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  • Damaria3 (US1)Damaria3 (US1) US1 Posts: 1,737
    I guess people who only get to play an hour or two will be heavily penalized and may not want to bother with the tractors at all and will take new players so long will they ever care about them. To be frank I did not bother much at all with them until six months ago so we can play without the tractors for sure
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    Meela said:
    Regarding the toolbox drop rate, I'll first try to explain why your composters sometimes drop 1 and sometimes 0 and then I'll touch on the possibility of tuning the numbers:

    1) The drop mechanic is one of the clunkiest we have in Big Farm. It is hard to work with and hard to understand for new players because of the random element and no easy overview of all the things that drop from a certain building.

    It is even worse for toolboxes, because while they seem to drop in integer amounts (1,2,3...), each toolbox is actually composed of 100 subpieces. And your buildings are dropping these subpieces, not the whole toolboxes like with other drops. You can imagine it as the game having a personal counter for your tools - your chicken coop drops 10 tool pieces each production (not a real number) but you can only see your tool drop when that counter reaches 100. That's why it seems like 9/10 times, harvesting your chickencoop gives no tools at all, whereas it actually always gives you some tool pieces, it just goes 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 - and only at 100 you as a player actually see something happening.

    So, do not totally disregard the stables when it comes to tools, they contribute in their own way bit by bit, unlike the flashy way of a fully stacked silo.

    2) I'll look into the numbers again, especially for new places in the game where tools could be given out. So no going back to silo and composter being so much better than the other buildings, more akin to some suggestions in this thread, like a lab recipe, buildings on other farms etc. While making the silo and composter worse was justified, not offering a new alternative wasn't, so I'll try to fix that.
    Meela, one question about the ToolBox "subpieces", if I may:

    Is the "personal counter" that you mention a single counter used for all buildings, or is it broken up into individual buckets for a single building or building type?  That is to say, if I hit 99 toolpieces on the silo and then hit a chicken coop for 1 toolpiece, will that drop a toolbox, or do I need to hit 100 toolpieces directly on the silo itself?

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • PCA (GB1)PCA (GB1) GB1 Posts: 839
    @Rusty Farmer (AU1)

    excellent ideas as usual !!!  :-)  Quick solutions to fix the wrong doing


  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    Marowit said:

    All buildings have the same "pool" of drops, so whatever you harvest goes into the same TP "pool", that is why sometimes you can harvest stables and end up getting a tool from corn, because the stables got you to almost 100 TP and the corn gave you the last TP you needed.


    All buildings keep the same TP per second ration as they upgrade.

    However it is easier to get tools as you progress as you have more and more buildings.

    We wanted the farm machines to be something more strategical, where you have to start the right machine at the right time, not just have them running constantly and not care about them, reducing them to just another round of automatic clicks.

    Is there a CC running and you are about to harvest allot of eggs? Start the machine before you harvest.

    They are supposed to be an on demand booster as opposed to an always on booster, we already have those form the Library Books.

    THX Marowit, I am slowly beginning to comprehend what you are saying and the system behind tool drops and the working of the farm machines. Highly appreciated!!
    THX @Southern (US1)  for your way of questioning. You're a gem!! Bloemen Smileys Smileys en emoticons


    Sig designed by farmerjohn 22 (US1). THX!!

     

  • PCA (GB1)PCA (GB1) GB1 Posts: 839
    edited 15.03.2017
    @Marowit

    thank you, very helpful, the more you explain and the more we get the situation clear.  

    I do however have still a big objection to your designing

    The toolbox drop rate was insufficient to supply enough tool boxes to operate the machines which need activation. Further to that, you decreased the output of toolboxes from silo and composter to what you thought it should be, making the paucity of toolboxes even more dramatic

    I see every day strategic reasons to use the powerhouse, for example, not just a CC, but to fill a market order, or to contribute produce to a cooperative project.

    And now we have (I don't have them yet) new machines, they require hundreds tool boxes just to build level 1


    If the machines have to be used, as you just said, once in a while whenever the few tool boxes become available, then I ask you:

    why did you add to this situation the huge obstacle of collecting hundreds toolboxes just to build level 1 ? How about to have level 1 from the very start instead, or allow to build it using much fewer tool boxes similarly to the following upgrades ?

    According to your plan, players will have to be level 100+ before they can have a few machines, and who knows what level they will need to reach before they can activate one



  • @ Marowit

    Is there any possibility for you guys to release an official statement or announcement regarding the tool box dropping issue with a summary of the guiding lines you've already had the patience to explain here?
    I'm asking this because it's not an issue easy to justify to our fellow players specially to those who didn't had the chance to follow this very enlightening discussion about the theme here in the EN forum. It would very much appreciated if you could take that request in consideration.
    Thank you in advance for your time :)
    "If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all." - Noam Chomsky
    "Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning." - Albert Einstein

  • MarowitMarowit Big Farm Team Posts: 59
    Marowit said:

    All buildings have the same "pool" of drops, so whatever you harvest goes into the same TP "pool", that is why sometimes you can harvest stables and end up getting a tool from corn, because the stables got you to almost 100 TP and the corn gave you the last TP you needed.


