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4 fields or 5.

245

Comments

  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    I am trying to correct bad math by some here giving bad advice. If they are insulted by it they should not offer advice that is not mathematically correct.

    Anyone who does not like their opinion questioned or being called out should not be writing (bad advice) in a public Forum.

    I have received more insults than I have given. If I say something is bad advice because it is mathematically wrong then that should not be considered an insult. They were wrong.

    I agree with many in this Thread, and this topic is partially carried over from the Farm without gold thread where a group of people (bad at math) were advocating the same -100% cost idea.

    It is bad advice there. It is bad advice here. It is wrong.

    This is not an opinion. It is clear math.

    Edit: OHhhhhh. I see. You are both in the same Co-op. That explains the misdirected hostility.
    Yes. I hope Camii has enlightened you on how -100% production costs are so awesome. I just don't want her spreading that advice to others.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    Actually my math isn't bad.

    If I grow cabbage - it costs me $115 and will produce 56 cabbage.

    To purchase cabbage they are purchased at $45 per unit. So for you to gain 56 cabbage it will cost you $2520.

    Therefore for every 56 cabbage you are purchasing and I am growing - I am saving $2405.

    It doesn't make sense that you would spend an extra $2,405 over growing cabbage..

    I do apologise - I made a keying error and worked it out for 100,000 not 1 million - I have corrected my error in my post here.

    Yes - I do write that you give bad advice as in a business sense it is always best to reduce your costs of doing business to make a profit. That is where I base my point of view on.

    However, you make a point of saying that peoples views do not matter and only yours does.

    I have no problem being pulled up or having my view being told that someone does not like my opinion.

    You do it in a way which is rude and outright disrespectful - without reading the thread correctly.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    darconio2 wrote: »
    Yes. I hope Camii has enlightened you on how -100% production costs are so awesome. I just don't want her spreading that advice to others.
    I give my advice and those that want to take it - take it and those who don't - don't

    BTW it's his advice not her..
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ Camii893,
    I do apologise - I made a keying error and worked it out for 100,000 not 1 million - I have corrected my error in my post here.

    What does 100 000 even have to do with the calculations you are showing me. If I can make more than a million in several weeks I also can beat $100 000.

    I'm sure you have a point in there somewhere, but it alludes me. Is there someone who you can ask?
    You do it in a way which is rude and outright disrespectful

    I might've noticed that if my head wasn't up my butt. I have been polite to you throughout. If you think being told you are wrong is insulting then you need thicker skin.

    As far as buying cabbage or not buying cabbage... There is no profit in selling cabbage at a lower price so what could possibly be another motivation? There is a few reasons, but I'll let you try to figure it out yourself.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    My point is. By purchasing cabbage - you are wasting money.

    I make a million dollars plus everyday.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    Yes. I also make a Million plus everyday (if I am active). More likely around $750k. But I am not even a lvl 50 yet.

    Still unsure what that has to do with your earlier math, but Guess that crashed and burned.

    Not going to guess why buying cabbage might be a good thing?
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    I'm not discussing this topic further with you in a completely unrelated thread.

    As I said - my advice was in relation to something said by ss02092 not anything to do with how many fields to have.

    In relation to having -%100 happiness and then making it -%200 happiness to help with a project.

    If I want to continue this discussion I will post in the corresponding thread.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ Camii893,

    Cool,

    But here is some math for the road.

    Whenever a person buys Wildflowers/cabbage (as you have also admitted doing). What else happens?

    Yes. They have their fields available to grow other crops. So not only can you FEED PIGS (this was answer to previous question), but the cost you suggested of $2405 would be offset by the values of the crops you are currently growing in that 45 minute time frame.

    If You had 19 corn X $6 (if you sold) X 7 or 8 = ?

    So your $2405 calculation is also off.

    This thread was about how to keep up to the mill.

    Anyways. Good luck.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    But that person doesn't want to sell crops... They want to grow them and use them in the mill.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ camii893,
    But that person doesn't want to sell crops... They want to grow them and use them in the mill.

    Yes. That's why I said "(if you sold)". Obviously the crop will be worth even more if we convert it to feed.

