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Maximum Performance at the Candy Farm

harduphardup Posts: 125
GGS has improved the productivity parameters of the Sugar Mill in the middle of the first season. It makes calculations and conclusions below in this thread obsolete. Please disregard.
However, the suggested method of analysis may be applied in some similar circumstances.
Take care and have fun.
hardup 4-Jul-2015
Well, farmers, as you have probably noticed, the Sugar Mill is the bottleneck building in the temporary Candy Farm.

The fact was brought to attention and supported by calculations at the threads

Criticism-Candy-farm-payout-(i-did-the-math) by PSICOLIX12

Criticism-UNREAL-Sugar-mill-production-time-from-the-candy-farm-is-getting-all-the-players-angry by clinn
and others.

I agree with Yakoska and my bet is that smth went wrong at GGS under the tough deadline - the Pasture Grass processing belongs to the Crushing Mill, not the Sugar Mill.
Hopefully this would be rectified by the Candy Farm take-2. Now we have to deal with this productivity mismatch.

The assumptions:
1. I would assume you are at the high level in the game and do not have problems funds your operations on the Candy Farm.
2. Therefore I will look only into the final stage of the Candy Farm when you can have any of your building upgraded max to level-4.
3. The performance target would be to reach the level-15 at the Candy Palace the fastest way,
so you need to get maximum candy production from your Candy Factory for donation.

As you may see, the Sugar Mill is involved (directly or indirectly) in production of 5 (of 6) sweets at the Candy Factory:
- it produces sugar and syrup,
and
- it is used to make the alpaca feed (that is required to produce milk and cream).

So, I would calculate how much time of the Sugar Mill is required to supply ingredients for 1 unit of each six sweets production at the Sweet Factory.

Read on ...
Post edited by hardup on
«1

Comments

  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    Products at the Candy Factory


    Product
    Grapes
    Cherries
    Sugar
    Syrup
    Almonds
    Chocolat Powder
    Milk
    Cream


    6 Fruity Delights
    6
    6








    5 Marzipans


    15

    10





    4 Chocolates


    20


    28
    8



    5 Gingerbread Hearts


    60
    45
    20





    4 Fruit Puddings
    6
    36




    72
    40


    12 Sugar Ornaments


    144
    60

    60

    12


    The upgrade of the Factory does not change the required ingredient amounts, just speeds up the production.

    The Factory-4 is very fast, any sweet unit is produces in a couple of minutes.
    We will see that the Sugar Mill is slowing the Factory.
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    Sugar Mill-4 production


    Product
    minutes
    quantity
    minutes required to produce 1 of product


    Sugar
    20
    58
    0.3448


    Syrop
    90
    66
    1.3636


    Alpaca feed
    90
    10
    9


    Formula: col4 = minutes / quantity
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    Alpaca Pen-4 production

    Alpaca Pens run concurrently with the Sugar Mill.
    Sugar Mill indirectly participates in production of Milk and Cream - it is used to produce some Alpaca feed.



    Product
    minutes
    feed
    quantity
    Alpaca feed required to produce 1 of product


    Milk
    420
    10
    288
    0.03472


    Cream
    420
    10
    176
    0.05682



    No matter how many Alpaca pen you have, the amount of feed required to produce 1 milk (or 1 cream) is the same.
    Formula: col5 = feed / quantity


    Indirect use os Sugar Mill for milk & cream



    Product
    Alpaca feed required to produce 1 of product
    Sugar Mill time to produce 1 of alpaca feed
    Sugar mill time to produce 1 of product


    Milk
    0.03472
    9
    0.3125


    Cream
    0.05682
    9
    0.5114


    Formula: col4 = col2 * col3
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    Time of the Sugar Mill
    to produce ingredients for the Candy Factory



    Ingredients
    Gra pes
    Cher ries
    Sugar
    Syrup
    Alm onds
    Choc. Powder
    Milk
    Cream


    Time of Sugar Mill to produce 1 unit of ingredients
    0
    0
    0.3448
    1.3636
    0
    0
    0.3125
    0.5114


