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Brat Pack Not Participating in Next Coop Challenge
FarmerMarkD (US1)
US1 Posts: 119
Since I am posting this on the US and EN forums, I wanted to introduce myself. I’m FarmerMarkD - Mark - co-leader with @marywisc (US1) of the Brat Pack, the #1 coop on the US server. I apologize in advance for the length of this post, but we have a lot to say.
The Brat Pack has decided as a group not to participate in the next coop challenge for many reasons unless major changes are made to the new structure. First let me say that I completely understand that GGS is a business, and all that that implies. I’m hoping this can be a positive post, letting GGS know what our coop feels about the changes to the coop challenge, and that positive results might come from them having this information.
Let’s start with the good. It’s great that GGS listened to some of the users’ complaints about the coop challenge:
- · The coop challenge is now coming less frequently, between the islands. The frequency was becoming wearing and tiresome, and many in our coop were burning out. This is a great adjustment
- · The solo mission fix was a good one. It’s great not to have every mission be a solo all day long.
- · The league structure is a good one. It gives coops a chance to compete against their peers instead of one huge group with everyone competing against the most established, top coops for the top prizes.
Thanks very much for listening to our concerns and addressing them.
Now the bad:
- · One of the major complaints in the past was the reputation point buys that were available during the challenge. Instead of evening the playing field in some way, this issue was made far, far worse with the latest iteration of the challenge with more shopping bags, more boosters, more ways to buy points.
- · The new Wheel of Fortune during the challenge is a disaster. It should be called the Wheel of Silage. Most of the prizes are the fast pig and cow feed, which we can produce cheaply and easily on our farms. As we saw from the outcome of the challenge, many folks were spinning many, many times in order to build up rep points and get to the top spots, with the prize of 1m rep points. This is certainly a win for GGS, as folks spent a lot of gold to get those prizes, but not a win for the users. It took a lot of spins just to get to the top 500 for double experience points, as folks were spinning for the rep points.
- · The new booster system is not a good one. The coop boosters are much more expensive to run. To compound this problem, the personal boosters were also very expensive, so our members needed to save their farm cash and gold to run their own personal boosters, and could not contribute as much to the coop for the coop boosters for fear of bankrupting their farms.
- · The hard worker prizes were a mixed bag. Some were great - gold mining certs, goldflower seeds, seaweed. Most of the prizes were pretty lousy though, and the amount of rep points to get them was very high. The top prize, for 100m rep points, seems way out of proportion. As far as I am aware, only 2 coops on the US server reached this level and won that prize. In past challenges, few coops have EVER reached 100m rep points in a challenge. This makes the top hard worker prize out of reach for most everyone in the game. To add insult to injury, many of our members (and others in other coops) never received this prize or many of the other hard work rewards. We were promised them at the end of the challenge due to a programming glitch, but they have yet to show up for many of my members.
The issues with this new system can be seen by glancing at the top 3 individual rep point earners on the US Server in this challenge - who earned a combined 155m + rep points during the challenge. I don’t fault these individuals for what they have accomplished - they played within the rules of the game as GGS created it and did very, very well. But to put it in perspective, if these top three players had been in one coop - with NO other players in the coop - they would have placed 2nd overall in the gold league on the US server. How is this a “coop championship” rewarding teamwork when 3 individuals, acting alone, could have placed second overall in this championship? It’s difficult for our coop to work hard, playing mission after mission, to achieve these hard work rewards and then watch as others just buy them. Really takes the fun out of the challenge for us.
Let me add this: Mary and I don’t have complete control over the other 63 players in our coop (though sometimes we certainly wish we did lol). You may see Brats in missions during the next coop challenge. We are asking our members at this point, though, not to do missions during the next challenge. We’ll be watching from the sidelines, hoping for positive changes. Best of luck to everyone.
Thanks for listening.
Comments
I typically spend 2000 - 3000 gold per challenge. I invested in my farms and made sacrifices there to make them more "mission driven".