    The point was that you said it cost me $2405 to buy a crop of cabbage, but that is only assuming I will leave the field empty for the following 45 minutes. Anything I grow during that time is stuff I would not have been able to.

    I gained an empty field for 45 minutes from that purchase (because I no longer need to grow cabbage) which offsets the cost you quoted.

    I can try to explain it better if you need.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    From 1 field growing corn you will only make $1026 in that 45 minutes, and you spent $2405....
  • ss02092ss02092 Posts: 772
    edited 18.06.2013
    darconio2 wrote: »

    @ ss, (someone in other thread)
    so you can save 25k more a week in this situation. How many weeks will it take someone to buy a lake ($125k after selling it back to game), that they will now demolish to put up a Tea garden.

    5 weeks of savings .... for something that is now gone.... sigh.. so sad. Now someone letting happiness slide and holding off on lakes could save $125k on a lake and be more profitable by waiting 1 week for an event.
    Trying to convince anyone to get -100% on costs across the board is silly.
    see this link....

    darconio.. have you read that thread... that was asked by a much higher level palyer... if i remembr correct its by SirGeorge he is at level 56.... Just read that thread... what i answered there is relevant to that thread....Dont confuse with all the thread and come up with a single line that having -100% runnign cost is not necessary...

    At level 56, 125K is only less amount he can earn that in a day or two..


    Do check your answer, if its relevant to the thread or not... Just because you have are not willing to have -100% running cost when some one is helping others and suggest to get that doesnt be bad...
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 18.06.2013
    Yeah I won't buy my cabbages...the only time I will buy cabbages is when I'm playing a sell cabbage mission or begin production of pig feed mission...becoz then I'm saving my golds a bit

    Regarding 100% joy...yes it is hard to achieve at a lower level but not impossible....as it gives you huge benefits as you are only paying for the seeds only...only those who have achieved knows....whether someone will go for a 100% joy is however their personal choice....but if you ask me I will say go for it

    Keeping to the topic....I'll say yes 5 fields...and thats just my opinion
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 18.06.2013
    camii893 wrote: »
    Elizabeth - to let you know in advance there is a task that gives about 1,100 xp points for having 4 level 5 cowsheds... Just something to think about :) ?

    Thanks for the info, I am not looking forward to that, I will probably build them to demolish them when the time comes.... That won't be fun for about a week or more. But being CDO (ocd in alphabetical order) it would drive me nuts not to complete it. Up to this point I have found most of the quests requiring buildings on the farm to be pretty helpful, oh well, something else to do when the time comes :)
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ SS,
    I am sure it is equally dumb for a high level to give away too much land for -100%. If you wish to make a thread about it however we can see who the smart players are.

    @ Hust,
    I don't know what this "only players who have achieved know" stuff comes from. This is the type of reason Math is taught in gradeschools in my country. If you wish to make mistakes to prove a point go ahead.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    Funny darconio how you ignore the fact that you said you would make enough money to cover the costs of buying cabbage growing corn but then I prove you wrong and you say nothing.

    Also, math is taught in Australian schools. Bigotry however isn't, I wonder if that's something you learnt from school or just developed?

    I can also assure you that hust (no he isn't in my cooperative) is university educated, and is highly eligible and skilled enough from his degree to comment on numbers and math.

    I'm sure he would probably take a lot of pleasure in running the statistics and numbers for the profitability on your farm versus one with -100% happiness.

    As am I university educated in business and could quite easily explain to you the decision making behind keeping your happiness at -100% and also your cost of manufacture down.

    However, I wont because then you will show a further more embarrassing display of fanaticism.
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 18.06.2013
    I would like to state that although I do agree with darconio, I do not agree with his negative attitude and rudeness.

    My math on this...

