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Mismatched Missions - Unfair?

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  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    edited 23.01.2019
    WiseWing said:

    Now  the number of reputation points won is calculated based on your own score + a bonus that depends of total number of scores won by all players in missions and your position. 

    Remember, the reputation points count for CC, not the mission ranking. And the way the reputation points are calculated, you get more RP if matched with a player that collects huge amounts of products (unless you end up in the 6th place where you do not get the bonus).

    I don't think that is correct. I have came 1st in a mission with the same item requested and the same amount 3 times and each time I got the same amount of reputation points, regardless of how much the other players harvested as long as at leach one of them reached the minimum harvest amount.

    We've been asking for years for them to change it, but they aren't going to. What I would love to see is the very top players in a league with only other very top players. They play against each other and no one else. The rest of us would then have a fighting chance, and not just be cannon fodder for the "high rollers."

    I bet gold sales would actually increase because they'd be playing against other high gold users,and they'd have to up their spending to win.
    So if I understand how this will work, the players in the gold league will only play in missions with players in the gold league, the players in the silver league will only play missions against players in the silver league etc.? I think that would create a problem with a lot of solo missions in my opinion so I don't think that would work that well.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • edited 23.01.2019
    WiseWing said:

    Now  the number of reputation points won is calculated based on your own score + a bonus that depends of total number of scores won by all players in missions and your position. 

    Remember, the reputation points count for CC, not the mission ranking. And the way the reputation points are calculated, you get more RP if matched with a player that collects huge amounts of products (unless you end up in the 6th place where you do not get the bonus).

    I don't think that is correct. I have came 1st in a mission with the same item requested and the same amount 3 times and each time I got the same amount of reputation points, regardless of how much the other players harvested as long as at leach one of them reached the minimum harvest amount.

    Well, at least, that is how is system supposed to work. But you are correct. As it is mentioned in the previous posts, the RP counting does not seem to work as intended. We asked the developers if they changed anything and forgot to tell us, but their answer was no. So now they are trying to figure out what is going on. Any data that you can provide (concrete numbers) is welcome and will be given to developers so that they can identify the problem.
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    @Southern (US1) @5-10 Man (AU1) The balancer has agreed with Marowit on how the RP is supposed to be calculated & is ready now to take a look at the data that you have collected, so if you could both post all your info or send it in a PM to CM_Hunter as soon as you can, that would be great. Southern please could you could add to yours the number of players in each mission (excluding any that scored 0), I know that you posted here that it was 6, but if you could also put that on your worksheet. Thanks guys! :)

    I also asked about the mysterious +1.
    Done, in yours (& CM_Hunters) inbox. :)

    Hope it helps. :)

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • Blue Denim (US1)Blue Denim (US1) US1 Posts: 2,542
    edited 23.01.2019
    I mentioned this a very long time ago bout being stuck with people who are way to high in the daily missions, I am only level 80 and Yesterday was stuck with people in the 200's and even 300's, which I do not think is fair at all, but nothing seems to ever be done bout it, I think that it should be All lower levels with same, all Middle levels with same, and all higher levels with same, not all mixed together like the proverbial soup , it has gotten to where I do not even want to do them every day nope. and what is the Top Level anyway, I see people in 200's, 300's 400's ect, but no where do I ever find what the Level Cap is, does anyone know?

  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    WiseWing said:
    Well, at least, that is how is system supposed to work. But you are correct. As it is mentioned in the previous posts, the RP counting does not seem to work as intended. We asked the developers if they changed anything and forgot to tell us, but their answer was no. So now they are trying to figure out what is going on. Any data that you can provide (concrete numbers) is welcome and will be given to developers so that they can identify the problem.
    Okay, thank you. I will try to collect some more information so that we can all have a better idea of how it works.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    edited 24.01.2019
    @WiseWing @WascallyWabbit
    Took a complete break from excel over Christmas. Will collate what data I have and send it in. Have asked others to do the same.

