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4 fields or 5.

135

Comments

  • EricaJ (US1)EricaJ (US1) Posts: 202
    edited 19.06.2013
    A few comments about the financial analysis provided by hust...

    The example farm is a big one, with a lot more production capability than many players have. If we assume a smaller farm with, for example, half of those production facilities, then the operating costs resulting from a happiness drop are also much smaller. $1,000 * x% > $500 * x%.

    On page 2 of this thread, I showed the numbers from allowing OC to go from -97% to -76% in order to build a couple of pigsties and an apple orchard, and the net result was highly profitable for me.

    We all know that a farm's OC ratio applies to every production and processing facility on the place. The actual farmdollar cost depends on how many facilities we have.

    I also want to note that the drop you used in your calculation was from -100% to -30%. A smaller drop would show a profit rather than a loss.

    ===================================

    It is true that, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, a farm with -100% operating costs will be more profitable than a farm with any other operating cost ratio.

    But since this discussion is about opportunity cost, all other things are not equal.

    In any business, including running a Big Farm, there are times when taking on additional expenses will ultimately create higher profitability.

    It's great that GGS made it possible to limit costs to seed only - it adds an interesting dimension to the strategies we can employ in this game.

    And it's helpful to let people know that this option is available, and to encourage them to manage their operating costs with full awareness of the implications.

    What is not helpful is to lead people to believe that -100% operating costs is the ultimate everything panacea that must be absolutely observed at all times, in all situations, and all places. I don't mean to suggest that anyone has actually done this - but I have found that sometimes it is presented in ways that leave little room for players to recognize that pursuit of that goal may not be in their best interests at that particular time in the development of their farm(s).
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 19.06.2013
    Completely agree with you Erica, thanks for your clear and concise analysis. :)
  • Irish30 (US1)Irish30 (US1) Posts: 264
    edited 19.06.2013
    Gee...even tho I due spend gold on my farm and have a very good happiness...it seems that all the worry about getting the most out of every last dollars spent isn't very restful or reducing the stress I come here to enjoy. I have two account that I farm, other then the big account and find I enjoy just watching them grow slowly. Because in the end would you rather grow and have fun no matter how high or low you compare to other farmers or always be looking over your shoulder waiting to see if some one is going to take your spot? I'm just a dumb little kid, but slow is fine with me. Be safe and kind to each other...:) God bless
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 19.06.2013
    @ ElizabethK….ok point by point

    In my calculation there was not even a word about water tower and workshop, whether they are present or not have no impact in my calculation.

    Your another point do the math with only non-gold decoration, then it is applicable? What do you mean by that and why? Gold users aren’t players? To be fair 9 out of 10 players who have 100% joy will have gold decorations. When you do a statistics or math you take the average not the outlayers. If it still doesn’t satisfy you then ok, my calculation is and only for those who have endless gold, happy??

    Your 3rd point, to get in a house and an orchard you need to take away 3 blue tractors instead 5. Its not an error. Remember I make these calculation looking at someone else’s farm. So I don’t have the option of re-oranizing. Maybe you missed the point where I put in 2 Playgrounds (48 happiness each) for compensation. Also there is no guarantee your re-arranging will be successful.

    Your next point is having 8 fields is a waste, which is unrelated to what we are discussing, but still you can’t say it’s a waste. Having more fields give you advantage in missions, events and yes big advantage in co-op projects, specially if the co-op is in an advanced level.
    Your next point running silo non-stop will make enough fertilizer for the orchards. Let it run. I will sell my fertilizers. Actually I do, I sell 200 fertilizers for around $50,000. It gives me a message you are selling at a loss which is wrong because dung is free by product and due to 100% joy no running cost for silo.

    Your next point my 8 fields will overproduce crops and I have to sell them. What is wrong with that. Why do I have to stop growing corn when My barn is full of chicken feeds? I can sell my corn at a profit. People do eat corn, don’t they?
    For your next few comments, I just did that, I showed the additional cost for running a full farm is higher than the profit from the added orchard.

