Mismatched Missions - Unfair?

Dark Underworld (AU1)

there is 1 error with Marowit statement though the paragraph "So even if you are playing against level 200 players........." is wrong.  As if a low player comes last against 5 larger farms they will get same points as if they were solo as they get 0% bonus, which is why I said that the formula was a little wrong as it is SUPPOSE to be a couple of days ago.  Last if they do minimum should get at least 10%.  Also solo and mission where everyone else does 0 the person who harvested should get 100% not 0% why should they be punished for solo or because everyone else did not harvest.  I did a post on this full explanation a few days ago.

https://community.goodgamestudios.com/bigfarm/en/discussion/comment/4046793/#Comment_4046793

I could give you 10 different formulae to make this work properly as they have been telling us for ages and would not take me 2 weeks to work them out

ninjahuman (AU1)

As another option, they could take the amount you harvest yourself and give a bonus percentage, like I believe what happens at the moment, except they increase the percentage given to lower ranks and change it so that last place gets a bonus percentage as well. Then it is more about what the player can harvest in that time and the ranking bonus gives a small bonus as an incentive for players to try to stay ahead of one another. And players are not punished if no one else harvests anything in the mission or if they come in last place.

5-10 Man (AU1)

@ninjahuman (AU1)
I think I might lodge a complaint with GGS. "Somebody" just dumped on me in 3 missions. "Totally unfair" hehehe 

Dark Underworld (AU1)

lol @5-10 Man (AU1) let me guess who it was...lol

ninjahuman (AU1)

5-10 Man (AU1) said:

@ninjahuman (AU1)
I think I might lodge a complaint with GGS. "Somebody" just dumped on me in 3 missions. "Totally unfair" hehehe 

Yes, I saw you there. I was using the stack master to get some milk and egg missions and I was with you a few times. I hope that the rest of your missions will go well though.

5-10 Man (AU1)

Oh yeah, no problem, I got pay back on you...  But between you, me and the gatepost, I won't tell anyone how you shelved early on one of them.  

Still, whilst we can joke about, it is bloody difficult on the lower level players and it is high time GGS fixed up this problem and many more.

ninjahuman (AU1)

5-10 Man (AU1) said:

Oh yeah, no problem, I got pay back on you...  But between you, me and the gatepost, I won't tell anyone how you shelved early on one of them.  

Still, whilst we can joke about, it is bloody difficult on the lower level players and it is high time GGS fixed up this problem and many more.

Yes, I ran out of milk in the 3rd milk mission but well done for winning it.

Yes, that is true. At the moment there are many unfair missions like this one I recently finished:

5-10 Man (AU1)

They are the ones where you are "Damned if you do and damned if you don't". If you don't do it, one of the other higher levels would have plus there's a CC on so you need to go for points and you would have had fields full of special seeds so you need to offload. Any other time you could as we have discussed before, dropped a small portion to leave them a challenge and shelve.

Mind you, there is another element that has crept into play which isn't helping the situation. "Recycled" high level players who are using their game knowledge to participate at lower levels. No point in reporting them to GGS because they are using lots of Gold.

gizmo22 (AU1)

Your points are only valid if its non-gold user vs non-gold user. A level 39 with just 1 field can defeat a level 200 with 20 fields just by sitting there gold skipping that field. Gold and seaweed changes everything. You would assume a higher level player would have more purple stuff stored but are they willing to use it against a low level golder for crap prizes in a CC? I have enough seaweed feed hoarded to drown golders in 1 million + milk in a mission if I wanted to but there are better events out there to use it on.

If players in missions were matched purely on levels they wouldn't be full and then players would complain about that as well.We were all low level at some stage and have copped thrashings by players of a much higher level but for me personally it just motivated me to level up and grow my farm.

HaleyRunner (US1)

Byron Longford (AU1) said:

@Theresa1189 (US1) Not when we have been told over a long period of time that formula does one thing and it is not how it is working at all.  So therefore either they were lying to us for all that time or it was just an error.  I am leaning towards just an error.  If just an error why is it taking so long to correct and why no response for 2 weeks? @WascallyWabbit @PicklePaws

What I mean is that the higher level players know we're matched up by win loss record not levels.  So they purposefully lose a few missions so they get dropped down to compete with lower level players.  GGS know there are players out there who will pay just to say they beat someone 100+ levels higher.
It is a micro transaction game.

Exxy (INT1)

Ok Enough

When you post about mismatched missions , How about you post with all the important data , and not just with what you are trying to achieve

Please post 4 missions matching in a row
Also make sure to include your total Reputation score in the screenshot ( as it determines who you'll be matched against for the most part )

Exxy (INT1)

Those are my first 4 missions today ..

It seems very nicely matched to me

Dark Underworld (AU1)

@Exxy (INT1)  You really are not getting it. weather you are getting mismatched missions (as a lot of us shown is happening) or not.  It does not matter.  

