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Coops and game changes

ArtmakerArtmaker Posts: 415
Not sure where to post this, admins can move it to where ever.


Here goes.
I run THREE coops now. One on this server, CraftyCritters
Kracken Coop on the international server, and
Chicken Butts on the US server.
(All three are in need of new members.)

This one I started but was already a member in the other two.

One of those I was asked if I could take over as leader. The former leader was unhappy with all the game changes, and the next one in line didn't want to do it either. So fine. Why not.

The Chicken Butts coop our leader said she was taking a vacation then never came back.
it took a LONG time but the system finally promoted ME. And by that time the coop was a mess. Half a dozen players were no shows and the only person who could boot was also a no show.


Actually since all the changes in the game all three coops lost a LOT of good, long time players.
And this is why I'm posting in suggestions.

Very slowly I have been booting MIAs and replacing. There are two problems with this.

1. VERY ANNOYING.... I think replacements are only filling a task to join a coop. I let them in and they never show up. I really wish the game would somehow punish a player who gets booted for not showing up for over a week. Take back the perk the task gave, and make it impossible to apply again for a period of time. This would only happen if the person got kicked for lack of participation.
Or.... perhaps the task to join a coop would not be filled until AFTER they actually participated in a number of coop projects. Not just apply, get in, get some perk then decide this game isn't for them, meanwhile the coop leader (me) has to wait a week before deciding that person was a mistake. It wastes my time and everyone in the team.

Also... it would be nice if when someone is booted, the leader could click a check box with the reason. Some people may just choose to leave and that would not incur any penalty.
something... But if booted for never showing up, they are prevented from joining another coop for a set period of time. Why gain all the perks, researched things the coop has done when they have not contributed one bit?


2. The other big problem with rebuilding a once very strong and active coop, are the projects.
They are all so hard now, impossible to do. When you replace level 40+ farms with level 7s, everything on young farms is so small they really can't do much. This gets frustrating to everyone.




Can someone on the design end please consider this as something that needs adjusting?????

How about project difficulty being based on over all average of farm level and not how many the coop has already completed? This way if a bunch of high level players leave and are replaced with low levels, the whole team can still do something.

And fix the whole application booting process as described above. That's a major headache. Probably why the other leaders gave up.
Post edited by Artmaker on

Comments

  • rhinanarhinana Posts: 561
    edited 13.09.2014
    I would like to see continuing co-op tasks after the "Join a co-op" and "Donate collectibles" (etc.) that would promote active participation in the co-op. For example, a task where you have to participate in x number of researches or projects. Or maybe a harder task of achieving the golden fork/shovel for best contribution. Anything that would motivate players to be a contributing member of the co-op and not just sit there doing nothing.

    I also think it would be great to be able to see a player's co-op history. Is this their first co-op? Have they been removed from other co-ops and why (I like your idea of marking why you are removing someone)? Etc. Etc.
  • ArtmakerArtmaker Posts: 415
    edited 15.09.2014
    Both great ideas!!!!

    Yes to both. Hope admins consider this.
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 15.09.2014
    rhinana wrote: »
    I would like to see continuing co-op tasks after the "Join a co-op" and "Donate collectibles" (etc.) that would promote active participation in the co-op. For example, a task where you have to participate in x number of researches or projects. Or maybe a harder task of achieving the golden fork/shovel for best contribution. Anything that would motivate players to be a contributing member of the co-op and not just sit there doing nothing.

    I also think it would be great to be able to see a player's co-op history. Is this their first co-op? Have they been removed from other co-ops and why (I like your idea of marking why you are removing someone)? Etc. Etc.

    I second these ideas full heartedly!!:thumbup:
  • Big Beck (US1)Big Beck (US1) US1 Posts: 514
    edited 15.09.2014
    I joined a coop because it was a task. I had virtually no idea of what I was joining. I like the idea of a group of people working together toward a goal but I don't think I spend nearly as much time playing the game as some do. So sometimes my contribution is not as much as someone else's. At first the amount of money you needed to contribute to a coop seemed undo-able, but now that my farms are earning more, and I could contribute, I'm not really sure if the payoff is worth it. It all begins to feel like bookkeeping instead of game playing. If I give money to the coop to get a percentage increase in the price of hogs, how quickly can I earn it back on the sale of hogs at the increased rate? But most of the time it's a mute point, because you need nine contributors and there only five in you coop.
  • jean.zennerjean.zenner Posts: 4
    edited 15.09.2014
    Yes! I totally agree with all suggestions from Artmaker! There should be a way to mark why a person was dropped, as I have had similar frustrations with people joining (we even email they have to respond to asking if they'll be a daily player or not before accepting them) but we still have an average of 4 out of 5 as MIAs. Making contributions to the coop as an event would be a way to have them as active contributing players for a few weeks and they get a better since of what coops are about.

