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Dockyard Strategy Calculator

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  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    I have been working on the calculator, and getting toward the end.  A question for anyone who has used the calculator previously:  has anyone selected the strategies "Income/Hour" or "Profit/Hour", chose a time range other than "Best", and found this useful.  What do you expect this to do for you?

    Right now, it looks like this feature will determine how long it would take to fish out ALL the fish from the pool at the rate (fish/total time) for one configured boat, and if that time is within the two hour window selected, that boat will be considered; the boat with the best income/hour or profit/hour (depending on choosen strategy) from this group will be the one shown as the recommended one.  For example, if your time range was 14 to 16 hours,  had a pool with 300 fish, and the recommended boat can bring back 100 fish in 5 hours, you would need to send the boat out 3 times in a row to match the recommendation.  But who fishes that way?  I would more likely send 3 of the same boats to the pool at once and be done with the pool in 5 hours, not 15.  And why limit it to a 2 hour window in this way?

    I feel like a better feature to have in the calculator is to say, hey, I have up to 5 hours available to play/pay attention to the game now, so what would be the best way to configure my level 6 skipjacks to have them fish within this time and make the most profit/hour (or income/hour)?  Maybe the boats will get back in 1 hour, maybe 3.5 hours, or maybe 5 hours, all is good to me.  But maybe I don't understand the old feature, so I'm looking for insights from past/existing users of the calculator.

    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    I did use the calculator when it 1st came out, but I never really used that feature.  I always chose pest profit per trip, regardless of time specifics

    Perhaps some players wanted all boats to be back at the dock about the same time, so they would choose time that way?  That's the only straw I have - I don't see how that instead of profit would be more beneficial, but everyone plays a bit differently ;)

    I do agree with your last paragraph, I think that would be a better feature
  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    Thanks Heather!

    I think the ones I would probably use the most will be:  profit/hour (best) and profit/trip.  If you only check into the game a couple of times a day, like is generally true for my wife who works, profit/trip looks appropriate.  If you can interact with the game for several hours in a row, then profit/hour makes more sense, and I expect you would make more money than with profit/trip.  The income/trip or income/hour might make more sense for the Fishing Hard Worker Event, as that would be a reflect of how many fish you bring back, and you don't care if you actually make money.

    Here is a ping out to some previous commentors on the calculator to see their opinions:  @ryune (INT1) @JVD (US1) @maxiroy (US1) @Jiesta (NL1) @dchen1 (US1) @tessa17 (US1) @SANDRAUser60 (US1) @Lylu (INT1) @archerbob (AU1) @Letty.liongamez (GB1) @ninjahuman (AU1) @Shay1968 (US1)

    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • ninjahuman (AU1)ninjahuman (AU1) AU1 Posts: 2,525
    Thanks Heather!

    I think the ones I would probably use the most will be:  profit/hour (best) and profit/trip.  If you only check into the game a couple of times a day, like is generally true for my wife who works, profit/trip looks appropriate.  If you can interact with the game for several hours in a row, then profit/hour makes more sense, and I expect you would make more money than with profit/trip.  The income/trip or income/hour might make more sense for the Fishing Hard Worker Event, as that would be a reflect of how many fish you bring back, and you don't care if you actually make money.

    Here is a ping out to some previous commentors on the calculator to see their opinions:  @ryune (INT1) @JVD (US1) @maxiroy (US1) @Jiesta (NL1) @dchen1 (US1) @tessa17 (US1) @SANDRAUser60 (US1) @Lylu (INT1) @archerbob (AU1) @Letty.liongamez (GB1) @ninjahuman (AU1) @Shay1968 (US1)
    I would say that sounds good. I would usually try to use the strategy that clears out the pool in the fastest amount of time with a few exceptions and frequently this involves using different crews to the same pool. But this strategy will also be useful for players to work out the profit in sending a specific crew out in a simple manner.
    ninjahuman @ au 1

    Guides: Pleasure Park
  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    edited 27.07.2022
    Here is my update to the Calculator.  I welcome your comments and please notify me of any errors you find.  Some of the improvements include:

