better profit.
Check out the DSF Calculator, which looks at every combination of crew and coolers to determine the optimal combination, depending on the pool, fish type, your boat, and your chosen strategy. Strategies include profit/hour, income/hour, profit/trip, and income/trip. Each has their use, depending on your objectives and playing style.
1-Sleeping more than 4-6 hours which is the turnaround for the deeper spots
2-Vacation
3-Work
4-Wifey time
5-Playing with kids in the park
My analysis understands that faster turnaround is the most cost effective strategy. But if you're trying to preserve fish for the sake of personal mental sanity and special situations such as perhaps FHWE, then my analysis shows how to best use protection.
And using the extended fishing time crew adds a VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF TIME to the voyage, maybe 10-15 minutes but saving thousands of dollars. 1x Victor, 2x Roy loadout or 6x Roy will take in the same amount of fish, but the 6x Roy costs 40k more. Thus, it's useful to combine with protection loadout.
Going along with this, you need to factor in which pools and types of fish are involved. There is no one crew that works across the board. For example, with a level 6 trawler, the DSF Calculator recommends:
- For pool 2 with 105 Oyster, Clam, and Shrimp: under the profit/hour strategy, the boat should have 3 Brigittes and 3 Roys, finishing in 2:20 (2 hours 20 minutes), catching 105 fish; under the profit/trip strategy, the boat should have 1 Victor, finishing in 9:24, catching 101 fish.
- For pool 6 with 400 Tuna and Herring: under the profit/hour strategy, the boat should have 5 Brigittes and 7 Roys, finishing in about 2:18, catching 195; under profit/trip, the boat should have 6 freezers, 3 Roys, and 1 Victor, catching 291
- For pool 10 with (effectively unlimited) Lobster: under profit/hour, the boat should have 6 Brigittes and 6 Roys, finishing in 2:51, catching 195; under profit/trip, the boat should have 8 freezers, 2 Roys, and 2 Victors, finishing in about 14:53, catching 323
- For pool 13 with Swordfish, Salmon, and Cod: under profit/hour, the boat should have 10 Brigittes and 2 Roys, finishing in 2:54, catching 96; under profit/trip, the boat should have 8 freezers, 2 Roys, and 2 Victors, finishing in about 18:23, catching 323
Only going to be gone for 10 hours? Use the time limit feature.More information is available in the calculator. Check it out!
It's ok if no one knows this as I can work it out by observing what happens when the boats are harvested.
If this is known, then it makes the process of knowing whether it is worth it or not very simple. You can just calculate it straight up. And experience with this can most likely make it reasonable to know in many common cases.
I also don't understand why market prices are being used. In reality, a player will use the fishing market for everything except for lobsters. However, the one benefit of just using the market prices is that if you make a profit from that, you will make a profit with using the fishing market.
One problem with this is that most players are not going to want to do these calculations. However, this strategy can only really be used overnight or if you are going to not play for an extremely long period of time or if you are doing something particular with the fishing hard worker event. Then in that situation, it is not that bad to go through this process.
WRT prices, I've used the prices from the barn in the DSF Calculator because they are predictable and known. Yes, I sell my fish through the market contracts, which are a considerably better deal than through the barn, but their value varies from contract to contract (especially considering bonuses), and the calculator can't guess which contracts the player has, and which ones they would ultimately use to sell specific fish to.
I agree, doing the calculations manually would get intimidating and most players won't want to do this. For a boat with 12 slots, there are over 1800 combinations considering the 3 types of crew and storage. If they use the calculator, in most situations they just need to enter the boat (type and level), the pool number, the fish type, and their strategy, and the calculator figures things out for them.
Having one or two set ways to load the boat with crew and equipment each time a boat is sent out is, of course, faster and easier to do than using the calculator, but with a little extra effort, there's more profit to be made with the calculator.
However, as Data King says above, "What ever works for you will be your choice."
