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Toolboxes

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Comments

  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 17.03.2017
    Marowit said:
    @gavinfarms (US1)

    You just want more numbers out of me and try to get that by making me give you exact cases  :p

    I'm looking at the Tool drops for the cows right now and I can tell you for sure it is different, you get 3 times more TP from regular feed as opposed to speedy feed, but the timer is 16 times longer for the regular feed.

    How ever due to the fact that you get pieces, which are invisible to you, it could indeed look like it doesn't work properly.


    I am absolutely not trying to get you to give out more.  I am trying to point out that you all have radically shifted the tools and machines away from every user and toward those who play all the time.  The user that logs on 3 times a day has been severely hurt by this.

    Cows take 7 hours.  Speedy cows take 7.5 minutes.  That is up to 8 runs per hour and for 7 hours.  That means you can do them 56 times in the same 7-hour interval.  So even if your timer is 16 times longer, speedy cows drop a lot more tools than regular cows. 

    I have built all four new machines (the last one yesterday).  Speedy cows made this possible.  They actually drop as reliably as chickens.

    I have lots of members in my coop, who log on several times a day for 30-60 minutes at a time.  These people are getting very few tools at all.  They are punished under this math.  This is yet another reason to reverse the disastrous decision on silos and composters. 

    Also, on @Meela 's page, I pointed out that you all should multiply everything tool-related by 100.  This would cause us to see the partial tools that are collected.  Instead of costing 120 for a machine, it would be 12,000, but every time a chicken or cow or silo or composter drops partial tools, they would be visible.  This would help everyone in understanding what is going on.

    On the silo, here is a "yes or no" question for you.  If I do two 16-hour runs of the silo, producing 600 fertilizer each time, and I do this back-to-back, should I be able to get zero tools twice in a row.  Because right now that does happen.  I can run my silo for 32 hours straight and get zero tools.

    Lastly, I was a software developer for a banks in NY for a while.  I understand very well, that sometimes the most well-intentioned upgrades simply do not work out in reality.  I am not suggesting for a moment that you all were not thinking positively and trying to improve the game, but when it was rolled out, it has not worked.  And as of right now, I am convinced that you all do not see that.

    This game has gotten large and complicated.  This is a good thing.  It brings a challenge.  You need to roll back the silo/composter change.  Then, if you like, raise the cost of the machines from 120 to 200 or 250 to take that into account.  That would be taken much better by the user.

    Again, I also hope that you all really consider the "multiply everything by 100" idea.  It would get the partial tools out of the shadows, where everyone can see them.  This worked great with xp points, so that we could see the bonus from Matilda.  I think it would help a lot here.
    Post edited by gavinfarms (US1) on
  • buddy194 (US1)buddy194 (US1) US1 Posts: 382
    edited 17.03.2017
    Marowit said:

    We wanted the farm machines to be something more strategical, where you have to start the right machine at the right time, not just have them running constantly and not care about them, reducing them to just another round of automatic clicks.

    Is there a CC running and you are about to harvest allot of eggs? Start the machine before you harvest.

    They are supposed to be an on demand booster as opposed to an always on booster, we already have those form the Library Books.

    Marowit, thanks very much for your straight answers.

    I have a big farm (Lvl 198) and I play quite a lot.  Your philosophy on tractors stated above was precisely what my experience was BEFORE you all decided to lower the drop rate of toolboxes.  I had to be careful about using my tractors and saving up enough toolboxes to be prepared to take advantage of them when a good opportunity presented itself.  So I understood why most of the players in my co-op, who don't have farms as big and who can't play as much as I do, don't have and don't use tractors. It's just a colossal waste of time for them and does their farm no good.

    Now with the new drop rate, it's just a colossal waste of time for me, as well. Instead of reducing tractors to just another round of automatic clicks (which at least would be welcome and helpful), you've reduced them to unwanted, unusable distractions from farming.  Which one is worse?

    Edited to add:  In other words, you had it right before, but then to prevent a few from exploiting the situation, you made it very wrong.
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 17.03.2017
    By the way, why do we keep hearing this crazy argument that somehow the extra levels are the problem in this disastrous silo/composter change.  They did add 44 percent more land last September......which, if you consider that you cannot have more farmhouses, etc., means that production capacity went up by much more than that.  So why shouldn't tools have gone up then?  Going up actually makes sense.  GGS is in a bubble here.
    Post edited by gavinfarms (US1) on
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    Back to tools for a moment........

    I think we are going to just have to get used to a world with almost no tools in it.  There will be occasional tools, but apparently that is all.  They just don't get it.  Market orders, missions, and general game play has been slowed down quite a lot by this change to silos and composters.  Farms are less profitable.  At some point, we have to assume that this is exactly what they wanted to happen.  The ripple effect through my farm was quite significant and readily noticeable.

  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,526
    Back to tools for a moment........

    I think we are going to just have to get used to a world with almost no tools in it.  There will be occasional tools, but apparently that is all.  They just don't get it.  Market orders, missions, and general game play has been slowed down quite a lot by this change to silos and composters.  Farms are less profitable.  At some point, we have to assume that this is exactly what they wanted to happen.  The ripple effect through my farm was quite significant and readily noticeable.

    Well, you still do get a lot of tools from your stables alone and I think that part of the strategy is not having unlimited tools; you need to think wisely when and where to use them when activating machines.

