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Back Ground Check

135

Comments

  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    @ artful (US1)

    :wink: Do you really think an applicant and the leader of his/her co-op that wishes to plant the applicant in a competing co-op - will tell the truth?

    I sure wouldn´t if I were them.


    This is why smart coops don't accept new players before an event such as this. I merely offered it as a suggestion to those who want to know all this information officially, which I don't like. As Farmer John says, a player either works out or they don't. He's got "the boot" and "isn't afraid to use it." LOL!
  • farmerjohn 22 (US1)farmerjohn 22 (US1) US1 Posts: 37,770
    edited 05.04.2019
     He's got "the boot" and "isn't afraid to use it." LOL!
    @artful (US1)   Darn tootin' !      :D
  • ijrosh (US1)ijrosh (US1) US1 Posts: 1,325
    edited 05.04.2019
    I differ a little there farmerjohn 22 (US1). In ways you are right, but I doubt many jump from co-op to co-op. The majority of higher lvled players stay in a co-op. There will always and in everything be a small number that falls between chairs and the question is .... should we concider whats best for the majority or the minority. In other words let the minority rule what we choose in matters like this one?

    Cheers :smile:
    i dont know what it is like on your sever but players are changing all the time here and high level strong players in the last year several have switched and even made several then left them and went or made others on the US sever several switch coops. in the last 2 weeks i have had over 10 leave coops join me leave me and join other ones just in the last 2 weeks i watch a lot of players closely and coops closely and there is always a lot of movement in them either players are sick of playing by someone else rules or they think they can do better on there own or they think they can make a different coop better what ever the reason the US sever has several players that switch coops a lot. right now the number 6 and 7 coop in hard worker were only created last year all those players had to come from somewhere and one of those has a very high turn over rate so the us sever might just be different then yours and when i took the coop i am in over i think 3 years ago there is not 1 person still in it from then but several still play they are just all in different coops now
  • u think (US1)u think (US1) US1 Posts: 39
    Yes, i too have seen a big change around.. with coops on the US server.  Players leaving high demanding coop to start own just for relaxation more so, then to be competitive all the time.  Our own coop, has seen 486 players come through since it started up back in 2013. We have members who been there for 3 or more years.
    Back at the issue of this topic...  There are a handful of players who visit & make comments [ to which i have seen.] on forum, but there are a lot of players that don't come to the forum site.  A lot of good information from repeated players with valid view points.  What of those players in coops who don't see all this information on forum.  Their coops could fall in same situation we had.    With this added feature '' last known coop'' could be an asset.  It is the decision of the Leader or Deputy to contact former Coop Leaders if they wish to.  If this feature was added, i think some will not use it, but some will.
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    At SKN1 there is extremely little co-op jumping. Only around start of VF do we see movement, suddenly more applications for membership. Often of what we guess could be eager-to-please members of a hostile co-op or hmm maybe second accounts due to their medium-low lvls. Thought it would be the same at other servers. Most movement around start of VF.

    After getting burned once we have stopped accepting new members around start of VF. Which is sad tbh because we therebye sort of accuse them (and maybe) wrongfully for being sent by another co-op with the mission to ruin the VF for us. Iiiiif the last co-op they were a member of were added to the application we would have a better way of treating them right. Accept right away or reject. We can mail them and ask what co-op they left, but we can´t really believe what they tell us. Not with the VF about to start.

    That is why I support u think (US1). It would be an asset to get the former co-ops name on the application. It would be on mine as well should I wish to leave my co-op and join another and - it´s OK by me!

    Another point would also be that if the last co-op we are a member of were on the application - it would prevent the co-ops from using "plant a member to ruin the VF" strategy. It would put a stop to it. Ofc there are always ways around stil doing so, but it would mean more hazzle and fewer would bother.

    This is why I keep on pushing for u think (US1)s suggestion. 

