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After collecting enough data! Time to talk Reason GGS! fire your pricing team now! they suck!
Now in here I'm not gonna talk about "why u nerfed the system or those things" there's other threads about that and i do support those also too but that's a different matter, the petition is still ongoing, many players already quit, and many other players are adapting, BUT!
I'm gonna talk about "Oyster, Shrimp, Clam" prices specifically on this thread! based on the calculations that we have done the current price/value for these 3 type of fishes are:
Oyster: 1846
Clam: 1378
Shrimp: 1107
Now assuming there exist all 3 type of these fishes equally in the pool while we send out our boats to catch, the ~average value for these fish types is:
(1846 + 1378 + 1107)/3 = 1443 dollars
Now on the other hand I have done some calculations too and reached the conclusion that even with Best ships = Trawlers, and with Best cost efficient crew/tool combination even (4 Brigitte + 3 Roy for level 1 trawler, 4 Brigitte + 4 Roy for level 2 trawler, and so on) considering ~10% loss of catch too then the estimate cost for catching 1 fish is about 782 dollars. and that is also assuming one always "sends right combination of crew/tools and not mistaken even put 1 extra Roy",
Now based on these 2 numbers:
1443 - 782 = 661 dollar average profit per (oyster/clam/shrimp) and you are giving us like 3-4 out of 6 pools only oyster/shrimp/clam nowadays after the update!
And let me add to this that the situation is even worse! with other boats! to the point that with smaller boats than trawlers catching these fishes can be even more costly to the point of LOSS!
And on the other hand, it costs estimate ~5millin dollars to even make a level 2 Trawler.
Now it takes ~7564 oyster/clam/shrimp in total to even EARN BACK THE COST FOR MAKING 1 LEVEL 2 TRAWLER. that is the stupidest thing ever!
And to make the situation worse even! you have forcefully added "extra prizes" like at least "1 karma point" to all contracts. so that is losing 25000 dollars again too for a junk!
Now I'm not gonna say why you changed old prices or not! But DO IT RIGHT FOR GODSAKE AT LEAST! what are your pricing team IQ? 5? they just reduced all prices down to 39.3% of the original price and think everything gets solved?! let me give you an advise before its too late! your pricing team sucks! fire them now! the Oyster/Shrimp/Clam prices were already low enough even before the update/nerf! after the new system, it is almost better to NOT CATCH THEM AT ALL! so which part of this adjustment exactly was meant to "re-balance things for the better and make the game more fun?!"
So I will ask sincerely here for returning oyster/shrimp/clam prices (also ofcourse their related Chums too) back to what they were at least! and Fire your pricing team now!
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And @ All players who may read this thread: At least until we get a firm reply reply from the GGS of what will happen to fix this mistake, Make sure to completely STAY AWAY FROM SENDING BOATS TO OYSTER/SHRIMP/CLAM POOLs.
Unless you are a reallllllllly calculating person and very careful! and unless you mastered fishing! Not only it won't make any profit for you AT ALL! but also YOU WILL DOUBLE-LOSE profit by "NOT SENDING YOUR BOATS TO OTHER FISH TYPE POOLS" (it is called opportunity loss). EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO LET SOME OF YOUR SHIPS like 6 (out of 14) of them even maybe REMAIN AT BAY IDLE! (since GGS is giving us like 4 out of 6 pools only shrimp/clam/oyster these days) Let it be! Unless again I say you are 100% sure you are not making a loss! don't send your boats to these pools!
Comments
In all seriousness, think about how much it may cost GGS in terms of overtime, extra programming time, lost customers, huge compensation for customers who remain etc. by not things right first time. They must correct this somehow.
Saying there is less income for fish is one thing but carelessly ensuring good customers are losing money by playing the game normally is really low and shows a total disregard for ALL players of big farm.
MAN UP GGS - admit your errors - find out how this error was made and ensure that these failings are not repeated again one way or another.
Increase the price of fish in your next update as an immediate priority,
For example, I have a pool of 166 Shrimp, 109 Clams, and 126 Oysters.