    One example I used is with apple orchards.
    Data (the numbers are rounded):
    1 level 3 orchard yields 390 apples which sells for 17,160
    Running costs with +- 0 happiness would be approximately 2,900
    To get near - %100 I am saying need 300 extra happiness
    This requires for gold spenders at least 4 5x5 tractors and for non gold spenders at least 8 5x5 lakes (I will go with the 4 tractors in this example)

    The math:
    4 tractors take up 100 squares / 2 apple orchards take 98 squares. So if I replace the tractors to add 2 orchards and increase my running costs to - %0 I can earn 17,000 - 3,000 or 14,000 each harvest which for me is 56,000 to 70,000 a day x 2 so by increasing my running costs I have earned myself an extra + $100,000 and even more for non gold spenders which I am. You could say that I would save $3,000 per harvest, but if there s no orchard 3,000 x 0 is 0 savings.

    My goal is to have the greatest number of apple orchards that my windmill can sustain with a level 1 water tower, because that is the greatest source of income from the main farm. I try and balance my happiness and have the highest happiness I can reasonably have, but happiness is not my main goal. Originally I was aiming to keep my total happiness above 50, now that I am able to buy better decorations my aim is above 100, which decreases my running costs by at least 60%.

    This is just an isolated calculation, but I feel it shows that although happiness is important and you should always keep it in the green, you need to look at the whole picture. Sometimes you must sacrifice happiness for a building that can bring in more money than you would ultimately save.

    For gold spenders the need for sacrifice it not as great, but when the best decoration is the lake it is very hard to get -%100 running costs.
  • ss02092ss02092 Posts: 772
    edited 18.06.2013
    Elizabeth,

    I have some doubts in your calutaion. The lakes doesnt reduce the running cost for only apple orchard... IT reduces the running cost for everything in the farm. Can you please do a bit more maths considering those also.

    In my coop there are couple of members who got bankrupt when the happiness was near by +5%... They earn quite a large amount these days after adding the decos and removing some production facilities...


    If i remember correctly the orchards needs workers which means they need houses which occupies some space... It seems you can run your apple orchards without any workers... can you telll us how to achieve so that it will be really ehlpful for other... (This is based on your area calulation for 2 apple orchards).
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    Elizabeth K,

    That might definitely be the case at the younger levels and I completely agree that the decoration to production ratio can be hard to really manage and see how you want to apply what you need.

    But, then we also need to take into account the cost of producing the fertilizer and then the increased cost of the seed and the cost of running the animal sheds..

    It is also hard to do a comparison as everyone is on different levels and have different ways and times of playing..

    In the end I guess it all comes down to preference and your own strategy in how you want to play the game :)
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 18.06.2013
    @darconio....if you think giving away land for 100% joy is dumb...remember its just your opinion.....that also means we who went for 100% joy...you are calling us dumb......which is a bit inappropriate.....who want a comparison...ok...It's almost 1.00 am here....I'll give you a detail comparison tommorow
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ SS and Cami

    This is an isolated calculation to show that perfect happiness is not always the top goal or even feasible for low level and non gold players. I am not advising to have no happiness, you should have the highest happiness possible without sacrificing profit. This will be different for every player, based on how they play. But each player has to determine the perfect balance for their individual farm. Additionally, I feel that advising players to have -%100 or perfect happiness is not good advice. The advice should be to balance your happiness with production and keep it as profitable as you can. Personally, I have 5 options planned for my final farm with total happiness ranging from 100 to 300 points. When I get to that point I will have to determine and balance, what I can sustain to get the highest profit, not necessarily the highest happiness.

    In conclusion I agree that happiness is important and understand the layers of complexity that GGS has put in place for this game. My calculation was to be used as an illustration not as set in concrete or to show the complete picture, that could take pages of complex calculations and comparisons. And yes Cami, everyone plays differently so will make different chooses, and GGS has done a great job of making it work well for everyone.

    Happy farming
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 18.06.2013
    @ Camii893,

    You said,
    From 1 field growing corn you will only make $1026 in that 45 minutes, and you spent $2405....

    Which I ignored because it seemed correct, or close enough. It was like you figured it out.
    Funny darconio how you ignore the fact that you said you would make enough money to cover the costs of buying cabbage growing corn but then I prove you wrong and you say nothing.

    Then you tell me the top statement was supposed to prove me wrong somehow.

    Try re-reading what I have said about that, and learning your error. You said it would cost someone doing that $2405 and I told you that is not correct because that would also free up a field for 45 minutes on which a crop could be grown to offset the cost.

