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New terms and conditions

Had this pop-up today


2.3
Children under 13 years of age are not permitted to register. Minors over 13 years of age may only register with the permission of their legal guardians and, in the case that the respective game or service has an age rating, only after reaching the minimum age requirement.

I dont know if this was the case before the change, but are you saying you will be banning all users who have openly admitted in posts to be younger than 13 years old?

8.1
Users agree to reimburse Goodgame Studios for all damages resulting from the culpable non-observance of the obligations of these terms and conditions. (...) Users shall assume the costs of Goodgame Studios' legal defense, including all court and legal fees. This condition does not apply if the user is not responsible for the infringement.

This sounds a little scay, are there any lawyers among you farmers who can say whether this is a usual thing..?

Comments

  • I am sure looking forward to "expert" thoughts about the TOS.  The above and other matters.
  • Interesting. I'm still trying to absorb it all. That was a lot of reading, so I'll have to read it again when I have more time than I do this morning. I think some points used verbiage to intentionally make reasonable clarity vague. I'd chalk it up to language under normal circumstances, but in this case, it is doubtful that is the case.
  • jess_d (US1)jess_d (US1) US1 Posts: 3,515
    I think the part about minors being over 13 is for certain games that have an age requirement. For example, you have to enter your age to play Café. As far as I know, Big Farm doesn't have an age requirement so I don't think that would affect the kids playing this game.
  • BriannospamGame (SKN1)BriannospamGame (SKN1) Posts: 1,803
    edited 17.12.2015
    3.2 Login data, identification, passwords
    3.2.1 Users are required to maintain strict confidentiality regarding all login data, identification, and passwords.
    3.2.2 The terms "login data", "identification", and "passwords" include all letter and/or character and/or number sequences used to authenticate the user and prevent unauthorized use by third parties. The password should not be identical to the player name, and it should consist of a combination of numbers and letters.
    3.2.3 Users are required to protect all login data, identification, and passwords from third-party access.

    All this is ok, and I do my best to protect my login data, identification, and passwords from third-party access among other things by using adblock and block for 3'die party cookies and 3'die Party suspicious data and scripts!

    3.3 Use of Goodgame Studios' websites and website content
    3.3.1 Goodgame Studios' websites and mobile games include various content that is protected by trademarks, copyrights, or other means for the benefit of Goodgame Studios or third parties. Unless explicitly permitted within these general terms and conditions, users may not edit, copy, distribute, publicly reproduce, use for advertising purposes, or use beyond the contractually agreed purposes any of Goodgame Studios' websites, mobile games, or the content or any portion thereof. Only technical copies intended for browsing purposes and permanent copies intended solely for private use shall be permitted. Copyright information and brand names may not be changed, hidden, or removed.
    3.3.2 The term "content" includes all data, images, text, graphics, music, sounds, sound sequences, videos, software programs and codes, and other information provided by Goodgame Studios. The term "content" also includes, in particular, all services available for download.
    3.3.5 Users are not entitled to publish content on Goodgame Studios' websites, online games, mobile games, or other services.


    Which actually in the strictest consistency means that my bigfarm help site (http://fjollefarm.latestdot.dk) is against the rules ... and really it's also against the rules that I use a copied image of George as avatar here on the forum
    And actually it is of course also against the rules when I make Danish translations of the English entry to the delight of the Danes who do not understand English!
    - I'm quite sure that GGS is aware that I have this Danish help page, so when GGS has not asked me to remove bigfarm-related content from the page, I suppose that GGS consider it to be sensible and beneficial to themselves to ignore my website contains elements that are in violation of copyrights.
    - Else.. if GGS not can accept my homesite contains Bigfarn stuff.. just tell me, and I'll take it away.

    4.5 It is prohibited to apply measures that hide advertisements. It is of no significance whether advertising is deliberately hidden or can not be displayed in general e.g. by so-called pop-up blockers, text-based browsers, or similar.

    It may not mean seriously?

    First you say:

    3.2.3 Users are required to protect all login data, identification, and passwords from third-party access.

    And now you say we may not protect our login data against 3'rd party as good as we can?


    Never mind... rule 4.5 is absolutly unacceptable for me !

    I am the legal owner of this computer !  - GGS can not decide on what software I use to protect myself against hacking and unwanted advertisements !

    - What wil be the next?  will GGS try to forbid me to lock my door when I leave my home and perhaps also forbid me to remove the ignition key and lock my car when I leave it?


    I'll give you GGS this offer as an alternative solution on this discrepancy between us: GGS lend me a a computer for free, to my use for only Bigfarm and nothing els, and then I'll promise you to comply rule 4.5 on that computer.

