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Suggestion: long and short term shovels
Suggestion: in addition to the shovels for contribution in the 5 most recent projects, can we also have a more long-term shovel indicator, like how your performance was for, say, the last 20-50 projects you worked on?
The reason for this is that 5 projects is a very short time, and may not be indicative of your overall contribution to a project.
For example, if our co-op did the chicken/egg project, or popcorn, 5 times in a row, we would be done in a week and have our shovels. But if it turns out that I just had a bad week and couldn't be online, then my shovels would drop to 0-1. But this is not reflective at all of my contribution to the co-op.
If people are worried about beinig kicked on the basis of their performance, five projects really isn't that much to go on. And it would result in unfair kickings. So I'd be interested in more information about people's short and long term performances, like maybe how shovel-ful they were over the last 20 or 50 projects as well.
I think this would give a much better and reliable indicator of what a person's contribution to a co-op would be, rather than just how they performed in the last week.
Comments
That's why I said in my original post that IF people are worried about getting kicked out of their co-op on the basis of their shovels, a system that could demonstrate their long-term contribution to the co-op would be much more telling than just how they did in the past week. This is why I don't think the shovel system as it stands provides sufficient basis to kick anyone out of a co-op, because it is too short term and might unfairly disadvantage people who might just have a busy week in real life and can't get onto the game. But an indicator that tracks contribution over a longer period of time would give more consistent information about someone's behavior in a co-op.
That said, a much clearer explanation of how the shovel system works would be also appreciated for both long and short term contributions.
Really against this idea, even through more explanation.
That's why the suggestion is for long AND short term shovels.
Please stop quoting me. I am not the only one with a difference of opinion to your ideas.
This
I think that's a great idea Jay!
The leader and deputies know when a person joins their co-op & would know that they're not going to have as many shovels as someone who's been there longer. Its not rocket science! They can figure it out. I believe there are enough nice people involved with this game that are very understanding to someone's situation. I don't get your other post about what if people didn't start out as good members. All you have to do is collect for the project that is currently running. The shovels consider everyone's level. I don't know what that has to do with profit. Donating money is another tab.
You mentioned it in that post right there^^. I think they have explained the shovels as much as they're going to. If they're going to be a guide for someone's participation in the co-op then it would make sense to have long term and short term shovels to go by. Co-ops need to know who is pulling their weight and who's not. Its not fair for some to do all the work while others just hang out and get nice benefits. But anywho, I'm not going to waste my day debating with someone who doesn't want to be in a co-op anyway. I don't know why you care.
What "weight"? I don't get that. And the evaluation aspect has been explained ad-nauseam. What more do you want? The actual coding?
I could care less if we have shovels or not but if we're going to have them, they might as well generate useful data. If long term equals the last 50 projects, players with less than 50 under their belts will have a "Not enough data" note next to their name, just like when they sign up and the co-op has not yet completed 5 projects with them on board.
Thank you Santa Latten!
Yep, that's exactly it. And in the interim they can use the short-term system to get an idea of how they are doing relative to other people in the co-op. But after you've done 20, 50, 100 projects, using five projects as the basis of your overall performance just doesn't seem very accurate or proportional to what your real contributions are.
If someone has made a suggestion, i have Can have an opinion-- regardless whether anyone else likes it or not. I would hope that the Devs would take into account a wide range of views so that they can make an update that is adding something needed to the game & that no one is judged unfairly.
I don't think this needs to be added to the game though at this point--maybe like in a few years, but i don't think it is necessary at this point.
***the point i was making about the profit cycle was more about how so many people don't understand the house/decoration relationship--ESPECIALLY people just getting started in the game. They will have a black mark following them around for quite some time if it goes back to 50 challenges.
20 projects is not so lonng term we do that in 1 week lol
Yea I get that some people don't understand the happiness and running costs. If they are in a good co-op they will find nice members that are willing to give them some advice about the game. There's also plenty of useful info in the forum. Like Ama said, if they haven't completed 50 projects it will say no data yet.
Communication is the key.
These members would have the blot against their names that Monica is talking about if it was long term shovels but it's all relative: after 50 projects, if the problem lasted for 10 of them, the bad ones would be starting to be somewhat diluted by the good ones. After 100, it wouldn't even be worth a shovel. The Leader is aware of what happened in the beginning. If this is used as just one of many gauges to work out a person's worth to a co-op, then it won't make a spot of difference.
The trouble is, many normal members and even some deputies are not aware of personal circumstances that have caused problems with performance. As a result, resentment can build up for some of these other members, which is why I repeat that the shovels should only be visible to the Leader and person involved.
I CAN have an opinion even if I have not found a co-op I fit well with--they just are not my style. I have been in some VERY big high ranked co-ops--not willing to return to one anytime soon, especially if every move would be so closely scrutinized for such an extended period. I am certain that my activity level would have won me several of the golden shovel award thingees.
I just want to farm, relax and have fun. Let's return it back to that ok
Your welcome
I don't see how people can continue to pull negativity out of my posts in this thread. If changes are needed, the dev's need to consider a broader base of co-op's not just the top few.
Monica,
Believe it or not, this thread is not about you or your posts. I simply made a suggestion that I think will be beneficial to all co-ops. If you think it will not be useful to you, that's fine. But your objection has already been noted, and I have addressed it at least three separate times. Latten has already said he will bring the suggestion up for discussion, so I kindly ask you to stop beating your dead horse. Thanks.
What is kindly about asking a person to stop beating their dead horse? Its only dead in your opinion. Perhaps your great idea needs some modification, and Monica's ideas have a place in defining that modification.
Your suggestion is an interesting idea. I hope the folks in my co-op don't get too concerned. As a co-op leader, I'm not completely sure that I need to "use" the data, that may not sound clear. I'm trying to say that I don't send a message to the one-shovel folks...it may mean that they have other things in their day than a game...don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying this game! But not everyone is leaving their dishes until the project is done,
Sometimes we've had a project started and finished in a few hours that didn't remain open long enough for all the members to log-in...very exciting. I guess I've thought of the shovels as an indicator that at least everyone is giving the project a try, the newer members must be figuring out the co-op, and are able to grow a little corn because their wheat is finally done, meanwhile the rest of the team has nursery seeds and living at their computers.
Will be interesting to see what the GGS team brings in, tweaks, or eliminates. Sometimes the only way to gather data regarding the feasability of an idea is to make it active in the game and see what happens. There are so many suggestions from all the experience of the players, how they choose which ones to even discuss let alone create must be mind-boggling...coffee
Have a great day.
And I've already addressed them in terms of how they would fit in with my suggestion on the previous page, thanks for noticing.
Sandy, I agree that people should not get too concerned about shovels. But given what I've seen about the forums, it looks like some people are. But there are some little things we don't have a good idea of yet, like how the golden shovel is calculated (especially if there are others with the same number of shovels), what factors actually go into shovel calculation (given that hard numbers, effort, time online, level, strategy etc. are not commensurable) and how long it takes for those numbers to come up (since it says 5 projects, but that could range from a few days to several weeks, depending on what projects you do). I would be interested in seeing how this data gathered would provide us with a long-term picture of people's contribution to a co-op, and just how different that would be from the short-term shovels we have now.