That would put the average for that pool at:
( (166*1107) + (109*1378) + (126*1846) ) / (166+109+126) = $1,412 per shellfish
Which is quite a bit lower than your estimate, making the profit even that much LOWER. (And doesn't include the possible 10%+ loss calculation, either).
The problem would be even more pronounced on Tuna/Herring pools, as Herring seems to spawn in numbers 10x more than Tuna, making the average price per pool more heavily weighted to the lower Herring value.
I've run the numbers a few different ways though, and as long as I avoid Freezers and stick mostly with Brigettes, Roys & Victors, I can still turn a pretty good "Profit" per contract (at least on the 5 Karma & $$$ ones. Not so much on the ones with Rakes & PTAs).
Once I start equipping Freezers though, especially for lower value fish like Shellfish & Tuna/Herring, profits take a nose-dive (although I can still make ~100k/hour on a Tuna/Herring pool, per Trawler).
Again though, all these fish have to be filtered through Contracts, and that's a HUGE bottleneck.
I'd be perfectly ok with the lower values if we could still sell the fish directly, rather than HAVING to filter them through contracts.
(I.E., I'd like the choice. I LOVE charms and will gladly fill contracts for them, just not at a loss).
And the thing is, with tuna/herring or lobster, or swordfish/salmon/cod pools, at least since the "base price" or "raw price as i call it" is high enough to avoid at least 99% of the players from making a loss as long as they know a bit of fishing.
But the same does not apply to Oyster/Shrimp/Clam pools, they are very risky business now. not only they can "majorly" cause loss of dollars + effort + ship investment. but also they are almost "non-profitable" due to opportunity loss for even "master fishers" or those who are very calculative/careful too.
And the cost is just awful let me make another example for GGS pricing team idiots too in accordance with what you said about "freezers" (or in general capacity items too):
This is the cost of using Capacity items for catching 1 extra of any type of fish(not even considering other costs:
Small cooler on Motorboat: 650
Coolbox on Runabout: 1950
Thermic box on Norfolk Wherry: 1950
Freezer on Skipjack: 1950
Large Freezer on Trawler: 1950
now remember again as i said in my first post:
~average value for these fish types is:
(1846 + 1378 + 1107)/3 = 1443 dollars (or even less actually as Southern explained the reason)
Now use a bit of your brain stupid GGS, why the "Capacity item" even "Exist"? if most of pools are now after the update usually oyster/shrimp/clam, and their value worth less than the cost for capacity items, aside from Motorboat? or are you seriously expecting us to demolish our Trawlers now and go back and make like 14 Motorboat just to catch oysters/shrimp/clam? what is wrong with your pricing team's brains really? this is simple math we're not even doing complicated calculations like statistical analysis or probability formulas here, it is simple childish "2+2=4" math for godsake!
You messed up half-way in the first update by "over-pricing the fishes" (based on your own conclusion that is also btw not mine) and to fix things you made them "too cheap to even make a loss for us"? how is that exactly "balancing" honestly if the profit's ROR (rate of return) is so low that it makes it not even worth upgrading any boat/ship anymore, or if the profit itself is actually "a loss"?
I'm not against "balancing", ok so the fishing system was becoming dead since you "over-priced" fishes at first maybe a little, but:
GGS: "Hey guys let's reduce all prices to 39.3% and make travel times 30% more, and make 80% of the pools turn into oyster/shrimp/clam to steal dollars from players and the rest 15% Herring (no more tuna even in it) + 5% lobster and swordfish/cod/salmon to give them a little bit but steal that little bit with a few brush/rake/karma too"
IS NOT BALANCING! it is so stupid, that I can't think of anything else other than thinking someone slept through a late night party and woke up with hang-over and in 1 minute just decided to add afew numbers to the Codes and then call it balancing! Just to get paid! ofcourse!
When you saw this post please, be honest with yourself GGS, and ask this simple question from yourselves:
"Why did we even bother with designing, coding, doing alot of work etc to create a feature in the game that 120% of our customers are unhappy about now and either stopped using it anymore, or the few players who still use it even are also still unhappy!"