    Cheers :wink:

  • Rocky123 (IN1)Rocky123 (IN1) IN1 Posts: 627
    Here in IN server , since there are only a few active players and everyone knows each other well , there is no problem of this lol . If something is fishy , its too easy to find out lol and i have never seen any this kind of planting coop members to spoil VF here , but yes what " u think " gave was a good suggestion .
  • I have been playing this game for awhile .. lately just off and on.  But Oh man, i didn't know there was a Big Farm Forum to write up blogs.  When i started this game, I was a kid.  Still am but not as young as I was.  I was in a few co-ops before branching out on my own thinking i can start my own co-op.  I was here when the game introduce the Village Fair.  I had maybe 10 players on my co-op then.  Because i was fairly green of not knowing, i made 5 players deputies as I thought this was the way of doing it.  Talks were limited - it was so frustrating.  Then having players start challenges and not knowing '' who done it ''  well that was crazy.  I felt I wasn't in control of my co-op. The next Village Fair - names - ''who done it''  was a  blessing.  Again, not knowing the game - learning was slow. My co-op needed players - I would bring in new ones.  The next Village Fair - the new players were starting challenges we couldn't do.  I just got my gourmet farm in - didn't have anything that could help.  All this frustration - having  a co-op wasn't to my liking, so I quit my own co-op.  Now I play on my own.
    Had I known about this Forum and all the good information.  I might still be in my own co-op - still struggling but getting somewhere.
    I think player '' u think '' has something good going here. Having ''Last known co-op" is having a step up from NOT knowing. Us little people/co-ops want good players just like the rest of us. But having the "last known co-op" on player's info is a good thing to have.
    Maybe if it gets added to the game - I might consider starting up another co-op.
  • I have been reading the threads here.. it seems to me those who are making the comments of dislike of the ''last know coop'' on applicants, are all high players who have been here for a long time & might have high level cooperative.  You all should be ashamed of yourselves  as you are only thinking of yourselves. Stop and think of  the Cooperatives that are starting out..and to those low level cooperatives who are struggling at finding good players.  We are the under-dogs of this game, and we deserve to have a say in the matter.  We have a long way to go to reach [your ] high cooperative levels, but having this '' last known coop'' gives us all an advantage, of knowing...a possible good player of knowledge of the game. Or as some say.. a planter.  I have never done a Village Fair.. as my cooperative has no one in it but me at the moment.  My first cooperative  was over run by kids, hitting start buttons.[ a few were deputies ]. kids can be curious ..they hit and run as i call it.  But now i have a new cooperative and want to get it started the right way. Allowing this ''last known coop.'' as a new feature on player's information.. will be good.  
    I just wanted to voice my opinion.. 
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    Well, please don't include lower-level coops who don't want this feature in your comments. We aren't competitive, and we aren't a coop filled with high-level players. No one should be "ashamed of themselves" for voicing their opinions in the forum.
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    Well, hmmm, from what I can see juliette9 (US1) wrote a heartsigh, but objective post. Would think any who read it carefully would realize that and not get offended :wink:

    Pros and cons, points of view make a discussion. Pref a good one.

    Cheers :smile:
  • The point to this thread - is about "Last known Coop'' on a player's application.  Which I believe is a valid request.  It is not requesting any other information but this.  With more & more cooperatives starting up - this added feature would be an asset of knowing - if you opt to pursue it or not.
  • stef7 (US1)stef7 (US1) US1 Posts: 460
    edited 10.04.2019
    I am  in a great Coop.... this past weekend was a trying one for our coop.  Two new players came in, that both were high levels.  Both players were inform of how our coop handles the Village Fair.  We received no feedback from them... so we hope for the best they understood our format how we play the VF.  The 1st player ...dont know if it was just plain stupidity or just stupid.. but put our coop on a 14 hour challenge, causing a shut down.  This player was removed by leader... after that long 14 hour wait, we manage to get in a few VF challenges again.  Until the next onslaught of the 2nd new player ...shutting us down again for 14 hours.... My message here is not about me complaining about the 28 hour shut down... we cope with .  But there should be some sort of back-ground check we can do on high level players applying for a coop.  Meaning, some sort of information that would aid in deciding if player is genuine.  Performance stats, attendance stats..etc.   This would be helpful.  
    Thank you
    u think.
    The day they start doing back ground checks for a game is the day I stop playing.

