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Update August 16th - "Deep Sea Changes" - Discussion

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Comments

  • JustMe (US1)JustMe (US1) US1 Posts: 491
    gavinfarms (US1) said:
    gavinfarms (US1) said:
    Now that I have had a chance to look at this update....here are my thoughts.


    1   We should still be able to sell fish.  GGS was wrong to remove this feature.  GGS was correct that the amounts were too high.  People were making insane amounts of off the fish, and some balance had left the game.  That needed reigning in.  You could do that buy cutting the selling prices by 70 percent and letting people choose between that and the market.  In the regular market, we can sell apples there or sell them directly.  You make 25 percent more if you sell them in the market, but you have the choice.  I think that choice should be here.  There was no logical reason to remove this, simply re-balance the pricing.

    2  I absolutely hate the new fishing travel times and locations.  It had taken a long time to learn the previous set-up, and changing that was totally unnecessary.  There was absolutely no reason for that.

    3   The prices of the crew and tackle need to be greatly reduced, given the market's prices.

    4   Also, the various perks such as karma and rakes, etc., should not cut into the pricing so deeply.  For example a market order might let me sell 200 fish for 3 million, and then another market order might let me sell the same 200 fish and get a rake plus 500,000.  In these circumstances, you are way underwater.

    5   Lastly, I had quit doing the temp (island,Viking,Candy) farms, because it sucked too many farm dollars away.  The fishing allowed me to start doing them again.  I am considering not doing the temp farms anymore.  You should not put me in the position of not wanting to play the temp farms, because it cripples my main farm.  This is ridiculous.  The fishing had solved that.  If, as I noted above, you had cut the prices by 70 percent, and left the fishing areas and travel times alone, there would have been enough extra income to do the temp farms and some moderate growth.  In short, GGS went too far.  If they truly seek balance, they will find a middle ground between what used to be and what they have done.

    I want to add to my earlier thoughts.

    Number 2 is extremely important.  You need to put the fish locations and times back to the way they were.  I am not arguing that you get rid of the market altogether, but it does not work well with the current fish layout.  The old one needs to come back.

    You need to remove the penalty for declining an order.  The regular market has a much, much greater variety of farm items and does not creates streaks and ruts as a result.  There only 9 types of fish.  You can easily get stuck declining orders over and over, looking for a way to sell what you have collected, to collect money to buy more tackle and personnel.  This is hugely punitive.  Ultimately, this is why you are going to have to allow the direct selling of fish.  Right now, I have to keep buying tackle and personnel to catch fish that I can never get rid of.  If this stays the case, then I have to stop fishing.  Please understand this.

    I am not trying to get you to undo the market.  But it is inferior to the organic market and is likely to always be, because the product range is so much smaller.  It will always be subject to more mathematical pitfalls.   

    If you go back and look at the discussion from 2 years ago, I was a large part of catching the bugs in the current organic market.  I understand that you want this format to succeed, and that some players will not be helpful in this endeavor.  But right now, if you do not allow the direct selling of fish, then you would need to dramatically increase the market order cash payouts to make up for its inherent flaws.   I am extremely confident that if you allow the direct selling of fish, people will ultimately do both, just as they do with the regular market.  Sometimes is better for me to sell apples directly and sometimes better through the market.  The fact that I can decide that for myself when to use the market and when not to, enhances the gameplay, not detracts from it. 

    You at GGS would like for us to trust you that this market should exist.  I get that.  But you must also trust us.  The market is better than direct selling.  People will hate me for saying that.  You are actually somewhat correct about that.  When you allow the direct selling of fish, the better players will figure out the benefits of the market, and ultimately those tips will feed down to others.  But you must have just as much faith in us as you expect us to have in you!  By not allowing the direct selling of fish, you are attempting to man-handle the player and force this upon them.  That will not get you the result that you hope for.  The rollout of the first organic market was much better, even though it took a long time for players to get used to it.  You need to trust that process to happen again. It won't be overnight, but people will ultimately prefer the market.....if you will just handle this better.
    There was no reason to ADD a new market when these items could be sold in the current market except for being punative and enforcing the harvesting and sale of these fish - so far have not been able to test the profitablity of much based on the equipment I am am using. 

    The time, types of fish and quanity changes are miserable. 