    @EricaJ…you are right, not always the happiness will swing from -100% to -30%. For specific farm adding orchard or other production facilities may result in profit. But not for the farm I analysed or most of the top 10 farms in our server. All they have is blue tractors. May be one or two signs or duck ponds here or there. There is no way I can fit my orchard and extra house without taking out blue tractors.

    To be clear to everyone, my analysis is more applicable for these full gold farms, which also I intended. My analysis was more response to Darconio’s remark that “giving away land for achieving 100% joy is dumb”, well it’s not always true, specially for the category of farms I analysed, that is full gold farms, which I call Sea of Blue.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 19.06.2013
    First off. Kudos ElizebethK and EricaJ for well thought out rebuttals and making what I say here unnecessary.

    I was not paying attention to this thread, but a quick look at it suggests you have 15 squares unaccounted for and left empty, and I am not sure using Gold bought tractors is being fair. Those tractors carry 70 happiness each but cost $5500 gold each. That's 27 500 Gold worth of tractors that would cost $20-$30 real money.

    7X7 = 49
    (3X6) X 2 = 36
    49+36= 85

    That's 15 squares that could be used. Most players can design their farms without that much wasted space. You are using a farm I cannot see because I am on a different server, but I am sure this person is smarter than to leave 15 spaces.

    Okay.. I am unsure this persons level, or how you arrived at the 30% figure after subtracting your 5 Golden Tractors with 70 happiness each. I will look at that and see if you addressed these things as I am not able to see this player on my server. I will be back and Edit.

    Edit: Okay. It also appears you did not include this persons level or how you arrived at -30%

    Now this part..
    Now you can argue why take out 5 Blue Tractors, why not 5 flowerbeds so the happiness don’t get down that much. This is a math and you make parallel assumptions, and also people who have 5 flowerbeds most likely haven’t got 100% joy.

    So you are now saying to run at -100% running costs might not be possible unless you spend vast amounts of gold? So is everyone suggesting -100% working for GGS?

    IS A -100% COST FARM EVEN POSSIBLE WITHOUT SPENDING TONS OF GOLD?

    you say..
    To be fair 9 out of 10 players who have 100% joy will have gold decorations.
    However the advice being offered is not to this Elite few. I can tell you honestly that I will never own a a blue tractor. I set a price limit for this game and have reached it. There is a good simulation game that has recently been released that I enjoy worth $60 which is a fair amount in my mind.

    I doubt many players here will spend hundreds of dollars on the game. A level 4 watertower on main farm is about the only expenditure I think is worthy, but even that is too much for many.

    Another thing..
    I cannot see this persons farm but are these tractors the lowest valued happiness items they have? It seems to me that if I were going to remove a few decorations to make room for an orchard I would be an idiot to remove the best decorations I have.

    You also assume the profit ends with selling the apples. This may be true however the point is maybe the space could be used for something else that contributes to recipes. Even a Chicken Coop that produces Dung can help keep a Almond Orchard running for some nice recipes. This point I won't argue much though as I am happy with profits from apples as an example.

    So. I see a lot of problems with that analysis and would at least like to know where you grabbed that -30% number. Did you make it up or is it from math of some sort?

    THE PERSON WHO STARTED THIS THREAD HAS SAID REPEATEDLY SHE ENJOYS THE GAME WITHOUT BUYING GOLD. Kudos to her btw.

    So using 5 golden tractors is not a valid scenario really is it.. I would be more impressed if you chose a normal farm with normal decorations for your analogy. On your uber farm you calculated (using *unknowns* to come up weith a -30% cost figure), with a farm wise loss of ONLY $7500 (after using Pure Gold Decorations and a questionable cost level).

    look at EricaJ from earlier post
    I tried chasing that golden -100% OC for awhile, but finally gave it up - and am doing much better as a result. I had been holding off on some building plans - waiting, always waiting to buy extra land for more decorations... or waiting to level up to unlock better decorations.

    I finally went ahead and built the two additional houses I'd need to construct 2 L3 pigsties and another L4 apple orchard. After all the construction dust settled, my OC had changed from -97% to -76%. Oh noes!

