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Comments
Is the "personal counter" that you mention a single counter used for all buildings, or is it broken up into individual buckets for a single building or building type? That is to say, if I hit 99 toolpieces on the silo and then hit a chicken coop for 1 toolpiece, will that drop a toolbox, or do I need to hit 100 toolpieces directly on the silo itself?
They often want to make things harder to encourage people to play for a long time, but sometimes they go too far, like they did this time. They do not seem to "get" that.
Meela, thanks for reading my suggestions. and acknowledging them
Even though it is advantageous more for higher level players, I would still like the farm lab to create tool boxes as an option, in addition to other suggested changes. Higher level players who have worked long and hard on this game (in my case over 4 years) should find things easier, not more difficult. That should be the reward for all the time and money invested in the game, to be on top of things and not struggling as much, though still finding the game challenging.
SUGGESTION FOR HOT FIX: Meela, could you consider temporarily lowering the parts required for tools from 100 to 80 say as a temporary fix to keep us a little happier until a more balanced, permanent solution is found?
I'm also happy with the idea of a passive farm machines takes off a certain amount of tool parts required, say 5 per level, which means at level 7 you would only need 65 parts.
Another passive farm machine suggestion - one that decreases the cost only of the high level buildings the likes of Matilda's Lester's, and Farm Lab, not the gold cost, but the farm cash cost. At level 7 it would decrease the farm cash costs by 70%. This would give a bit more impetus to go higher levels on those buildings.
excellent ideas as usual !!! :-) Quick solutions to fix the wrong doing
All buildings have the same "pool" of drops, so whatever you harvest goes into the same TP "pool", that is why sometimes you can harvest stables and end up getting a tool from corn, because the stables got you to almost 100 TP and the corn gave you the last TP you needed.
All buildings keep the same TP per second ration as they upgrade.
However it is easier to get tools as you progress as you have more and more buildings.
We wanted the farm machines to be something more strategical, where you have to start the right machine at the right time, not just have them running constantly and not care about them, reducing them to just another round of automatic clicks.
Is there a CC running and you are about to harvest allot of eggs? Start the machine before you harvest.
They are supposed to be an on demand booster as opposed to an always on booster, we already have those form the Library Books.
I would like to ask for more detail, such as if every building drops a guaranteed number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, or if it's a *chance* of a drop of a certain number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, but I'm not sure how much detail you'd be allowed to go into, so I won't press it.
Greatly appreciate the info you have provided however, it gives us a good insight on how it works behind the curtain, and allows those of us who are interested good information on how to customize our farms to further increase toolbox drops ourselves.
THX @Southern (US1) for your way of questioning. You're a gem!!
thank you, very helpful, the more you explain and the more we get the situation clear.
I do however have still a big objection to your designing
The toolbox drop rate was insufficient to supply enough tool boxes to operate the machines which need activation. Further to that, you decreased the output of toolboxes from silo and composter to what you thought it should be, making the paucity of toolboxes even more dramatic
I see every day strategic reasons to use the powerhouse, for example, not just a CC, but to fill a market order, or to contribute produce to a cooperative project.
And now we have (I don't have them yet) new machines, they require hundreds tool boxes just to build level 1
If the machines have to be used, as you just said, once in a while whenever the few tool boxes become available, then I ask you:
why did you add to this situation the huge obstacle of collecting hundreds toolboxes just to build level 1 ? How about to have level 1 from the very start instead, or allow to build it using much fewer tool boxes similarly to the following upgrades ?
According to your plan, players will have to be level 100+ before they can have a few machines, and who knows what level they will need to reach before they can activate one
This way you change nothing in the game logic, just take advantage of something already implemented, only tweaking some numbers (your realm )... And you also don't introduce spurious temporary changes.
Is there any possibility for you guys to release an official statement or announcement regarding the tool box dropping issue with a summary of the guiding lines you've already had the patience to explain here?
I'm asking this because it's not an issue easy to justify to our fellow players specially to those who didn't had the chance to follow this very enlightening discussion about the theme here in the EN forum. It would very much appreciated if you could take that request in consideration.
Thank you in advance for your time
Interesting explanation and I get the essence of what you're saying there except we never get tools from fields, so we'd never get it from harvesting corn, unless this is a little hint of how tools drops will be tweaked in the future.
As I've suggested in Meela's thread, a quick hot fix that would keep us happier until a more balanced and permanent solution is implemented is to simply drop the 100 tool parts required to say 80 in the meantime.
2. On the issue of running the machines. I can tell that you still do not understand how the machines were being used. They were not just another round of "automatic clicks". A person already had to pick and choose when to use them. The Amphibian and Stackmaster require tools, thus taking them away from potential use by other machines. You cut tools by about 50 percent right there, and then cut them from the Silo and Composter as discussed. If the machines are going to be run less (and you have made this the case), then you have rebalanced the organic market and the CC and the whole game. It still seems that you do not understand the "ripple effect" of this horrible decision.
The powerhouse will work just fine without tools, it will just only be at 10% or 20% instead of 50% or 80% without tools. Same with the Humus Pro, Special Press, Farm Flash, Amphibian, and Stackmaster.
I never understood why someone would want to use 3 Tools *just* for an extra 10 bakery products anyway. 3 tools for an extra 10 fruitcakes worth $7,140? I guess if you didn't have anything *else* to use tools on..