    6 Fruity Delights
    0
    0








    5 Marzipans


    5.17

    0





    4 Chocolates


    6.90


    0
    2.50



    5 Gingerbread Hearts


    20.69
    61.36
    0





    4 Fruit Puddings
    0
    0




    22.50
    20.45


    12 Sugar Ornaments


    49.66
    81.82

    0

    6.14


    Formula:
    take ingredients quantities from the first table above and multiply them by the corresponding coefficients in the second line of this table

    Zero in a cell means that the Sugar Mill is not used to produce these ingredients
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    Time of the Sugar Mill
    to produce each sweet at Candy Factory



    Product
    Sale price (vouchers) per unit
    Full sale price per one Factory run
    Full Sugar Mill time required to produce all ingredients for this product
    Vouchers earned per 1 minute of Sugar Mill run
    Vouchers earned per 1 hour of Sugar Mill run


    6 Fruity Delights
    34
    170
    0
    -
    -


    5 Marzipans
    217
    1,085
    5.17
    209.86
    12,586


    4 Chocolates
    663
    2,652
    9.40
    282.13
    16,934


    5 Gingerbread Hearts
    760
    3,800
    82.05
    46.31
    2,779


    4 Fruit Puddings
    1,556
    6,224
    22.50
    276.62
    16,597


    12 Sugar Ornaments
    709
    8,508
    137.61
    61.83
    3,710


    Formula:
    col3 = col1 * col2

    col4 is the total time from the corresponding line in the previous table:
    col4 = Sugar + Syrup + max(Milk,Cream)

    col5 = col3 / col4

    col6 = col5 * 60

    P.S.
    I will appreciate if you check my reasoning and calculations above.
    Thanks
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 17.06.2015
    What is the most effective use of the Sugar Mill ?(

    From the table above we may conclude that if you use the Sugar Mill to provide ingredients for
    Chocolate or Fruit Pudding
    - you get the best return in term of vouchers received on product sale.
    Marzipan is good enough.

    Sugar Ornaments and Gingerbread Hearts are the waste of Sugar Mill capacity.

    When not used (waiting for the Sugar Mill to complete) - the Candy Factory should be used to produce Fruity Delights.

    Assumptions:
    - your fields and orchards are producing a plenty of resources
    - you Sugar Mill and Alpaca Pens are upgraded to level-4

    Take care and have fun :S
  • Lylu (INT1)Lylu (INT1) INT1 Posts: 448
    edited 17.06.2015
    Thank you so much for this Hardup. This is a very thorough and well presented analysis.

    One more chart (or 2 columns on the last chart) might prove insightful. "Time of Sugar Mill per Progress Point" for each type of candy, or stated in the format of the last chart "Progress Points per Minute/Hour of Sugar Mill. If not too much extra work for you, would you mind adding that statistic as well.
  • Pameow (AU1)Pameow (AU1) AU1 Posts: 266
    edited 17.06.2015
    Thanks for making this information available.

    I have 8 empty plots because I bought them without realising that they would stay empty for so long. So its really good to have some guide as to what buildings to place in them: next week and the week after that.
  • FarmerRiet.tack (NL1)FarmerRiet.tack (NL1) NL1 Posts: 13
    edited 17.06.2015
    Thanks for all the information
    I had already my doubts about producing in this farm.
    If producing remains as it is, won't play it in the future.
    Sorry
  • 1sttimer1sttimer Posts: 34
    edited 17.06.2015
    Thank you Hardup. I came to the same conclusion last night, alho I was using level 3 data (the best I can afford). Besides the payout ratios being low & the feed assignment, I think a big problem is the sugar mill upgrades aren't right

    when you compare all the processing times at each level, the Sugar Mill doesn't improve much pass level 2.

    sugar: 1:30 > 0:45 > 0:30 > 0:20
    syrup: 5:00 > 2:30 > 2:00 > 1:30
    feed: 3:00 > 1:50 > 1:40 > 1:30