What the calculator gives as best profit per hour would not empty the pool, and the one that gives the best profit per trip takes way too long. I prefer to empty pools the quickest possible at the best cost because that opens up a new pool. The more pools I can empty in a day brings a bigger daily profit than looking at the best profit for just 1 boat or just 1 pool. The calculator can give the best profit per trip for just 1 boat at 1 pool, but the ultimate best profit per day is bringing in as many fish as possible and that can be done by emptying more pools
You talk about doing a lot of math & have a complicated spreadsheet. I do not doubt your figures, I just prefer to keep it simple (simple math & simple options of loading the boats). If I overspend a little on who I load the boat with, I more than make up for it with the extra pools I get each day, and the time I save from not making this too complicated. Meaning, by spending a little bit more on loading each boat, my overall profit is improved, and this is a concept that the calculator can not figure.
I think the Dockyard calculator is a great tool to use to HELP figure out how to load a boat, but not to decide for us, it just doesn't have the extra human thought process factors necessary. At any given time during the day, I will load boats differently depending on the time frame I will next be able to harvest them. To make it easier on myself & be able to do the math in my head, I normally do this by limiting the # of Brigittes I use. However, since Brigittes are so inexpensive, often I don't care if the boats come back quicker than I can be available, because sometimes her cost doesn't affect the bottom line a whole heck of a lot.
Each one of your examples above for what the DSF calculator recommends, I actually would load differently than any of the choices given. While the calculator has it's place helping us determine the cost of loading boats different ways and how many fish we will actually catch - - without having to have the pool to play around with it in the game - - it can do only that & show best profit or income based on 1 boat to 1 pool, it can not show best profit or income per pool or per day which is a different concept entirely and what means more to me (best profit overall, not just per boat).
examples
1) For pool 2 with 105 Oyster, Clam, and Shrimp: under the profit/hour strategy, the boat should have 3 Brigittes and 3 Roys, finishing in 2:20 (2 hours 20 minutes), catching 105 fish; under the profit/trip strategy, the boat should have 1 Victor, finishing in 9:24, catching 101 fish.
- - if there are only 105 fish, I would not choose the option to catch only 101 fish & need a 2nd boat for just 4 fish, that would use up a boat that could get more than 4 fish somewhere else. If 1 Roy was added here, the time would go down to 6h51m and it would catch all fish so that 2nd boat can be put to better use somewhere else. The profit after adding 1 Roy would be 88,500 for the trip which is still better than the $79,625 profit from 3 Brig & 3 Roy
(personally I would have chosen the 3 Brig & 3 Roy to empty the pool faster, and even overnight I would have just done 3 Roy with no Brigitte because I find it simpler, but I do admit that 'easier math' cost me about $4,000 on the pool, but for me that $4,000 is worth it for the thought process & math figures it saves me)
2) For pool 6 with 400 Tuna and Herring: under the profit/hour strategy, the boat should have 5 Brigittes and 7 Roys, finishing in about 2:18, catching 195; under profit/trip, the boat should have 6 freezers, 3 Roys, and 1 Victor, catching 291
- - for this one, under profit/hour strategy, 1st off you only need 6 Roy to catch 195 fish. The extra Roys on 2 boats will cost $30k to save just 27 minutes. In addition, after loading 2 boats that way there will be 10 fish left, so a 3rd boat would be needed. If I evened out the loads and did 2 boats with 5Brig+4Roy and 1 boat with 5Brig+3Roy I would save $45,000 cost of loading boats than if I did 2 boats with 5Brig+6Roy and 1 with 5Brig only.
What I mean to show here is that the calculator will show the best price for 1 boat, but not the best for an entire pool - - for that, the human thought process needs to kick in
- - this would be the same thought process for the best profit per trip - -
for the 1 boat it says 6 freezers, 3 Roys, and 1 Victor, catching 291 & taking 10h52m, but there's still 109 fish left in the pool & for that, best profit per trip would be 1 Roy & 1 Victor. The total cost of equipping these 2 boats is $299,200.
However, if you even out the load & catch 211 on the 1st boat & the other 189 on the other, the 1st boat would be loaded with 1 freezer, 2 Roy, 1 Victor - - and the other boat with 2 Roy & 1 Victor. This would take 10h25m (comparable time), but the cost of equipping the 2 boats would only be $143,200 so a savings of $156,000 in catching these 400 fish with best profit/trip.