    THIS IS A GAME NOT REAL LIFE

    If you are the leader of a coop and a new member comes in and you do not like them boot them simple as that. If a game gets to the point we need background checks it is then it is no longer a game. 
     
  • stef7 (US1)stef7 (US1) US1 Posts: 460
    Background checking  is only for playing this game, not your personal information.   In-game stats,   here on forum if you click on a player's name you can see stats on this person.  How many votes, how many badges when they registered., etc.  In-game playing having stats  ( without searching through tunnels to find. ) one button to pull up a page, with .:-  attendance, performance during a challenge [ providing a % ] last co-op played on....   Players who are level 6 ... not an issue...as they have a task to be fulfilled and they are basically learning the game.  Players who are level 25 and up.. who have been on coops. It would be like last farm employment.  So when a player comes into your application lobby of your coop. waiting their fate... Leader/ deputy can go to lobby, click on player, click on In-game stats..   Everything is there. last known Cooperative,  or .a. omg this one is on his 5th coop... possible RED Flag.. maybe. ./.   Some comments made here about players not returning post messages sent out to them.  Yeah i seen that many times, still leaves you in the same place of wondering.  How many players you  going to post message until you get one that will finally response back.../ This new one that dosent speak / type.. i would love to see a banner going across their screen to inform them :: You got Mail...  ( like a Reporting News Station.. with that banner going across the bottom of you screen with more news )... this will grab their attention...  but back to the issue at hand...  last known coop with a date on it. would be nice to know of.
    not needed that is why we have coop leaders. 
  • I have been reading the threads here.. it seems to me those who are making the comments of dislike of the ''last know coop'' on applicants, are all high players who have been here for a long time & might have high level cooperative.  You all should be ashamed of yourselves  as you are only thinking of yourselves. Stop and think of  the Cooperatives that are starting out..and to those low level cooperatives who are struggling at finding good players.  We are the under-dogs of this game, and we deserve to have a say in the matter.  We have a long way to go to reach [your ] high cooperative levels, but having this '' last known coop'' gives us all an advantage, of knowing...a possible good player of knowledge of the game. Or as some say.. a planter.  I have never done a Village Fair.. as my cooperative has no one in it but me at the moment.  My first cooperative  was over run by kids, hitting start buttons.[ a few were deputies ]. kids can be curious ..they hit and run as i call it.  But now i have a new cooperative and want to get it started the right way. Allowing this ''last known coop.'' as a new feature on player's information.. will be good.  
    I just wanted to voice my opinion.. 
    Really?  It is my personal opinion that no-one should be ashamed to hold a view on a game!  That is all this is a game - and there should be no shame for anyone posting their opinion of it/suggestions regarding it etc.
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    I believe juliette9 (US1) corrected her ventilating heartsigh post with this post:

    The point to this thread - is about "Last known Coop'' on a player's application.  Which I believe is a valid request.  It is not requesting any other information but this.  With more & more cooperatives starting up - this added feature would be an asset of knowing - if you opt to pursue it or not.
    As I believe we can all accept that at times we could feel tempted to or even do post ventilating heartsighs here at the forum too. So we take posts like that for what it is, heartsigh, and concentrate on the reason for the post instead. Not get hung up on the heartsigh part. Right?

    Some thoughts do spring to mind from what she writes.
    Because could it be that we are only thinking of ourselves and not the bigger picture?

    hmm could some of those who object actually be the ones using "plant a member to ruin the VF" strategy and fight to be able to keep it?

    Thoughts.