    In the Factory, the Fruity Delights go from 25 min at lvl 1 to 30 SECONDS at lvl 4. Fruit Pudding from 3.5hrs to 3 min. Cocoa Powder goes from 5.3 hrs to 3 min. even the composter goes from 4hr to 20 min

    if the sugar mill processing times were improved at a similar rate as the other production bldgs., that would help a lot (as well as make sense). I would think the balancer's job is to make the processing cycle "balanced" on the farms, not jam one of the wheels

    even if they wanted to limit the Alpaca feed, there's no reason for the sugar & syrup to be so out of whack. Besides, the feed is already limited by the maximum allowed in a run. e.g. at lvl 2 I can only make 20 feed at a time, even tho' I have lots of pasture grass. for me, it's almost not worth upgrading the sugar mill to level 3 except that I want to make more than 20 feed at a time.

    It'd be nice if GGS would consider adjusting the processing times now rather than waiting for the next CF. It would make a huge difference to players like me. I can't afford gold & don't expect to make 90kk. but I had hoped for the 40kk + GMLs since I was able to make 50kk on the VF. Doesn't seem possible atm
  • Yakoska (US1)Yakoska (US1) Posts: 1,631
    edited 17.06.2015
    Good stuff Hardup, but one value is incorrect, your full sale price for one candy run does not take into account vouchers for running the item. You get an additional 13 for Fruity D, 71 for Marzipan, 172 for chocolate, 247 for hearts, 400 for puddings, 550 for ornaments.

    This doesn't change the over all picture, but should be included for the sake of accuracy.

    -Y

    BTW> Using the following restrictions: 1) 8 hours sleep roughly. 2) Grapes take 1 hour to complete (basically just making it so that I don't have to be at the keyboard EVERY 10 minutes, though obviously sometimes you will.
    I came up with: 261 Marzipan cycles a day. 20 Pudding Cycles a day. 220 Fruity D's a day. This makes minimum (more if you do more) 650,931 vouchers a day (Including vouchers for harvesting, and running Mills, but not building the buildings or clearing land. Just things that repeat daily) at a fairly relaxed pace. It also leaves 4 unused squares, so there is room for improvement in the puddings for the industrious. Sugar mill is maxed. The simplest thing to add to this is to add houses and space to build and demo a Cocoa field to lvl 4. I've heard (other post) it takes 24 hours and nets about 400k vouchers. So if that's true, there's 1.05 million vouchers daily (at a relaxed pace) with room to spare. Maybe someone else can beat this using the same restrictions?

    Oh, I didn't factor in Humus, though that is one of the Boons of the Candy Farm.
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 18.06.2015
    Yakoska wrote: »
    Good stuff Hardup, but one value is incorrect, your full sale price for one candy run does not take into account vouchers for running the item. You get an additional 13 for Fruity D, 71 for Marzipan, 172 for chocolate, 247 for hearts, 400 for puddings, 550 for ornaments.

    This doesn't change the over all picture, but should be included for the sake of accuracy.

    Thanks for pointing this out - here the updated table, I have added a column

    Vouchers earned at Candy Factory per Time of the Sugar Mill


    Product
    Sale price (vouchers) per unit
    Additional vouchers for running the Factory
    Total vouchers per one Factory run
    Full Sugar Mill time required to produce all ingredients for this product
    Vouchers earned per 1 minute of Sugar Mill run
    Vouchers earned per 1 hour of Sugar Mill run


    6 Fruity Delights
    34
    +13
    217
    0
    -
    -


    5 Marzipans
    217
    +71
    1,156
    5.17
    223.49
    13,410


    4 Chocolates
    663
    +172
    2,824
    9.40
    300.54
    18,032


    5 Gingerbread Hearts
    760
    +247
    4,047
    82.05
    49.32
    2,959


    4 Fruit Puddings
    1,556
    +400
    6,624
    22.50
    294.40
    17,664


    12 Sugar Ornaments
    709
    +550
    9,058
    137.61
    65.82
    3,949


    Formula:
    col4 = col1 * col2 + col3

    col5 is the total time from the corresponding line in the previous table:
    col5 = Sugar + Syrup + max(Milk,Cream)

    col6 = col4 / col5

    col7 = col6 * 60

    This makes Chocolates the most effective item at the Candy Factory
  • PSICOLIX (BR1)PSICOLIX (BR1) Posts: 250
    edited 18.06.2015
    i would love to hear from any representant of GGS how much vouchers per day a fully ready farm is capable of doing... isle was more than 3 mill...
  • PCA (GB1)PCA (GB1) GB1 Posts: 839
    edited 18.06.2015

    Lots of calculations, thank you Hardup !