    You say you are University educated in business. Maybe then you should be able to
    a) Tell me what offset means.
    here is a dictionary link for that word.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/offset
    b) and explain to me how I was wrong once you understand that word.

    Again I remind you this thread was meant to help someone keep up with crop rotations, and buying crops is something you have admitted to yet admonish. You say it is bad advice yet you do it. Makes little sense.

    Also... I have not advated ALWAYS buying Flowers/Cabbage. If you know the topic of this thread then you know the advice was meant to help them when they fall behind. I am not yet lvl 50, but I have 5 - lvl 5 fields and have no need to buy any crops.

    OFFSET...

    I may be a bit abrupt, but I have been polite. It is you who have been unpolite here. I have been told my advice is terrible twice in the same sentence, and that my head is in my butt. I merely keep telling you you are advising bad math. You refuse to admit you are wrong, and several times I have been done with this thread you say something like,
    Funny darconio how you ignore the fact that you said you would make enough money to cover the costs of buying cabbage growing corn but then I prove you wrong and you say nothing.

    Which you now know is a false statement.

    @ Hust,
    I think people should be exposed to the mathematics involved. I welcome any thread you open on this topic as it will save some from making bad choices. Yes. If you partake in the -100% costs belief then I think that is bad decisions.

    You say it is opinion, and I say it is Math.
  • camii893camii893 Posts: 251
    edited 18.06.2013
    darconio.

    Yes, it offsets it - but it doesn't fully offset the cost.. 42.66% in a percentage - which really isn't all that great.

    It is just plain stupid to be throwing money away.

    I am level 60 and have enough cash flow to occasionally splurge a little and not have to worry about growing wildflowers and clicking every two seconds.. I never said to not do it - just I don't feel that it should be a solution to an inefficiency problem.

    I said it would be stupid to waste money buying them when you can just grow them...

    As for your glorious offset - you will still be wasting $1,379... That's like saying that the increase in cost of living is offset by interest gained from a personal everyday bank account..

    It's hardly an offset that will be worth it in the long run... Especially if you do this across 4 fields - there is $5,516 right there just thrown away. While it may not really seem like much now but if someone of a lower level were to read through these threads and start doing that they would find them self bankrupt pretty quickly.

    It doesn't really seem like very good advice to me.

    I have read the thread and read ElizabethK's question - she wanted to know how many fields people would recommend her to have - I said 5.. Then I gave someone my opinion on happiness which was unrelated to the thread but felt I should interject that having +200% was a bad idea and you decided to come in here and claim I am giving bad advice. I never said HAVE -100% happiness.. I said that I always ALWAYS always have my happiness at -100% and make sure my cooperative members are aware of the benefits - I never said what I felt those benefits were or that I felt that it was the only way to run your farm.

    I really do feel though that throwing away money is probably the worst advice you can give - if you HAVE to resort to purchasing cabbage, wheat or corn to keep your mill running then your farm is not efficient. Something needs to be fixed or your game play may need to be altered.

    I actually admitted a keying error, which is the first and only time I have been wrong.
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 18.06.2013
    camii893 wrote: »
    I actually admitted a keying error, which is the first and only time I have been wrong.

    Camii, glad you can admit you are wrong (Ha-ha-ha) I do appreciate all of your input, thank you.
  • aussiefarmgalaussiefarmgal Posts: 228
    edited 19.06.2013
    Darconio, yes I am in the same coop as Camii. That has nothing to do with why I find your attitude to be offensive, insulting and patronising. You are personalising your comments and suggesting that others who do not agree with you are stupid or deficient in math. By all means share your opinion related to the thread but keep personal negative comments about other's intelligence out of it - it is objectionable. I happen to know for a fact that camii is highly intelligent.

    We all have our own opinions and style of playing, there is no single correct way to play your farms. We share our experiences and this helps others to decide what is the best choice for them to make in their own game.

    Personally, I do run my farms at -100% happiness, and this was following Camii's advice. Once I took his advice and put this strategy into place I quickly began noticing an increase in how much money my farm was making. I am level 44, I have currently 9.5 million cash and am making at least 1 million a day, if not more, even with upgrading and building. So I have no complaints at all. I am not the only one in this coop who has benefitted from Camii's advice.
  • darconio2darconio2 Posts: 151
    edited 19.06.2013
    @ Camii and companion,

    I had something typed out, but I am going to leave this.