  • farmerjohn 22 (US1)farmerjohn 22 (US1) US1 Posts: 37,770
    edited 17.12.2015
    I think everyone knows that rules can always be made. It's how or if they are enforced that really defines the rule. There is a rule against having more than one account on the same server. We see how well that rule is enforced, do we not?  :)
    Post edited by farmerjohn 22 (US1) on
  • Kamilcom (GB1)Kamilcom (GB1) Posts: 1,499
    I'll give you GGS this offer as an alternative solution on this discrepancy between us: GGS lend me a a computer for free, to my use for only Bigfarm and nothing els, and then I'll promise you to comply rule 4.5 on that computer.
    I think this is a very smart sugestion, which I fully support. Of course on the condition that the computers they give us all are of superior quality and personalised to our individual health and other needs. :):):)

    Note: As a matter of fact GGS lawyers are commiting High Treason against the company as strict adherence to some of these rules means the game basically closes down and GGS is out of business.  :):)

    Looking forward to CM's comments on this topic. :)

  • NafaruNafaru Posts: 3,047

    Which actually in the strictest consistency means that my bigfarm help site (http://fjollefarm.latestdot.dk) is against the rules ... and really it's also against the rules that I use a copied image of George as avatar here on the forum
    And actually it is of course also against the rules when I make Danish translations of the English entry to the delight of the Danes who do not understand English!
    - I'm quite sure that GGS is aware that I have this Danish help page, so when GGS has not asked me to remove bigfarm-related content from the page, I suppose that GGS consider it to be sensible and beneficial to themselves to ignore my website contains elements that are in violation of copyrights.
    - Else.. if GGS not can accept my homesite contains Bigfarn stuff.. just tell me, and I'll take it away.
    This part of the Terms and Conditions did not changesince the previous version. You have nothing to worry about with your site as long as you don't claim that you're the creator of the game or any of the art assets that you are using. 

    If you would like to be completely sure, just add a message (if not there already) stating that it's a fansite, no official site created by GGS site and inform everyone about the copyright of the assets used. 

    We actually encourage fansites (there is a press kit that can be used for these purposes on our website). :) 

  • Nafaru said:
    This part of the Terms and Conditions did not changesince the previous version. You have nothing to worry about with your site as long as you don't claim that you're the creator of the game or any of the art assets that you are using. 

    If you would like to be completely sure, just add a message (if not there already) stating that it's a fansite, no official site created by GGS site and inform everyone about the copyright of the assets used. 

    We actually encourage fansites (there is a press kit that can be used for these purposes on our website). :) 

    I know that part of of terms is not changed. :)
    - That's why I guess it's ok with these help sites some of us have made.

    But: you forget to answer the most important part of my post;

    rule 4.5 is absolutly unacceptable for me !

    At least I hope you have noticed that I have delivered a protest against the new rule within the 4 weeks.
    - If this thread is not the right place to protest against that rule, please tell us where we then should post protest against that rule.
  • Kamilcom (GB1)Kamilcom (GB1) Posts: 1,499

    But: you forget to answer the most important part of my post;

    rule 4.5 is absolutly unacceptable for me !

    At least I hope you have noticed that I have delivered a protest against the new rule within the 4 weeks.
    - If this thread is not the right place to protest against that rule, please tell us where we then should post protest against that rule.
    I wish I could just press "agree" or "support this idea" button. I'd like to hear some background thinking disclosure or supportive arguments for this rule. At it's face value it sounds like absolute madness and unacceptable breach into the rights and privacy of other people. Of course it can be easily sorted out by just not playing the game. But that's where I talk about GGS going out of business if this rule is strictly adhered to by all responsible computer users. You must understand that telling people they can't protect themselves against threats which your company presents is of totalitarian ideology, and some good CM explanation is highly desirable.
  • On reflection I think actually not that GGS has thoughts or desire to discuss the change of the rules.

    a) Notice that this thread is not opened by a CM and posted in the Discussion Corner for the official announcements.

    b) Notice also the last part of the text of the information from the game:



    Let's try to figure a little bit on how much (read small) chances of getting GGS to pull the new rule 4.5 back:
    When GGS talking about how many people playing Bigfarm, they talking about many thousand ( or do they count their players in millions?) people around the world.
    Of course a lot of these players are spread on several servers, and as far I know in this forum we normaly only see players from the us server, the english server and the skn server...

    When I look at the ranking list on the us server, it tells me there just now are 60,190 players on the us server.
    The ranking list on the skn server says 10,685 players

    But how many of these 70,875 players are active players?
    How many of these 70,875 players are reading the forum
    how many of these 70,875 players do you think have read the new rules, instead just close that information window?
    If anybody ask me, I'll say: If that part of the information I have draw a red line around should looks like we have just a microscopically chance to get that rule 4.5 removed, I think GGS allready have a very high majority who accept the new rule (many thousands accepts against every one who like me say the new rule is unacceptable)

    Or all this is 1 short sentence: Accept the new rule 4.5 or leave the game !!!