    Thank you Marowit, that does indeed confirm my hypothesis on why some folks do not see a drop from a full composter run several times in a row.

    I would like to ask for more detail, such as if every building drops a guaranteed number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, or if it's a *chance* of a drop of a certain number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, but I'm not sure how much detail you'd be allowed to go into, so I won't press it. :)

    Greatly appreciate the info you have provided however, it gives us a good insight on how it works behind the curtain, and allows those of us who are interested good information on how to customize our farms to further increase toolbox drops ourselves. :)

    @Southern (US1)

    The tools drop every time the same amount, but it depends on what you produce with what building.

    There are 2 things taken into account: Building and Duration of Cycle.

    Each Building and Duration of Cycle have a different TP per second rate. 

    For example speed feed and regular feed do not have the same TP/sec, even though you activate the same building and get the same outcome on both cases.

    This applies to event drops as well not just tools, however other drops also drop in different amount from the same Production.

     





  • thanks... ;)
  • Southern (US1)Southern (US1) US1 Posts: 3,268
    Marowit said:
    Marowit said:

    All buildings have the same "pool" of drops, so whatever you harvest goes into the same TP "pool", that is why sometimes you can harvest stables and end up getting a tool from corn, because the stables got you to almost 100 TP and the corn gave you the last TP you needed.


    Thank you Marowit, that does indeed confirm my hypothesis on why some folks do not see a drop from a full composter run several times in a row.

    I would like to ask for more detail, such as if every building drops a guaranteed number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, or if it's a *chance* of a drop of a certain number of tool pieces over a specified period of time, but I'm not sure how much detail you'd be allowed to go into, so I won't press it. :)

    Greatly appreciate the info you have provided however, it gives us a good insight on how it works behind the curtain, and allows those of us who are interested good information on how to customize our farms to further increase toolbox drops ourselves. :)

    @Southern (US1)

    The tools drop every time the same amount, but it depends on what you produce with what building.

    There are 2 things taken into account: Building and Duration of Cycle.

    Each Building and Duration of Cycle have a different TP per second rate. 

    For example speed feed and regular feed do not have the same TP/sec, even though you activate the same building and get the same outcome on both cases.

    This applies to event drops as well not just tools, however other drops also drop in different amount from the same Production.

    Can't thank you enough for the final piece of that puzzle, Marowit.  That pretty much completes the picture. :+1:

    Success Team is an active, friendly co-op looking for daily adult players. Click here if interested or apply in game today! :)
  • PCA (GB1)PCA (GB1) GB1 Posts: 839
    No Farm Tractor *requires* the use of tools to be used.

    The powerhouse will work just fine without tools, it will just only be at 10% or 20% instead of 50% or 80% without tools.  Same with the Humus Pro, Special Press, Farm Flash, Amphibian, and Stackmaster. 


    It'll slow me down, but it won't stop me. :)

    10% - 20% instead of 50% - 80% ......  only this very imperceptible difference right ?   ;)

    I would agree with you IF that 10-20% increase had a shorter cool down period than the 50% - 80% options, but unfortunately this is not the case

    It seems to me that the difference between 20% and 80% is quite a big one 

    Moreover, if I can continuously activate the machines, 10-20% without tools, then @Marovit 's argument that the designers had envisioned these machines to be an occasional extra to be planned strategically is not a valid point anymore


    :smile:

  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 15.03.2017
    No Farm Tractor *requires* the use of tools to be used.

    The powerhouse will work just fine without tools, it will just only be at 10% or 20% instead of 50% or 80% without tools.  Same with the Humus Pro, Special Press, Farm Flash, Amphibian, and Stackmaster. 

    I never understood why someone would want to use 3 Tools *just* for an extra 10 bakery products anyway. 3 tools for an extra 10 fruitcakes worth $7,140? I guess if you didn't have anything *else* to use tools on..

    We'll just have to be a bit more selective in which *level* of the tractors that we activate.  Was 3 tools *worth* 4 premium humus when you could get 2 *without* the use of toolboxes?

    Granted, I'm guilty of knowing that because I could easily get 30+ toolboxes a day, I could activate the 3rd level of every tractor as often as it became available (every 3-4 hours), and I'm going to have to adjust my own expectations in that regard. Maybe I'll only activate the PowerHouse at the 50% level once a day instead of 5 times a day.