    I only have 14 stables yet I believe I earn about 4-6 tools a day on average from them. In my opinion, that's not a bad amount. I'm sure players with a lot more stables would earn way more than I would.
  • Rusty Farmer (AU1)Rusty Farmer (AU1) AU1 Posts: 1,705
    edited 21.03.2017
    Why up the maximum tools to 500 if it is almost impossible to get there? Based on Meela's comments, I really do think he is looking at rebalancing this issue. We just need to be patient. :)
  • Spurgiukas (INT1)Spurgiukas (INT1) INT1 Posts: 235
    In two days I got 18 tools. And I wasnt playing that much. For me bigger problem is getting certificates,because I'm too lazy to participate in missions. :(
  • farmerjohn 22 (US1)farmerjohn 22 (US1) US1 Posts: 37,770
    edited 22.03.2017
    Hello and welcome to our forum, Meela.  :) I know that you must have your reasons for lowering the drop rate on Tools, but I would like to add my 2 cents to what others have already said. The lower Tool drop rate is not a good thing for either the players or the company. How so? Just look at it from the player's point of view. As it stands right now, a player wanting to build the new machines must stop using Tools on a daily basis, and even then the accumulation of Tools is painfully slow. That also means that the players aren't using the gold spending option for the machines because it requires Tools they cannot spare. No Tools = No gold spent. Just my opinion.  ;)

                                    photo 149020525950014_zpsvkdnxjrsgif              
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    Any news on tools yet?
  • contrary (US1)contrary (US1) US1 Posts: 122
    What was the reasoning behind making players build a fishing related Hoover Craft before being allowed to build the Road Runner? Most everyone would like more storage but not everyone fishes. Those  players who choose not to fish are being penalized by having to waste 170 tool boxes to build something worthless to them.
  • I am angry.

    there is no way you can balance out a game like this. there is too big a difference between people who buy gold and those who do not.

    even in a game in which you do not have a money gap, you always have those players who are way more into the game than the rest.

    in a game like Big Farm where you can be overzealous and buy gold to speed things up I can understand that things can get ridiculous. but trying to slow those people down is even more so.

    in my opinion the Powerhouse was the most useful tractor.

    by lowering the drop rate of Toolboxes you have now made it impossible for me at level 212 to use the 50% boost of the Powerhouse every 7 hours. just in case some of you who do not sleep and/or work are thinking "of course you can", well I work and sleep. playing about 5 hours a day, now means that I cannot get at least 8 Toolboxes to use the 50% boost of the Powerhouse. which means that I cannot do as well in any of the events. which means also that I end up making quite a bit less of farm dollars by just selling overstock or by filling up market orders.

    the bad stuff does not stop there.

    if I m not even getting enough Toolboxes to run my Powerhouse as often as I would like. that means that I m not even using the other tractors beyond their first two abilities. if I can t get enough Greenhouse Humus with the Special Press, that means that I cannot grow enough fruits to sell to the boat to get enough horseshoes to train my horses to ...

    Tractors were the best thing that had been added to this game since it s creation. it s very good for people who do not buy gold and it s even better for those who do. tractors were good for everyone. not anymore. 
     
    tell me, what s the point of me going for months to build up these new tractors if when I have them I can t use them because I can t get enough Toolboxes to do so??

    bring back the old drop rate and just make the Toolbox cost for the new tractors more than they are now. by doing it that way we will be able to use the tractors that we already have while slowly collecting enough to buy the ones we do not.

    anyways, by now, don t all the people that you were trying to slow down with this idea already have the new tractors. which means that at this point you are only playing "keep away" with the rest of us who do not have them.
  • Rusty Farmer (AU1)Rusty Farmer (AU1) AU1 Posts: 1,705
    edited 25.03.2017
    Meela said:
    Regarding the toolbox drop rate, I'll first try to explain why your composters sometimes drop 1 and sometimes 0 and then I'll touch on the possibility of tuning the numbers:

    1) The drop mechanic is one of the clunkiest we have in Big Farm. It is hard to work with and hard to understand for new players because of the random element and no easy overview of all the things that drop from a certain building.

    It is even worse for toolboxes, because while they seem to drop in integer amounts (1,2,3...), each toolbox is actually composed of 100 subpieces. And your buildings are dropping these subpieces, not the whole toolboxes like with other drops. You can imagine it as the game having a personal counter for your tools - your chicken coop drops 10 tool pieces each production (not a real number) but you can only see your tool drop when that counter reaches 100. That's why it seems like 9/10 times, harvesting your chickencoop gives no tools at all, whereas it actually always gives you some tool pieces, it just goes 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 - and only at 100 you as a player actually see something happening.

    So, do not totally disregard the stables when it comes to tools, they contribute in their own way bit by bit, unlike the flashy way of a fully stacked silo.

    2) I'll look into the numbers again, especially for new places in the game where tools could be given out. So no going back to silo and composter being so much better than the other buildings, more akin to some suggestions in this thread, like a lab recipe, buildings on other farms etc. While making the silo and composter worse was justified, not offering a new alternative wasn't, so I'll try to fix that.
    Just to remind everyone that Meela recognises there is a problem here and is addressing it already, so there's no need to keep bashing him and harping on about it. :)
  • Basically you have made it into something where gold is needed if anyone wants any hope of building their machines by buying the toolboxes while using their other machines during a Champ.

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