Because of the higher number of mission types of this new CC it is now much more difficult, costly and takes time to get a good strategy going and hit beyond the 1 million rep points. Added to that the number of reputation points needed to get the 50 rewards in gold league is way too high. Some of the prizes were laughable: fast pig or cow food (dont remember exactly which) for the 45th reward in gold leaggue LOL
The rewards for the silver league were also so disappointing.
Yes, no solos, but I think lower level players are now more likely to be pinned against a higher level player in high leagues. Playing with almost no gold on the UK server in the silver league I couldn't do well in most of my missions against gold league players as they were going all in from the gate to try to get the most reputation points to achieve the 100 M target. Its very discouraging to know that before even hitting the start mission button you stand no chance. Did I see someone collect 51k dung? Yes. Because of the cost of the boosters and the 100 million rep target the gold league players were really going at it strong. They were just doing what it was required to meet this high target but by the same token discouraging the other mission players.
The fact that with the WoF you could get >12M reps a shot is very discouraging for those that work hard (with and without the use of gold)
I really liked the fact that we could see the rankings of the players and the points of the near ranking coops.
Unless GGS plans to have this challenge only every 6 months I don't see how most of us will be able to afford it in term of time commitment, $ and most and for all morale...
GGS got it right with the hard worker event (my opinion), can it serve as an inspiration for the next CC? Prizes are interesting and duration and frequency is reasonable...
I support Mark's comments and I dont want to play in the next CC (gold or silver league) if the format is not revised.
- Minimum # of reps to get the 50 prizes in gold league reduced (by ricochet affects all leagues)
- WoF - special seeds were good but the speedy food (command!) - reps should go only for the top 5 and top 50 players not during the first 8 and additional spins.
- Fairness of selection of players in a mission (ideally gold league players should have mission together, etc...)
- Quality of the prizes (special orchard for the top 10 were really appreciated)
- Revision of booster costs (esp the $), although if the minimum number of rep points to get to 50 rewards in gold league is reduced we will rely less on these and cost might not be such a big issue.
Dominique
as former leader of the nr2 coop in us server i support the messages above.
i already told our coop in end of the championship that this is the last championship i play if the wheel of fortune will stay like this. i already stopped playing the last 3 days this championship.
it was redicules and the developers could have known this. It was just a money grabbing introduction. And now maybe they say sorry we didnt know but belief me they did know. give players here an oppertunity to buy unlimeted rep points and there are players who will do.
i
i liked:
the different competitions so that more coops have a change to win in a competition
the boosters in mine opinion are ok. it cost freaking much to buy 50% so that there is less difference in extra reputation points you can get. it makes the boosters more equal for everyone.
that the solo missions where gone. yeahhh
that the buying rep ponts was not here (or did i miss it?)
i didnt like
THE WHEEL OF FURTUNE. i will only play again if this get changed. No more rep points during spins and only 1 miljon for the top5 in the end and 200,000 for top 50
The shopping bag (they have to disappear too)
the gold competition was in the dutch server only 8 teams and i think that is good. 20 like we had is to much. this will probably make coops sandbagging next time to go to silver
i can imagine that lower level players didnt like that they got missions with top players
I also dont see me going into another coop, I want to do my farm up the right way. Which is the primary reason I skipped the island. You need to sit down with the players and have an open discussion on challenges. I'd like to be able to decline a misson, for say milk. Unless your ready to harvest your cows for milk, your stuck with cow sileage and that is really the pits, that and the fact that goats dont harvest as quick. I'd rather see other things than the challenges, that you can't win because the challenge leans towards gold buyers.
I don't mind having the option of boosting co-ops and spending a LITTLE gold in missions (a little secret
The shopping bag was present again which is also another thing that is great if you are spending anyway but to spend only because the challenge is on - not so great.
The leaderboard for reputation points was massively changed with the outcome of one challenge - I mean the top 10 people before the challenge are now the top 25. Imagine what that board will look like after the next challenge if the wheel is still in place.