    It'll slow me down, but it won't stop me. :)


    Again @Southern (US1), you're a gem!

    You just described exactly how I have been using my farm machines up until now. I've always used my toolboxes as sparingly as possible. I only used the 3rd option for a farm machine sometimes during CC, and only once because we were likely not to finish a coop project in time... The 2nd option of 2 machines runs 24/7, I have more than enough certificates and as I have been saving tools ever since the new machines were announced on twitter, I do have 257 tools now.

    It may progress slowly this way, but I considered this (once again) being a challenge in the game and I can be patient. 

    And thanks again @Marowit for your detailed explanation! :+1:


    Sig designed by farmerjohn 22 (US1). THX!!

     

  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    Marowit said:

    The tools drop every time the same amount, but it depends on what you produce with what building.

    There are 2 things taken into account: Building and Duration of Cycle.

    Each Building and Duration of Cycle have a different TP per second rate. 

    For example speed feed and regular feed do not have the same TP/sec, even though you activate the same building and get the same outcome on both cases.

    This applies to event drops as well not just tools, however other drops also drop in different amount from the same Production.

     





    The reason that I keep saying that I do not understand the tool drops from stables (pigs, cows, and chickens), is because that statement above, that I have put in bold, is simply not happening in the game.  I believe you that you may mean for it to work that way, but it does not.  Speedy cows vs regular cows demonstrate this more obviously than others.

    On the underlined portion........it does indeed seem to work this way on various other events.  It is simply not the case with tools and cows vs. speedy cows.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • IMO saying to use options 1 & 2 is irrelevant in a discussion about toolboxes. Why have options 3 & 4 if we cannot use them without buying the toolboxes, when (as I pointed out on Meela's thread) we could spend less gold to simply speed up the bakery instead of using the farm flash. Options 1 & 2 require certificates instead & I am not a fan of doing missions, I can get the few certificates required for options 3 & 4 from doing a daily mission, but I can no longer get the required toolboxes. By saying use options 1 & 2 that is just admitting that there is a problem with the toolbox options.
     
  • Damaria3 (US1)Damaria3 (US1) US1 Posts: 1,737
    Love yr post @RaquelCesar (GB1)  yes that makes sense  They had an aha moment of oh no are  they getting that many tools no wonder we aren't selling tools with gold  we will fix that.
    What company would stay in business if they came 4 years later to say we are taking away yr stuff we gave you, too much  I know I am laughing as I type.  Be much easier to say we want you to buy gold so we will not give you gold protection we will not give you back your tool box drop rate. Reality is going to hit them when this does not happen. All this talk about strategy yada yada is cover up talk.  Yes I speak plainly no beating around the bush no flowery speeches this game exists to make money it is a business they need to make players happy to keep us in the game and spending money so lets not pretend it is anything else.  So glad to see they finally got around to bringing the Cat  good timing too since morale is so low right now. Hope no one was holding their breath for three years.  Thank you GGS and the contest nice idea.
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    Meela said:
    Regarding the toolbox drop rate, I'll first try to explain why your composters sometimes drop 1 and sometimes 0 and then I'll touch on the possibility of tuning the numbers:

    1) The drop mechanic is one of the clunkiest we have in Big Farm. It is hard to work with and hard to understand for new players because of the random element and no easy overview of all the things that drop from a certain building.

    It is even worse for toolboxes, because while they seem to drop in integer amounts (1,2,3...), each toolbox is actually composed of 100 subpieces. And your buildings are dropping these subpieces, not the whole toolboxes like with other drops. You can imagine it as the game having a personal counter for your tools - your chicken coop drops 10 tool pieces each production (not a real number) but you can only see your tool drop when that counter reaches 100. That's why it seems like 9/10 times, harvesting your chickencoop gives no tools at all, whereas it actually always gives you some tool pieces, it just goes 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 - and only at 100 you as a player actually see something happening.

    So, do not totally disregard the stables when it comes to tools, they contribute in their own way bit by bit, unlike the flashy way of a fully stacked silo.

    2) I'll look into the numbers again, especially for new places in the game where tools could be given out. So no going back to silo and composter being so much better than the other buildings, more akin to some suggestions in this thread, like a lab recipe, buildings on other farms etc. While making the silo and composter worse was justified, not offering a new alternative wasn't, so I'll try to fix that.

    Look at the bold passage above.  This would suggest to me that every 10th chicken harvest, I would see a tool drop.  This definitively does not happen.  Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?  Or were you just using 10 as an example, when in actuality it is much lower?
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • ashim (IN1)ashim (IN1) IN1 Posts: 572
    Meela said:
    Regarding the toolbox drop rate, I'll first try to explain why your composters sometimes drop 1 and sometimes 0 and then I'll touch on the possibility of tuning the numbers:

    1) The drop mechanic is one of the clunkiest we have in Big Farm. It is hard to work with and hard to understand for new players because of the random element and no easy overview of all the things that drop from a certain building.