    So I calculated the actual operating costs for a typical day of operating my farm at -76% OC - and it comes out to $25,008.

    I also calculated the additional net profit from those 2 L3 pigsties and L4 apple orchard whose staffing created the drop in my OC - and it is $106,949.

    She built 2 houses, 2 Level 3 Pigsties, AND an Orchard and her happiness (-costs) only dropped from -97% to -76% although I am guessing she did not delete any Blue Tractors. I highly question the drop to -30% costs, however still think that Uber farm is a ridiculous example.

    Yes. Going for -100% costs is a ridiculous and silly thing to try. It is bad (terrible) advice.
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 19.06.2013
    Yes I realized I left 15 squares uncounted....I can fit in a +22 duck pond and take away 12 squares.....as I say I have only the visual Nothing I can do about the 3 squares....I still do not think it will give a major change in the happiness which I calculated -30%. Just to assist with your calculation, don't forget that a level 1 gold house is also bringing me -25 happiness. Also though I said 5 tractors, for this person it will be trailers which was available in The camping event, same size but 73 happiness compare to 70 of tractors. May people may not be familiar with trailer so i counted tractors. In reality this person has replaced all tractors with this trailers, so there is extra 15 happiness which may offset the 3 untouched squares.

    It is not about being fair to have only blue tractors, I just said this is only for a specific category of farms, full gold. This person, her level is 107. Keep editing I'm off to bed though
  • Stanky3Stanky3 Posts: 1
    edited 19.06.2013
    I have ran with 4 farms the entire time ive played and have run into zero issues! lvl 51.
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 19.06.2013
    Are players at us server poor or do they feel spending money here is not worth it? Don't you have full gold farms there like us? If you have, ask one of them to take 5 tractors in inventory and add a level 1 gold house, and then ask them to add two playgrounds you will get -30%.

    And yes the farm in question and the top 5-6 farms, except one or two signs or duck ponds here or there all are tractors. An please don't just have look, do the math in details as true maths should be done rather then generic comments.

    And stick to the point whether people will spend or not my point. You said "It is dumb to give away land for decoration"..."I'm correcting you by saying "Not always".....and pls stick to this single point...who started the thread, who buys gold or not, what is a good advise I'm not bothered with that
  • Ms.mcfarlandMs.mcfarland Posts: 1
    edited 19.06.2013
    Yes there is a lot of people playing on bigfarm right know. There is over 100 people that like this game and I do to but this is how much people like this game and play it. There is 1,900,432 people that like this game and there are 1,900,432 people that play this game.

    Nice story?


    Post edited by Kat Nip: Merged posts, please use the edit button
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 19.06.2013
    @ hust... to go point by point for your analysis of my points.


    1) We will just forget the water tower and workshop issue, even though the ability to have them can drastically change how your farm runs.

    2) Why I feel it is important to not look at someone with unlimited gold is primarily this discussion was started by someone who wanted input from a non gold spender on the possibility of a profitable high level farm. We all know that with unlimited resources a farm with perfect happiness is quite easy, but for those who don't spend gold we must weigh the opportunity cost of each decision much more carefully.

    3) Why you should only calculate the cost difference based on 3 tractors not 5 is that I am sure if the person whose farm you where looking at did want to add an orchard and level 1 house she would be able to rearrange her farm to maximize the space. I personally have 5 plans for my final farm all with different numbers of orchards/fields/stables and have been able to get 0 empty spaces on 4 of the 5 with mostly 5x5 decorations, and the 5th option has only 2 empty squares. So I think it would be feasible to make the calculation to add 1 orchard and 1 house while only removing 3 tractors.



    4)My point on the 8 fields is that you are weighing the cost to run all 8 against the profit of an extra orchard, where from my calculations and most peoples input (and also looking at high level players on my server where most only have 5 and spend gold) only 5 fields are really needed to keep the mill running and stables going to support the orchards. So at most only 5 fields should be used in your calculation of cost.


