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Forum Long Term Event - 1st round, Question 5

Latten (DE1)Latten (DE1) Posts: 6,246
edited 30.09.2013 in Contests & Awards
Here's the question: How do you achieve the cooperative project "The Chicken or the Egg"?


(The solution for yesterday's question: 510! And, again, the EN Forums showed the rest of the world how it's done, I think you're the only one with a large majority on the correct answer, guys ^^)

Cabbage special seeds: 300
Humus premium: +60%
Benny Buddler: +10%
Water tower: it is just in the question to create confusion, since its function cannot be applied to this case :)

The correct way to find out:

300 + (60% + 10%) = 510 cabbage

If you calculate either one of the percentages into the 330% WITH Benny, you will get the wrong answer - as always in the game (and in math), both percentages are applied at the same time.
Post edited by Latten (DE1) on
«1

Comments

  • Sixkiller2Sixkiller2 Posts: 9
    edited 27.09.2013
    Hmmm, have you censored all the replies or is everyone buying that logic? That logic maybe the game's logic but not in math...
    So, using your logic....Product A costs $100 +10% taxes and a discount of -10%, 100+(+10%-10%=0)= $100...? Not $99 ? Stock A ($100) goes up 10%, then another 10%= 100+(+10%+10%=20%)= $120 ? Or 121 ? In other words, +10% to the harvest, which is 480, is 528...or your logic 510....

    Confused....
  • edited 27.09.2013
    Will you be publishing weekly results/leaderboards or do we have to wait until after the 4 weeks to find out where people are?
  • KittenluvKittenluv Posts: 29
    edited 27.09.2013
    Oh thank goodness i got it right! I was seriously doubting my math. LOL
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 27.09.2013
    Sixkiller2 wrote: »
    Hmmm, have you censored all the replies or is everyone buying that logic? That logic maybe the game's logic but not in math...
    So, using your logic....Product A costs $100 +10% taxes and a discount of -10%, 100+(+10%-10%=0)= $100...? Not $99 ? Stock A ($100) goes up 10%, then another 10%= 100+(+10%+10%=20%)= $120 ? Or 121 ? In other words, +10% to the harvest, which is 480, is 528...or your logic 510....

    Confused....

    You calculate the 10% over the 300 yield and the 60% over the 300 yield. That will be 30 and 180. You add the 30 and 180 to the 300 and get 510. Logic?

    What you did was first calculate the 60% over 300 (makes 480) and then the 10% over the 480 (makes 528 ). Incorrect. Both percentages are calculated over the original yield and not over a yield + special percentage.
  • !!!_396723 (GB1)!!!_396723 (GB1) Posts: 253
    edited 27.09.2013
    Sixkiller2 wrote: »
    Hmmm, have you censored all the replies or is everyone buying that logic?

    No, I don't buy the logic either, but I figured it was not worth commenting on because that's the way it works in the game.

    Even though Benny's tool tip says you get +10% of the harvest - surely if you have 300 special cabbage and then premium humus it you have a total harvest of 480 which Benny should give you an extra 10% of. He's probably syphoning off the extra and selling it on the black market - or filling bubbles with it :)
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 27.09.2013
    Hodor3 wrote: »
    No, I don't buy the logic either, but I figured it was not worth commenting on because that's the way it works in the game.

    Even though Benny's tool tip says you get +10% of the harvest - surely if you have 300 special cabbage and then premium humus it you have a total harvest of 480 which Benny should give you an extra 10% of.

    Hodor, check my comment ;) You calculate both over the original yield. Not Benny over the yield with humus ;)
  • !!!_396723 (GB1)!!!_396723 (GB1) Posts: 253
    edited 27.09.2013
    Yes, I know how they work it - I'm just disagreeing with the logic.
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 27.09.2013
    Hodor3 wrote: »
    Yes, I know how they work it - I'm just disagreeing with the logic.

    Oh okie ^^ I thought you did not understand how they got to it. My bad :) I actually do not know whether I agree or disagree so I will leave that in the middle :)
  • Kakerullen (SKN1)Kakerullen (SKN1) Posts: 243
    edited 27.09.2013
    Hodor3 wrote: »
    He's probably syphoning off the extra and selling it on the black market - or filling bubbles with it :)

    Yes. I wonder were the rest of humusharvest go when you get Benny to help you. :-)
  • BarianBarian Posts: 109
    edited 27.09.2013
    How the Game works it out is the important thing here, and we have to take Latten's word for that.