    There was no reason to remove the selling of the fish dishes as offered and rescinded stated in the official announcement 

    The amount of fish dishes need for Yarnuckles boat is so out of wack compared to other things and it is a donation when the quanity to make is so low. I never ever donate these dishes for the boat.
  • Dee Emm Jay (US1)Dee Emm Jay (US1) US1 Posts: 61
    FarmerCli (US1) said:
    I noticed the top 50 in the current CC, and it seems very likely that those folks in those coops (most in the top 10) are keeping GGS in business...so all our hollering and weeping and gnashing of teeth is falling by the wayside...As long as GGS gets enough gullible folks to buy the gold, our voice will not be heard and acted upon (unless it is in a negative way and very unbeneficial for us).  I have hundreds of socks to give out to the homeless!
    having played in the top cc coops not everyone uses gold
    the level and amount of time you play is factored in
    gold users allow others to play for free
  • dchen1 (US1)dchen1 (US1) US1 Posts: 993

    13 swordfish and 49 chum for NO money and 2 gifts
    Gifts cannot increase production of high profit buildings such as the shop, mermaid bay, and Oleg fishing.  
    This is WAY out of balance.  
  • dchen1 (US1)dchen1 (US1) US1 Posts: 993
    debj (GB1) said:
    am also disappointed (huge understatement) with the contents of this update :'(  , but have waited to comment until I could see how the fishy market developed. 

    ok, maybe I can see the point that profits were exceedingly high for the deep sea fishing but to upgrade the boats, especially the trawler, as well as the lab & the temporary island farm are also unbelievably expensive. I was of the opinion that the deep sea fishing was intended to offset those costs and to rebalance the game again. silly me. Therefore note to GGS: When the fishing was first introduced it should have been clearly explained that the high prices were only temporary.  I will also echo the calls for a rebalancing of lab/matilda/stash & temporary island farm. I enjoy playing all parts of this game & lack of dollars (I am L314) was hindering my ability to do this fully, I really enjoyed being able to upgrade labs and build a whole temporary farm, I can't normally afford that. 

    I am aggrieved that there is no option to sell. I find this aspect troublesome within the game for the products that already have this, I really did not was another unable to sell/unlimited storage item. If the profits were too high the better option would have been to reduce how many dollars we got when selling the fish & chum directly, not remove the ability to sell them at all.

    In terms of the contracts ... there are way too many contracts with the rewards of just rake & brush, this should be for want of a better word "re-balanced". Once I got past the L1 fishy market the contracts did vary more and the profits did increase, so not too bad, not as good as it was, but more in line with organic market. There also appears to be too many orders asking for chum, I think the production times of chum need to either be reduced or the contracts need altering. I personally only look for dollars on a contract order & make sure this is above the cost of production, the rest I deem as a bonus and nothing more. 

    The problem with the organic market is the quantities required at a higher level, it takes so long to fill the orders & the quantities are too large often to fill the timed orders with normal farming so they are just skipped. The lower & medium levels of the organic market worked well. L99 not so much, but it doesn't matter as much because when the orders get blocked on one item I have other products I am selling to make a profit. The fish won't be able to balance like this with the removal of the ability to sell. 

    I have really only fished using the workers to increase the fish caught per hour, so in essence I have probably missed out quite a bit during the secret bonanza profits phase, but if I send out the boats with just those workers all except a couple of my un-upgraded boats remain profitable, not like it was before, but I will always take any profit over none, albeit grumbling at the moment. 

    The longer fishing times are annoying, but manageable. However, what is not manageable and my biggest grievance is the fish pools. It was bad enough doing FHWE when there was no control over what type of pools, now it is ridiculous all there seems to be is the oyster/clam/shrimp pools and the tuna/herring pools. It will not be possible to fill market orders or do a FHWE event if there are no pools of the type of fish about. This needs to be urgently addressed. Even with oleg fishing you could use bait to ensure the items was available if it was needed, that is not possible here. As I see it there are 2 options 1) ensure there there is always 1 type of each pool available at all times, or 2) enable using the fishing equipment to change the contents of a pool .. e.g. if you attached the lobster cage and sent the boat to tuna/herring pool it would catch tuna, herring & lobster. 

    Oh and one other point ... rather than a delete for fish equipment items a sell would have been much better. 
     


    There is no storage limits so a delete button would be the same as no button.  
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    edited 19.08.2017
    amaprincess1 (US1) said:
    Edit: On a side note... Yea, laws were broken in the US. Wire Fraud. Would the feds get excited about it? Probably not, but technically it was against US law.  Ponzi-esque.

    Nope.  No laws were broken, U.S. or otherwise, because gold has never been an official requirement for the game.  And it's free now and then.  Had they demanded money to play the game, then not allowed access to said game, well, you'd have a case then.