    Whilst there is some concern over the figures as discussed here, to all those who are having negative feelings about the mismatched missions and I did too when I first started playing, I have a suggestion or two:
    • If you're a low level player remember that all of those above you were once in that position. Whether or not they are gold buyers doesn't matter. They have been playing longer than you and have earned the right to have an advantage. Your turn will come. As has been said often in the forum, it is those gold buyers who keep the game free for those who don't buy.
    • Very often, the higher level players shelve on 0 leaving you with a chance to win a mission. Mind you, you would be better off if they scored even a small amount. 
    • Take the time to learn more about missions and work out various strategies. As I said, I used to think it was unfair until I took time to study them. I looked at the higher level players farms and asked myself "what is different about their farms to mine?" The player who just beat me has 5 fields ands I only have 3 - maybe I need to have 5 too! Think about pre-mission preparation, about timing, what resources you have, etc.. Suddenly, I found myself winning missions and often beating those much higher level players. Now, depending on what my overall game strategy is, I don't care about winning but more to getting in as many good missions as I can but very happily accept a good win when it happens.
    • Playing missions is not all about reputation points but more about how they tie in with other aspects of your game. Valuable for your Co-op in the CC's, certificates to help build your Garage Tractors, points toward WWC events. You gain so much more out of them then just winning a mission. Some missions will be "Quality over quantity" whilst other missions will be "Quantity over quality".
    • Work hard towards building the Stackmaster in your garage. One day, it will become your best friend.
    • I now view the high level players as a great challenge and I get a lot of personal gratification out of beating them in closely fought contests. Doesn't always happen, but oh what a feeling. By the same token, there is no pleasure in dumping on lower level players just because you can. I'm guilty of doing that, but there is a reason for it as I mentioned before. CC's, WWC, etc.. When there is nothing to gain and I come up against lower level players in a mission, I will quite often drop just enough product to leave a small challenge and shelve the mission.
    Good luck out there farmers....
    Post edited by 5-10 Man (AU1) on
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    @5-10 Man (AU1)  what you say is true, but it still is not fair for low level players to have to go against high level players and non golders against golders, If they had the formula as they said they did, then it would be all good, very disheartening when you are a low level player and you see players level 400 or higher against you, what chance do you have.  You also know you are coming last and not going to get many rp, just giving the HIGHER level MORE RP because you are there.  My advice to low level players as soon as you see unfair mission do 0 this will drop the RP of the high level players.  The more low level players that do this then the high level players will start complaining also they are not getting as many RP any more due to low level players ALWAYS doing 0.  In summary if you know you can't win do 0, you might lose 400 RP but the top players will lose a LOT more

    formula should be player 1 (P1) score + P2 + P3 + P4 + P5 + P6 / 6 then formula added depending on your place. 
    P1x100%
    P2x80%
    P3x70%  etc can't remember the exact %age given to us on post

    This is how being against high level players would effect your RP received.  This is NOT the case as we have been told for a long time
     @WascallyWabbit @WiseWing @CM_Hunter


  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    @5-10 Man (AU1)  what you say is true, but it still is not fair for low level players to have to go against high level players and non golders against golders, If they had the formula as they said they did, then it would be all good, very disheartening when you are a low level player and you see players level 400 or higher against you, what chance do you have.  You also know you are coming last and not going to get many rp, just giving the higher level more RP because you are there.


    From my testing, it doesn't seem to matter if you're there or not - the number of players in the Mission has ZERO effect on how much RP is generated.  The only thing that matters is how much you harvested, and what place you came in.

    Take the following dataset as an example:



    When I came in 1st place, I received the exact same amount of Base RP & Certificates, regardless of how many players were in the mission. (Bonuses varied on whether or not it was during a CC, as I could only do the 25% Personal & Co-Op Bonuses during a CC, and whether or not I got the 10% bonus for starting a mission within 3 minutes of the last one).

    And when I came in 2nd place, it didn't matter how many players were in the mission, nor did it matter how much "1st place" harvested - I received the exact same amount of RP & Certificates, regardless.

    This is just a portion of the dataset, of course - I have data from all different types of missions, but they all look pretty much the same as the above; only the Harvest Type of the Missions change; dung, feed, pigs, corn, etc.  No matter where I placed in the mission, and no matter how many participants, the Base RP and Certificates remain exactly the same based on the amount harvested and where I ranked (2nd, 3rd, etc.).

    The team has the data, so hopefully they'll be able to track down the problem and get it corrected to the way it's *supposed* to work. :)

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    Another example that shows more clearly that # of players doesn't matter:


    Even when I came in "Last Place" (3rd, but there was only 3 participants), I scored the exact same RP & Certificates as when I came in 3rd place when there were *5* participants. And again, how much First Place harvested didn't have any effect, either.

    But I'm confident that now that the team knows there's a problem with the calculations, they'll be able to track it down and correct it. :)

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    Another example that shows more clearly that # of players doesn't matter:


    Even when I came in "Last Place" (3rd, but there was only 3 participants), I scored the exact same RP & Certificates as when I came in 3rd place when there were *5* participants. And again, how much First Place harvested didn't have any effect, either.