    His statement about Mathematics is, however, incorrect.
    The Mathematically correct answer is 528.

    The difference comes about because of the difference between language and mathematical statements

    If I say "Two add three multiply by four" the answer is 20

    If I write "2+3x4" the answer is 14

    Because language works left to right, while in Maths you do multiplication before addition (unless there is a bracket of course)
  • Sixkiller2Sixkiller2 Posts: 9
    edited 27.09.2013
    Yes, I understand the game's logic now, it was just the comments from Latten (...in math...), that I dissagreed about.

    Edit. Just like Barian said.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 27.09.2013
    For as many times as the question for today has been answered, NO one should be getting this one wrong!
  • AnnaCeciliaAnnaCecilia Posts: 80
    edited 27.09.2013
    Hodor3 wrote: »
    Yes, I know how they work it - I'm just disagreeing with the logic.

    So do I. I think GGS are cheating us with their false logic! Why would the 10% be calculated from the base yield if Benny gives us 10% more harvest. Surely that should be 10% of the total yield? Not quite fair in my opinion...
  • PlayaLili4PlayaLili4 Posts: 4
    edited 27.09.2013
    I just did the task, and it was 510 :) no maths, no logic, no calculation...'keep calm and carry on' ;-)
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 27.09.2013
    GGS logic, they don't compound interest, clear and simple. Doesn't matter if you would, they don't.
  • WinnerMy_philWinnerMy_phil Posts: 17
    edited 28.09.2013
    hey todays ??? i think is a trick you need to really read it to under stand it i just hope i got it right
  • jess_d (US1)jess_d (US1) US1 Posts: 3,515
    edited 28.09.2013
    hey todays ??? i think is a trick you need to really read it to under stand it i just hope i got it right

    This is not really a trick question. They're asking what do you need to do in order to complete the Chicken or the Egg Project.
  • Myriad3Myriad3 Posts: 77
    edited 28.09.2013
    Barian wrote: »
    How the Game works it out is the important thing here, and we have to take Latten's word for that.

    His statement about Mathematics is, however, incorrect.
    The Mathematically correct answer is 528.

    In math, both options are correct. It just depends on the situation how something should be calculated. In games, it is common (and completely logical) to apply any boost to the base value of something. Game-logic wise there was even a third option: applying only the largest boost. It's all valid, it's all logical, the question is just, how does BF do it? And that's not really something you can find out within the game unless you try (costing gold), because they never mention base yield or anything of the sort. They could be clearer about that in-game, to avoid confusion - not just for this question, but for the game itself as well.
  • MalikBilal2MalikBilal2 Posts: 374
    edited 28.09.2013
    I think ggs shouldn't give us questions that only gold buyers can get right
  • AnnaCeciliaAnnaCecilia Posts: 80
    edited 28.09.2013
    Myriad3 wrote: »
    they never mention base yield or anything of the sort. They could be clearer about that in-game, to avoid confusion - not just for this question, but for the game itself as well.

    This! I think there are a few things the game should really be clearer about from the start, and this is one of them.
  • McFeisty (US1)McFeisty (US1) US1 Posts: 110
    edited 28.09.2013
    Fields question:
    Benny's already in place (hired), so his addition calculates when you plant the field, before you have put humus (but you don't actually receive that extra yield until it harvests, if I understand it correctly, kind of like the extra bags of seed from the Nursery).
    Humus is also calculated on the planted field yield, and since the humus doesn't 'know' anything about the extra yield that Benny will be giving you, it is not included in the calculation.

    It's not exactly 'math logic' - it is the order and manner in which the game calculates it. The coding for all of it must be nightmarish, we should be grateful these modifiers work as well as they do, not consider ourselves 'cheated' when we don't get more and more and MORE!
  • joanderjoander Posts: 5
    edited 29.09.2013
    hi friends.
    where can v find the 6th question
  • wappiewappie Posts: 4
    edited 29.09.2013
    When i visited the question page, i could not answer this question. Some how i went straid to the answer page.
    So no prize for me i guess ?

