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Mismatched Missions - Unfair?

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  • wasn't really sure where to post this, but I think the missions needs to be "reworked!" don't see how it's fair that at lvl 22 I find myself competing against lvl 100 - 300 players and expect to do well. make it a more level playing field please..
  • wasn't really sure where to post this, but I think the missions needs to be "reworked!" don't see how it's fair that at lvl 22 I find myself competing against lvl 100 - 300 players and expect to do well. make it a more level playing field please..
    @farmboy52 (US1) As you can see from the previous posts, this gets asked quite often. - The thing to remember with missions is that the goal is to win as many RP and certificates as possible & the amount of those in a mission is determined by the scores of the players involved. So if you were in a mission of lots of low level players, you may well come 1st, but the scores would all be low and your winnings would be too. You are much better off being in a mission against high scoring players & then, provided that you do not come last, your share of the winnings will be higher than in the 1st example. You just need to beat the lowest scoring opponent (zero scores do not count).
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    edited 14.10.2018
    Every time I win a milk mission with 15,680 milk, combined with my 70% reputation point boost from the level 7 multifarmer I will receive 54,065 reputation points for the mission, regardless of how much milk the other players harvest in the mission. So it appears that the information that we have been given about how the other player's score in the mission affect the amount of reputation points I receive is at least partially incorrect.

    @ninjahuman (AU1)

    6 players = 100% - 90% - 80% - 20% - 10% - 0%

    The 1st place player (You, in this case), sets the bar. If you come in 1st place, you get the maximum amount of (BASE) RP for the mission (100%).  Whomever is 2nd gets 90% of what YOU get. 3rd place gets 80% of what YOU get (or maybe it's 80% of what 2nd place gets, I'm not entirely sure on that one).  etc., etc., all the way down to 6th place.

    So the way I understand it, if you come in 1st place with say, 50,000 (BASE) RP, 2nd place will always get 45,000 (BASE) RP regardless of how many crops they harvest.

    And of course everyone's BASE RP is then affected by boosters, tractors, bonuses, etc. It's entirely possible for 2nd place to get more RP than *1st* place in the end, if 2nd place has better boosters. :)

    So because you "set the bar", the more points YOU get (as the 1st place winner), everyone else gets more points because it's based on the (1st place winners) total RP.  If you continually harvest the same amounts, you'll always get the same amount of (Base) RP as long as you're in first place.  But if you harvest more (or less), but still come in 1st place, then you not only affect the amount of RP you get, but the amount of RP that everyone *under* you gets. 

    At least that's the way I understand it.

    Post edited by Southern (US1) on
  • Uncle John (GB1)Uncle John (GB1) GB1 Posts: 11,004
    Every time I win a milk mission with 15,680 milk, combined with my 70% reputation point boost from the level 7 multifarmer I will receive 54,065 reputation points for the mission, regardless of how much milk the other players harvest in the mission. So it appears that the information that we have been given about how the other player's score in the mission affect the amount of reputation points I receive is at least partially incorrect.
    @ninjahuman (AU1)
    Wabbits original response says - "Each player in a mission gets RP based on their own score & then, in addition, each (except the one in last place) also gets a % of the total RP earned by all the players."
    How much other players harvest must affect the RP they earn and therefor should certainly affect "
    the total RP earned by all the players"
    Very odd.
  • very odd and very complicated, can't ggs make it so your score is proportional to the amount of what harvest you get, and maybe you could match the players a bit better, not asking to the level because that would be hard and take ages but don't put level 500s against lvl 80's : B)
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    KarenKay (US1) Do you know if anything has changed in regard to these figures? One player in my co-op has been recording all his wins and says he isn't getting anything like that.

  • Do you know if anything has changed in regard to these figures? One player in my co-op has been recording all his wins and says he isn't getting anything like that.