    But I'm confident that now that the team knows there's a problem with the calculations, they'll be able to track it down and correct it. :)
    Since you harvested a reasonably low amount, is it possible that the other two players that finished below you did not harvest enough to reach the minimum activity amount? If that happened, then you would have been treated as finishing in last place for both of them and that could explain why you received the same amount for both missions.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    @Southern (US1)  then it is even worse that  I thought that number in mission makes 0 difference.  Oh boy the numbers people have huge error they have been covering up.  We had been under impression something like my formula, where depending on what others do effects our RP.  I think they need to employ someone better with maths to do their calculations.  Time and time again, we find errors with their maths, I am presuming it is maths error, either that or they just keep on giving us lies until we find and prove the lie.  I prefer to think it is just poor maths.

    I myself do very few mission, but I do see the problem and agree with  low level players complaint.

  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    Another example that shows more clearly that # of players doesn't matter:


    Even when I came in "Last Place" (3rd, but there was only 3 participants), I scored the exact same RP & Certificates as when I came in 3rd place when there were *5* participants. And again, how much First Place harvested didn't have any effect, either.

    But I'm confident that now that the team knows there's a problem with the calculations, they'll be able to track it down and correct it. :)
    Since you harvested a reasonably low amount, is it possible that the other two players that finished below you did not harvest enough to reach the minimum activity amount? If that happened, then you would have been treated as finishing in last place for both of them and that could explain why you received the same amount for both missions.
    No, when I say "Participants", that means they harvested enough to show up on the board (greater then 0 amount).  There might have been 6 players in both of those missions, but unless they harvested more than 0 and showed up in the mission results, I didn't count them. Pigs usually have a pretty low shelving amount as well, my shelving amount for pigs is around 280. So I harvest one full pigsty, shelve, and move on to the next mission, since I know I'm never going to win a pig mission with only 3 pigstys. :)  It doesn't take much to reach the minimum activity amount.

    This is only one example, as well. I have many data points that back up the hypothesis that it doesn't matter how many are in the mission; in the example of the Wildflower missions above, 4 players, 5 players, 6 players - it didn't matter; RP & Certificates remained constant. If Marowit's formulas were in effect, there should be SOME variance in the numbers, but there's not. They're completely constant.

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    ahh!! so back to my original thought for low level players if they can't win due to unfair mission do 0.  It will affect high players more than them.  I do a lot of missions with 0 harvest.

    Yes they should never have the same amount if other are effecting RP, as no way every mission will give same total amount of item harvested, for total of those competing.  If they want it to be fair like they said it was they need to use a formula like mine where other player harvest will effect the RP given as they said it does.

  • ijrosh (US1)ijrosh (US1) US1 Posts: 1,325
    ahh!! so back to my original thought for low level players if they can't win due to unfair mission do 0.  It will affect high players more than them.  I do a lot of missions with 0 harvest.
    i am sorry but i guess i must have misunderstood someone because what southern and a couple other are saying is it does not matter how many are in a mission and does not matter how much everyone collects as a whole so how would low level players hurt anyone but them selves?i mean if them getting 0 and not counting in the mission does not matter and them not collecting as if they had to raise the over all amount collected does not matter then how does them scoring 0 hurt anyone but them? i mean if they come in last and can only collect a little they would still get some certificates so you are just telling them to hurt them selves or am i missing something?and of course i say this from ho people are saying it is actually working and not supposed to work
    ijrosh @ us 1
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    @ijrosh (US1) on @Southern (US1) last post, he did say that 0 were not counted,  I myself now not sure if 0 harvest count or effect others scores , I still do a lot of 0 missions anyway.  I do know for a fact that mission RP calculation is not what they have been saying for long time and it is not fair on low level players in mismatch missions.

    With my formula, low level players would be hoping to be in mission with high level players and high level players would be hoping only to have other high level players in with them.  It should be average of the players who have SCORE points and then formula put to the placings

    Also doing 0 then would be very silly

  • ijrosh (US1)ijrosh (US1) US1 Posts: 1,325
    @ijrosh (US1) on @Southern (US1) last post, he did say that 0 were not counted,  I myself now not sure if 0 harvest count or effect others scores , I still do a lot of 0 missions anyway.  I do know for a fact that mission RP calculation is not what they have been saying for long time and it is not fair on low level players in mismatch missions.