    Finally, I think you missed the main point of my comments. You are taking the worst case scenario of increased cost for the entire farm and comparing it to the profits from only 1 small apple orchard. Therefore your analysis is not balanced If you want this to be a more accurate comparison you must take a farm that you can first rearrange, if not in actuality then on paper or computer, to maximize the efficiency of the farm. Then you must compare entire cost and profit for a perfect happiness farm to the entire cost and profit if you add 1 orchard.

    But basically the ultimate goal is to maximize profit not happiness. If you loose a little happiness but gain profit this is better than aiming for perfect happiness. Erica stated it very well in post number 62.

    And to repeat, reiterate and restate, every farm is different and every situation is different, each person must decide what works best for them, but the main goal is maximum profit which does not necessarily mean maximum happiness. It is careless and near sighted for those who can and want to spend gold unlimitedly to give advice that only applies if the person can spend gold and thinking it applies to all. Caveat: I do value the opinion of all, gold spenders or not, and most peoples advice is very helpful and insightful, whether it applies directly to me or not.
  • Gwendolen (US1)Gwendolen (US1) Posts: 1,268
    edited 19.06.2013
    I try keeping my happiness somewhere between -85 and -100. Sorry Darc, if that makes you think less of me ;)

    I am a very moderate gold user, I think I used like 50 euro's in total on this, ofcourse always when the dollar exchange was extremely in my favor :)

    Monica, I think this is too much math as well, I try to do as little math as possible on this game and let others work it out.

    I do think that Darc hás a point that as lower level it is really hard and maybe even not worth it to strive for -100 happies, but the bigger you grow, and the better decorations you can make, I personally think it's worth it.
    Darc, I think you would get an even better profit if you'd have a bit better happiness! Opinion, not math!! Cause I suck at math and try to let y'all on the forum do it for me. I'd love to see what Patrickjohnson has to say about this, he is my math guru!
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 19.06.2013
    @ Gwendolen,

    You should strive for happiness and to cut costs, but it gets to the point where the space can be used better elsewhere as in EricaJ's analyses.

    Hust used a top level farm and subtracted 5 of the best decorations in the game to make his figures work, and still has not accounted for how he arrived at -30% costs. Maybe he just made that number up?

    Also .. On my last post I should also mention that the Lvl 1 house husk uses in his analogy is capable of being upgraded without taking more land, and could supply enough workers for another several orchards.

    @ Hust,
    Are players at us server poor or do they feel spending money here is not worth it?

    I can speak for myself and say I have played online games that I have spent a lot more money on such as Warcraft. I have spent close to $100 on this game, but ...
    do they feel spending money here is not worth it?

    I do not think this game is worth more than what I spent. So I guess the second part of your question. I have a level 4 water tower though.

    I am sure we have high level farms here as well, but did these people all buy gold or did they get free gold by working as Moderators and staff.

    I am curious what amount of money you think this game is worth?
    $500? $1000?

    I also have other gaming systems and other games. I do not think this game is worth as much as you do though.

    I still say it is dumb to strive for -100% costs. Your fudging numbers fools nobody.
  • aussiefarmgalaussiefarmgal Posts: 228
    edited 20.06.2013
    The amount of gold I buy I value by the entertainment value of the game, and considering the amount of time that I play. As this game is not tangible but virtual, the real money I pay has no real value in terms of what the game itself is worth, imho. I spend less than what many people spend on other forms of entertainment eg movies, partying, clubs, etc.
    If I did work it out $ per hour spent playing it would be costing me very little.
    But that's just me.
    I would never spend more than I could afford to spend.
  • pixie2me2pixie2me2 Posts: 83
    edited 20.06.2013
    oops posted this on the wrong thread.. so I'm just adding to the very interesting debate...
    Oh darn, I hate math, but I know one thing, with my gourmet farm and flower farm I only pay for the seeds, you see my happiness levels out my running costs to nil. This does not occur on main farm as yet, and am not sure if this is a bug in the system, (havent bothered to read up), but I can tell you this. I can make in 7 hours $730k in my flower shop alone, with no added costs, plus I get bonuses as well added onto this. I have a completed 100% gold farm, with completed 100% joy, and I guess, one of the reasons I am ranked NO. 1 on the Au server and also no. 1 in missions is not too many can beat me and I make money pretty easily too.