    Please consider these improvements for leaders of coops!
  • Elloran (US1)Elloran (US1) Posts: 18
    edited 15.09.2014
    I know it's been said before, but raising the level the 'Join a Coop' task is given would go a long way to alleviate the frustration of both new farmers and coop leaders.
  • FarmerJojoBell3FarmerJojoBell3 Posts: 48
    edited 15.09.2014
    Agree to all these suggestions!! I have 3 co-ops myself. It is a pain waiting for people who won't show up after they join. I started waiting 3 days, then out they go when they are that low of a level. If they were interested in the game, they would have logged back in by then.

    Some are removed for lack of communication, won't make a reply, won't donate, won't sign up for research. Co-ops need participation. I think it would be great for a task like "reach 4 shovels" in project activity, or donate 500 farm dollars to co-op. Even newbies can afford 500 dollars!

    Join a co-op task should be level 10 + at least.
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 15.09.2014
    Elloran wrote: »
    I know it's been said before, but raising the level the 'Join a Coop' task is given would go a long way to alleviate the frustration of both new farmers and coop leaders.

    With all due respect, I never understood why players think they have to finish their tasks immediately ....?? Why not let them hanging there, untill you are up to it or ready for it? I did not take a second farm before lvl 30 and I only joined a coop at level 32.
    All this game is asking from you is that you think for yourself, make plans, plan your strategy - not just follow up tasks blindly!:huh:
    Even now I still have some tasks dangling from the leftside of my screen, for over 8 months now... and do not care. Making my 3 permanent farms financially and economically stronger seemed much more important somehow.

    Happy farming! ;)
  • feedthepig (US1)feedthepig (US1) Posts: 30
    edited 15.09.2014
    The player history idea is pretty flawed to say the least. Where I would start is by not allowing any player to join a co-op until they at least reach level 20 or 25 (which is pretty easy). This gives the player time to decide if they enjoy the game and want to go to another level. As it currently stands players are encouraged to join co-ops quickly before most are sure they want to really play and commit the time it takes to play. Many teams already employ the MUST BE A CERTAIN LEVEL before joining requirement and the game should just do that as a whole. While most of us fully understand why teams place that requirement to a new player that requirement reads unfriendly if not uppity and no team wants to appear that way (I hope). Let the new players get a better understanding of what is going on, the game should do a better of explaining how co-ops REALLY work and let the players decide if this game is for them. The second part of player history could prove to be HIGHLY UNFAIR AND DECDIDEDLY ONE-SIDED. None of us know for sure when a player asks to join what we are really getting unless we know that player from before they asked to join. Not every player is a fit for every co-op. I know several players who have been on several teams, some switch back and forth. If a player is a team player it will show and if they are not it will show also. It's really as much about a player finding a team that fits their style and personality as it is a team finding a player who fits their style, personality and overall team make-up. If a player doesn't fit, give them the boot. We've had players we've suggested teams to because of the style of play of that team. As long as teams have the right to send a player off to be another teams problem then what exactly is the problem? NONE. But none of us has the right to harm another player's reputation or the right to take away their right to find a team they will be happier with. Unless the player history has both sides of the story included this will prove to be a harmful thing and I personally have no doubt there are players who would intentionally give another player a bad rap just to spite that player. I say let the buyer beware, take a chance on a player as we always have and get rid of them if it doesn't work out. But let's not set up s system where someone could get hurt through no fault of their own and I would like to think many of us would not be proud of if it did happen.
  • Elloran (US1)Elloran (US1) Posts: 18
    edited 15.09.2014
    Jiesta wrote: »
    With all due respect, I never understood why players think they have to finish their tasks immediately ....?? Why not let them hanging there, untill you are up to it or ready for it? I did not take a second farm gefore lvl 30 and I only joined a coop at level 32.
    All this game is asking from you is that you think for yourself, make plans, plan your strategy - not just follow up tasks blindly!:huh:
    Even now I still have some tasks dangling from the leftside of my screen, for over 8 months now... and do not care. Making my 3 permanent farms financially and economically stronger seemed much more important somehow.