3) and the same thought process for the next example you gave, pool 10 with (effectively unlimited) Lobster: under profit/hour, the boat should have 6 Brigittes and 6 Roys, finishing in 2:51, catching 195; under profit/trip, the boat should have 8 freezers, 2 Roys, and 2 Victors, finishing in about 14:53, catching 323
- - first, it is not unlimited - I have yet to see this pool even reach 780 fish, in fact it is usually closer to 700
Without an exact # of fish I won't give specifics on loading boats, but for the most part if you can determine if you need 3 or 4 boats to empty the pool, most of the time you'll get a better profit from the pool by spreading the catch out more evenly amongst the boats rather than maxing out 2 or 3 boats and sending 1 for the little bit that remains.
Anyways, I just wanted to use your examples to show a different way of looking at it.
(and of course, to work the FHWE, all of this goes out the window since for that event only the # of fish caught matters, and I do not consider any thought of profit or loss if/when I want to do well at that event)
pool # 6 (just to the left of the sunken ship in the middle of the screen)
It had a total of 374 herring/tuna fish
I would load 2 boats each with 5 Brig & 6 Roys to catch max of 195 fish each, for a cost of $98,125 each ($196,250 total). These 2 boats will catch all fish in the pool in roughly 2h36m. This would be a profit of $681,250 for the entire pool (both boats). After I collect the fish from the boats, a new pool will open up for me to catch more fish.
As long as that next pool is in location 1-11, I have a high likelihood of emptying that pool too, in 2h45m or less.
That would be 2 pools emptied in 5h20m.
Since there are so many possibilities of what the next pool will be, for the sake of having a comparable figure, let's say the next location is identical to this one, so it would also be a profit of $681,250 for the pool.
Using your 'cheaper' method of 2 Roy & 1 Victor to catch 195 fish each, would cost $64,125 each, a savings of $68,000 for the pool. But, the trip would take 5h34m instead, or twice as long. This is good if you won't be back online during that time, but not so good if you can login & resend the boats out because emptying 2 pools in 5-1/2 hrs will yield much more profit than the little bit saved in equipping the boats for just 1 pool.
In this example, $68,000 is saved by equipping the boats with 2 Roy & 1 Victor instead, but $681,250 would be lost by losing the time to empty 1 more pool.
First, I am sorry if I didn't emphasize it enough, but to repeat a comment a made earlier, "I think the Dockyard calculator is a great tool to use to HELP figure out how to load a boat..."
It was so instrumental in helping me figure out how to load boats back when DSF was new. I figured out boat loads based on qty of fish, made myself a chart, then stopped using it daily because I found it faster to use my reference sheet instead of plugging in new #s each time (personal preference). But the Dockyard Calculator was outdated and to have it be more correct again is amazing. THANK YOU soooo much for all the time and work you put into this!!!!!! I have downloaded the new one to play around with new ideas, and sent a link of your post to my co-op.
Thank you for all of your clarifications in your recent post. Based on some previous comments I understood how you used this/loaded boats to be way different. And TY for validating some of my concerns, it now sounds like we are mostly on the same page
I think we agree this DSFCalc is a great tool, that a human touch/thought process is needed in addition to using it not following it blindly, and that emptying the most pools in a day is the overall goal for best profit. I think we disagree somewhat on loading boats - for eg; I believe it's both more time & cost effective to balance the fish evenly between the # of boats needed to empty it - but each of our ideas on DSF have merit and work for us. One of the good aspects of this game is that each person can adapt the different areas to their own play style and time constraints, making various ways the 'right' way.
Thank you again for updating this tool that will help many players figure out their own way.
As for boat loadouts, the final catch numbers are ALWAYS rounded down. I have calculated the available time and catch rate over many situations to learn to hard way the game never rounds up for you.
I think losses are always rounded down. I haven't done thorough looking into this, just what I have noticed by glancing at a few in the past. Of course, GGS has been known to change things without a word, so as always, this could have changed