    So to all those that want to have specialised farms and destroy as u go.. I think thats great.. many in my co-op do that too. to those that want all gold farms - thats fantastic too - and for those that want 100% joy - dont be fooled it really seriously helps in the main money makers and that is in your flower farm and lesser in your gourmet farm -, but hey I know nothing - I'm just No. 1... *grins

    Just remember whether its 5 fields or 5 pigsties build to what u need in tasks/projects and missions - its really all up to you as an individual farmer
  • AstragekAstragek Posts: 495
    edited 20.06.2013
    pixie2me2 wrote: »
    oops posted this on the wrong thread.. so I'm just adding to the very interesting debate...
    Oh darn, I hate math, but I know one thing, with my gourmet farm and flower farm I only pay for the seeds, you see my happiness levels out my running costs to nil. This does not occur on main farm as yet, and am not sure if this is a bug in the system, (havent bothered to read up), but I can tell you this. I can make in 7 hours $730k in my flower shop alone, with no added costs, plus I get bonuses as well added onto this. I have a completed 100% gold farm, with completed 100% joy, and I guess, one of the reasons I am ranked NO. 1 on the Au server and also no. 1 in missions is not too many can beat me and I make money pretty easily too.

    So to all those that want to have specialised farms and destroy as u go.. I think thats great.. many in my co-op do that too. to those that want all gold farms - thats fantastic too - and for those that want 100% joy - dont be fooled it really seriously helps in the main money makers and that is in your flower farm and lesser in your gourmet farm -, but hey I know nothing - I'm just No. 1... *grins

    Just remember whether its 5 fields or 5 pigsties build to what u need in tasks/projects and missions - its really all up to you as an individual farmer

    She's not Kidding!
    She IS impossible to beat in missions.
    But I'll never stop trying, even though I'm not using gold for it :D
  • Kat Nip (GB1)Kat Nip (GB1) GB1 Posts: 3,796
    edited 20.06.2013
    pixie2me2 wrote: »
    Just remember whether its 5 fields or 5 pigsties build to what u need in tasks/projects and missions - its really all up to you as an individual farmer
    ... And that is really great advice pixie! :)
    Astragek wrote: »
    She's not Kidding!
    She IS impossible to beat in missions.
    But I'll never stop trying, even though I'm not using gold for it :D
    I love your perseverance in the face of obvious adversity! :D

    Kat. Kittie_by_otomosc.gif
  • pixie2me2pixie2me2 Posts: 83
    edited 20.06.2013
    OOh thanks Kat Nip and Astragek, but it really is all about how you want your farm to be. But in saying that, I love the maths of the game, and am at present experimenting what is the maximum amount of builds anyone can have on a farm, I'm mainly using my flower farm for this experiment - (for those au1 server farms who want a peak) because the more builds u have the better the chance to be proficient in projects'/tasks and missions and to make more $$$.

    In looking at the above I have a question for HUST ... if I take away 5 trailers, and put two playgrounds and build 1 level1 gold house, my happiness comes down to -27% from -100%.
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 20.06.2013
    @Pixie….yes Trailers have +73 happiness where as Tractors have +70 happiness….many people may not have seen a Trailer…that’s why I counted your Trailers as Tractors…so instead of -27% happiness I have -30%

    @ElizabethK…..for your 2nd point…..I have said this before…my analysis don’t apply to your farm or non-golders…the purpose of this analysis is to reply to Darconio “People who have endless gold, not going for -100% happiness is financially super dumb”…he/she said “Giving away land for decorations is dumb”…so my reply is not always…If you have read my post before I have accepted Ericaj’s analysis and said yes for many non-gold, lesser farms it would be profitable to have one or two more orchards rather than 100% joy. Agreed. And like Darconio I won’t say “Where do you come up with the numbers, have you made up”…Erica’s word is enough for me as I’m sure she calculated accurately. Maybe her analysis is more appropriate to your farm. So pls don’t come back to the same point, why I took a gold farm to analyse

    For your 3rd point….you can take away 3 tractors and build an orchard and a house…then good on you….we have tried (me and pixie) for an hour we can’t do it without taking out 5 Tractors. Also you have failed to notice two play grounds has been added…so 3 tractors is 3 x 70 =210…and 5 tractors is 5 x 70 = 350…and two playgrounds is 2 x 48 = 96…so the joy I took out is (350 – 96 )= 254…just 44 more then your 210…which wont have a huge impact.

