BigFarm and Livestyles/religions

Gwendolen (US1)

Because I found out I was hijacking another good and interesting topic, I made a new one.
This may be a touchy subject, I am gonna try approaching it polite but clear. I hope others will too, so we can discuss this as grownups without moderators having to close it.

rhon3 wrote: »

Pigs have proven problematical for GGS in regard to many cultures and I know some discussion has taken place to try to alleviate the tension on some countries' servers. I don't know if anything has been implemented though, or even will be, but it has been discussed by GGS

I hope that will not lead to deleting the pigs completely. It ís after all just a game! I think they are way too cute and pretty and pink to slaughter and I want to keep my piggies!

Sometimes when I'm hungry and fancy meat, I'll just envision myself adding a slice of ham to the omelet, or ground meat in the lasagna. I have a vivid enough imagination for that

I think GGS does a good job in catering as many cultures, religions and ways of living as they can, so I'm a bit shocked to hear it's an actual problem on other servers. It's a gáme!! They're not real piggies, they're cute pink pixels. If your religion doesn't allow you pigs on your virtual farm: don't make them! If you want them for the poop or the task, just do it. Don't worry about it, they're not real pigs, just virtual.

On the US server there was a player called 'muslim farmer' for a long time. He didn't have pigs. We have 2 Jewish people in the coop, they do have pigs. They happily say: they're pixels, I don't have to eat them!
And that goes for every other person from every other religion.

I do sound pretty harsh in this, I think and I don't want to offend anybody, but I find it a very tough cookie if people want something changed because it doesn't fit in their beliefs. Nobody forces you to play Bigfarm, nobody forces you to make pigs.

Vegans might not find it nice that we produce eggs and milk. Some people might feel offended because we only have Dutch cows. We're all different, but we all try to enjoy the game!

bøffe (SKN1)

This is So true, Gwendolen

The one with "its only pixels" are the best

Please let this be a game

monica79538

good luck with keeping this thread open ;(

I am quite suprised so many things have been brought to GGS attention, yet they remain.

System

Oh wow Gwendolen. Don't read too much into my post. I've no idea how serious the discussion was, but I'm not expecting "pigs have proven problematical" and " relieving tension" to turn into deleting the pigs. Perhaps I should have used lighter and less portentous wording

Monica, I can't imagine why you say "good luck with keeping this thread open"

If discussion among farmers can help GGS find a way to "relieve tension" (how I wish I had phrased things differently ) it can only be welcomed

Gwendolen (US1)

I'm relieved to hear that Rhon! And don't worry, you just hit my pet peeve over the head, and then those things come out

monica79538

well i don't appreciate this thread being turned into a slam thread. Learn to respect others.

System

Slam thread? I was just saying I can't understand why you think a thread that may of use to GGS would be closed

monica79538

And what could possibly be derived from this thread that was discussed and closed in other threads? Isn't it also against the rules to make a new thread about a topic previously closed?

Ahh nevermind.

jaystarr2

Well, considering this discussion is now off-topic, isn't that sufficient grounds to close this topic? Not that I want it to be, but just saying. If you want this to stay open, staying on topic kinda helps.

Kat Nip (GB1)

Jaystarr, this is where I gently step in and remind everyone to keep to the thread topic.

Kat.

jaystarr2

Oops! Didn't mean to do your job for you Kat!

But yeah. I know some people take the game more seriously than others, so I suppose some people are bound to be more offended as a result. I guess I've already previously made my views clear on this, but I think it suffices to remind people that this IS a game, and we're PRETENDING to be farmers. We can even pretend to be non-vegetarian/vegan farmers! So I don't see the need to bring in real-life moral issues here. Basically, at the end of the day if you can't separate reality from in-game morality, then you've got bigger problems on your hands.

justme1232

Ok, here's my two cents. Hopefully it will be only two! I am one of the two in Gwen's co-op that says they are only pixels. I personally find it disrespectful to expect others to live according to individual lifestyles or religious preferences. I can respect a vegan for their lifestyle but let me have my kosher roast. I can respect a Muslim for praying several times a day, but I will pray according to MY beliefs in the way I believe. Therefore since in real life I don't want someone placing a baked ham in front of me and telling me I HAVE TO eat it; I will not tell others how they can play their game! Let people make their ham and bacon, I will even participate in making those and any missions involved. IT IS A GAME, ONLY PIXELS. There are half naked women on TV commercials, and pre-marital sex on almost all shows... so I don't have a tv; I don't go out and petition the government to ban all televisions. We all need to have the freedom to live our own beliefs, and that's only going to happen if we quit regulating everything so others HAVE to live according to ours. It's not insensitivity, it's common sense for getting along!