            - This version matches the how the game currently works.  Based on comments for the previous version(s), it (they) worked correctly at the time, but it appears the game must have changed in several ways because the calculator was inaccurate when I compared it to today's game.  Among the items corrected:
                    1) Travel time
                    2) Fishing time
                    3) The affect of chum on fishing time.  Among these changes, the calculator accurately matches the behavior of the game, and does not use the percentages listed in the game.  The actual percentages are about half what is listed, and this has already been reported separately as a bug.
                    4) Chum costs.  This is now the price of the fish used to make the chum plus the production cost.
                    5) Costs for user selected equipment now includes cost of nonstandard equipment
            - ALL combinations of crew/equipment are considered for the optimal configuration.  The old version of the Calculator insisted on having all the slots filled.  The new Calculator will check all combinations,  even those leaving some or even all slots empty.  I often find that the Calculator reports the best choice is one with some empty slots.
            - Times are listed to the second.  Previously, this was to the minute.
            - (REMOVED) The strategy time range feature.  After reviewing how this feature worked and discussions with other players (see previous postings), it was deemed to have very little value.  Removing this feature made the calculator much faster.
            - (NEW) The strategy time limit feature.  This feature tries to force the calculator to find a combination that will return the boat within a user specified time limit.  Possibly useful for the FHWE.
            - (NEW) Help now provided with Calculator.  On a separate tab, players can see a small guide on how to run the calculator.
            - Programming improvements.   The code (behind the scenes) is much better organized and labelled and includes some programming notes to help anyone else that wants to make future changes/improvements.

    How to use the Calculator



    Steps

    A:  Select the location, type of fish and how many remain, and the boat you would like to use.  The number of fish can be left blank--the calculator will assume there are enough fish to fill any boat.
    B:  Select Strategy Type.  Can be Income/Trip, Profit/Trip, Income/Hour, and Profit/Hour.  For people who check into the game once or twice a day, Profit/Trip is a good choice.  If you run the game more often, Profit/Hour would get better results.  Income/Trip and Income/Hour are more reflective of how many fish the boat will retrieve and how fast, so these are better choices for the Fishing Hard Worker Event.
    --For any Strategy Type, you can restrict the Total Fishing Time by setting Use Time Limit to Y and entering the Maximum Total Hours.  Note this only affects the Optimal equipment.  This maximum can be a decimal number, so for 4 1/2 hours, enter 4.5.  If no boats can get back within this maximum time, a warning message will be shown, and the calculator will show Optimal equipment with unlimited time.  This could be useful for the Fishing Hard Worker Event, where you need the boats back before the timer runs out.
    C:  Select whether you want to see values based on the Calculator's recommended Optimal equipment, or the user selected equipment, as chosen in sections F and J.  This will affect the values shown in sections D, E, G, H, and I.
    F:  Enter equipment in the left column to view how your own choices will affect the results.  For comparison, the recommended Optimal equipment is shown on the right hand side.  Any warning or error messages show below apply to the user selected equipment.
    J:  Enter nonstandard equipment for your boat here.  This only affects the user selected equipment.

    Notes

    --The recommended Optimal equipment does not include any nonstandard equipment or chum.  Doing so was considered too complex for a basic spreadsheet, as the number of combinations to consider would be exponentially larger.
    --The calculator may find that not all (or even any) slots in the boat need to be filled for the Optimal equipment.
    --Fish prices are based on the prices if sold from the barn.  Further, they are an average value between the different fish types from the pool.  The calculator makes no effort to guess the value of your contracts, nor how many of each kind of fish are left in your pool, so your actual results probably will differ.
    --Chum costs are based on the barn value of the fish that would be used to make the chum.  In cases where there were multiple ways to make the same chum, the cheapest way was chosen.
    --It has been discovered that chum does not affect fishing speed as published.  Generally, chum are only half as effective as listed in the game.  The calculator matches what the game actually determines.
    --There is an slight error in the fishing time in the game.  Tests have show the game to be off up to about a minute, and fishing time can be affected by adding or removing equipment that should have no bearing on the time.  The calculator does not try to match this error, so you may see these differences.
    Post edited by nuke9104 (US1) on

    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Looking forward to taking a look at this, some excellent work ! Thanks for the effort.
  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    I found an error and have fixed it.  The calculator is updated above as version 3.0.1.

    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    edited 17.04.2022
    @nuke9104 (US1)
    I have a question/issue with your "optimal" column as it applies to the best income/hour and profit/hour

    (I'm using level 6 trawlers as a default for my examples and comments)

    It appears 'optimal' will calculate the # of Brigitte needed for the pool then makes the total of Brig & Roy  combined to = 12, instead of limiting the # of Roy based on the # of fish, or using a max of 6 Roy. This is not optimal because it can cause a loss instead of profit on a boat, which is not optimal