  • my coop is small, but we are growing.  I would like to see this ' last known coop' on application when a player applies.  Then i will know that the player has some acknowledgement of the game.  Finding  good players is hard.  But having this ' last know coop ' added... is an option if the leader wishes to contact former coop.  Not always necessary to do so.. But there is that odd chance you will...   I have a friend who is a leader to another coop and if she has a bad player that she booted off.. She will watch where the player goes.. if player lands into another coop, my friend would contact that leader to give '' heads up ''.  It is out of respect of the game and to fellow players..  Now if the ''last known coop'' was added, and i received a player from another coop...  I might not contact former leader.   But i would have a look at the coop this player came from, to try to figure out why he/she left. Then post message the player as to why they left that coop...  But overall it is a option should we follow it or not.. it is good to have.
  • GrammaLeah (US1)GrammaLeah (US1) US1 Posts: 611
    I can see both sides;
    the new co-op wanting to get good players, and a player leaving a co-op that was a bad fit who might bad-mouth them to the new one.
    -
    I left my long-time co-op and started my own a while back, due to a deputy who started... acting badly, after the leader had health problems and had to leave.
    If anyone had sent her a message she would have given me a very bad report. (Especially as 5 other people later joined me in the new co-op for the same reason.)
    -
    One would need to take the previous co-op's response with a grain of salt.
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    For the new and smaller co-ops I can see how `last known co-op` info could be helpfull more in then sense of understanding that the applicant has knowledge of the game and could be an asset bringing that knowledge to the new/smaller co-op. That would always be a blessing. And much easier to know when seeing it auto added on the application then having to mail and ask.

    For the more established co-ops it would be a great tool around the couple of weeks before the VF starts. Unfortunatelly we have experienced co-ops using the  "plant a member to ruin the VF" strategy. Their aim is to ruin the VF for another competing co-op and by that gain maybe, but hopefully 1st place. Using that strategy ups their chances. And as it is now, they succeed if they manage to get their member accepted at the competing co-op. There is nothing stopping that member from starting a killer 13 hour challenge. And continue doing so unless the leader of the co-op is a hard nail immediately kicking out new members in spite of no real proff. Few leaders are hard nails....

    Another point would also be that if the last co-op we are a member of were on the application - it would prevent the co-ops from using "plant a member to ruin the VF" strategy. It would put a stop to it. Ofc there are always ways around still doing so, but it would mean more hazzle and fewer would bother.

    Sooo with `last known co-op` on applications both the new/smaller and more established co-ops will benefit.

    Mind you `last known co-op` must be put auto on the application and not filled in by the applicant. That would make the info non valid = be of no help.
  • With reading latest blogs.. i agree with Summer ( SKN1).. When you think about it.. when a player gets accepted in a Co-op, the new coop name is automatically  attached to the player's info.   Should a player leave.. then on player's info..should show something like this:  prev. co-op:  * Just a Coop * / .  When the player applies to another Co-op.. it will show prev. coop name. Then when player gets accepted.. the *Just a Coop* turns into the new Co-op name automatically.

    I believe all co-ops can benefit this request of ' last known co-op'.   So now that all this has been said.. Where does this request go to now?  To hopefully get it added to the game...??
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    I took the liberty of asking moderator to move this thread to Suggestions. Hopefully we will find it there in not to long time.

    Cheers :smile:
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    I took the liberty of asking moderator to move this thread to Suggestions. Hopefully we will find it there in not to long time.

    Cheers :smile:
    Presuming they wanted to take it to the next step of making a formal suggestion rather than just discussing the idea first. LOL!
  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    Sorry you look upon it that way artful (US1) By the number of how many that have clicked and read the thread and number of pages with input, I dare say the idea has been discussed. And the discussion is still open. :wink:

    Cheers :smile:


  • Seeker1 (US1)Seeker1 (US1) US1 Posts: 571
    If the game had the proper fail safes and activity chat logs set in place:
    only leaders/deputies can start VF challenges
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a VF challenge
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a co-op project
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts co-op boosters for co-op events: CC, CHWE, etc.
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a village building upgrade
    ...any action that involves starting a co-op related activity should chat log the player who starts it.

    ...then there wouldn't be a need to instill background checks on players trying to join a co-op.



  • u think (US1)u think (US1) US1 Posts: 39
    Thank you all for contributing your opinions to this '' last know coop'' suggestion.  Many pros & cons as it should be in any discussion.  I still believe that it would be good to have this on player's applicants.  

    I am sure there are some Cooperatives out there who had this happen to them.. they would know what it feels like to be shut down for many hours ..and you can not do anything about it ..but wait it out.  But for those Cooperatives who havent had the pleasure of being shut down for many hours .. can not fathom it.  