That being said, what happened to playing missions for fun and socialization? I love it when people say hi and start chatting - yes distractions work
One final comment - Missions should be about how you have built your farms and what is on them and not what is in the bank.
Connie
I will be joining the spectators from the sideline.
Good luck.
I Do Agree that most of the hard work prizes were simply the junk that we collect from our fields. Although having some of those things is good, to have almost everything be those kinds of things makes the competition so much less worth it. What's more, several people in my co-op have mentioned that they spent more time, more $$, & more gold on this challenge than with all the other previous challenges combined, & they will not be making anywhere near that kind of effort in the future unless some major changes are made. It would be nice if we could gain some nice decorations along the way to go along with what is currently being provided. I don't mean the bear under the tree, on the blanket...perhaps something that is harder to acquire & costs gold, or a significant amount of money to buy, or something new that is just for the co-op challenge. Many farms boast a blue tractor with pride....it was level 40...I have 2 of them on my main farm...it is a matter of pride in my accomplishments in the co-op challenge that I display my tractors. Furthermore, I believe that the top 10 co-ops in each division should receive a prize if not the tree, then the gold licenses or something like it. Competing in the gold league is much more difficult than any other league, & I believe we should be rewarded as such.
On another note, unless they changed the forum rules, I'm pretty sure the B word is against TOS.
Agree with Amaprincess and if you don't remove the "B" word and take it out of the title you and your post will get removed and you may get banned from the game. Read the TOS.
Edit***
It is also stated in the Community Guidelines 2016 about this:
https://community.goodgamestudios.com/bigfarm/en/discussion/122609/community-guidelines-2016
The fact that GGS would remotely think, that we, the players, would not be able to see that this new co op challenge was an even a bigger cash grab than the original format, is an insult to our intelligence.
We from "Mission Café", agree with Mark., Enough Already!!!!
HNC is both a top ten coop on the US server and one of the few that was able to complete the last challenge goal of 100 million rep pts in the gold league. A goal that is ridiculously to high and expensive to obtain.
However HNC will stand firmly with the well stated facts and postion by Mark and Mary the coleaders of Brat Pack, we do not like, enjoy or endorse the current cooperative challenge format.
The attrition on players and the draw down on hard earned personal and coop resources simply were not worth the rewards and small satisfaction of completing this challenge goal of 100 million points
HNC will also not be competing in the future challenges at the same level as it did this past challenge. We will be hopefully waiting for changes to the challenge format and then reassess our thoughts/postion.
This is supposed to be a fun competitive game on the internet, one with room for many different player and coop styles of play. One that makes people wanna play more and harder, not feel like they HAVE too.
It has sadly went over that line it seems and has become nothing about that anymore. It apparently has become a game where whoever spends the most will usually win. Where is the strategy/planning in that?
As stated, that is of course the cruel side of the business of this game. It is of course about making money and doing things to make more profits, that is what a business tends to do.
Hopefully there can be changes made, to find a fair balance in the game for all to continue to enjoy. It is a good game and would certainly like to see it be enjoyed by all at whatever level for a long time in the future.
Thank you for allowing me to post and taking the time to read my post. I hope i haven't offended anyone.