And after thinking about it you might end up reaching the same conclusion as I and many other players have reached:
"FIRE THE STUPID PRICING TEAM"
I'm personally not against deep sea fishing, i find it fun, I am not against it's artwork, I think it's great, I'm not against it's design, coding, features, they seem good. But why just why after so much effort you put to make all of these, you leave the "most important part" = "balancing/pricing" to the most stupid ppl in your company to make the whole thing useless?! Just why...
sorry had that backwards GREED=FRAUD
Greed is part of human nature, it is a mistake we make sometimes due to not considering long-term consequences maybe. What i'm discussing on this thread is from a whole different perspective though.I would not call this Greed, Greed is when you know there's a "demand for your product" and optimum selling price is 100 dollars for example yet you price it 101! and it still sells in short-medium term but fails in longterm since the customer if needs it buys it still but slowly loses interest!
But this is plain stupidity! they are not Greedy(not in this specific case at least, other things aside)! They are stupid! otherwise what's the point of creating something that not in short-term, nor in mid-term, and nor in long-term has any benefit?! and mathematically gives -100% customer satisfaction just because one-part of it only = "pricing/balancing" been done by total idiots?!
Even though I do agree with your dissatisfaction too regarding the recent update, yet I have to say no my friend, this is not Greed, this is plain Stupidity. and not by the whole company probably, just by a few idiots who didn't even put 2 minutes to come up with this "balancing bullshit!" and the reason i say this is because I still respect the "idea/art/design/etc" teams of this company, they had nothing to do with this and I highly doubt they put so much effort just to get these results at end?!! all the blame is on Marketing team, specially Pricing section of it.
https://community.goodgamestudios.com/bigfarm/en/discussion/comment/3602537#Comment_3602537
But its real impact will be on their bank accounts.
As a first step of protest, pathetic response to ongoing CC in our server....
A Sword fish is laughing somewhere in our deep seas......
well based on dictionary definitions at least I think the words I used to describe the "pricing/balancing" team of GGS didn't deserve a "flag" but well the question is:
Is calling a person/team that "has or shows a great lack of intelligence or common sense"(as proven by the calculations in the first post) by an adjective that means "having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense." wrong really?
Well, it is a good morality question for us to think about honestly
While this "having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense." Pricing/balancing team of GGS think of the other question:
"How to fix this mess we created?"
Also from "Human resource management" point of view, I think GGS should actually at least thank me for suggesting them "to fire their pricing/balancing team", but well freedom of speech still exist if my words to GGS offended some players on forum I sincerely apologize, I don't like using harsh words honestly either, but maybe my weakness is those who can't do simple math like "2+2=?" even.
And those who have played this game for long enough at least, should know better this is "not the first time" this team has messed up bigtime, anyone remembers "bakery's minus profit" when it was first introduced? anyone remembers "candy farm's messed up productions rates" when it was introduced? Need I point out more even, till GGS HR department starts firing their pricing/balancing team?
Tiresome person with your flag button give it a rest.
Ok, so basically we would have to be rocket scientists or mathematicians now in order to play Bigfarm. At the very least we would have to be good with numbers and now we also have to expect GGS will indeed rip us off. I guess we all should have had a clue when they kept trying to give us useless Lobster cages as prizes. They never did offer any type of compensation for that.
Edited: BTW, when I say " So this game that the majority of the players blindly put their faith in", I simply mean we all come here to relax and have fun and play. We all harvest our eggs and build our buildings and play the different events and normally expect everything to be in good working order and "balanced".
isn't that an oxymoron?
bottom line ggs look foolish to be quite frank, from any angle you look at it, they basically got everything wrong
I only send my boats out, as they come.
No extra's, because i can not afford a huge loss on the price.
And why spend my Roy's and his fishing friends for something i can't even use for myself.
Those rakes and brushes can be put in a dark place where there is no sun.
Then poof gone. The stupid bug strikes and GG removes the ability to make ANYTHING selling fish.
So now before the fallout even hits the ground your back at it figuring out what to do to get what and crunching numbers. My head hurts just skimming over it all. Not fun to me, math class homework! EEEWWWW. And for what? When management sees that in just one weekend players have stopped spending, and IF management ever reads any of this and sees just how angry this made everyone, some to the point of closing up their farms and leaving, they may well step in and redo the whole thing once again. Rendering all your hard work pointless.
now I know some people love to reverse engineer games. So if that's what you love to do, hey, they will keep you busy for sure.