We'll just have to be a bit more selective in which *level* of the tractors that we activate. Was 3 tools *worth* 4 premium humus when you could get 2 *without* the use of toolboxes?
Granted, I'm guilty of knowing that because I could easily get 30+ toolboxes a day, I could activate the 3rd level of every tractor as often as it became available (every 3-4 hours), and I'm going to have to adjust my own expectations in that regard. Maybe I'll only activate the PowerHouse at the 50% level once a day instead of 5 times a day.
It'll slow me down, but it won't stop me.
The tools drop every time the same amount, but it depends on what you produce with what building.
There are 2 things taken into account: Building and Duration of Cycle.
Each Building and Duration of Cycle have a different TP per second rate.
For example speed feed and regular feed do not have the same TP/sec, even though you activate the same building and get the same outcome on both cases.
This applies to event drops as well not just tools, however other drops also drop in different amount from the same Production.
10% - 20% instead of 50% - 80% ...... only this very imperceptible difference right ?
I would agree with you IF that 10-20% increase had a shorter cool down period than the 50% - 80% options, but unfortunately this is not the case
It seems to me that the difference between 20% and 80% is quite a big one
Moreover, if I can continuously activate the machines, 10-20% without tools, then @Marovit 's argument that the designers had envisioned these machines to be an occasional extra to be planned strategically is not a valid point anymore
Again @Southern (US1), you're a gem!
You just described exactly how I have been using my farm machines up until now. I've always used my toolboxes as sparingly as possible. I only used the 3rd option for a farm machine sometimes during CC, and only once because we were likely not to finish a coop project in time... The 2nd option of 2 machines runs 24/7, I have more than enough certificates and as I have been saving tools ever since the new machines were announced on twitter, I do have 257 tools now.
It may progress slowly this way, but I considered this (once again) being a challenge in the game and I can be patient.
And thanks again @Marowit for your detailed explanation!
On the underlined portion........it does indeed seem to work this way on various other events. It is simply not the case with tools and cows vs. speedy cows.
What company would stay in business if they came 4 years later to say we are taking away yr stuff we gave you, too much I know I am laughing as I type. Be much easier to say we want you to buy gold so we will not give you gold protection we will not give you back your tool box drop rate. Reality is going to hit them when this does not happen. All this talk about strategy yada yada is cover up talk. Yes I speak plainly no beating around the bush no flowery speeches this game exists to make money it is a business they need to make players happy to keep us in the game and spending money so lets not pretend it is anything else. So glad to see they finally got around to bringing the Cat good timing too since morale is so low right now. Hope no one was holding their breath for three years. Thank you GGS and the contest nice idea.
(A) First, we really need for you to understand that you changed the balance of the game by a lot. (Leaving aside the building of the machines)....Adding two new machines that require tools for activation, cut the spending power of tools. This was cut again by the change to the silo/composter. Perhaps you all thought that we were using them too often. I was using the Powerhouse on level 3 with tools, twice per day. Whatever you may have thought, it has been that way, for well over a year. My market orders, my CC performance, my HW performance, are all based on that. I think that you underestimate just how much you effected my play and the play of others with this change. In the purest sense, in order to put things back as they were, you would have to do two things: (1) reverse the tool drop change on the composter and silo and (2) provide new tools for the activation of the two new machines (Amphibian and Stackmaster). I am not proposing that you do this.
As a compromise, I suggest that you correct this with the following: (1) Reverse the tool drop change on the silo/composter and (2) Do not add additional tools beyond that for the two new machines. Then people can choose to live as before and activate the 4 old machines as they always did, or to activate those less often and make room to activate the new ones with tools from time to time. Put the choice on the user. Also, this would solve another great problem..... For people that can only play a few times per day, the bulk of their tools were coming from the silo and the composter, and these people really, really need this fix. I cannot stress that enough.
(B) Second, you mentioned something above that has been bothering me for days, even before you mentioned it, which has not been discussed enough. The tools do drop in integer amounts. This does cause the user to be unaware of any partial progress. I am glad that you see this. This makes the whole tool drop situation all the more frustrating. Solution: I suggest that you multiply all of the tool drops and tool costs by 100. You did this with xp points over a year ago. That worked just fine. If you did that, nothing would mathematically change, BUT people would see their progress more readily, which would make this whole situation much more tolerable. Instead of having 40 percent of a tool (which they cannot see) they would have 40 tools. And instead of the cost of a machine being 120 tools, it would be 12,000 tools.
(C) Lastly, as a footnote, if you all thought that people were building the machines too fast, I am open to raising the cost of building them, but only if the silo/composter situation is restored........this silo/composter adjustment is important - I think you all just really are not understanding how much that hurt many mid-level farmers.
Look at the bold passage above. This would suggest to me that every 10th chicken harvest, I would see a tool drop. This definitively does not happen. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying? Or were you just using 10 as an example, when in actuality it is much lower?
You just want more numbers out of me and try to get that by making me give you exact cases
I'm looking at the Tool drops for the cows right now and I can tell you for sure it is different, you get 3 times more TP from regular feed as opposed to speedy feed, but the timer is 16 times longer for the regular feed.
How ever due to the fact that you get pieces, which are invisible to you, it could indeed look like it doesn't work properly.
Abovt drop rate for tools:
As I manage to buy 1 level of all machines drop rate of tools increased drasticaly. This was for a week or two. Than we recive 4 new machine and drop rate fall down for 50%. Now I recive just 2 to 3 tools per day.