~Rick~
And that's just no fun
GGS (Greed game studios) needs to understand that fundamental fact: people don't want to waste money; they don't want spending competitions; they want skill, knowledge competitions. Start with that orientation and have a co-op skill, knowledge competition
I have suggested before that one way to do this is to lock out gold, seaweed from the competition. For example, for a competition, create an island where gold, seaweed doesn't count, share nothing with the regular farms (no shared fertilizers, feed, etc.) have a project (for example build a dam for all the co-op farms, a town hall, a fire dept, a park with swingsets, tables, barbecues and more; etc.) and all co-op farms can work on separate parts (some may go cut wood, some may level the land, make concrete cement, etc. - to contribute to the co-op goal - no Gold to hurry the task, much need to co-ordinate like co-op research, but in miniature
GGS profits as more people stick around to actually play a game, and profit is not the main concern (but you make dollars with a buy-in to this bonus round for the Co-op - i.e. the co-op pays, say (spitballing a number) one million per player (or 100,000 gold) as a buy in with prizes for accomplishments / goals met and a deco of a level of happiness set by the accomplishments achieved like the xmas ice castles and flag at the end
A co-op challenge should be something different, something that requires teamwork, and not something that requires or even allows spending, so it's not another SPENDING competition, which aren't fun
Think about making money based on quantities, varieties of activities - make bigger or more farms possible; make more varieties of plants, animals available (for example - make greenhouses a farm-land type like fields or sheds; make higher-priced exotic plants e.g. orchids; or animals e.g. chinchilla, alpaca, etc; available; these are ways to generate gold spending that add value to the experience; not subtract from it with spending competitions
This isn't the only issue with the GREED over creating "spending opportunities orientation GGS has; for example the horse racing where your horse races without notifying you of an impending race or requiring your consent as missions do, is outright theft from your players, as well as illegal (in some states) "Gambling" (not requiring skill) nor do you have a special permit like states do for lotteries, bingo parlors, etc. There is currently no way to temporarily put your farms on hiatus for extended vacations, hospital stays so while you are away your farm keeps costing you dollars and bankrupts itself; etc.
It's the fundamentals, we don't like naked greed like these non-competitive spending competitions, we want more - not less farming; we want a game that doesn't penalize us for getting sick - that isn't basically unfair to the people who play it
For the record, I don't regularly do missions as they are spending contests of little value, and this time I would venture less than 10% of my RP came from actual competitions - spending gold in WoF was much cheaper to get RP, in previous Coopcha I found the Prime spending rewards (including the 1Million RP for spending on your own farm upgrades) to be more cost/benefit value than the actual "competitions" (missions) ever were.
Clearly, that so many of us are taking time to stay in the game, to write you shows we are interested; that so many have quit shows you have a problem, and, I hope, letters like this show you the way to a better game (it becomes increasingly more expensive to recruit new players to a SPENDING game instead if a farming game - you end up losing players, (and money) that way as witness the many people 1) leaving co-ops and 2) leaving the game because they don't want SPENDING competitions but do want farming competitions and a fundamentally fairer game
The new coopcha demonstrates this fundamental flaw - you didn't expand the farming, didn't expand the teamwork, you expanded the greed; you were "schlockmeisters" not game masters. For the record, I agree with the statements above and, I hope, have demonstrated not just a profound disgust with this latest SPENDING competition but with all spending competitions, you need to become game masters
I appreciate all the support in this thread from many different people and coops (including the top coops on the server). Hopefully we can help spur a change for good. Like Rick, if changes are made, Brat Pack will reassess our position about participation. Thanks all.
"While it may not be worth it to you, many people do enjoy the tournament very much. If you are talking about a direct justification for using gold in it, there is none. The justification is in what you as the player get out of the tournament.
-Popeye "
Well, Popeye, I was one of those people who used to enjoy playing in the coopcha. I am a casual player with a job, but used to be able to place in the top 10 of my coop with some strategy and by growing my farm. The new and improved coopcha was no fun for me, I don't care to spin my way to victory, I am looking for some healthy competition where the playing field is pretty even (give or take a few), but nothing like the WOF and RP deals we saw. Anyway - hope the team will take a good look at all the feedback and improve the prizes, the rps required to finish the gold league, and the length of the event. Instead of cutting the weekly events in half (time-wise), shorten the coopcha, so teams can rally and have some fun without it dragging for a whole week.
I also agree with @CM Popeye that a victory should not be able to be bought.
Make 2 separate Challenges. One as is. One as farm against farm, player against player.
Call it the Farming Challenge were individual players play against each other as in a mission. Pitting farm against farm. With similar rankings and rewards as the old Co op Challenge. A challenge were one can not buy a win. They must earn it through farming and playing.