    Our coop is in the Diamond League.. we were in the 11th in the rankings  of 1st shut down.  By time both players were removed, and the finish of the Village Fair.  Our rankings dropped down to the 30th position.  The 28 hr shut down.. not a good feeling.

    If the ' last know coop ' could get attached to the player's info on applying to any coop ( especially when Village Fair is in play)  who are from another cooperative.  It should raise some ' red flags'...  to cease the accepting.  Without it... it is the chances you take.

    We learned a hard lesson... i get it ..that in future will not accept anyone in coop prior to Village Fair.. but then again, what if the person is the real thing not out to harm, and we turn them away even with a message ..to accept them after the event.  What is it to say that the player in waiting to be accepted, get this kind of message.  Is it fair to them to be put on hold because of an event.  I dont think it is, they will go somewhere else and we would lose a good player.  It is a catch 22 situation.

    The ' last known coop' will benefit everyone.. all coops. 


  • u think (US1)u think (US1) US1 Posts: 39
    If the game had the proper fail safes and activity chat logs set in place:
    only leaders/deputies can start VF challenges
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a VF challenge
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a co-op project
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts co-op boosters for co-op events: CC, CHWE, etc.
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a village building upgrade
    ...any action that involves starting a co-op related activity should chat log the player who starts it.

    ...then there wouldn't be a need to instill background checks on players trying to join a co-op.



    To my understanding... Leader/ Deputies can start a challenge once one is finished..  then there is a 30 minute wait for a member to start... this is where the problem lies.. ( should a new member out to harm a coop, has to wait the 30 mins ) to start a challenge... it will be.  Then by that time a challenge has started.. it is too late to do anything but to remove that player.  I think, new members coming in... that start button should stay grey until the new player has been on a coop for a month.  It wont matter that if the names were on chat on who started it.. the damage is already done.  This is why the ' last known coop' should be on a player's applicant when applying.
  • If the game had the proper fail safes and activity chat logs set in place:
    only leaders/deputies can start VF challenges
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a VF challenge
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a co-op project
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts co-op boosters for co-op events: CC, CHWE, etc.
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a village building upgrade
    ...any action that involves starting a co-op related activity should chat log the player who starts it.

    ...then there wouldn't be a need to instill background checks on players trying to join a co-op.



    To my understanding... Leader/ Deputies can start a challenge once one is finished..  then there is a 30 minute wait for a member to start... this is where the problem lies.. ( should a new member out to harm a coop, has to wait the 30 mins ) to start a challenge... it will be.  Then by that time a challenge has started.. it is too late to do anything but to remove that player.  I think, new members coming in... that start button should stay grey until the new player has been on a coop for a month.  It wont matter that if the names were on chat on who started it.. the damage is already done.  This is why the ' last known coop' should be on a player's applicant when applying.


    good idea, that way they can't go in 1 day before and start a 12 hour challenge, just like it used to be with the village league too.
  • Seeker1 (US1)Seeker1 (US1) US1 Posts: 571
    If the game had the proper fail safes and activity chat logs set in place:
    only leaders/deputies can start VF challenges
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a VF challenge
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a co-op project
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts co-op boosters for co-op events: CC, CHWE, etc.
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a village building upgrade
    ...any action that involves starting a co-op related activity should chat log the player who starts it.

    ...then there wouldn't be a need to instill background checks on players trying to join a co-op.



    To my understanding... Leader/ Deputies can start a challenge once one is finished..  then there is a 30 minute wait for a member to start... this is where the problem lies.. ( should a new member out to harm a coop, has to wait the 30 mins ) to start a challenge... it will be.  Then by that time a challenge has started.. it is too late to do anything but to remove that player.  I think, new members coming in... that start button should stay grey until the new player has been on a coop for a month.  It wont matter that if the names were on chat on who started it.. the damage is already done.  This is why the ' last known coop' should be on a player's applicant when applying.

    Yep I agree. once the damage is done, the chat log will only tell which player did it. yet at least you can boot them from the co-op.   Then no repeat offense would occur.