monica79538

These problems are not going to be solved on a farm game forum and have no place being discussed here. What ever happened to the forum being about the game? I am not holding my breath for the 'kumbaiya' moment--just not going to happen.
I don't think that any changes have been made through any of these threads, so until there is a move to change--it should not be discussed. I will probably get an infraction out of this--for expecting other people to show some respect. geez

jaystarr2

Monica,

I don't understand what you are getting at. In the game the pigs are just poop factories. What is it that you are objecting to?

monica79538

I am objecting to the discussion that some people don't even want pigs on their farm, yet they are being bullied AGAIN. And this after this type of thread closed several times! It is getting late here. I am tired. And this topic is very upsetting to me.

If I offended anyone, in any thread as soon as it is brought to my attention--i apologize profusely, and try to never say or do the offensive act again. Sadly, that is not the case with other people on the forum. Wrong on so many levels here. ;(

jaystarr2

Okay, gotcha. But I'm not sure how they are being bullied. I presume in the case of bullying you are made to do something that you don't want to do by a threat or other form of coercion. If a player does have a (real life) objection to pigs, they certainly have the option of not having pigs on their farm (as Gwen pointed out, MuslimFarmer did that when s/he decided not to have pigs on their farm and refused to do pig-related tasks because their personal convictions overrode their actions on the game).

But, as Just said, even though she has a real life aversion to pigs due to her personal beliefs, she doesn't treat the pigs in the game as actual, real pigs with the same moral status as pigs out there in the world. Likewise, in the real world I am not a farmer. I just pretend to be one on this game with my pretend chickens and cherry orchards and poop factories, and pretend-farmer-me doesn't necessarily have to have the same beliefs about pigs and cows and whatever as real-world-non-farmer-me does.

I think it's actually useful to have these discussions about ingame and real world moral beliefs. I don't think anyone is trying to use a farming game to motivate social change in the real world, but it is interesting and enlightening to see what beliefs we bring to the forum about the world, and what we leave at the door.

monica79538

well I am not going to cut/paste the posts, as it will only complicate this mess--I am hoping they will be edited by the original posters and the thread locked and not reopened until there is change. There has been no change still after several times this topic comes up & it always ends ugly and gets people very upset. There have even been suggestions to REPLACE pigs entirely with horses and GGS won't do it.

I too am a virtual farmer for the most part, but we do have chickens and I collect the eggs everyday. I would love to have a dairy cow, but we don't have enough grazing land. I know how to butcher an animal, but to actually do it--factors high on my 'ick scale'. And have I no reason to have that on a farm game.

jaystarr2

Technically speaking, we don't butcher any animals on the game, right? I thought that was a GGS policy or something. All we do is get pigs to make poop, and then we sell the pigs (okay, presumably to a butchery or abbatoir or something, but for all we know there's a magical piggy petting zoo somewhere where some benevolent pig lover is just buying up all the pigs produced on BigFarm). The point is, I think everyone is agreed on the "ick factor", which is why we don't actually slaughter the animals ingame.

I'm still not clear on how anyone is being bullied though....

monica79538

I also did a search on the ranking and Muslim Farmer is no longer playing with that name.

Considering that we are not supposed to be discussing such things as race, religion, ethnicity--is it proper to include them on the game, EVEN after it is brought to GGS attention that it is offensive?
getting a headache now

Irish30 (US1)

Gee...why do grown-ups have to take a cute pink piggy and some how make them into a topic where feelings are hurt and players feel they are being picked on or bullied. In school we have talks about not being a bully, so hope no one is doing that here, hard to think nice farmers would ever do that. But hey, I still believe in the Easter Bunny. Be safe and hold a puppy...it will make you smile

Gwendolen (US1)

Post number 5 was to Rhon, Monica, not to you.

And why can we not discuss things like race, religion or similar things here if they are apparently an issue in the game for some? I hoped it would be a good talk, with people giving their opinions about things, which partially is indeed happening.
And really, nobody forces you to read this thread or participate in it

ElizabethK

Gwen I agree with you on this topic and I don't get offended by different lifestyles. People need to just be tolerant.