THE FORMULA THAT GGS SAID WAS IN PLACE IS NOT WORKING AS WE HAVE BEEN TOLD FOR LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.  IF FORMULA WAS AS WE HAD BEEN TOLD IT WAS IT WOULD NOT MATTER IF MISSIONS WERE MISMATCHED OR NOT.

GGS SAID WHAT THE FORMULA IS SUPPOSE TO DO. IT IS NOT.  ALL WE WANT IS FORMULA TO DO AS GGS SAID IT IS SUPPOSE TO DO.

There are a couple of correction that should be made to their model, as I have posted before.  What I believe actually happened by ERROR or OVERLOOK is when they change the way players were selected for mission someone forgot to change the coding for NEW formula and is still and has always run on original formula to when we use to get solo mission, we had been told that it had been changed.  I will bet my last $$ on this is what happened.  @WascallyWabbit @PicklePaws

BUT AS PER EVERY OTHER QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN SENT TO DEVELOPERS AND BALANCER OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS NO REPLY, GGS IS HIDING OR JUST VERY RUDE

Terra1111 (US1)

When our coop is doing the CCs,  I hear constantly that level 30s are getting missions where the other people are 350+.  What the heck, how could any level 30 to even 100 go up against other players in their 300s and 400s?  If you wanted to have a more fun CC and have people actually want to do it the 3 times it runs a month now, then have it balanced where similar levels go up against each other.  I'm a level 170 farm and many times I've gotten into missions with Brat Pack and Oasis people and don't stand a chance.  The only thing I can think is that so few people are doing the CC now that it has to put anyone up against anyone.  Which if it is what is happening, that should tell BF something important....  we're sick of the imbalance and frequency of the CCs and most coops aren't participating.

Data King (US1)

It has been suggest before that they create 2 CC's. One for gold users, One for non gold users.
 Every player would have to choose in with regards the co op's choice of Gold - NoGold.
The only difference is that the non gold user selection would not allow the use of Gold or any sea weed items to be used during a mission. Every thing else would remain with the hope they can get the formula to work as it should giving all players a fairer experience during the CC.

gizmo22 (AU1)

I think just getting rid of the wheel and the shinkei event would bring in a lot more fairness to the CC's. A lot of players in certain coops aim for top positions in those side events for the millions of reputation points on offer. It doesnt make sense to have positions decided like that in an event that is supposed to be about actually "playing missions".

gizmo22 (AU1)

Adding to that something needs to be done about the rewards distribution within missions. Certain players are deliberately 0 posting when they are up against someone they cant beat in a mission. Thankfully when missions are full there will be players that post so 1st place gets maximum points but there are times with less people in a mission where the top ranked players rep points are halved because of the deliberate 0 postings. Its a really sad strategy. 

Southern (US1)

gizmo22 (AU1) said:

Adding to that something needs to be done about the rewards distribution within missions. Certain players are deliberately 0 posting when they are up against someone they cant beat in a mission. Thankfully when missions are full there will be players that post so 1st place gets maximum points but there are times with less people in a mission where the top ranked players rep points are halved because of the deliberate 0 postings. Its a really sad strategy. 

0 posting has no effect on the score.

gizmo22 (AU1)

Yes it does......if everyone except you has posted 0 your reputation point payout is halved at the end. 

gizmo22 (AU1)

Its quite common now with the shelving feature......a few players shelve, then the remaining (if u come across the players that are 0 posting as strategy) will post 0 and it ruins your score. 

ninjahuman (AU1)

gizmo22 (AU1) said:

Yes it does......if everyone except you has posted 0 your reputation point payout is halved at the end. 

I think that it must be even less than half. A while ago I got about 10.8k alfalfa in a mission and I got somewhere between 35% and 40% of the reputation points that I usually get from coming in 1st place with that amount.

Southern (US1)

gizmo22 (AU1) said:

Its quite common now with the shelving feature......a few players shelve, then the remaining (if u come across the players that are 0 posting as strategy) will post 0 and it ruins your score. 

I have 120+ datapoints that would disagree.  It doesn't matter how many people participate in the mission, the only thing that matters if what place you come in at the end and how much you harvest.

Example datapoints:

3 participants, 4, 5, or 6 - it doesn't matter, RP gained is the exact same (with some variation on whether I had bonuses running, as some data was captured when there was no CC running, so there was no bonus available other than the 10% one for starting a mission within 3 minutes of the previous mission).  As you can see from The "Base RP" column, there is no variation, regardless of participants or how much 1st place harvested (in those datapoints where I came in 2nd place). A non-participant is someone who either shelved, or just sat there and didn't harvest anything for 30 minutes.