    Just a couple of small details to think along with you: the candy factory produces batches of 6 and not 5 fruity delights

    Given that the sugar mill is the limiting factor, the best products then are the fruity delight and the fruit pudding, which require neither sugar nor syrup; and given that you assign some sugar mill time also to milk (alpaca feed) then maybe the fruity delight is the winner

    Without taking into account the sugar mill we can see that all the sweets produced by the candy factory improve the income (in vouchers) over the sale of the single ingredients with a final product / ingredients ratio of approx 3 :1 for all the sweets. This suggests that it is better to use the candy factory to produce all the sweets taking into account which ingredients are in storage

    This is the strategy I am following at the moment, but I will not play the candy farm next time it comes around. I seriously doubt that the low pay-out of the candy farm is a mistake, and I am convinced nothing (or too little too late) will be done to remedy this problem.




  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 19.06.2015
    PCA wrote: »

    ... the candy factory produces batches of 6 and not 5 fruity delights

    Absolutely, thanks, updating the table.
    PCA wrote: »

    ... the candy factory improve the income (in vouchers) over the sale of the single ingredients with a final product / ingredients ratio of approx 3 :1 for all the sweets. This suggests that it is better to use the candy factory to produce all the sweets taking into account which ingredients are in storage

    Correct. However, the Factory-4 is very fast and I believe you will run out of prepared SugarMill-related ingredients very soon. Then the factory has nothing to do but Fruity Delights and waiting for the Sugar Mill.
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 19.06.2015
    Progress Points
    Lylu3 wrote: »
    Thank you so much for this Hardup. This is a very thorough and well presented analysis.
    One more chart (or 2 columns on the last chart) might prove insightful. "Time of Sugar Mill per Progress Point" for each type of candy, or stated in the format of the last chart "Progress Points per Minute/Hour of Sugar Mill. If not too much extra work for you, would you mind adding that statistic as well.

    Progress Point earned for the time of Sugar Mill



    Product of Factory
    Progress Points for 1 item
    Total PPs per one Factory run
    Full Sugar Mill time required to produce all ingredients for this product
    PPs earned per 1 minute of Sugar Mill run
    PPs earned per 1 hour of Sugar Mill run


    6 Fruity Delights
    1
    6
    0
    -
    -


    5 Marzipans
    6
    30
    5.17
    5.8
    348


    4 Chocolates
    19
    76
    9.40
    8.09
    485


    5 Gingerbread Hearts


    82.05




    4 Fruit Puddings
    45
    180
    22.50
    8.00
    480


    12 Sugar Ornaments
    20
    240
    137.61
    1.74
    105


    Formula:
    col3 = col1 * col2

    col4 is the total time from the corresponding line in the previous table:
    col4 = Sugar + Syrup + max(Milk,Cream)

    col5 = col3 / col4

    col6 = col5 * 60

    P.S.
    I will appreciate if you check my reasoning and calculations above.
    Thanks
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 19.06.2015
    How many Progress Points you can get from the Sugar Mill ?

    Well, you get PPs by making donations at the Candy Palace.
    You need any of six sweets produced in the Factory to make donations.
    You need ingredients from the Sugar Mill to make five of six sweets at the Factory.
    The table above shows that you can earn maximum 485 PPs per hour of Sugar Mill working on ingredients for the Factory.

    So,
    30 days x 24 hours x 485 PPs = 349,200 PPs for the Candy Farm season.
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 19.06.2015
    How many additional PPs you can get from the Candy Factory ?

    So, the Sugar Mill is working hard to prepare ingredients for the Factory.