    Well... This means, when this rules takes effect, the game is not longer that product to which I have buy gold for real money.
    Because of that: When the new rules takes effect, I consider myself within my rights to request GGS repays me for the purchased gold I not have used on both the skn server and the us server. - After doing that, GGS can delete both my farms.
  • adoptapet (US1)adoptapet (US1) Posts: 1,760
    edited 20.12.2015
    Well, I will just continue to play with my current protections until I can no longer, presuming they can and  would do something to stop that .  As several have posted, they can only play the game with browsers with built in protections.  I do not think GGS will want to lose many players who can only play that way.  It may be a substantial portion of their business.  Patience may be a virtue here. 

    And what about the ones playing here that signed up through Facebook, etc. who cannot get the videos.  Is not that because Facebook or the others have blocked ads? 

    @Briannospam, you would be a severe loss to the game and to all those for whom you translate.  Would the game risk losing all of them, too? 

    Edited to add:

    Since this game is played worldwide, I wonder if rule 4.5 is even applicable/enforceable in all countries??? 
  • bdreish (GB1)bdreish (GB1) GB1 Posts: 1,341
    edited 20.12.2015

    I would like to add my voice to @Briannospam and @adoptapet.  I protect myself in any way I can in respect of computer safety, and to be told that I cannot decide what sites I allow to access my computer is totally wrong.

    @adoptapet, you make a good point about the enforceability of rule 4.5 - I will have to ask my son who is an IT Consultant in Belgium to check it out for us.  And I totally agree that @Briannospam would be a great loss to all of us and hope that it never happens that he leaves us.

    Edit:  I would rather have a relatively small membership fee to be payable in order to NOT have advertisements in the game, as I have already played other games online that worked in this way.  A nominal fee is a small price to pay for computer safety.

  • I do not agree with this part of the T&C.

    4.5 It is prohibited to apply measures that hide advertisements. It is of no significance whether advertising is deliberately hidden or can not be displayed in general e.g. by so-called pop-up blockers, text-based browsers, or similar.

    As it says I have 4 weeks to object to this where can I object? As far as I can see there is no where to refuse the agreement.

    I will continue to use my computer as I always have and that includes an ad blocker. I am pretty sure our consumer law here would not allow that part of the agreement.
  • I do not agree with this part of the T&C.

    I will continue to use my computer as I always have and that includes an ad blocker. I am pretty sure our consumer law here would not allow that part of the agreement.
    I agree with you.  I miss the agree button, but this is worth emphasizing.
  • Do we post our objections here or do we have to get in touch with GGS by email?

    Whatever, I would like to post my objection to rule 4.5.

  • I found this for contact on the goodgamestudios website. Worth a contact to see if they will answer.

    http://www.goodgamestudios.com/company/contact/
  • @BriannospamGame (SKN1)  I do not think that part you have highlighted in your screenshot, means there is any chance of having that rule removed. When you register for or download anything online, you are always asked to agree or disagree with the conditions, if you disagree it stops there, no negociations. That message "appears" to just be their way of doing exactly that, by saying if you do not formally disagree, we will take that to mean that you agree.... Why they have chosen such a strange way to do that, I have no clue. There must be some reason why they don`t have agree/disagree buttons, maybe they don`t want to instantly lock people out of their farms if they disagree, I guess you will find out when they respond to your objection.

    As for the clause itself, I am no techie, but I don`t see how GGS would know or could prove, what security people have (or not) on their computers, which would mean its not enforceable, so why is it there?..... The only reason I can think is that it has something to do with their agreement with the advertisers, maybe they have a clause that says they agree to tell their customers that they are not allowed to block the ads, it could be something as simple as that.

    I agree with @farmerjohn 22 (US1) its not so much what is written, its what is enforced that matters. All TOS are full of complicated legalspeak to cover (or try to) every possible loophole that someone might find, but at the end of the day, if you are just playing the game as it is meant to be played & not hacking, cracking, abusing or exploiting anything, then you are unlikely to find yourself in court over any clause in a TOS.
  • BriannospamGame (SKN1)BriannospamGame (SKN1) Posts: 1,803
    edited 20.12.2015
    As for the clause itself, I am no techie, but I don`t see how GGS would know or could prove, what security people have (or not) on their computers, which would mean its not enforceable, so why is it there?..... The only reason I can think is that it has something to do with their agreement with the advertisers, maybe they have a clause that says they agree to tell their customers that they are not allowed to block the ads, it could be something as simple as that.