    With regards to the "last known coop,"  I would have that list extended to "last 5 known coop."   Because a player could be sneaky about it-- just bounce around co-ops and 'play the part' before joining the intended 'mark.'   >:) 

    So in the meantime.. .the leader would have to ask the applicant beforehand, "what co-ops have you play for?"   Then speak with leader/s of those co-ops for references.  A cumbersome job for leaders to deal with, if you ask me.  :/

  • Summer (SKN1)Summer (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 844
    If the game had the proper fail safes and activity chat logs set in place:
    only leaders/deputies can start VF challenges
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a VF challenge
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a co-op project
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts co-op boosters for co-op events: CC, CHWE, etc.
    activity chat log shows which deputy starts a village building upgrade
    ...any action that involves starting a co-op related activity should chat log the player who starts it.

    ...then there wouldn't be a need to instill background checks on players trying to join a co-op.



    To my understanding... Leader/ Deputies can start a challenge once one is finished..  then there is a 30 minute wait for a member to start... this is where the problem lies.. ( should a new member out to harm a coop, has to wait the 30 mins ) to start a challenge... it will be.  Then by that time a challenge has started.. it is too late to do anything but to remove that player.  I think, new members coming in... that start button should stay grey until the new player has been on a coop for a month.  It wont matter that if the names were on chat on who started it.. the damage is already done.  This is why the ' last known coop' should be on a player's applicant when applying.

    Yep I agree. once the damage is done, the chat log will only tell which player did it. yet at least you can boot them from the co-op.   Then no repeat offense would occur.

    With regards to the "last known coop,"  I would have that list extended to "last 5 known coop."   Because a player could be sneaky about it-- just bounce around co-ops and 'play the part' before joining the intended 'mark.'   >:) 

    So in the meantime.. .the leader would have to ask the applicant beforehand, "what co-ops have you play for?"   Then speak with leader/s of those co-ops for references.  A cumbersome job for leaders to deal with, if you ask me.  :/

    Give it a rethink, how many do you think would be interested in bouncing around co-ops just for the hope of getting accepted at a certain competing co-op by the time a VF is about to start? Not forgetting that that player very well could find one of those other co-ops fun to be at and decides to stay = turns his/her back to the co-op that sent him/her bouncing about.

    You are also forgetting this part of the reason why the previous co-ops name is wished for. Copied from my reply posted 13:04.2019 addressing autumnsharon20 (US1) and juliette9 (US1)s inputs :

    For the new and smaller co-ops I can see how `last known co-op` info could be helpfull more in then sense of understanding that the applicant has knowledge of the game and could be an asset bringing that knowledge to the new/smaller co-op. That would always be a blessing. And much easier to know when seeing it auto added on the application then having to mail and ask.

    It would be an asset for all co-ops.

    Cheers  :) 
  • Seeker1 (US1)Seeker1 (US1) US1 Posts: 571
    edited 15.04.2019
    @summer

    LOL....I did say "last known co-op" should be extended "last known 5 co-op."
    Whether that info is used to detect potential harm-doers,
    or be used to determine a players worth/experience to the co-op,
    I agree, knowing an applicant's last-known co-op history is beneficial in both cases.

    I was simply replying to the original poster's incident, where I feel--  just knowing the applicant's "last known co-op" would not be enough to stop a "harm doer" from infiltrating the co-op.

    Joining a co-op is easy...
    Its what regular members are being allowed to do is where is the problem begins:
    ...start VF challenges
    ...and the lack of chat activity not documenting who is starting activities like starting boosters, starting projects. etc.

    Cheers  :)
  • I can not believe a player would do such a thing to a co-op.  I know the game can be highly competitive but not in this manner.  While I read .. u think's post regarding .. "  I think, new members coming in... that start button should stay grey until the new player has been on a coop for a month. ".. Why wasnt this done when the Village Fair was in development.  It would have saved a cooperative progress in the Event.  ( I have never played the Village Fair )  It seems that the event needs to be played - then get revised along the way ( maybe ).  Almost like buying a old car..salesman would say.. if it starts to fall apart let me know.. but no guarantees you get your money back.
    But I looked at this ' last known co-op'  would definitely benefit the new cooperative starting up.
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