    It takes Sugar Mill 9.4 minutes to prepare ingredients for Chocolates that can be produced at the Factory-4 in 2 minutes.
    7.4 minutes are available at the Factory to produce Fruity Delights.
    = 7.4 / 0.5 = 14.8 batches *6PP = 88.8 PPs

    OR

    It takes Sugar Mill 22.5 minutes to prepare ingredients for Fruit Pudding that can be produced at the Factory-4 in 3 minutes.
    19.5 minutes are available at the Factory to produce Fruity Delights.
    = 19.5 / 0.5 = 39 batches *6PP = 234 PPs

    Therefore, the Factory may produce additional PPs while it is waiting for the Sugar Mill
    + 88.8 PPs on 9.4 minutes cycle = 9.44 PP/minute --> 56.81 PPs per hour
    OR
    + 234.0 PPs on 22.5 minutes cycle = 10.4 PP/minute --> 624 PPs per hour

    So,
    30 days x 24 hours x 624 PPs = 449,280 PPs for the Candy Farm season.
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 19.06.2015
    Can you upgrade the Candy Palace to level-15 without gold?

    Assuming you run everything at level-4 and ignoring overhead time for starting every process and sleeping
    you can make around 790,000 PPs (349,200 + 449,280 = 798,480) for a Candy Farm Season.
    It is barely enough to upgrade the Candy Palace to the top level-15 (750,000 PPs required).

    Have fun ;(

    However, when you reach level-10 of the Palace and get your Deco-2
    you may consider to stop your donations for the Palace and sell your sweets directly at the market --> saving around 3% of vouchers for your horses !
    8)
  • Flittermouse (US1)Flittermouse (US1) Posts: 436
    edited 19.06.2015
    = 19.5 / 0.5 = 39 batches *1PP = 39 PPs

    I'm confused here. Don't Fruity Delights have batches of 6? ?(
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 20.06.2015
    Cowfarm2 wrote: »
    I'm confused here. Don't Fruity Delights have batches of 6? ?(

    Thank you Cowfarm2 for pointing this mistake.
    one batch of Fruity Delight produces 6 fruity delights 1 PP each = total 6 PPs.

    = 19.5 / 0.5 = 39 batches *6PP = 234 PPs
    Now updating the numbers in previous posts.

    So, I have mistakenly decreased six times the Fruity Delights potential for PPs.
    Sorry :love:

    Now when numbers are corrected we have another conclusion:
    It is probably doable to make Palace-15 without gold
    However it is very tough !
    You should stick to Fruit Puddings as they leave more spare time at the Factory for production of Fruity Delights.

    P.S.
    Please double check my numbers and reasoning.
    Thank you
  • Natashoek (RU1)Natashoek (RU1) Posts: 309
    edited 21.06.2015
    Hardup, yes, it's possible, but... Don't forget about the time to build to 4th level. My assumption is that we need 5 days to build. So, I have 25 days to earn. Is good assumption, more real? I don't know.
  • KikitianKikitian Posts: 3
    edited 21.06.2015
    O my gosh Yakky, you spend to much time figuring this stuff out! ;) But, I think it is very helpful, as is the stuff hardup has posted, so thank you!! And thanks for being a great co-op leader!<3
  • cityfarmari (SKN1)cityfarmari (SKN1) SKN1 Posts: 40
    edited 22.06.2015
    Thanks! I really apprerciate to get this kind of information.
    I am really hoping that we get some changes to to next version of candyfarm!
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 24.06.2015
    Well, we now have the
    New Sugar Mill
    that is x20 times faster on sugar, x30 faster on syrup, x3 faster on alpaca feed.
    Let's re-do the math
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 24.06.2015
    New Sugar Mill-4 production


    Product
    minutes
    quantity
    minutes required to produce 1 of product


    Sugar
    1
    58
    0.017


    Syrop
    3
    66
    0.045


    Alpaca feed
    30
    10
    3


    Formula: col4 = minutes / quantity

    Indirect use of Sugar Mill for producing milk & cream at Alpaca Pen



    Product
    Alpaca feed required to produce 1 of product
    Sugar Mill time to produce 1 of alpaca feed
    Sugar mill time to produce 1 of product