    I tried it yesterday (28.9) around 17.00 dutch time
    Grs Wappie
  • montuosmontuos Posts: 1,275
    edited 29.09.2013
    They only leave each day's poll open for 24 hours; after that you can't answer the question.

    You still have a chance at a prize, though. According to the original announcement, "Players don’t have to participate in all the rounds. But of course the more they participate, the better the chances to earn more points and consequently better rewards."
  • joanderjoander Posts: 5
    edited 29.09.2013
    hi friends.hoping u all r fine.
    can anyone help me to find the 6th question.
    did they publish the 6th question?
    have they published any question after the 5th question.
    5th question -- How do you achieve "The Chicken or the Egg"
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 29.09.2013
    joander wrote: »
    hi friends.hoping u all r fine.
    can anyone help me to find the 6th question.
    did they published the 6th question?
    have they published any question after the 5th question.
    5th question -- How do you achieve "The Chicken or the Egg"

    Hey joander,

    Staff doesn't work during weekends, so most probably the 5th question was the last one from the first round. The second round will start tomorrow, may be questions, may be something different!
  • BarianBarian Posts: 109
    edited 29.09.2013
    Myriad3 wrote: »
    In math, both options are correct. It just depends on the situation how something should be calculated.

    I'm sorry but you are wrong.

    It does NOT depend on the situation in Maths, there are clear rules that have to be followed.

    Usually quoted (In the UK) as BIDMAS

    Brakets Indices Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction
  • Myriad3Myriad3 Posts: 77
    edited 29.09.2013
    Barian wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you are wrong.

    It does NOT depend on the situation in Maths, there are clear rules that have to be followed.

    Usually quoted (In the UK) as BIDMAS

    Brakets Indices Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction

    That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about the calculation of percentages and how there are different situations involving percentages, requiring different calculations. So no, I'm not wrong, math DOES depend on situations (A LOT even). I'm not talking about the order of operations here. (I'm well aware of those, thank you.)
    The real art of math is translating a question or situation into the appropriate math terms. If you manage to do that right, the calculations are easy enough. But you do need all the info, which - again - we do not get in the game.

    In the case of this question we applied all modifications to the base yield, but when we're calculating something involving bank accounts and interest rates the base value doesn't matter much. Both involving percentages, but different situations.
    A percentage can have different meanings, and it's not always made clear what is meant. "60% of people said this, 12% does that." Does this mean 12% of the 60% that said 'this'? Or of the remaining 40% or maybe of the entire population? Math doesn't have rules on how to interpret these percentages. The context should tell you what they mean ("60% of people said this, 12% of these also do that").

    When we're talking about chances and statistics, you can do a lot of different things with the same set of numbers, getting completely different outcomes because the question or situation is just a bit different. Are the events independent? Do you want cumulative probabilities? It matters a lot.

    It all depends on the situation and the questions asked.
  • Larino (INT1)Larino (INT1) Posts: 4,572
    edited 29.09.2013
    Barian wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you are wrong.

    It does NOT depend on the situation in Maths, there are clear rules that have to be followed.

    Usually quoted (In the UK) as BIDMAS

    Brakets Indices Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction

    Latten posted it was 300+(60%+10%)=510. It involves brackets. So you first do 60%+10%=70%. Then 300+70%=510. Make sense? Still following the rules... This situation is CORRECT. :)

    IF! it would have been first 60% of the 300 and then 10% of that, it would have been 300+60%+10%=528. Which is NOT correct because there are brackets and it is both derived from 300 and not the one from 300 and the second from the result of that. So therefore this situation is INCORRECT. :)

    Both are mathematically correct, BUT! not both situations are applicable to this game. Only the 1st situation is applicable to the game.

    The discussion about whether that is like-able or not is a different one, but mathematically there is no incorrect calculation :)
  • joanderjoander Posts: 5
    edited 30.09.2013
    hi friends. hoping u all r fine.
    hey, has ggs stopped that long term event.
    did they publish the 6th question or have the done any other things other than questions.
This discussion has been closed.