    @5-10 Man (AU1) We haven't been told if they have made any changes, but I will ask if it can be checked, the numbers guys are usually very busy, so can't guarantee a quick answer. :)
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    @WascallyWabbit - Thank you very much...
  • I am a level 76 player and have to compete against higher level players  that are way far ahead in the game lvl 200- 400. That does not seem fair at all. Why not have CC on levels of a 100 ??????
  • edited 17.12.2018
    I am a level 76 player and have to compete against higher level players  that are way far ahead in the game lvl 200- 400. That does not seem fair at all. Why not have CC on levels of a 100 ??????
    I moved your post in this thread as there was a really long discussion according this issue. At first, the missions were indeed matched with the same level players, but that resulted in large number of solo missions and the rule was changed. Now, a low level player can match a high level player, but the calculation of reputation points is such, that the low level player has an advantage that way. Namely, what matters is the number of reputation points that you gather, not the rank in a single mission. And the system is made so, that you will get more RP if you come second or third in a mission with the high level player that collected a lot of products, than if you come first in a group with a small level players. See posts above for more explanation on how system works.
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    edited 18.12.2018
    @WiseWing @WascallyWabbit
    WiseWing said:

    I moved your post in this thread as there was a really long discussion according this issue. At first, the missions were indeed matched with the same level players, but that resulted in large number of solo missions and the rule was changed. Now, a low level player can match a high level player, but the calculation of reputation points is such, that the low level player has an advantage that way. Namely, what matters is the number of reputation points that you gather, not the rank in a single mission. And the system is made so, that you will get more RP if you come second or third in a mission with the high level player that collected a lot of products, than if you come first in a group with a small level players. See posts above for more explanation on how system works.

    I know that's what Marowit told use a long time ago, but I do believe something has changed.

    Based on @5-10 Man (AU1)'s assertion that one of his Co-Op members had been tracking his wins and not seeing the expected behaviour, I decided to do the same.  The data I've collected over multiple missions does indicate that it doesn't matter how much is collected by other people in the mission, the amount of RP & Certs you receive is based *entirely* on how much YOU collect and where YOU place in the mission.

    See my sample data set:



    This is a sampling of some missions that I've grouped together by the amount of Corn, Eggs, Milk, Pigs & Wildflowers produced during the mission, where I *placed* in the mission, and how much RP I received.  The overall RP varies a little, based on whether I qualified for the 10% Bonus or not, but you can see the by the "Base RP" column that the Base RP's match exactly, and was based solely on how much I harvested and where I ranked. RP Bonus includes a 20% Co-Op Booster, 25% Personal Booster, and sometimes a 10% "3-minute from last mission" booster.

    If you take the 4 WildFlower missions for instance, where I have 4 missions with 26,544 Wildflowers Harvested and winning 2nd place each time, the amount of  Base RP & certs match exactly - regardless of how many Wildflowers "1st Place" produced. There's a slight variation on Total RP based on whether I received the 10% bonus for stating a mission within 3 minutes, except for the last one, where I *ONLY* had the 20% Co-Op Booster Running. Oops. Forgot to start the Personal one. hehe. Same for the other missions - it doesn't matter how much the other "ranks" in the mission harvested, I received the exact same Base RP and Certs for *where I placed in the mission and how much I harvested*. 

    Corn, eggs, pigs, and first two 2nd place finishes for Wildflowers are good example of those - every number matches exactly, except for how much "1st place" harvested. If Marowit's formula was coming into play, those numbers should have SOME variance basd on the 1st place harvest numbers, but they do not.

    And when I win 1st place in Wildflowers, well, you can see the difference - an increase of almost 16,000 Base RP (or more, depending on your tractor bonus, Co-Op & Personal Boosters, 10% 3-minute bonus, etc; a difference of 33,000 RP, in my case). That tells me the most important thing in a mission is where you place, followed by how much you harvest, and the amount of harvest by other players is irrelevant.

    I too would very much like this looked into by "The Number Guys" (or gals, whatever the case may be) :)
    Post edited by Southern (US1) on
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    @Southern (US1) - Great work mate. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.
  • @Southern (US1) Thanks very much for your numbers, if you do more, could you also include how many players were in the mission, just for the sake of full data, but looking at the numbers you have there & assuming there were diff numbers of players, the amounts should have varied, in places that they haven`t, based on Marowit's formula.

    @5-10 Man (AU1) If you could post your numbers too, that would be great, the more data the better. :)
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    @Southern (US1) Thanks very much for your numbers, if you do more, could you also include how many players were in the mission, just for the sake of full data, but looking at the numbers you have there & assuming there were diff numbers of players, the amounts should have varied, in places that they haven`t, based on Marowit's formula.

    @5-10 Man (AU1) If you could post your numbers too, that would be great, the more data the better. :)
    All my missions have 6 players. :)


  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    Still collecting data, and ran across a weird mission result:



    *1 Bonus Point*?  Where'd THAT come from?