    Milk
    0.03472
    3
    0.1042


    Cream
    0.05682
    3
    0.1705


    Formula: col4 = col2 * col3
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 24.06.2015
    Time of the New Sugar Mill
    to produce ingredients for the Candy Factory



    Ingredients
    Gra pes
    Cher ries
    Sugar
    Syrup
    Alm onds
    Choc. Powder
    Milk
    Cream


    Time of Sugar Mill to produce 1 unit of ingredients
    0
    0
    0.017
    0.045
    0
    0
    0.1042
    0.1705


    6 Fruity Delights
    0
    0








    5 Marzipans


    0.26

    0





    4 Chocolates


    0.34


    0
    0.83



    5 Gingerbread Hearts


    1.03
    2.05
    0





    4 Fruit Puddings
    0
    0




    7.50
    6.82


    12 Sugar Ornaments


    2.48
    2.73

    0

    2.05


    Formula:
    take ingredients quantities from the very first table and multiply them by the corresponding coefficients in the second line of this table

    Zero in a cell means that the Sugar Mill is not used to produce these ingredients
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 24.06.2015
    Vouchers earned at Candy Factory per Time of the New Sugar Mill


    Product
    Sale price (vouchers) per unit
    Additional vouchers for running the Factory
    Total vouchers per one Factory run
    Full Sugar Mill time required to produce all ingredients for this product
    Vouchers earned per 1 minute of Sugar Mill run
    Vouchers earned per 1 hour of Sugar Mill run


    6 Fruity Delights
    34
    +13
    217
    0
    -
    -


    5 Marzipans
    217
    +71
    1,156
    0.26
    4469.9
    268,192


    4 Chocolates
    663
    +172
    2,824
    1.18
    2397.0
    143,817


    5 Gingerbread Hearts
    760
    +247
    4,047
    3.08
    1314.0
    78,839


    4 Fruit Puddings
    1,556
    +400
    6,624
    7.50
    883.2
    52,992


    12 Sugar Ornaments
    709
    +550
    9,058
    7.26
    1248.4
    74,906


    Formula:
    col4 = col1 * col2 + col3

    col5 is the total time from the corresponding line in the previous table:
    col5 = Sugar + Syrup + max(Milk,Cream)

    col6 = col4 / col5

    col7 = col6 * 60

    This NOW! makes Marzipans best, and Chocolates second most effective item at the Candy Factory with New Sugar Mill.

    Take care ;(
  • harduphardup Posts: 125
    edited 24.06.2015
    Progress Points earned for the time of New Sugar Mill



    Product of Factory
    Progress Points for 1 item
    Total PPs per one Factory run
    Full Sugar Mill time required to produce all ingredients for this product
    PPs earned per 1 minute of Sugar Mill run
    PPs earned per 1 hour of Sugar Mill run


    6 Fruity Delights
    1
    6
    0
    -
    -


    5 Marzipans
    6
    30
    0.26
    116
    6,960


    4 Chocolates
    19
    76
    1.18
    64.5
    3,870


    5 Gingerbread Hearts
    22
    110
    3.08
    35.7
    2,142


    4 Fruit Puddings
    45
    180
    7.50
    24
    1,440


    12 Sugar Ornaments
    20
    240
    7.26
    33
    1,984


    Formula:
    col3 = col1 * col2

    col4 is the total time from the corresponding line in the previous table:
    col4 = Sugar + Syrup + max(Milk,Cream)

    col5 = col3 / col4

    col6 = col5 * 60

    P.S.
    I will appreciate if you check my reasoning and calculations above.
    Thanks
  • Yakoska (US1)Yakoska (US1) Posts: 1,631
    edited 24.06.2015
    Thanks for that Hardup. Great numbers to start with. Of course if you ran Marzipan 24 hours a day, you'd a) have sugar left over (Even if you only ran the sugar mill 16 hours a day) and b) lose sleep, because Marzipan's maximum starts doesn't leave much time for snoozing. So it might not be the most effective item, say over a 15-16 hour play period? But at least that's where different play styles come into existence, and people can figure out what's the most effective ratio of products for their play style, instead of being forced into very narrow windows by the sugar mill.

    -Y

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