    There probably is something in the Terms of Service we agreed to simply by signing up that the game can make any changes it wants to at any time.

    I'm sorry heavy gold users were burned, but that's been going on a long time, although to a lesser degree.  The moral of the story is that large financial investments in a game like this probably isn't in the player's best interest.

    Sidenote: No resemblance to Ponzi schemes at all.


    Post edited by artful (US1) on
  • muggle1 (GB1)muggle1 (GB1) GB1 Posts: 124
    I am still really struggling with the fish market.  Not one Lobster pool since the update.  I have tried hard to get a third contract, thought the two contracts I had were improving in reward a bit, and then today one of them went right back to the one rake and one brush offer.  Still no third contract.  If we can't start upgrading profit mark up until we get 6 contracts this is going to take years!  Does ANYONE have a 3rd contract yet? 
  • Surya54 (INT1)Surya54 (INT1) INT1 Posts: 507
    edited 19.08.2017
    @muggle1 (GB1) like this? (Need to fulfill the contract 15 times before reach this stage)

  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    Surya54 (INT1) said:
    @muggle1 (GB1) like this? (Taking 15 times before reach this stage)

    How are you managing to do that without losing money?  
  • dchen1 (US1)dchen1 (US1) US1 Posts: 993
    The meaning of balancing is not too much or too little, the right amounts to make the game more fun and also fair.  When the developers thinks the sell values are too much, they remove the ability to sell and make the dollar values in contracts way too low.  
  • Felixx5 (INT1)Felixx5 (INT1) INT1 Posts: 7
    This is the most read forum discussion. I'll ask the next question here in the hope that someone from the GGS will read it. Briefly. I recently left the coop after many years. Why can I not see CC as an "ordinary" player? Why can not I see how CC advances? Why should I be a member of the coop to GGS me the view of CC results? Why I was discriminated against in the same game. My wish would be to see how CC progresses. The GGS would like me to enter Coop because there are "benefits". Do I have to? Sorry about the interference.
  • Surya54 (INT1)Surya54 (INT1) INT1 Posts: 507
    For oyster/clam/shrimp pool, I use non speedy motorboat crew/equipment, while the other pool using any avaiable fleet (7 Runabouts, 4 Wherries, and a Skipjack). Doing the contract that only offer karma + dollars
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    Surya54 (INT1) said:
    For oyster/clam/shrimp pool, I use non speedy motorboat crew/equipment, while the other pool using any avaiable fleet (7 Runabouts, 4 Wherries, and a Skipjack). Doing the contract that only offer karma + dollars
    Interesting.  My little boats can't be sent out with equipment and still make a profit.  I just get what I can, then maybe fill a contract in a month or six. LOL!
  • Graciemi (US1)Graciemi (US1) US1 Posts: 23
    Corvid (GB1) said:
    if balance is the buzz word, i'd like to know how they came to the conclusion that a wheel of fortune that could rack up points in minutes, which would take literally weeks to acru in WCC, was 'balanced'

    cos if anything of late was out of balance to an extraordinary degree, its was the last minute introduction of the WCC wheel
  • MoonionsRule (US1)MoonionsRule (US1) US1 Posts: 491
    Jiesta (NL1) said:
    grashopper1998 (NL1) said:

    So, we should have an honest discussion ... like Jiesta (NL1) said....you know, the person who runs the Dutch support section, where she says she is from Big Farm,
    well...not gonna go there, but in Marketing we call this ... an Advertorial. 

    Don't tell lies @grashopper1998 (NL1), read all the pages of the Dutch thread - dive into the archives if you wish, and tell me where I ever stated that I "am from Big Farm" and I certainly do not "run" the Dutch thread!
    @grashopper1998 (NL1)  - you should get your proper information first , before you post to  the forum.
    Jiesta is one of the "older" game players I have known, I never recall her telling anyone she is a part of firm "BigFarm" lol  
    She was (is) always super active on the forum, helping many players who have issues with game, understanding of events, tasks.  She is super nice & very helpful.  Just because somebody posts "a-lot" lol, does not mean they work as or help out the BigFarm mods :) cheers 
  • farmerjohn 22 (US1)farmerjohn 22 (US1) US1 Posts: 37,770
    Felixx5 (INT1) said:
    . Why can I not see CC as an "ordinary" player? Why can not I see how CC advances? Why should I be a member of the coop to GGS me the view of CC results? Why I was discriminated against in the same game. My wish would be to see how CC progresses. The GGS would like me to enter Coop because there are "benefits". Do I have to? Sorry about the interference.
    @Felixx5 (INT1)  The reason you can't see the CC as a player who's not in a cooperative is probably because there's typically no need for it. If someone enjoys playing solo, they may even not want the CC event shown. ;)  
  • Dee Emm Jay (US1)Dee Emm Jay (US1) US1 Posts: 61
    davejohnston (US1) said:
    FarmerCli (US1) said:
    I noticed the top 50 in the current CC, and it seems very likely that those folks in those coops (most in the top 10) are keeping GGS in business...so all our hollering and weeping and gnashing of teeth is falling by the wayside...As long as GGS gets enough gullible folks to buy the gold, our voice will not be heard and acted upon (unless it is in a negative way and very unbeneficial for us).  I have hundreds of socks to give out to the homeless!
    having played in the top cc coops not everyone uses gold
    the level and amount of time you play is factored in
    gold users allow others to play for free