    For your 4th point, regarding having 8 fields, as I said there are other aspect of the game beside just running your farm like missions and projects. Specially in co-op projects it is very useful to have more fields. I don’t know the trend of the co-ops in US but at AUS in most of the co-ops 3-4 people do the majority of the work. So we need to have more fields to take down projects like 83,000 cabbages, 27,000 wheat, 88,000 wildflowers etc. Maybe it is not applicable to you. Maybe having more then 5 fields is a waste for you, but not for everyone.

    Finally, I did not missed your main point. Maybe you missed mine that all I’m saying “For certain scenario it will be dumb to not go for 100% joy, and that is financially”…and for that yes I need to analyse the farms (full gold farms) that will prove it.

    @Darconio….so here you go, pixie confirmed how I got to -30%....you claimed I have made up numbers….well before you claim that you should have done the calculation….you can’t claim something you first need to calculate it…the more appropriate way would be “hust, I have taken out 5 tractors and added 2 playgrounds and a level 1 gold house, but it didn’t came down to -30% from -100%”….don’t claim anything if you haven’t done it.

    You say you can upgrade some house rather than building a new one…now where will that come from?...All house of Pixie is fully upgraded to 3rd level and she don’t have any free workers. So if she wants a new orchard she has to build a new house.

    Finally you said “I still say it is dumb to strive for -100% costs. Your fudging numbers fools nobody.”

    Let me correct you,
    “In certain scenario it is dumb to strive for -100% joy, but it is also dumb not to strive for -100% joy in certain scenario”

    If you have studied or know the basic principles of logic and reasoning, when you say “I still say it is dumb to strive for -100% costs”…you include everyone. If you say “All crows are black”…that means all crows in the world is black. Even if only one crow is found white, by the principle of inductive logic, your conclusion “All crows are black”..is invalid. The more appropriate will be “All crows in my area are black”. Therefore, “I still say it is dumb to strive for -100% costs”…is invalid as it doesn’t apply to full gold farms. The more appropriate will be “I still say it is dumb to strive for -100% costs, who has started this thread ”.

    Also a fact is that the developers made this game to make money out of it. So If you are using all gold and the best money can buy farm, they have made sure you get everything in exchange of your money, that is maximum profit with maximum happiness. No way a full gold farm with less then 100% joy can make more money then a full gold farm with 100% joy.

    Also my numbers don’t fools anybody. I have a Masters in Staistics from one of the Top 2 University of AUS, which is Australian National University, so I know how to calculate. It also fools nobody that you claim and say a lot of things without the math behind it.
  • pixie2me2pixie2me2 Posts: 83
    edited 20.06.2013
    Graciously said hust and thank you for all the hard work.. I hope that many forum readers have enjoyed this debate which started by a simple question of fields and extended to include joy, which is relative to the original question. Hust today has spent a number of hours asking me to take away and add to my farm so that his caluclations could be made in real time as well as theoretically based on figures as supplied by BigFarm.

    I guess none of us like being called dumb for having joy, nor I guess for those that have degrees, to be made feel worthless, I do note however that the most strident of all the voices in this debate has become silent.

    I am a great believer in good sportsmanship as I am in great debates, but I am also a believer in facts and figures. Thx hust for the effort you have gone to and for making someone like me not feel so dumb as to utilised joy.
  • AstragekAstragek Posts: 495
    edited 20.06.2013
    Both well said.
    I'm not a gold user, yes I use gold sometimes to support my cooperative or to upgrade gold houses or my watertower and such, but overall I don't use a lot. In the future, when my farms are all maxed out, I might swap my normal deco's for gold deco's, but for now I try to do it the hard way.