    Eg #1, let's say I have just 56 fish left to catch in pool #4 with oyster/clam/shrimp
    * optimal says to use 4 Brig & 8 Roy 
    Using more Roy will reduce the fishing time, in this case the total trip would only take 35m, but this boat would be  $-57,433 for the trip which I don't consider very "optimal"
    * Only need 1 Roy to catch up to 68 fish, so IMHO using 4 Brig & 1 Roy would catch all of the fish, take 2h14m, profit for trip = $47,567

    6 Roy catch up to 195 fish. Adding more Roy will not increase the # of fish caught when using only Brig & Roy, it will only decrease the time because it's the # of fish caught per hour, but that is not often worth the cost. 
    **Of course this depends on the time a player has, if they really need a boat to come back quicker & they don't care about the cost or loss (during the FHWE for example), this may be handy, I just don't think it's 'optimal' for every day use.
    Wouldn't it be more optimal for the # of Roy to be based on the # of fish in the pool, up t o a max of 6 Roy?
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    I just noticed something else.
    For Herring/Tuna, profit is calculated based on an equal amount of each fish.
    If there are 195 fish, profit is based on 97.5 of each fish (even though that is impossible)
    But there are always more herring than tuna in a pool. 
    I don't recall if it is always the same ratio of tuna to herring (or likewise in the other pools)
    but, well, maybe it's impossible to calculate for the diff ratios of fish

    If there are 400 fish and I catch only 195, I will get 98 of 1 and 97 of the other, but when it's the last boat I will get what is remaining and a lot more of 1 fish than the other - so on that boat, the profit will be way off

    I suppose there's just no way for the calculator can adjust for that, it just needs to be understood by the users 


  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    @Heather Norsk (US1) , thanks for your interest!

    The calculator looks at all 1800+ combinations and will find the one with the maximum profit/hour, income/hour, profit/trip, or income/trip (based on the chosen strategy) to find the optimal combination.  That is the algorithm.  It needs to know the boat (type and level), the pool, the type of fish in the pool, and the total fish left in the pool (though if there are more fish than what the boat would likely hold, this can be left blank).

    Income and profit are just like the standard business terms.  Thus income is only worried about how much money is made from selling the fish (from the barn prices), and ignores costs.  I figure the income strategies (income/hour or income/trip) are settings people will want to use during the FHWE, as they are directly related to the number of fish caught.  Most of the time, I expect people are interested in one of the profit strategies, which is what I believe you are looking for, based on your comments.  My copy of the calculator is usually set to profit/hour.

    Based on the information you provided, I would guess you have the calculator set to income/hour, and didn't tell the calculator the number of fish in the pool.  With unlimited fish (a blank value under "Total Quantity left") and a strategy of income/hour, the calculator does come up with 4 Brigitte and 8 Roy, but it thinks it will be catching 195 fish (see field in the upper right corner).  With the profit/hour strategy, the calculator comes up with 4 Brigitte and 7 Roy, again catching 195 fish.  If you set the "Total Quantity left" field to 56, the calculator again comes up with 4 Brigitte and 8 Roy for income/hour (again, not caring about costs), catching 56 fish; but the calculator finds 4 Brigitte and 1 Roy for profit/hour, also catching 56 fish.  This is the setting you are looking for.

    Below is a picture of the calculator with these settings circled in green.



    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    edited 18.04.2022
    as I commented, I did in fact put in the # of fish left, I hit income/hour 1st which showed 7 Roy, not 1 ... when I switched it to profit/hour there is a long delay before the #s switch to reflect the change, I apparently hadn't waited long enough for it to change last time but the # is now showing what you screen shot, not what I saw earlier


  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    @Heather Norsk (US1), I think I was responding to your comment as you were adding more information, so I didn't see this additional information until now.

    I have seen if you run the calculator using Google Sheets, it can take a few seconds (maybe around 5) to complete the calculations.  There is a bar that shows it calculating during this time.  If you are able to run it in Excel, it runs pretty much instantaneously (at least on my computer).

    You are correct that the calculator determines the prices as the average value between the different fish types, and this is mentioned in the Help.  When pool is full, the game pulls the same number of fish from each type, which is why the calculator is structured the way it is.  There will be an odd one when the fish caught are not evenly divisible between the types, as you pointed out.  You are also correct that there are more fish of one type in a pool than others, and the calculator can't guess about what is in a player's pools.  The calculator could be structured to have players enter the numbers of each fish type, but with more things to enter, the calculator becomes more intimidating for players to use.  I would rather keep it simpler for wider use.

    Likewise, the calculator can't guess which contracts you have at the market and their value, so the value of the fish caught are likely higher, and not reflected in the calculator.