    Happy farming! ;)

    I think the problem is they don't know they are not ready for the responsibilities of a coop. How could they? They are level 6 and have been playing for only a short time. This IS a game of planning and patience, but there is no way to know that after only an hour or two of playing time. But if a farmer had to wait a few more levels to join a coop, I think they would have a much better grasp of the game.

    Happy Farming to you too :-)
  • ArtmakerArtmaker Posts: 415
    edited 16.09.2014
    Big Beck wrote: »
    I joined a coop because it was a task. I had virtually no idea of what I was joining. I like the idea of a group of people working together toward a goal but I don't think I spend nearly as much time playing the game as some do. So sometimes my contribution is not as much as someone else's. At first the amount of money you needed to contribute to a coop seemed undo-able, but now that my farms are earning more, and I could contribute, I'm not really sure if the payoff is worth it. It all begins to feel like bookkeeping instead of game playing. If I give money to the coop to get a percentage increase in the price of hogs, how quickly can I earn it back on the sale of hogs at the increased rate? But most of the time it's a mute point, because you need nine contributors and there only five in you coop.


    There needs to be a change in why and how people apply. More info is a must. Not just click a button and apply to some random coop.
    I think to fill that task the person has to first look for a coop, then send a personal note. No more automated things. And I LOVE the idea that once in a coop you have to participate in a certain amount of stuff before you get rewarded.


    To answer this person more directly, coops are great. Research (which does cost game money) increases how much money everyone makes. Research flowers for example, and when you sell flowers you get more money.
    This lasts for that coop forever. So if you join a coop that has been around and already done most of the research it can really help.

    Some coops are more active than others. If you are on all the time and like to be active, find one that is.
    Still others are much more laid back. So again you need to look around before joining. Even if you don't play every day, but might be willing to pop in more often when a coop project is going that would be good.
    All depends on the coop.



    Lastly the idea of checking someones history, this is not a complicated thing. No different than feedback on any selling venue. It would not give any more info other than how many coops one might have been in, and WHY they left. Leaving on good terms would not be a problem. Perhaps one is active and found a slower moving group.
    Nothing wrong with moving onto one more suited.
    It's the ones that join then never BOTHER to show up. I'd like to know that in advance. Simply decline the application, or at least have the option to write to the person. (There may have been a reason for vanishing. Real life stuff.)




    One of my coops is begging to start a project but we are so advanced now, two vacancies, two more away for over a week. one I know is camping the other is MIA but was such a long time player I hate to boot.
    Meanwhile, finishing anything has proven to be impossible. The new replacement players we do have are such low levels they aren't much help even though they try.
    This really needs to be changed. Projects should reflect the over all level of all players combined. Not just how far the coop has gone.
  • mawmahmawmah Posts: 51
    edited 16.09.2014
    I agree, there should be some changes made,to the joining a co-op. Make it that you have to be a level 25 or 30 before you can join a co-op, by then that person is going to know if they want to keep playing & know what is going on or have a beginning co-op where they can learn the ropes, & then apply to a co-op. It is a side quest so they do so they can advance, but then they don't do anything or don't show up. Take that off as a side quest till they reach leave 25 or so. By then they & us will know if they are truly interested in the game & will stay & help.
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 16.09.2014
    Elloran wrote: »
    I think the problem is they don't know they are not ready for the responsibilities of a coop. How could they? They are level 6 and have been playing for only a short time. This IS a game of planning and patience, but there is no way to know that after only an hour or two of playing time. But if a farmer had to wait a few more levels to join a coop, I think they would have a much better grasp of the game.