    You claim I jumped on your -100% cost thing, but you have jumped on the buying cabbage and wildflower thing when you yourself have admitted to doing it.

    I have a cabbage recipe on my gourmet farm worth $27k. If I neglect my fields and do not have the cabbage I could
    a) buy the cabbage and get this $27k recipe going. (it takes 2-3 hours).
    b) run a recipe that gives a lot less.

    I am not going to try to explain the maths of it, but even though all my fields are level 5, I might still buy cabbage. My Storage is only 750, but that one recipe could fill my storage with cabbage.
    I am not even level 50 yet, but it seems I have better fields than you.
    and yes.. OFFSET...

    My costs are also offset by whatever else I grow even if it only reduces my costs by 35%.

    Nowhere did I advocate doing this all the time. There are other factors to consider. How much feed and fertilizer is one. Maybe they need eggs for the large payout pasta recipes so running corn is a priority. I'd say poo and fertilizer is also a legitimate currency in this game because if you run out and miss half a day of orchards it can cost a lot more than a few thousand dollars.

    This -100% thing was carried over from another thread so maybe it was your timing at giving the bad advice.

    I think this is silly. You have ADMITTED to buying wildflowers whenever you are desperate. If I jumped on that the same way you jump on the cabbage purchase I can match the whining point for point because it is the same thing.

    At least my advice was on topic, and can be practical under many situations.

    Some people just do not like to admit when they are wrong, and having someone from your co-op come here in support of your bad advice is just bad taste.
  • FarmerTess (AU1)FarmerTess (AU1) Posts: 2,393
    edited 19.06.2013
    Guys

    Lets all take a step back please. This is a discussion thread about the pros and cons of 4 or 5 fields. Please lets not get personal, we each have our opinions that may not agree with others opinions. It is becoming a bit heated in this thread, so I ask that each of you try and stay calm and not attack someone for having a different opinion to yourself. Thank you. :)
  • husthust Posts: 99
    edited 19.06.2013
    @Darconio…..Here is your math regarding not having a 100% joy, instead having another production facility.
    The farm in my example happens to be of pixie’s, who is the no 1 ranked player of au1 server and happens to be my co-op leader, and yes the farm is with 100% joy. Followings are her production facilities (all levelled up to their maximum) excluding the obvious, 1 mill, 1 composter and 1 silo.

    8 Apple Orchards
    2 Cherry Orchards
    8 Fields
    5 chicken Coops
    5 Cowsheds
    4 Pigsty

    Now let’s add an Apple Orchard (Level 5). To do that we need to take away 5 Blue Tractors. A house will straight replace a Blue Tractor, which will have the extra workers for the extra Apple Orchard. The Apple Orchard will take the space of the other 4 Blue Tractors (10 x 10).
    Since the Apple Orchard is 7 x7, so we have some space, therefore, let’s put Two Playground (6 x 3) in the empty spaces. After all this manipulation the happiness now is -30%.

    Ok so now I’m producing 475 extra apples from my new level 5 Apple orchard, which I can sell for $26,600 (27% extra due to research). Now since I no longer have 100% joy, I have occurred running cost which is $2,152, so my profit is (26,600 – 2,152) = $24,448
    Just to say my profit is lower than $24,448 as I have not take into account the cost of fertilizers. But I’m not adding that for simplicity and I can prove my point without that.
    Now we will assume a 0 hour when all my production facility will start and run for 3 hours which is the production time for apples. We are making this assumption because this is a continuous math. Now let’s calculate the additional cost I incur in 3 hours for not having -100% happiness but -30% happiness (Excluding the new Apple Orchard).

    Apples:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running 8 Apple Orchards.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is (2,152 x 8 ) = $17,216…………..(i)

    Cherries:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running 2 Cherry Orchards.
    For -30% Happiness, the cost (2 x 6,153)/4 = $3,077…………….(ii)
    Note: Yes cherry takes 12 hour to produce, but since this is a math, the running cost for cherry has been calculated for 3 hours dividing by 4.