    I'm not even that safety expert, I only know a little more than the most basic things in data security.
    I know virtually nothing about what opportunities flash offers in connection with investigating what software people have installed on their computers.

    But I know that javascripts provide some options to check the users' software and settings (eg. What browser they use, IP address, etc.).
    - And that's why I'm very concerned about that already on the login screen has supersonic opportunity to look over our shoulder while we unencrypted type in and send our login data.
    Here is the proof: 



    The drop down menu upper left, in danish words tells me the login site is a http site  - not a https site !
    If you dont know the difference between http and https, just take a google search on this string:
    what's the difference between http and https

    The big dropdown in the middle of the top tells me I have blocked for a 3'rd party cookie (from supersonic).
    3.2.3 Users are required to protect all login data, identification, and passwords from third-party access.

    ok.. it seems like at this screen there have not been loaded any javascripts from supersonic or somebody else.... yet
    But how can we be sure, that not with or without GGS know it, a javascript maybe some day out in the future can be placed here, eg officially to check about we using adblocker or blocking for 3'rd party materials?

  • Moderators, please tell GGS that links in the T&C not all working.  For example, the one about the National Advertising Initiative.


  • Moderators, please tell GGS that links in the T&C not all working.  For example, the one about the National Advertising Initiative.


    @adoptapet (US1)  Thankyou, reported. :)

    It has a (  stuck in front of the http this one should work:
    http://www.networkadvertising.org/choices/
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557

    I would like to add my voice to @Briannospam and @adoptapet.  I protect myself in any way I can in respect of computer safety, and to be told that I cannot decide what sites I allow to access my computer is totally wrong.

    @adoptapet, you make a good point about the enforceability of rule 4.5 - I will have to ask my son who is an IT Consultant in Belgium to check it out for us.  And I totally agree that @Briannospam would be a great loss to all of us and hope that it never happens that he leaves us.

    Edit:  I would rather have a relatively small membership fee to be payable in order to NOT have advertisements in the game, as I have already played other games online that worked in this way.  A nominal fee is a small price to pay for computer safety.

    Completely agree with every single word! :+1: 
  • Just another thought.  How many new players ever read the terms and conditions, also called the Terms of Service and Privacy??

    IF GGS blocks or refuses to let players who have protections built into browsers, and/or such things as ad-block, I think they will lose lots and lots of potential new players.  I do know a couple people who refuse to play it just because they use Flash. 

    Definitely not a good business plan.
  • for those who haven't read it, the NEW user agreement says:

    4.5 It is prohibited to apply measures that hide advertisements. It is of no significance whether advertising is deliberately hidden or can not be displayed in general e.g. by so-called pop-up blockers, text-based browsers, or similar.

    This isn't legal. It's like a clinic saying that patients can not use flu medicines to avoid a trip to a doctor. These programs are attached to the browser, not the web page; and no, you do not have control over the browser as it is also used on other pages; many which may require such protection

    This is Illegal, and your using this in the new agreement just shows the tremendous disdain that you hold your customers in; the arrogance, the disrespect.

    You seem not to want customers with this kind of activity; all that's needed is one customer who is a lawyer to open this can of worms
  • jess_d (US1)jess_d (US1) US1 Posts: 3,515
    Just another thought.  How many new players ever read the terms and conditions, also called the Terms of Service and Privacy??

    When I first started playing this game, I didn't know about the TOS, but apparently we agree to everything by creating an account. When I go to a website, I have to click a box to agree to the TOS, whether I read it or not. I think GGS should do something similar. Without notice of the TOS, how are we to know what to expect?
  • I've already stopped playing - what's the point in continuing.

    Thought I'd share a last thought with you, I have played german owned games before, german law is very peculiar when it comes to online games. Basically If you have bought, or earned through watching adverts (which earns money for the company), something in a game, that legally belongs to you, and the game company cannot delete your account as they have an obligation to provide you with access to the purchased items. It is technically theft if they delete your account.

    Rule 4.5 canot be applied if you watch a single advert.......

    The other german game company provided a completely seperate system to earn game items, therefore making it a players choice if they wanted to access that system. They also had thousands upon thousands of inactive accounts which couldn't be removed, and although they finally merged servers to fix that problem you can still today have your inactive account reactivated if you earned in game items from ads.

    Rule 4.5: Anonymous is legion and never forgives.


  • CM NafaruCM Nafaru Posts: 1,325

    Do we post our objections here or do we have to get in touch with GGS by email?

    Whatever, I would like to post my objection to rule 4.5.

    You can contact us through support, they will guide you through the process.

    As for 'rule 4.5' - this rule has been in place for as long as the game is existing. The wording may have changed a little, but it has always been there, saying the exact same thing with exactly the same consequences. Apparently no one noticed it before. 


This discussion has been closed.