    There's no CC running, so the only bonus I have active is the 70% Tractor.. Yet somehow I got 1 bonus point (Total of 6,012 RP for the mission).

    So far all my (additional) data is still reflecting my hypothesis above; RP is not affected by other players in the mission. (78 data points & climbing).
  • JVD (US1)JVD (US1) US1 Posts: 2,784
    Still collecting data, and ran across a weird mission result:



    *1 Bonus Point*?  Where'd THAT come from?

    There's no CC running, so the only bonus I have active is the 70% Tractor.. Yet somehow I got 1 bonus point (Total of 6,012 RP for the mission).

    So far all my (additional) data is still reflecting my hypothesis above; RP is not affected by other players in the mission. (78 data points & climbing).
    could that be from the 10% bonus you get for running missions back  to back?
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    JVD (US1) said:
    Still collecting data, and ran across a weird mission result:



    *1 Bonus Point*?  Where'd THAT come from?

    There's no CC running, so the only bonus I have active is the 70% Tractor.. Yet somehow I got 1 bonus point (Total of 6,012 RP for the mission).

    So far all my (additional) data is still reflecting my hypothesis above; RP is not affected by other players in the mission. (78 data points & climbing).
    could that be from the 10% bonus you get for running missions back  to back?

    @JVD (US1) - No, that would have been 354 points (3,536 * 10%). 1 point is just weird. :)
  • JVD (US1)JVD (US1) US1 Posts: 2,784
    ahhh, gotcha! yep, a strange one! LOL
  • 5-10 Man (AU1)5-10 Man (AU1) AU1 Posts: 249
    I'm not doing anything with data other than collecting, until the new year, but just quickly checked the last 24 hours and have got that +1 bonus 3 times.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year all, especially to you @WascallyWabbit. You have done a tremendous job and I hope GGS put something better than a +1 bonus in your stocking. :):):)
  • @WascallyWabbit

     You can count me in an the stat keeping, I'm good with numbers.

    Also want to keep records on the HWE and CHWE events, the rewards there are way to far out of reach for ANY player. I've often been in the top 50 but only ever reach 30 or 31 on the hard work rewards.

    Which thread should I post them in?

  • edited 20.12.2018
    Southern (US1) said:
    All my missions have 6 players. :)
    @Southern (US1)  Thankyou, that certainly makes comparisons very straightforward :)

    I'm not doing anything with data other than collecting, until the new year, but just quickly checked the last 24 hours and have got that +1 bonus 3 times.

    Merry Christmas and Happy New Year all, especially to you @WascallyWabbit. You have done a tremendous job and I hope GGS put something better than a +1 bonus in your stocking. :):):)
    @5-10 Man (AU1)  A very Merry Christmas to you too & thankyou! 
    Our job is made so much easier by having, in my totally biased opinion, the best BF Community, we can always rely on you guys to find every conceivable angle to poke an issue from & though it may not always be apparent, right away, that really does help towards improving the game. - +1 bonus points all round! :)

    I will see if anyone knows what they are all about, I agree they are very strange.

    @WascallyWabbit

     You can count me in an the stat keeping, I'm good with numbers.

    Also want to keep records on the HWE and CHWE events, the rewards there are way to far out of reach for ANY player. I've often been in the top 50 but only ever reach 30 or 31 on the hard work rewards.

    Which thread should I post them in?

    @farmgirlmimi43 (US1) We have asked several times if those numbers are intentional or if someone spilled their coffee on their abacus when they were putting them in, I think last time I checked, we would need to be on something like 92 points per second for every second of the event, to reach that last reward & personally I cannot see how that is possible, but I admit I am terrible at that event, so it would still be impossible for me if required half that amount lol  I will try asking again & make sure that it is on Hunter's list for things to be pushed in the new year.