As for me? I'm just so glad I never jumped on this whole dock thing as fast as some of you all, never read up on the LONG pages of tips and guides etc. I just plodded along with farm money and got what I got.
Yea it was getting interesting. I saw light at the end of the tunnel here with so many parts of this game being a huge money drain. Finally a chance to actually play some of it.
But no, the stupid bug strikes again. So be it.
Boats go out without any crews. They get what they get. It will stock pile. I'm barely even looking at their new market. Mostly deleting the brush/rake "awards." Just farming my farm. Lets wait and see if ANYONE in upper management can find out where the stupid bug is striking and clean house. Surely everyone in GG isn't stupid. Probably just one or a few disgruntled employees sticking it to their company before they up and quit. My best guess. Or they really are just plain stupid. Maybe good computer programers but never took a business class or ever worked with customers in their lives.
i think i recall you asking enough questions about it at the time, just couldnt follow simple advice, unless im confusing you with someone else
Thing is, I play this to relax. I do NOT want to do homework just to play a silly game.
Some advice is helpful. Some, long pages of detailed instruction is a bit much, then some comes with condescending remarks like yours. It's ok, everyone is in angry mode lately.
So… with all the time and effort put into creating guides and all that, now it's all worthless because the fish we catch can't be sold. Glad I didn't waste any time studying guides. I just send my empty fleet out now, they get what they get. This will all probably change again sooner than later once GG sees how many gold spenders just locked up their wallets. muahahahaha.
1- increasing price of oyster/shrimp/clam back to their old price.
2- fixing "swordfish/cod/salmon" extinction, or in general, fixing rate of "different pool appearing" back to how it was in old system.
3- bringing back the "sell" button. (even if new prices be lower than old system)
I am not thinking or even expecting them to really bring back the old system no, i've for long time now given up on that, and if you think they will i honestly think you are dreaming(with no offense btw just my honest opinion). But I hope they come back to their right senses and at least fix these 3 issues i mentioned above ^ as soon as possible to avoid more customer dissatisfaction and to avoid making their much effort in making the deep sea fishing turn into an almost "majority ignoring feature or not much bothering with it feature". so that's why I will continue this thread until at least we get a solid response regarding it.
of course would like the other 2 issues be addressed as well...
not holding my breath for any of it... and am fishing what I can which will build inventory, which is about all I can do now and be able to complete contracts now and then...
Thanks for all you do @Griffith (INT1) with the fishing etc... it is much appreciated!
I had been so excited when DSF rolled out; I looked at my little Farm Laboratory and thought to myself, "Someday, little Lab, you're going to grow up to be 30 years old." I worked hard, every day (and I have the spreadsheets to prove it. ), figuring out the best equipment for the best return(s), Upgrading, charting routes, saving & scrimping, to save up the $13 BILLION required to upgrade the Lab to Level 30.
And that's not an exaggeration; it's $13,337,321,000 and/or 1,361,030 gold (Yeah, like anyone would spend over a million gold for that... Well, maybe somebody would. I dunno.)
It was exciting knowing that with time, hard work, daily playing and patience, I would be able to save up enough money to upgrade that Laboratory.
Now, I log in, look at my Lab, and just *Sigh*.. There's just no way. It's completely unrealistic. At least not without buying $500 worth of gold during a 2-for-1 sale *just* to upgrade 1 building (not happening).
I don't care about the Lester's Stash (over level 5 or 6 and you never make back the RoI); I don't care about Matilda's Academy (after level 150 or so, XP is meaningless), and I don't care much about land/farm expansions - those will come with time and patience.
That Lab, though - that's what kept me playing. It was my goal.
Then they went and moved the goalposts.
What was once attainable, is now forever out of reach.
And that's depressing.
You used the perfect words to describe the DSF 'adjustments': Dejected, Depressed.
But poor GGS is blind to see this thread right from our hearts.... they will keep on sending their useless survey messages to us.... and with some more 'adjustments', their whole studio itself will go to Greta, the inevitable for any unpopular stuffs in this world....