    With my formula, low level players would be hoping to be in mission with high level players and high level players would be hoping only to have other high level players in with them.  It should be average of the players who have SCORE points and then formula put to the placings

    Also doing 0 then would be very silly
    right but southeren also said that it did not matter if there were 3,4,or 5 players that got qualifying scores that they still scored the same so the way i am understanding that is the first person will make the same weather the other five people score 0 or not it would not matter to them so maybe i am misunderstanding and i agree with you everyone should feel like they are being rewarded for doing missions weather they win or not that should just be a slight plus
    ijrosh @ us 1
  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    No, when I say "Participants", that means they harvested enough to show up on the board (greater then 0 amount).  There might have been 6 players in both of those missions, but unless they harvested more than 0 and showed up in the mission results, I didn't count them. Pigs usually have a pretty low shelving amount as well, my shelving amount for pigs is around 280. So I harvest one full pigsty, shelve, and move on to the next mission, since I know I'm never going to win a pig mission with only 3 pigstys. :)  It doesn't take much to reach the minimum activity amount.

    This is only one example, as well. I have many data points that back up the hypothesis that it doesn't matter how many are in the mission; in the example of the Wildflower missions above, 4 players, 5 players, 6 players - it didn't matter; RP & Certificates remained constant. If Marowit's formulas were in effect, there should be SOME variance in the numbers, but there's not. They're completely constant.
    But there are a lot of situations where players harvest more than 0 and they don't reach the minimum activity amount. For example, the other day I was in an alfalfa mission and I was at 1st place with over 10,000 alfalfa. 2nd place only had 30 alfalfa and the other 4 players didn't harvest anything. But the amount 2nd place harvested wasn't enough to count as being active so I was treated as if I was by myself.

    Ok. That is good to know that there is a lot of other proof for this. I have been starting to collect information as well, but it will take me a while to get enough to make any conclusions.

    ahh!! so back to my original thought for low level players if they can't win due to unfair mission do 0.  It will affect high players more than them.  I do a lot of missions with 0 harvest.

    Yes they should never have the same amount if other are effecting RP, as no way every mission will give same total amount of item harvested, for total of those competing.  If they want it to be fair like they said it was they need to use a formula like mine where other player harvest will effect the RP given as they said it does.
    Maybe what they could do is group players by their total reputation point amount, so that they should hopefully play against players that would get similar amounts in missions. But I don't think that it is possible to always avoid missions that have higher level and lower level players since sometimes I end up waiting 5 minutes for a mission and I end up in a 2 or 3 player mission. I don't think that it's good in those scenarios, for example, for me to shelve with nothing and then they end up getting very few reputation points.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    @ninjahuman (AU1)  I never said to have players of same level against each other, that comes back to old problem of solo missions.  They need to average the total amount of product harvested and then apply formula to that depending on placing, as per post by Mods.  Then it does not matter if a low level player is against high level, then they will get more RP than if against low level players as we were told was happening.

  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    @ninjahuman (AU1)  I never said to have players of same level against each other, that comes back to old problem of solo missions.  They need to average the total amount of product harvested and then apply formula to that depending on placing, as per post by Mods.  Then it does not matter if a low level player is against high level, then they will get more RP than if against low level players as we were told was happening.
    Yes, I understand that you never said that, but more often than not it does greatly affect the outcome of the missions due to the limited development that a farm can have. Of course, there are exceptions such as when I came 2nd with about 16.5k alfalfa to a level 59 player. I think that your suggestion is a bit better since it avoids the issue of the solo missions. One thing I would like to ask is with that change, would everyone receive a bonus from everyone else's score, including the higher ranks receiving a bonus from the lower ranks' scores?
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • Dark Underworld (AU1)Dark Underworld (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,887
    edited 24.01.2019
    @ninjahuman (AU1)the other way they could do it is not average scores, but add together and divide by 2, then apply formula to that number for placing, this would be better for higher level players.  The more players that harvest minimum, the better for everyone

  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    @ninjahuman (AU1)the other way they could do it is not average scores, but add together and divide by 2, then apply formula to that number for placing, this would be better for higher level players.  The more players that harvest minimum, the better for everyone
    Yes. That way would also be quite good and it would encourage players to try and harvest for extra points. At the moment, there is not really any incentive for lower level players to do missions when they get put against players like me.







    The screenshots above are an example of what is happening in my missions at the moment. In each mission, I only harvested half of my duck coops and I got over 100k reputation points from both missions combined, but I imagine that most of those lower level players would be stuck in that mission for half an hour without a good chance to try and get a good ranking in the mission while receiving a low amount of reputation points for their effort.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • Bufo (AU1)Bufo (AU1) AU1 Posts: 167
    edited 25.01.2019

    From my testing, it doesn't seem to matter if you're there or not - the number of players in the Mission has ZERO effect on how much RP is generated.  The only thing that matters is how much you harvested, and what place you came in.

    Take the following dataset as an example:



    When I came in 1st place, I received the exact same amount of Base RP & Certificates, regardless of how many players were in the mission. (Bonuses varied on whether or not it was during a CC, as I could only do the 25% Personal & Co-Op Bonuses during a CC, and whether or not I got the 10% bonus for starting a mission within 3 minutes of the last one).