  • Dee Emm Jay (US1)Dee Emm Jay (US1) US1 Posts: 61
    check what the levels are say in the brats...they play hard
    I have never played there tho I have been invited
    I have played with some of them on different teams
    ggs is free to play...but they need to pay their staff

  • Lawyer2000fUser (US1)Lawyer2000fUser (US1) Posts: 31
    edited 19.08.2017
    It boils down to GOLD purchases.  If we are allowed to make cash easier and upgrade our farms with cash then GGS sells less gold.  Telling me they were taking away something great that had been given to us is not a good fix and I had no problem with the challenge of the game like they are trying to tell us.   I had bought a lot of gold prior to this change, but I do not see me buying more gold in the near future.  GGS should never give us something that we like and then just take it away.  Again, it is all about gold.   SINCE SOMETHING GREAT HAS BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM US, LET US TAKE SOMETHING AWAY FROM GGS.  DO NOT BUY GOLD UNTIL WE GET OUR DEEP SEA FISHING BACK JUST LIKE IT WAS OR GREATER.  I bet this would get GGS attention.  BUY NO GOLD FOLKS!

    I was actually enjoying the game so much more after I got my boats built up--yes, I spent gold doing this so I could enjoy the great profits.  Now GGS has taken it away.  Before the DSF, the game was boring as it takes way to long to improve your facilities due to the excessive cost unless you buy gold.  The game is moving way to slow again. The last update makes the game less enjoyable and actually less challenging GGS.  GGS explanation for the change is to benefit GGS, not us players.
    Post edited by Lawyer2000fUser (US1) on
  • Angelas Place (US1)Angelas Place (US1) Posts: 669
    to me this update is just a way to yet remove something beneficial to the players yet again. I used my profits from selling fish to build, upgrade and expand. But guessing GGS already knew that other players did that as well and the greed took over and they decided they were not gonna have it. They are trying to act like God who giveth and taketh. I have a feeling just by reading the comments though you may have hit a brick wall with this hot mess. Not gonna burn gold doing updates and expanding and if you truly value your players input and it seems to be a MASSIVE output you would be wise to undo your mistake..Js. The players SHOULD matter. 
  • Damaria3 (US1)Damaria3 (US1) US1 Posts: 1,737
    edited 19.08.2017
    Tigrain (BG1) said:
    I have a feeling this tuna herring fiasco is also an intended move.in a week or so they will "fix" the spots,remove some rakes/brushes from contracts ,will throw a new event,architect or two.. and the things will slowly settle down , just like when they removed the gold mining license from cc.

    I said this on day 1  this was a well thought out scheme suck us in spending all that gold and cash to get fleet going to be able to participate it FHWE --then the fake oh no you guys you have too much  let me help ya  lets take away 85% of your earning capacity  --- when the dust settles  they give back 10 --15%   problem is I liked the game a whole lot more when they pulled the goldflower, GML forgave went back to buying gold.  I will NEVER forget this,  never trust that they act in GOOD FAITH with their customers. I think that while there are a few die hards,  they have made a tear that will not be easily mended if it can there best bet would be get that new farm out ASAP.   At this point i really dont care what they do damage ran too deep.
  • Soldat Vaillant (US1)Soldat Vaillant (US1) Posts: 9
    edited 20.08.2017
    dchen1 (US1) said:

    13 swordfish and 49 chum for NO money and 2 gifts
    Gifts cannot increase production of high profit buildings such as the shop, mermaid bay, and Oleg fishing.  
    This is WAY out of balance.  


    A far cry from more than $600K you would have made on the open market, but at least the games "balanced". Right??.  