    I must say, even though I'm not maxed, my income isn't as high as yours, I am totally happy with my running cost of -92% on my main farm. In a few days, I'll have -100% when I swapped some lower decorations for higher ones.
    I haven't done the calculations, because I know it's worth it :D.
    I used to be surprised when starting my orchards and everything, about how much money I lost just starting it.
    Yes I got it back again after they finished, but still, now I hardly see my money go down at all, unless of course I spend millions on upgrades.

    Just saying, if you can do it, then do it!
    I don't know how things will work out when my main farm is maxed out, but I'm sure I'll find a way :D

    Thanks for your stories pixie and hust :D
  • pixie2me2pixie2me2 Posts: 83
    edited 20.06.2013
    Your welcome :):):)... drops a little pixie dust on her way....
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 20.06.2013
    you are welcome Astragek
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 20.06.2013
    [QUOTE=ElizabethK;798537And to repeat, reiterate and restate, every farm is different and every situation is different, each person must decide what works best for them, but the main goal is maximum profit which does not necessarily mean maximum happiness.[/QUOTE]

    @Pixie.... congratulations on being number one.

    @hust.... For gold and non gold alike it is not necessarily and always best to have perfect happiness, the concept of opportunity cost applies to everyone, it is just much easier for gold spenders to achieve perfect happiness with out losing opportunity cost.

    Regarding your calculations on what the running cost would be... you say 44 more happiness wouldn't make a difference, well I say it does.... I personally took away decorations until I only had -%26 running cost, I added back in only 38 more happiness (a picnic and a flowerbed) and it decreased my running cost to -%48. At lower total happiness each extra point of happiness makes a larger change as compared when you get to higher total happiness.

    Regarding 8 fields, Pixie can have 20 if she wants, my point was you did not compare the total cost for the entire farm against the total profit to the entire farm with both perfect happiness and less than perfect happiness, so your calculations are off even accepting your -%30 running cost.

    People can strive for whatever they want but to maximize profit perfect happiness is not always the best way, with or without gold, sometimes it is. Regarding gold spenders since space is not at the premium it is for non gold spenders it is more likely to increase profit by having perfect happiness.

    Basically, people should say that the best thing is to maximize your happiness, not say get perfect happiness.

    I don't think anyone is dumb. And I don't think this game is a waste of money for those who want to spend, there is entertainment value. I have spent a lot of money on entertainment value, I just don't choose to on this game.

    I do get your point that in some situations, perfect happiness is the best way to go, and I agree with this. Even though I feel your calculations are off, not your math just the premise you used. But it was being stated more that only perfect happiness is the way to go, which is not the case.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 20.06.2013
    @ Hust,
    you claimed I have made up numbers….well before you claim that you should have done the calculation

    So how do I do this calculation when you have not said even what level Pixie is. I am not on your server. Is she above level 10? It seems so. Above level 50? That also seems likely, but if you won't tell us the facts then how are we supposed to do any calculations?

    To be fair I asked you several posts ago for her level and the math, but you ignored my request.
    I had asked
    Did you make it up or is it from math of some sort?

    but you would not reply to it.


    I had previously written off using a top farm as a fair example while using Decorations worth 70 points each. I am sure Pixie has a lovely farm, but this was discussed before she came to the thread. You have also brought the happiness down so costs are -30 costs. You could not find any means to improve profits without so much installation?

    Even on the most streamlined Farm full of the most expensive gold items in the game and bringing costs all the way down to -30% costs, you were still only able to come up with a difference less than $8k.

    So you're saying your Theory works on the best all gold farm in the game IF that player is forced to remove 125 squares of the best decorations gold can buy.

    I am saying that seems like an unlikely scenario. I can buy into it a bit mainly because this farm is #1 and likely has been utilized so every worker is used and no square is wasted.

    Grats Pixie on having such a nice farm, but if you will look at normal (er) farms than your own, you will see Husk, SS, and Maxii have been giving bad advice to them.