    It is even worse for toolboxes, because while they seem to drop in integer amounts (1,2,3...), each toolbox is actually composed of 100 subpieces. And your buildings are dropping these subpieces, not the whole toolboxes like with other drops. You can imagine it as the game having a personal counter for your tools - your chicken coop drops 10 tool pieces each production (not a real number) but you can only see your tool drop when that counter reaches 100. That's why it seems like 9/10 times, harvesting your chickencoop gives no tools at all, whereas it actually always gives you some tool pieces, it just goes 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 - and only at 100 you as a player actually see something happening.

    So, do not totally disregard the stables when it comes to tools, they contribute in their own way bit by bit, unlike the flashy way of a fully stacked silo.

    2) I'll look into the numbers again, especially for new places in the game where tools could be given out. So no going back to silo and composter being so much better than the other buildings, more akin to some suggestions in this thread, like a lab recipe, buildings on other farms etc. While making the silo and composter worse was justified, not offering a new alternative wasn't, so I'll try to fix that.

    Look at the bold passage above.  This would suggest to me that every 10th chicken harvest, I would see a tool drop.  This definitively does not happen.  Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?  Or were you just using 10 as an example, when in actuality it is much lower?
    10 chicken doesnt giving a tool , I noticed one thing that if we collect 55 stable from mf then we will get 1 tool only ..
  • Lylu (INT1)Lylu (INT1) INT1 Posts: 448
    edited 16.03.2017
    Meela said:
    Regarding the toolbox drop rate, I'll first try to explain why your composters sometimes drop 1 and sometimes 0 and then I'll touch on the possibility of tuning the numbers:

    1) The drop mechanic is one of the clunkiest we have in Big Farm. It is hard to work with and hard to understand for new players because of the random element and no easy overview of all the things that drop from a certain building.

    It is even worse for toolboxes, because while they seem to drop in integer amounts (1,2,3...), each toolbox is actually composed of 100 subpieces. And your buildings are dropping these subpieces, not the whole toolboxes like with other drops. You can imagine it as the game having a personal counter for your tools - your chicken coop drops 10 tool pieces each production (not a real number) but you can only see your tool drop when that counter reaches 100. That's why it seems like 9/10 times, harvesting your chickencoop gives no tools at all, whereas it actually always gives you some tool pieces, it just goes 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90 - and only at 100 you as a player actually see something happening.

    So, do not totally disregard the stables when it comes to tools, they contribute in their own way bit by bit, unlike the flashy way of a fully stacked silo.

    2) I'll look into the numbers again, especially for new places in the game where tools could be given out. So no going back to silo and composter being so much better than the other buildings, more akin to some suggestions in this thread, like a lab recipe, buildings on other farms etc. While making the silo and composter worse was justified, not offering a new alternative wasn't, so I'll try to fix that.

    Look at the bold passage above.  This would suggest to me that every 10th chicken harvest, I would see a tool drop.  This definitively does not happen.  Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?  Or were you just using 10 as an example, when in actuality it is much lower?
    @gavinfarms (US1) Re-read the bold passage you highlighted and pay particular attention the the words in parentheses and you will have the answer to your question.
  • gavinfarms (US1)gavinfarms (US1) US1 Posts: 2,273
    edited 16.03.2017
    Another example with the silo........I understand what @CM iSac and @Meela are saying in regards to partial tools that we cannot "see", but I am not sure if it working as described.  I did two giant loads of fertilizer and did not get a tool.  I understand that on one, I might not see a tool drop, but not twice, given the partial tools that I cannot see.  I am just not sure if it is working even as is described.  This is another reason to "multiply by 100" as I described above to get these partial tools out in the open, where we can see them and keep track of them.
    gavinfarms @ us 1
  • MarowitMarowit Big Farm Team Posts: 59
    edited 16.03.2017
    @gavinfarms (US1)

    You just want more numbers out of me and try to get that by making me give you exact cases  :p

    I'm looking at the Tool drops for the cows right now and I can tell you for sure it is different, you get 3 times more TP from regular feed as opposed to speedy feed, but the timer is 16 times longer for the regular feed.

    How ever due to the fact that you get pieces, which are invisible to you, it could indeed look like it doesn't work properly.

  • ttt34 (INT1)ttt34 (INT1) INT1 Posts: 240

    Abovt drop rate for tools:

    As I manage to buy 1 level of all machines drop rate of tools increased drasticaly. This was for a week or two. Than we recive 4 new machine and drop rate fall down for 50%. Now I recive just 2 to 3 tools per day.

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