    @Southern (US1)

    I got the same results when I collected statistics a couple of years ago.
    The sole exception is if you are the only active participant in the mission, the RP is calculated as if you got 3rd place.

    @Byron Longford (AU1)

    Producing 0 in a mission only works as long as everybody but the winner does the same. If a 2nd player in the mission produces the minimum quantity, sitting the mission out will not affect the winners RP.
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    @ninjahuman (AU1)

    You are a cruel person inflicting all those eggs on lower levels....

    Got to give Goodbobby a lot of credit for getting what he got. Probably cost him some purple. Hope you sparkled his farm!!! 
    :):):)
  • everythings got a bug in this game and is pointless to try to do anything about asking ggs to fix them because when we do they just turn out more events and specials farm like the deco valley that just bring more bugs and are a waste of time.


    Made by Jonquille6 (FR1)
  • Puppet (US1)Puppet (US1) US1 Posts: 4
    edited 25.01.2019
    Why not pair players by their reputation points instead of levels.  Placing a Player with 70,000,000 reputation point with a player of 4,000,000 reputation points is ridicules.  No one want to play mission when they have no chance of placing at least 2nd.   
  • ijrosh (US1)ijrosh (US1) US1 Posts: 1,325
    you realize there are only 14 people on the US sever that have 70mil in reputation points?i get your point but you used really high numbers in your example i am sure there are more 4milish reputation point players playing against 1mil or less reputation points and i am not sure that would work out the way people want it to either i have around 1mil myself i think but in the last 4 missions i actually actively played in i came in first by a lot because i should be more like a 5mil or more reputation person but sense they changed the prizes last April or whatever i have not played the CC much so again the reputation does not mean much other then if they play a lot of missions or not so the people that have taken a break or only do one or two a day are still going to completely demolish players if there farm is right even if they only ave a repetition of 300 or whatever because they only do a mission a day to get the daily task so far i like byron longford concept the best i mean low level players would still probably come in last but that way they have more incentive to play
    ijrosh @ us 1
  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    edited 25.01.2019
    @ninjahuman (AU1)

    You are a cruel person inflicting all those eggs on lower levels....

    Got to give Goodbobby a lot of credit for getting what he got. Probably cost him some purple. Hope you sparkled his farm!!! 
    :):):)
    I'm sorry if it appears to be cruel. I usually end up against them though and it is a waste not to harvest them to help my cooperative get some extra reputation points.

    Oh, I see. I didn't know that they only have 2 duck coops, which does mean that they probably used some seaweed feed as you mentioned. Unfortunately I didn't know that and I didn't gift their farm. But I usually do when I am against someone in a 2 player mission.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    @ninjahuman (AU1)

    Hehe... I did say it tongue in cheek in reference to my earlier rant and I will often gift some sparkles if they are the right level. If not, I try and send a quick message wishing them luck in the game.  :):):)

    By the way, thanks for all your postings on things like the Viking Farm. Very helpful information. GGS really should collate all the good information and put it in a section that is easy for people to find and utilise.
  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,250
    @ninjahuman (AU1)

    Hehe... I did say it tongue in cheek in reference to my earlier rant and I will often gift some sparkles if they are the right level. If not, I try and send a quick message wishing them luck in the game.  :):):)

    By the way, thanks for all your postings on things like the Viking Farm. Very helpful information. GGS really should collate all the good information and put it in a section that is easy for people to find and utilise.
    Sometimes I like to do that as well, but I haven't done it as much recently with all of the events going on.

    You're welcome. I have been working on trying to get a large amount of helpful information into one place, but I haven't added that much yet. I think that it would be good to work on a guide like that for the candy farm as well but I haven't had enough time to make one this time.

    I am also happy to try to help you with any other events or anything else if you have any questions about them.
    ninjahuman @ au 1
  • Blue Denim (US1)Blue Denim (US1) US1 Posts: 2,542
    edited 25.01.2019
     WascallyWabbit  ,                                                                                                                                                                                Can you please tell Me what the Cap Level is for the Big Farm game? , I asked earlier but did not get a answer as of yet, I also am not in any Co-op, so I am a lower level like others I imagine  going against Higher levels that either are not in the Co-ops or are , either way I do not think being in a Co-op or not is the problem, I think it is what Level you are that should be the consideration on who you go up against, it makes no sense to Me to have a level 80 like Myself go up again Level 450, what is the point of even trying to do that?, it is just lame in My book, the whole Daily Mission should be redone in My opinion.
    Post edited by Blue Denim (US1) on

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