    I'm trying to counter blanket statements like..
    If you're not operating at 100% happiness on all your farms, that's your #1 priority. The more happiness you have, the less everything costs. Once you're not wasting your money on unnecessary running costs, it should only be taking a few days to net a million dollars (depending on how often and how long you play).

    Husk claims the ONLY way to improve your farm is by dropping 125 squares of the best Gold decorations money can buy, and I think that does NOt compare to a likely situation.

    You yourself said,
    To be clear to everyone, my analysis is more applicable for these full gold farms
    and I will still say not most of the time. Possibly if you are forced to drop 5 of the best decorations in the game over 125 squares.

    Edit.. Yes I re-read posts and you have not given the level of Pixie or your math. Would I not need this to calculate as you say I should have? Maybe your statistical Analysis doesn't require statistics, but most math needs at least some information.
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 20.06.2013
    @ElizabethK…..”For gold and non gold alike it is not necessarily and always best to have perfect happiness, the concept of opportunity cost applies to everyone”. This is a wrong statement, the concept of opportunity cost do not apply to a full gold farm. Now what is a full gold farm? A full gold farm will have all gold houses and all highest gold decorations, that is tractors, and if little space left one or two little gold decs. I won’t call a farm with all duck pond a full gold farm. I will call it a semi gold farm. If you say opportunity cost applies to a full gold farm. Then please analyse a full gold farm in your server and show me the opportunity cost. I will open an account at us1 and check that for calculation. Untill you do it my calculation still stands that there is no opportunity cost for a full gold farm.

    Regarding whether adding 44 happiness will make a difference, well it will still cause a loss in my calculation, and also remember I had 27% extra money from the research for apples. If you want you can calculate and see, or if you want me to do it I can but I need a day.

    Regarding Pixie having 8 fields, it may decrease the overall profitability, I don’t argue on that, I just said we need it for the co-op project purposes. I have 12 chicken coops. Becoz we do a lot of egg project. Won’t it be profitable to have more orchards then so many coops. Yes it will, but I need those for projects. I never said 8 fields is the way to go
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 20.06.2013
    @Darconio....Pixies farm is not an unlikely scenario, we have atleast 7 farms in the top 10 at au1 server....

    Regarding that you don't know what level pixie is....you then did not read my calculation clearly....I described the farm there saying fully developed farm, which means all the land have been bought and the farm has been fully built...it doesnt matter whether her level is 100 or 200...a full developed farm is a full developed farm. Also it is not hard to see the drop from 100 to 30. You know so many things about happiness, the you should know you need to have ( Decorations - Houses) = around 313 to have a -100% costs. You take out 254 worth of decorations you have around -30%, you don't need to have a look at the farm for that.

    Regarding giving people advise, check my first post here, the only advise I gave to Elizabeth is go for 5 fields. I said at lower level if possible and can go for a -100% happiness, they should go for it. It was a generic comment to everyone and who ever plays this game knows to have 100% joy, you need to have gold. If you have thought It was for everyone, then my mistake, 1000 appologies, I should have if you are building a full gold farm then go for -100% happiness. My mistake.
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 20.06.2013
    @ Hust... I am done. You keep grabbing on to inconsequential things and missing the point. Fine, I will agree, everyone must spend unlimited gold and get perfect happiness, that is the only way to farm and to make profit. Without perfect happiness you can not possibly make a profit.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 20.06.2013
    you need to have gold. If you have thought It was for everyone, then my mistake, 1000 appologies, I should have if you are building a full gold farm then go for -100% happiness. My mistake.

    Apology accepted.

    Also,

    Kudos to ElizabethK for not buying ANY gold. There should be a seperate class of farm rankings for people like you, but it seems unlikely. Good luck though, as you have come a long way without.
  • AstragekAstragek Posts: 495
    edited 20.06.2013
    ElizabethK wrote: »
    @ Hust... I am done. You keep grabbing on to inconsequential things and missing the point. Fine, I will agree, everyone must spend unlimited gold and get perfect happiness, that is the only way to farm and to make profit. Without perfect happiness you can not possibly make a profit.

    GGS will love that :p
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 20.06.2013
    Yes they would astragek. lol

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