    Silo:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running the silo.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is (6,321/3.16 hrs) x 3 hrs = $5,805…….(iii)
    Note: Silo produces 70 fertilizers in 3.16 hrs with a cost of $6,321 at -30% happiness

    Composter:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running the Composter.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is $518……….(iv)
    Note: Composter produces 2 humus in 3 hrs with a cost of $518 at -30% happiness

    Mill:
    Now we have 3 choices for the running the Mill for 3 hrs, Chicken feed, pig feed and Cow feed
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running the Mill.
    For -30% happiness, for chicken feed the cost is (180 x 7) = $1,260
    for pig feed the cost is (62 x 20) = $1,240……..(v)
    for cow feed the cost is (5,188/3.40 hrs) x 3 hrs = $4,245
    I will take the cost of pig feed as it is the lowest

    Chicken Coops:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running 5 Chicken Coops.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is (23 x 5) x 11 = $1,265…………(vi)
    Note: A chicken coop can be run 11 times in 3 hrs with $23 running cost for each at -30% happiness.

    Pigsty:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running 4 Pigsty.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is (104 x 4) x 2 = $832……..(vii)
    Note: A Pigsty can be run 2 times in 3 hrs with $104 running cost for each at -30% happiness.

    Cowshed:
    For -100% happiness, no cost for running 5 Cowsheds.
    For -30% happiness, the cost is {(803/7 hrs) x 3 hrs} x 5 = $1,720……..(viii)

    Fields:
    For the field calculation we will not take into account wildflowers roses, beans, rice etc.
    For -30% happiness,
    the additional seed costs for growing corn for 3 hrs for 8 fields is (3 x 8 ) x 36 = $864
    the additional seed costs for growing cabbages for 3 hrs for 8 fields is (7 x 8 ) x 4 = $224……(ix)
    the additional seed costs for growing corn for 3 hrs for 8 fields is {(360 x 8 )/6hrs} x 3hrs = $1,440
    I will take the cost of pig Cabbages as it is the lowest

    Now,
    (i) + (ii) +………+(ix) = $31,897

    At the beginning I showed that the extra Apple Orchard will give you a profit of $24,448.

    So your loss here is (31,897 – 24.448 ) = $7,449

    Now you can argue why take out 5 Blue Tractors, why not 5 flowerbeds so the happiness don’t get down that much. This is a math and you make parallel assumptions, and also people who have 5 flowerbeds most likely haven’t got 100% joy. Also remember when I calculated the selling price of apples I have included 27% extra price from research which all co-op may not have. You can argue that players need more production facilities for events or projects, but that is a different issue.
  • monica79538monica79538 Posts: 1,932
    edited 19.06.2013
    I am so throughly confused--I don't think i need to use a calculator to play this game with a ton of equations that make sense to only the people that produce them. Build your farm as you see fit and make it work for you.
  • ElizabethKElizabethK Posts: 519
    edited 19.06.2013
    @ hust..... he/she spends gold.... much easier to have everything and perfect happiness with gold. Do the math with only non gold decorations and without the water tower or workshop then it is applicable. Also in the first calculations I see errors. To add a house and an orchard only 3 blue tractors need to be taken away, you just have to reorganize your farm. And taking away 3 lakes would not increase running costs as dramatically as you calculated. Lets not even mention the 8 fields, which seems like a waste of space and workers, their choice. Also, MAJOR error in all the calculations, the farm running full out for 3 hours does not just make enough fertilizer or produce for the orchards. If they are running the 8 fields full out for 3 hours, a lot of that produce would need to be sold, so should not be included in profit/loss. You want to make a complete picture than calculate the total profit with the farm running full out for any given time frame 3 hours/ 8hrs/ ??? hrs with perfect happiness and compare that with a farm running with an added orchard (please only look at it as taking away 49 squares and 1 level 1 house, which is all that is required). That would give the complete picture of what is the best way. And for total profit that includes all profit, not just from the orchard. And try to do it with out gold being involved, then I will believe your calculations, numbers can be manipulated any way you want so lets compare apples to apples (pun intended). 8)

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