    I don't think that we have a specific thread for data on the HWEs, so feel free to start one, making it clear in the title what it is for or it will drift into being another general discussion about the event(s). We do have this thread about the rewards if that is what you were looking for Rewards for CC & HWE - WTH?
  • i love playing big farm but i don;t think it's fair competing against someone way too high in missions. it's not a challenge! let's make it fair please. i see more it often in CC and it's not fair.
  • Yend (US1)Yend (US1) US1 Posts: 21
    edited 26.01.2019
    I am now having to play against players with 50,000,000 to 70,000,000 reputation points when I am only at 4,000,000 reputation points.  Why is GGS doing it this way.   I have most of my cooperative players not doing the missions because they say it is no fun always trying to compete with the high rollers.  By the time they start to do the mission most of these high players are already at 30,000 of the product.  During the championship only about 13 of 34 players participate because of this.  What happened to trying to match player levels when setting up missions.  Just because a play is at a high level does not mean they play at a high level.
    Is there any way that this can be improved.  If nothing is done about this, your going to see more and more players stop playing in the championship.  
    Post edited by Yend (US1) on
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    edited 23.01.2019 Answer ✓
    We've been asking for years for them to change it, but they aren't going to. What I would love to see is the very top players in a league with only other very top players. They play against each other and no one else. The rest of us would then have a fighting chance, and not just be fodder for the "high rollers."

    I bet gold sales would actually increase because they'd be playing against other high gold users,and they'd have to up their spending to win.
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    edited 23.01.2019
    We've been asking for years for them to change it, but they aren't going to. What I would love to see is the very top players in a league with only other very top players. They play against each other and no one else. The rest of us would then have a fighting chance, and not just be cannon fodder for the "high rollers."

    I bet gold sales would actually increase because they'd be playing against other high gold users,and they'd have to up their spending to win.
    Post edited by artful (US1) on
  • ijrosh (US1)ijrosh (US1) US1 Posts: 1,325
    We've been asking for years for them to change it, but they aren't going to. What I would love to see is the very top players in a league with only other very top players. They play against each other and no one else. The rest of us would then have a fighting chance, and not just be fodder for the "high rollers."

    I bet gold sales would actually increase because they'd be playing against other high gold users,and they'd have to up their spending to win.
    How exactly would that work? I mean there is no way to make it fair everyone has different farms everyone has different books everyone uses different gold everyone collects at different times so not sure how the system would know what would be fair 
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    We've been asking for years for them to change it, but they aren't going to. What I would love to see is the very top players in a league with only other very top players. They play against each other and no one else. The rest of us would then have a fighting chance, and not just be fodder for the "high rollers."

    I bet gold sales would actually increase because they'd be playing against other high gold users,and they'd have to up their spending to win.
    How exactly would that work? I mean there is no way to make it fair everyone has different farms everyone has different books everyone uses different gold everyone collects at different times so not sure how the system would know what would be fair 
    It's easy enough to look at the top scorers from week to week and their totals. Nothing is absolutely fair, but this might improve the odds for the lower level players.
  • Yend (US1)Yend (US1) US1 Posts: 21
    They can use the reputation points to match players.  A player with 70,000,000 reputation points should be with players with reputation points over say 50,000,000 or so, and the lower reputation point with lower players of roughly say 3,000,000 to 18,000,000 together, and 18,000,001 to 35,000,000  and so on.  This would give more players a chance.  They say there is not enough to start a mission.  I have found that I have been up against at least 3 or more players with reputation point over 60,000,000 more than once during the championships.  I am lucky to end up in 3rd if things are in my favor.  I do not have the cash for gold to buy all the books even when they are at 60% off.
  • edited 23.01.2019
    @Yend (US1) , @artful (US1)

    Matching players according to reputation points was first thing that was implemented when the CC started. Unfortunately, it led to a lot of solo missions and very long waiting periods between missions. So the system was changed. Now  the number of reputation points won is calculated based on your own score + a bonus that depends of total number of scores won by all players in missions and your position. 

    Remember, the reputation points count for CC, not the mission ranking. And the way the reputation points are calculated, you get more RP if matched with a player that collects huge amounts of products (unless you end up in the 6th place where you do not get the bonus).

    So, @artful (US1), the opposite is true. When players were mached according to RP, a lot of players complainded and asked if the system can be changed (and it was).  The way the system is set now, it should be  beneficial to both low and high level players. Nevertheless, some players noticed that the system may not work as intendent.

    Post edited by WiseWing (FormerMod) on
  • @Southern (US1) @5-10 Man (AU1) The balancer has agreed with Marowit on how the RP is supposed to be calculated & is ready now to take a look at the data that you have collected, so if you could both post all your info or send it in a PM to CM_Hunter as soon as you can, that would be great. Southern please could you could add to yours the number of players in each mission (excluding any that scored 0), I know that you posted here that it was 6, but if you could also put that on your worksheet. Thanks guys! :)

    I also asked about the mysterious +1.
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