I personally don't agree with vegan/vegetarian lifestyles, but if others choose to live that way it doesn't bother me. And if I can't have a little bacon on this farm or a nice juicy steak, like you said it is just a game.

People need to grow a skin, life is messy and filled with billions of unique individuals, learn to accept that.

Irish30 (US1)

Have to agree with the Ladies above...even kids know that there are many different ways to look at the same thing. We have many people from around the world in our classroom. And some how we all seem to get along, even if we disagree sometimes . Wish grown-ups could do the same. Be safe and respect each other

monica79538

such things have no place on the game or in the forum--it is against the rules established by GGS. Some people simply can't talk about things without being vulgar.

ElizabethK

But no one has been vulgar here.

And ignoring life doesn't change it.

System

Hi all,

I'm only going to say this once in this thread, but make sure it stays respectful. Telling someone to "put on your big boys pants and do it" is not respectful to someones belief. Yes, i understand that it is a game, that nobody is forced to play it and that it doesn't necessarily mean we should change it, but that doesn't mean anyone else is allowed to criticise someone for having an objection. We have changed elements in our games before for particular markets and will do so if we feel it is appropriate.

Regards,
Ethan

hust

In my opinion the game is going good without any meat dishes (I'm a meat eater). I won't mind making beef steak in the restaurant. But then my friends from India won't like it, some of them may feel offended. But not being able to make beef steak is a dissapointment, but not an offense. I can live with that. But making a vegan to make meat dishes, well some of them may find it offensive. Well you may say that then don't make meat dishes in the restaurant if you find it offensive. But say the meat dishes are huge earners and not being able to make them will put those players in disadvantage from those who will be able to make those, and that wouldn't be fair

You can say "ok this is not real meat, just a game"....well same logic applies...."this is just a game, so don't have meat dishes here and have your meat dishes in real at your home"....after all a meat eater also eats vegies, but a vegieterian don't eat meat.

ElizabethK

I beg to differ hust with the idea that vegan/vegetarianism can't be offensive to anyone. I do personally find the whole concept very offensive for many personal, political, religious and other various reasons. I have no desire to go into those many reasons here. However, I try very hard to be as accepting of everyone and their opinions as I can. Also, I don't let others viewpoints upset me. What may be right for one person is not right for another. My point is that every single thing is offensive to some one for whatever reasons. Therefore, as human beings we need to be tolerant of others and not to allow these things to upset us as long as they don't harm us or those we love in anyway.

I do agree with you however that GGS does a great job of trying to make the game as balanced as they can for everyone's viewpoints which can be very difficult for an international game.

And this is just a game, not life or death.

jess_d (US1)

I don't understand what everyone gets so upset about. I get that pigs may conflict with religion/culture but this is only a game. I like watching the little pigs play in the mud. I sell them to get money for other things and the dung helps out with fertilizer. I have never thought about where they go. Let's be real here....they don't go anywhere. The pigs are simply replaced with farm dollars. This is a farming game which includes animals. I agree with the other farmers.....if you don't want pigs don't have them. I like bacon & ham but I don't need it in the game. I don't really eat the food that I make on my farm. I vote to keep the pigs! Maybe some people just breed pigs and adopt them to loving families. No one should get upset over what someone post in the forum. There are too many "real life" issues to get stressed about a game. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never harm me" <--Does anyone remember that? Well have fun guys and good luck.

ElizabethK

jess_d wrote: »

I don't understand what everyone gets so upset about. I get that pigs may conflict with religion/culture but this is only a game. I like watching the little pigs play in the mud. I sell them to get money for other things and the dung helps out with fertilizer. I have never thought about where they go. Let's be real here....they don't go anywhere. The pigs are simply replaced with farm dollars. This is a farming game which includes animals. I agree with the other farmers.....if you don't want pigs don't have them. I like bacon & ham but I don't need it in the game. I don't really eat the food that I make on my farm. I vote to keep the pigs! Maybe some people just breed pigs and adopt them to loving families. No one should get upset over what someone post in the forum. There are too many "real life" issues to get stressed about a game. "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words can never harm me" <--Does anyone remember that? Well have fun guys and good luck.

Completely agree

I also remember "I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you." 8)

hust

Well I don't know any religion or way of life where it says just eat meat, no vegies for you....so to me not having meat can only be dislike or dissapointment but not an offense...but then again I take it, what do I know....maybe there is a way of life/religion where you just eat meat....lol