    Happy Farming to you too :-)

    You have a point there, agreed! Level 6 is far to low level to give such a side task! It confuses everybody and makes things almost impossible for applicants as well as coops! And there should be at least somehow/somewhere some explanation available to applicants what joining a coop truly means.
  • feedthepig (US1)feedthepig (US1) Posts: 30
    edited 16.09.2014
    One other suggestion. Since it appears most experienced players agree with the idea of not being able to join a co-op before a certain level there is one other thing to consider. It might be best that no player can start their own co-op before having belonged to a co-op. I realize when the game began that would have been impossible to do but we are way past the point now. There would hardly be a team now that doesn't have at least one player who didn't come from a team that had no idea what they were doing. I have helped numerous players who were on the verge of quitting because they started on teams with low level players who didn't understand how a co-op works. If the game goes with changing the level requirement for being able to join a co-op then it might be best to change the level when you can start a co-op. Let's say level 30 to join and level 40 to start your own. While I and others have helped save good players from unhappy situations the question is how many didn't we help and save who just quit the game altogether?
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 16.09.2014
    Hear, hear feedthepig2 !! :thumbsup:
  • farmerjohn 22 (US1)farmerjohn 22 (US1) US1 Posts: 37,770
    edited 16.09.2014
    Just another thought on how to address the problem of players joining a coop only to complete the "Join a Cooperative" task. It's very annoying for a leader to have their time wasted by someone who joins and then leaves immediately. One way to prevent this would be that instead of rewarding a player with gold for joining a coop, they should be required to have to donate a small amount of gold for joining a coop. This gold would not go to the coop, however, because it could be abused by coops taking new members in just for the gold and then dumping them. Have it just disappear like donated crops in projects. If it cost a small amount of gold to join a coop, this would also discourage coop hopping of players removed for various reasons.
  • ArtmakerArtmaker Posts: 415
    edited 18.09.2014
    One other suggestion. Since it appears most experienced players agree with the idea of not being able to join a co-op before a certain level there is one other thing to consider. It might be best that no player can start their own co-op before having belonged to a co-op. I realize when the game began that would have been impossible to do but we are way past the point now. There would hardly be a team now that doesn't have at least one player who didn't come from a team that had no idea what they were doing. I have helped numerous players who were on the verge of quitting because they started on teams with low level players who didn't understand how a co-op works. If the game goes with changing the level requirement for being able to join a co-op then it might be best to change the level when you can start a co-op. Let's say level 30 to join and level 40 to start your own. While I and others have helped save good players from unhappy situations the question is how many didn't we help and save who just quit the game altogether?

    What about a "training coop." And this could be entirely game generated. Someone could click the join a training coop, then be presented with at least a few "projects" to help with. They would have to contribute to one research project. And only if they contribute enough, could they then look to join a real coop.

    This would take care of a bit of training, solve the problem of players just clicking to get the task done, and it would give people a clue what you are expected to do in a coop and what you gain in the way of research being in a coop.


    Fully realizing this would be a huge task for them to actually do. I can dream huh?
  • feedthepig (US1)feedthepig (US1) Posts: 30
    edited 18.09.2014
    I might be wrong but for some reason I thought there was a co-op training type program at one time early on. I know you could take some sort of (for lack of a better term) Farm Training Program/Class taught by an actual player who took it on themselves to help early players learn how to play and they may have given co-op instruction also. It's possible such a program still exists but I've not heard anyone talk about it in over a year or have heard of anyone who has taken that type of class in over a year. But I do remember at some time someone was teaching various aspects of the game to players who were interested.

    I'll take that back, it wasn't a program, it was an actual co-op a player started and they advertised themselves on Forum as a teaching co-op for new players. I don't know what happened to that co-op but there was such a co-op EARLY in the game.

    Edit by PINJO: merged posts, please use edit button
  • djgreeneyes (US1)djgreeneyes (US1) Posts: 1,766
    edited 18.09.2014
    Doesn't Larino still have her training coop?
  • Elloran (US1)Elloran (US1) Posts: 18
    edited 18.09.2014
    On the US server, the description for Larino's coop states "This co-op is closed".
  • Jiesta (NL1)Jiesta (NL1) Posts: 6,557
    edited 18.09.2014
    No - sorry to tell you that Larino stopped with her training coops for reasons of her own.
  • Pingo42Pingo42 Posts: 537
    edited 18.09.2014
    I'll take that back, it wasn't a program, it was an actual co-op a player started and they advertised themselves on Forum as a teaching co-op for new players. I don't know what happened to that co-op but there was such a co-op EARLY in the game.

    You can find information about the training co-ops in the sticky threads in the "Co-operatives Looking for Members" board.

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