    I'm done.  Tried the new fishing arrangement, getting between 0% (no cash) and 35% of the former price is ludicrous.  But there's nothing I can say about this debacle that hasn't been said numerous times already in this thread. Maybe if enough of us leave permanently the game will get better for those that stay or return.

    I may not have been the biggest customer in terms of gold sales, but it was better than nothing from me at all and I was just getting started.  So GGS had more gold sales coming, operative word being "had".   

    I spent my last few gold dollars speeding up the destruction of boats and farm facilities. It may take a while to get the rest, but every object I can demolish will be demolished.

    My main farm was packed with buildings, the dock yard had a small fleet of 12 boats, 2 motorboats and 10 runabouts. Small, but growing and I was looking forward to buying the larger vessels.
    .



    Post edited by Soldat Vaillant (US1) on
  • Thorim (US1)Thorim (US1) US1 Posts: 197
    Have not run a mission not going to either... The reason I run missions during the cc is to gain certs to upgrade my tractors, putting upgrades to tractors on hold for now... Boats are in dry dock for now, haven't even looked at a contract from the new and improved fish market.

    All I want is one chance to sell all the fish, chum and other deep sea creatures that i caught prior to the "balancing" at the price prior too the" balancing." I won't be holding my breath on this one as I have a better chance of becoming the pope, and If you knew me you all would be rotflyao
  • Xcution (INT1)Xcution (INT1) INT1 Posts: 1,183
    U see this karma points are way too expensive just can't tell u how much I flushed flushed and flushed then this appeared in front of me I said some decent money then I use stash and when I was going to put I rmember I am not boating any more :trollface:
  • SweetLyusy (GB1)SweetLyusy (GB1) Posts: 2
    Fine! We can try and play by the new rules. After all, those from GGS who came up with this farm deserve a big THANK YOU. I can also understand the reason behind making the things harder for the players to make farm dollars as opposed to buying gold with cash. However, please, keep it BALANCED!

    Where are the pools with cod, salmon and swordfish? Since the re-balancing I haven't seen any of those. Yet, they are already introduced in the fish market. Maybe, there is a trick that I am not aware of? I'm using trawlers so pretty sure all the pools in my fishing area are being emptied once every 24 hours. 
  • artful (US1)artful (US1) US1 Posts: 6,617
    Thorim (US1) said:
    Have not run a mission not going to either... The reason I run missions during the cc is to gain certs to upgrade my tractors, putting upgrades to tractors on hold for now... Boats are in dry dock for now, haven't even looked at a contract from the new and improved fish market.

    All I want is one chance to sell all the fish, chum and other deep sea creatures that i caught prior to the "balancing" at the price prior too the" balancing." I won't be holding my breath on this one as I have a better chance of becoming the pope, and If you knew me you all would be rotflyao
    I'm doing the daily mission, Your Holiness.  I do hope the powers that be will allow one sell off, but that would take reprogramming, etdamncetera. :)
  • 24-KL0V3R (US1)24-KL0V3R (US1) US1 Posts: 2,464
    edited 30.01.2023
    No Comment
    Post edited by 24-KL0V3R (US1) on
  • Dee Emm Jay (US1)Dee Emm Jay (US1) US1 Posts: 61
    Graciemi (US1) said:
    Corvid (GB1) said:
    if balance is the buzz word, i'd like to know how they came to the conclusion that a wheel of fortune that could rack up points in minutes, which would take literally weeks to acru in WCC, was 'balanced'

    cos if anything of late was out of balance to an extraordinary degree, its was the last minute introduction of the WCC wheel
    they had said they were going to do that earlier at the start
    I did not use gold but had 500 tokens saved
  • 24-KL0V3R (US1)24-KL0V3R (US1) US1 Posts: 2,464
    edited 30.01.2023
    No Comment
    Post edited by 24-KL0V3R (US1) on
  • grrr (NL1)grrr (NL1) NL1 Posts: 664
    Not really, i used them up in the WWC, (not to buy a place but to keep from losing to many) and I've already got 41 new tokens. Yarnacle tends to bring a few almost every day. So a few months without spinning should amount to quite lot.
  • Damaria3 (US1)Damaria3 (US1) US1 Posts: 1,737
    I like to be upfront and honest  while trying to support a girlcott  asked my team to  and all but a couple has but that has put my coop in last place  I cant let my whole coop be punished, so we arent buying gold or using but will participate enough to not be demoted.  Being a leader I cant let the whole coop fall not fair to them. So if you see me in missions send a hello. 
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