Dark Underworld (AU1)

@Southern (US1) were any of your results with EVERY other player doing 0 harvest?  Actually that does not matter if just going on placing anyway as that is 0% for last.  This is where another problem lies.  solo or mission where everyone else does 0 is considered a loss and 0% bonus given, when it should be considered a win and 100% given  (as I have explained why on previous posts).  But your data was sent over a month ago and 0 reply from GGS on what is happening.

gizmo22 (AU1)

Like ninjas numbers I have noticed that sometimes my total reduces by even more than 50%.......for example I can get around 101k rep harvesting normally in a wildflower mission. With everyone 0 posting id be lucky to get 45k at times, sometimes even less. 

ninjahuman (AU1)

Southern (US1) said:

I have 120+ datapoints that would disagree.  It doesn't matter how many people participate in the mission, the only thing that matters if what place you come in at the end and how much you harvest.

Example datapoints:

3 participants, 4, 5, or 6 - it doesn't matter, RP gained is the exact same (with some variation on whether I had bonuses running, as some data was captured when there was no CC running, so there was no bonus available other than the 10% one for starting a mission within 3 minutes of the previous mission).  As you can see from The "Base RP" column, there is no variation, regardless of participants or how much 1st place harvested (in those datapoints where I came in 2nd place). A non-participant is someone who either shelved, or just sat there and didn't harvest anything for 30 minutes.

If no one harvests anything then 1st place will get way less than half the amount of reputation points that they would normally get.

gizmo22 (AU1) said:

Like ninjas numbers I have noticed that sometimes my total reduces by even more than 50%.......for example I can get around 101k rep harvesting normally in a wildflower mission. With everyone 0 posting id be lucky to get 45k at times, sometimes even less. 

Yes, it sucks when that happens. That is why I try when possible to harvest the minimum amount but sometimes it isn't really possible without gold or seaweed if you are trying to desperately get another mission with the stack master.

Southern (US1)

Byron Longford (AU1) said:

@Southern (US1) were any of your results with EVERY other player doing 0 harvest?  Actually that does not matter if just going on placing anyway as that is 0% for last.  This is where another problem lies.  solo or mission where everyone else does 0 is considered a loss and 0% bonus given, when it should be considered a win and 100% given  (as I have explained why on previous posts).  But your data was sent over a month ago and 0 reply from GGS on what is happening.

No, I've never been in a mission where all 5 other players scored 0 harvest.  The lowest I've seen personally is 3.

If that is happening, it's probably treating that mission like a solo mission (where you're the only person IN the mission), but I can't confirm that until I'm in a mission where that happens to me.

gizmo22 (AU1)

This is something GGS should address because I have connections in other coops where the person told me its a deliberate ploy to 0 post competitors to reduce their scores. As a coop leader I cannot imagine myself ever encouraging something so pathetic but its obviously a glitch in a rewards system and there are people out there exploiting this glitch. Im not overly competitive, I don't push event participation or have expectations of team mates in regards to rep point totals, donations etc but when you have your farm set up with specials or library books for high scores only to get deliberately 0 posted its frustrating. 

Dark Underworld (AU1)

on AU server it happens a LOT where 5 other harvest 0 @Southern (US1)  it is a tactic they use to bring down some player who do a lot, more so the case if they KNOW they are not going to win   This is why solo and missions where all others do 0 should be 100% not 0%.  EVERY other competition world wide considers a forfeit as a win to the one that turns up, not a loss as is done here.  But the formula as we have been told is not working as it suppose to anyway, so there are really 2 issues to be rectified

This tactic is a VERY good tactic, if enough players do it,  should not be able to. as it really is not fair on the player who does harvest.  I for 1 do a lot of 0 mission as I know how it will effect the player doing lots if the rest do as well.  I am not saying what I do is right but until GGS fixes it I will continue to do it and more will as well until the golders get sick of getting missions equivalent to solo..  I try to tell as many as I can, if you cant win do 0.  If the formula was working how it is suppose to this would not happen

I can imagine at Wimbledon tennis we have a odd number of players, so the player who draws the bye first up you are knocked out without even going on court and latter in tournament your opponent goes out injured and can not play, so sorry you lose as you opponent is not showing up,  or in football ( actually any sport), 1st teams against last, last know good chance not to win match so lets not show up then top team will also get a loss and may force them down the ladder.  This does not happen as solo as in the tennis, is considered a win and in football does not happen and forfeit is also considered win

gizmo22 (AU1)

Im not a golder though Byron, I dont even use seaweed in missions. So its a good tactic to mess up scores of players that have better farm setups because you can't beat them? If a player or team did that in an actual real life competition not only would they be roundly boooed and ridiculed, their reputation would be tainted forever.....just my two cents worth.

Dark Underworld (AU1)

but you can't do it in real life competition as their system considers it a win and should also here, system they have here encourages this but shouldn't