    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    I agree, trying to mess with prices form contracts is way too variable. The price in the barn is at least a constant and is a minimum which makes it the best default figure to use in most cases, this one included.

    On this computer, I don't have excel access. I wish I did, I like it so much better. 
  • nuke9104 (US1)nuke9104 (US1) US1 Posts: 103
    I made a small correction to the Deep Sea Fishing Calculator, and the new version is 3.0.2. I changed the file in the earlier posting to the new version, so that continues to be the good version.

    If you are interested, the issue was that in some small number of cases, when using the Time Limit feature, the Recommended Optimal equipment might take longer than the user supplied time limit. This has been corrected.

    Thank you farmerjohn_22 (US1) for the beautiful picture!
  • Rennae (US1)Rennae (US1) US1 Posts: 21
    edited 23.11.2022
    THANK YOU! I checked out your genius creation and it proves that there is always someone out there with a better mouse trap. What I don't get is why people would want to put non-standard people or equipment on any ship. I have been told by some that they just toss whatever they have available on a boat and hope for the best. Why? I get that buying/paying crew can get expensive, but that extra stuff does nothing for the efficiency and it doesn't take up room in the barn. It is annoying that we can't sell the rods and other stuff we never use, but that would be a proposition for the game developers.
  • RosyStarlingRosyStarling Moderator, ModGreen Posts: 3,467
     I use the 'wrong' people that I have won to fine tune  and  get an exact number

    My trawlers, without freezers, hold 195 fish.  If I send them out for 2 hours 45 minutes that means I need 71. Using Roy I can have 65 or 75 .  Using wrong, but free, people I can get to 71 and not use a bought Roy

    For a small pool of say 105 I need 39.  With Roy I can have 35 or 45.  Using the wrong staff I can make 39




      
  • Uncle John (AU1)Uncle John (AU1) AU1 Posts: 10,170
     I use the 'wrong' people that I have won to fine tune  and  get an exact number

    My trawlers, without freezers, hold 195 fish.  If I send them out for 2 hours 45 minutes that means I need 71. Using Roy I can have 65 or 75 .  Using wrong, but free, people I can get to 71 and not use a bought Roy

    For a small pool of say 105 I need 39.  With Roy I can have 35 or 45.  Using the wrong staff I can make 39


    Me too Rosy. Johns are free (cos I win them) and a Lisa costs less than a Roy. 

       
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    Personally, I prefer to save those free ones and donate when we get an event where that's possible.

    I like to empty all pools in 1 trip, and I find the math is much easier to do if I am always using the same equipment. Having only 1 set of #s to deal with as far as how many fish each one catches, is easier on the brain & these days it takes me less than 2 min to load all boats to empty all pools, most of them every 2hr45m.

    Yes, there are different methods and some a little more profitable, but this way makes a really good profit as I can empty around 25 pools a day and is easy on the time since I only have to go to DSF every 2h45m and not spend a lot of time when I am there. It's nice we can all have different strategies & share them - so we can all decide which we like best - or to combine a few ideas to make one of our own :)
  • jules (US1)jules (US1) US1 Posts: 23
    This is not quite what I had in mind, though the fact this exists says a lot.

    what I wanted was a price chart of everything that shows how much the items in the game are worth

    for the fish dishes and the ingredients of the said fish dishes.

    Side note to this, I could be mistaken, but I think the payoff in price increases how much that they're worth as you level up.

    I can't remember correctly, but I think at one point my profit off eggs was 12 per egg and now there are 20 per egg. Which is strange. Again, I could be mistaken.

     Just for reference, I just made it to level 20. If I am correct and the prices change depending on what level you're on, or maybe how high the different sections of the game are leveled up, like for example, the chicken coop being level 2, instead of level1. I'm not entirely sure. Maybe they changed the game and didn't notify me.
  • Heather Norsk (US1)Heather Norsk (US1) US1 Posts: 6,930
    edited 01.12.2022
    @jules (US1)
    I don't believe better profit has anything to do with an increase in farm level

    it could be due to leveling up the stable that is producing those eggs, or better happiness on your farm, or the addition of a water tower or workshop, or purchasing a library book, just for some examples

    Every player's farm will have a different profit for any given item. Even your own farm, profit can fluctuate based on the items listed in the previous paragraph (upgrading a house, or adding decorations for example). Income for an item however, will always be stable, and those prices can be found in the barn. There, you can see the sale price and purchase price of any item. Sort of like a chart, built right into the game.

    Perhaps not an easy task, but my best suggestion is if you want a chart to show this information in more detail or to compare with other items, would be to create it for yourself.
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